I've been having OBE's and lucid dreams for about 30 years now. I have them frequently about once a week on average. Since the time of my first OBE I've studied and read many books on the subject and many many books on spirtuality. My view of the world has changed dramatically since my first OBE and I do believe in reincarnation and life after death. That being said, I have yet to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the OBE experience is more than a trick of the mind. Here are some of the experiments I've tried (and failed) to prove the "realness" of the experience:
1. placed a random card face up and viewed it while out of body: I could see the card but it constantly changed while I viewed it. In the end I never correctly identified the card. Experiment performed 4 times.
2. Placed a closed box ,with an unknown item inside, inside my room. I try to reach inside the box and identify the item. Never could. Experiment performed about 5 times.
3. Tried speaking to my wife while out of body. She never rememberd having had the conversation. Experiment performed maybe 3 times.
4. Tried identifying a written word left out by my wife...never could. Experiment performed 3 times.
Here are some things that make me think it might be "real":
1. I've felt my astral cord.
2. I've opened my real eyes while my arms were out of my body and I saw my astral hands.
If anyone can suggest an experiment they have done that has succeed in convincing them beyond a shadow of a doubt that this experience is more than an illusion/delusion of the mind I would like to hear about it. Thank you in advance.
have you tried something more solid? larger objects maybe. cards can be very tricky lol
find a place in google maps and go there explore it
and then look ad the google earth to compare
look for something you lost to see if you can locate it
people in different time zones and what were they doing while you project
ask your wife to hide a thing that you re very familiar with and try to find it.
Thank god, Finally someone who has projected for many years and is still objective to the experience. This is rare, thank you. May I suggest a neighbors house that you have never been into. Project into a room that you cannot possibly see from the outside. Ring the doorbell the next day with some cookies (kind of joking here) and ask to have a look at that room.
The way it was explained to me is that the astral is changed through thought. So lets say you projected to your childhood house. Although there may be new occupants living at the house, some of the furniture may be the same. The reason being you and your family hold that image in your mind. So if you try and identify something more stable like lets say a volcano, it will most likely have the same exact shape in real life.
Let me know how its goes!
Quote from: thedubdude on January 22, 2009, 01:31:46
1. placed a random card face up and viewed it while out of body: I could see the card but it constantly changed while I viewed it. In the end I never correctly identified the card. Experiment performed 4 times.
Playing cards are difficult because they're numerical. Try Tarot cards (which have some emotional and symbolic meanings) or post cards of places you've been to.
Quote from: tenshi_R on January 22, 2009, 02:50:48
have you tried something more solid? larger objects maybe. cards can be very tricky lol
find a place in google maps and go there explore it
and then look ad the google earth to compare
look for something you lost to see if you can locate it
people in different time zones and what were they doing while you project
ask your wife to hide a thing that you re very familiar with and try to find it.
No need to ask...that's what she does for a living .... LOL...thanks
Once I flew into my son's room to see what he was up to. I saw him sitting at the computer viewing what appeared to be wrestling videos from YouTube. Sometime after I returned to my body and woke up, I went into his room and asked him if he had been watching wrestling on YouTube. He said no, that he had been watching UFC on YouTube. He must have thought I meant WWE but all I saw were two men in a ring facing off each other. I could have very easily mistaken UFC for wrestling because to me it's about the same thing.
Also, just today, I flew down the stairs from my room, pass the living room, and into the kitchen and alerted my cat. He appeared frightened and more than likely ran up the stairs to try and hide in my room. Before I returned to my room and my body, I leaned over and opened the cabinet door where I store my pots and pans. After returning to my body and waking up, I opened my bedroom door and there stood my cat at my door wanting to come inside. I then went downstairs to see if I had indeed opened the cabinet door. The cabinet door with the pots and pans was not opened and I felt disheartened until I looked over and saw that the cabinet door next to the stove was standing opened! No one else could have opened it. I must have opened it, thinking that I had opened the other one instead. I also have another incident that proved I had not been dreaming or hallucinating the experience. I'll post it another time.
Anyway, it seems sometimes that when I'm in a light sleep state, my OOBE experiences are weak and slow. I can't hardly travel anywhere and get very confused about my surroundings. But when my OOBEs are strong, I can travel fast and very easily and see things much clearer. Also, when our surroundings seem to change or take a different form, I can't help but wonder if we're actually just seeing different dimensions of our surroundings. I've laid on my bed and heard voices that seem to be coming from other dimensions. I don't know, just a theory...
Quote from: UmmaGumma on January 23, 2009, 03:20:24
Also, just today, I flew down the stairs from my room, pass the living room, and into the kitchen and alerted my cat. He appeared frightened and more than likely ran up the stairs to try and hide in my room. Before I returned to my I felt disheartened until I looked over and saw that the cabinet door next to the stove was standing opened! No one else could have opened it. I must have opened it, thinking that I had opened the other one instead. I also have another incident that proved I had not been dreaming or hallucinating the experience. I'll post it another time.
That cant have been possible in your astral body to influence the physical world. The cat must had done it when he freaked or something or more than likely you left the door open before you went upstairs to OBE and forgot it was left open and when you saw it next after your experience you saw it open making you think you did it during your OBE. Its the only plauseable explanation.
Quote from: SkepticBoy on January 23, 2009, 07:07:18
That cant have been possible in your astral body to influence the physical world. The cat must had done it when he freaked or something or more than likely you left the door open before you went upstairs to OBE and forgot it was left open and when you saw it next after your experience you saw it open making you think you did it during your OBE. Its the only plauseable explanation.
If poltergeists are allowed to move stuff around, why can't we?
Well, modern poltergeist theory generally shows there's a focus person who seems to be the source of some sort of psychic pressure, so I'd think that to be able to move something while OBE more than will is needed.
Quote from: SkepticBoy on January 23, 2009, 07:07:18
That cant have been possible in your astral body to influence the physical world. The cat must had done it when he freaked or something or more than likely you left the door open before you went upstairs to OBE and forgot it was left open and when you saw it next after your experience you saw it open making you think you did it during your OBE. Its the only plauseable explanation.
Anything is possible...You can't explain this certain phenomenon with empirical thinking. It has been done MANY times before (ie. Robert Monroe pinching someone on the physical plane while he was out of body; other projectors witnessing physical events.) Its good to be a skeptic but these things are real.
Ok, I'll just shamelessly bump my thread again! :-)
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/validation_thread-t25607.0.html (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/validation_thread-t25607.0.html)
I used to always try to validate my experiences too. Sometimes it worked, but not always as I thought it might. Some details are changed, but the overall idea is right, etc.
For example, I had a shared dream with an old friend who shared this interest at the time. In my dream, I was showing him how I could send beams of light through my hands into the nearby trees. In his version, we were shining flashlights into the trees.
In an OOBE to meet up with a person I had just met, and knew very little about, I was first handed a newspaper that was in French. She was from Montreal, and I later found out had worked on a newspaper. Later I was shown a representation of a fish. She later told me her astrologic sign was Pisces. I could have ignored either one of those trips since they did not seem significant to me at the time.
One other time trying to go to another person I had met I completely went astray in my goal, and ended up in the dark. I did not know what had happened. Someone said, "Who is that?" Then, I heard my name. After a pause, they called again, adding "Is that you?" then, it got bright, and I ended up back in my body. I thought, Wow, what a waste of a good experience. The next day, I drove back to the temporary house I shared with co-workers on a summer job. My roommate came out to meet me at my truck- which was odd in itself. The guys first words to me when I turned off my truck were that there had been a ghost there last night. We had not discussed my interests about OOBEs prior to this. I had him describe what had happened. At a time that corresponded to my "trip", he had gotten up to get a drink of water, and seen something coming into the house from the kitchen area. He called out "who is that?" then said my name, and asked if it was me? When he got no response, he turned on the light, and it disappeared. He was so freaked out by it, he spent the rest of the night talking about it to his girlfriend.
Once I had that experience, I stopped thinking so much about having to validate for myself.
Hi ancient_one
Very interesting. If you've seen my validation thread you'll realise that I have had similar validations. It's curious, because for those of us who have had these experiences, there can be no doubt that ESP exists. It doesn't prove that life after death continues, or that we actually leave our bodies, but ESP certainly exists. And yet we see people like Derren Brown who are so convinced that there is no such thing as ESP. Derren Brown is a great performer and what he does looks just like ESP, but it isn't. And yet ESP does exist because what I experienced was no trick, by a professional illusionist. It couldn't have been anything other than ESP. For those of us who have had a personal ESP experience it's incontravertible. For those who don't want to believe no proof is enough. Until they experience it themselves.
Quote from: thedubdude on January 22, 2009, 01:31:46
I've been having OBE's and lucid dreams for about 30 years now. I have them frequently about once a week on average. Since the time of my first OBE I've studied and read many books on the subject and many many books on spirtuality. My view of the world has changed dramatically since my first OBE and I do believe in reincarnation and life after death. That being said, I have yet to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the OBE experience is more than a trick of the mind. Here are some of the experiments I've tried (and failed) to prove the "realness" of the experience:
1. placed a random card face up and viewed it while out of body: I could see the card but it constantly changed while I viewed it. In the end I never correctly identified the card. Experiment performed 4 times.
2. Placed a closed box ,with an unknown item inside, inside my room. I try to reach inside the box and identify the item. Never could. Experiment performed about 5 times.
3. Tried speaking to my wife while out of body. She never rememberd having had the conversation. Experiment performed maybe 3 times.
4. Tried identifying a written word left out by my wife...never could. Experiment performed 3 times.
Here are some things that make me think it might be "real":
1. I've felt my astral cord.
2. I've opened my real eyes while my arms were out of my body and I saw my astral hands.
If anyone can suggest an experiment they have done that has succeed in convincing them beyond a shadow of a doubt that this experience is more than an illusion/delusion of the mind I would like to hear about it. Thank you in advance.
So since I posted the above, I've been carrying out another experiment. In my room I have a shoe box which I've cut out a slit and added a night light to. I place a ESP type card (i.e. a card with a symbol on it...ex. triangle, star, square...etc) in the box. This card can be viewed by looking though the slit. I randomly choose the card to be viewed from a deck of about 30 cards. I do not look at the card when I place it in the box. I light the box every night before I go to bed and I attempt to view the card while I project. So far I've viewed the card about 6 times....but not once have I gotten it correct. In fact the image I see is not an image in my deck. For example, last night I viewed a flower in the box while in fact it was a half moon. I don't intend to give up this pursuit but I am disappointed by my results. A more sceptical person would say I've proved that Astral Projection is nothing but a mind game.
I think this ties in strongly with the concept of consensus reality.
We can't see things if we don't allow them to be, in our reality. However, there is a "window of opportunity" mentioned by Bruce Moen, wherein we are taken by surprise, and for that brief moment, something which conflicts with our reality is "allowed" to happen. Then we do damage control and find something rational to explain it.
I had writing appear on my computer screen when fully conscious and without me having typed it. Believe me, I found many rational explanations for it which are just as compelling as the supernatural one. Yet it happened.
I think we need to find ways to change our consensus reality so that more interesting things become possible. They are possible, we just always find a "rational" explanation for them.
I have verified what various people (mostly friends and family members) were doing on certain days, verified what was on the television in a different part of the house... I have done a lot of verifying experiments and it proved to me beyond a doubt it truly is real. This is not to say that there are not subjective elements for example you are one place, then forced to another location seemingly against your will. But this is to be expected when you think about it as logically as you can. When you are existing purely in a mental state, where perception, motion... all exists completely under mental control there are bound to be things that affect ones ability to do anything objective in terms of the physical world. I have found though that when I get out and I am in the same room as my physical self I can see my physical body. Of course being conceited and all expectation tells me I look damn good, but when out and observing myself I was really surprised at how ugly I really looked. One must place a great deal of attention to how objective or subjective one is being while out of the body though. For instance all this talk about guides...etc. In all my experiences I have never been accompanied by a guide..oversoul...higher self. I have on occassion ran into a disincarnate person who could see, hear, and talk to me but had I been subjective about it I would of automatically thought them to be my guide..etc.
This experience has the possibility to completely come under your mental control, so expectation is going to diddle with your experiences if it goes unchecked. Perhaps you expect to fail in your attempt... perhaps you expect numbers to shift beyond so you can't observe them. I have heard a lot of talk, and read a lot about not being able to read very well while out. However I gave it a try to read things and numbers, of buildings, signs, or whatever else was around in the locations I end up in, in truth I have had very little problems reading. The only problems I have really are teleporting/shifting to other locations. I have shifted to other places but not to the places I tried to go to. Also going through dry spells is a problem too. One month you are in the zone, the next you can only get out once every two weeks or so.. it happens.
Quote from: catstorm3 on June 02, 2009, 01:23:43
I had writing appear on my computer screen when fully conscious and without me having typed it. Believe me, I found many rational explanations for it which are just as compelling as the supernatural one. Yet it happened.
What do you mean by this? when you were having a conscious AP you looked at your computer and saw writing? what did it say? this does not sound like any sort of validation what was it just random AP crazyness?
Obviously it was while he/she was awake
here is a simple suggegstion i dont know if it has already been suggested in this thread
i know it has been suggested many times
DONT check the time when in the physical
astral project and check the time
and compare it to the physical when you get back
if you check the time before u project then you could be tricking the mind to belive you saw that time in the astral
but if you have never saw the physical time before you astral and when you get back it is the same.then there is no way you could of tricked your mind in to beliving it was that time since you never saw it
Quote from: catstorm3 on June 02, 2009, 01:23:43
I think this ties in strongly with the concept of consensus reality.
We can't see things if we don't allow them to be, in our reality. However, there is a "window of opportunity" mentioned by Bruce Moen, wherein we are taken by surprise, and for that brief moment, something which conflicts with our reality is "allowed" to happen. Then we do damage control and find something rational to explain it.
I had writing appear on my computer screen when fully conscious and without me having typed it. Believe me, I found many rational explanations for it which are just as compelling as the supernatural one. Yet it happened.
I think we need to find ways to change our consensus reality so that more interesting things become possible. They are possible, we just always find a "rational" explanation for them.
My world/spiritual view is very consistent with the existance of Astral Projection. I would be surprised if it turns out to actually be a mind game. I do believe the validations of others.....however, to date I have not been able to validate the experience myself.
You have really peaked my interest in your computer experience. Would you please share what information appeared on your computer screen? Thanks...
heres what i thought about this mind came stuff and have always thought.
if it doesnt make sense thats cause nothing i ever say makes very much sense coz am not good at describing what i think lmao
i imagine that on one hand we could be projecting our selfs to far ends of the universe and spiritual relams and so are looking out on the world.reassuring us that we will live after death.
but on they other i relaise we could as well just be looking inside our own demented minds and find torment by making our selfs hope we will live for ever in some sense.
when i think of this scenario i imaging this tiny world floating helplessy in an enormous ocean.making ripples of chaos as she takes her course/orbit by the very small inhabitants we have on this plabet.most of which are to self induldged and self seeking and greedy trying to find use out of our little oil and simillar fuels we have in our planet
and then when they die all this life would av been of waste coz none of what they lived for is transferable to where they are going .no oil no money.
then i think of they others who are trigger happy.and want eternal conflicts so they dont get bored and ask some real questions like what the hell are we on this earth for.and mabye they are just to scared to face the truth.
and lastly we have people like ourselves filled with hope and idealism who search for answers all of which could be nothing than mere distrotion of our minds
and for people like us if the latter theory is right then we are also fighting for a lost cause just like the people lost be greedy
but by all terms and no matter which theory is right u can neverthe less say we are all in wonderland looking through the looking glass lost by the tuth and tormented by the lies
imagine how alice felt
mabye the looking glass is metephorical for our perception and how we percieve and wonderland is the world we are looking at thru that glass and mabye little alice is a metaphor for all us people lost by the confusion and hypocisy with in this perception
just my silly thoughts lol
Hi,
I'm new to this AP thing. I just started trying about 2 weeks ago. I haven't intentionally done it yet, but I have come close. It will happen soon. I believe I am being "conditioned" for this. I attribute this to a dream I had last week in which I became lucid. Prior to becoming lucid, I believe I met my guides in the dream. I have three of them - 1 female and 2 males. Some really crazy stuff (but very fun at the same time) happened in that dream that led me to believe this. Anyway, my point is although I have yet to intentionally separate my consciousness, I absolutely believe in it. I think the reason I became interested in AP is because in Feb 2008, I somehow stumbled across accounts of near-death experiences on the Internet which I found to be fascinating. From there I discovered Edgar Cayce. After reading several books and contemplating the issue, I have an idea of why I think it might be very difficult, but not impossible to validate OBEs. If our consciousness operates on a different "frequency" when we are projecting, our perception of the physical cannot be altogether accurate. It would be like trying to listen to an FM radio station on an AM frequency. I've read a lot on this subject and it seems a common theme is that reality is a manifestation of consciousness. In the astral, we can create our own reality. There is no physical to impede our thoughts. Here in the physical, our thoughts are all stuck in the same frequency. We all perceive a pencil, for instance, the same. I think there is such a thing as group consciousness in the physical. We're all tuned to the same radio station. I think this can be overridden however. Many people theorize that our brains are "receptors" for our consciousness. Strangely, I have always believed this to be true, even before I ever became remotely interested in this spiritual stuff. In the physical, we are receptors of consciousness. In the astral, we are projecting our consciousness, but we can still receive input from the environment we are in. If we can project and receive consciousness in the astral, why can't we do both in the physical? I think the answer to that is if we receive together, we project together. If all, or most of, or maybe even some (I'm not sure) of humanity were to get together and believe that there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, there would be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I think we do this all of the time without knowing it. Long story short, in order to validate an OBE, I believe that a large number of people would have to accept as reality that a person could in fact astrally project and also accept as reality that it could be validated by whatever method the projector attempts. If it is to identify a hidden card, then it will be done, as long as it is accepted as reality in the physical world that the person can astrally project and identify a hidden card.
This is my first attempt to explain my thoughts on this subject. As with anything in the physical, it takes time, experience and hard work to reach a goal. Mine is to astrally project and begin to test this theory. I think this might be a good place to start. I propose that one person who is experienced in astral projection be chosen to project. As many of us as possible will know a secret item that the projector has to identify. I think that if we all believe that the projector will identify the item, he/she will actually be able to do it. I'm sure there is more to it than this, but I think it's worth trying to work out. Sound interesting to anyone?
Quote from: thedubdude on June 02, 2009, 00:53:47
I randomly choose the card to be viewed from a deck of about 30 cards. I do not look at the card when I place it in the box. I light the box every night before I go to bed and I attempt to view the card while I project. So far I've viewed the card about 6 times....but not once have I gotten it correct. In fact the image I see is not an image in my deck. For example, last night I viewed a flower in the box while in fact it was a half moon.
Has anyone considered that this is a perfectly natural consequence of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (and the observer effect) at work? (See quantum mechanics for the theory)
So the card's state is actually undetermined, until someone on the physical plane observes it. Maybe observation on the astral is unable to fulfill the contract of the observer effect.
So: try the experiment thus: Have someone ELSE observe the card, on the physical plane. Don't let them tell you. This should "lock in" the choice of card on the physical plane. Then observe on the astral and let us know the results.
Quote from: thedubdude on June 02, 2009, 11:45:19
You have really peaked my interest in your computer experience. Would you please share what information appeared on your computer screen? Thanks...
Sure, I'll open another thread. I hope it isn't off-topic though.
Quotelost by the tuth and tormented by the lies
Nicely said.
Hi catstorm3
I like this idea, that something has to be observed physically to "lock it in" (collapse the wave function etc). Until an object has been observed physically it exists in all possible states. Maybe observing something physical from the astral does not fulfill the criteria of physical observation, so that's why things constantly shift in the astral.
But... this means that we can never visit remote places like desert islands, or the oceans or the dark side of the moon, because these places have not been "observed" yet? Wouldn't that be a shame...?!
Quote from: catstorm3 on June 02, 2009, 23:37:33
Has anyone considered that this is a perfectly natural consequence of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (and the observer effect) at work? (See quantum mechanics for the theory)
So the card's state is actually undetermined, until someone on the physical plane observes it. Maybe observation on the astral is unable to fulfill the contract of the observer effect.
So: try the experiment thus: Have someone ELSE observe the card, on the physical plane. Don't let them tell you. This should "lock in" the choice of card on the physical plane. Then observe on the astral and let us know the results.
Excellent suggestion....I'll have my wife look at the card and not tell me....thanks.....
It's because physical reality is as real as a dream is (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/keys_to_reality_i_need_your_help-t29599.0.html).
In actuality the physical plane is the same thing as a ghost is.
Also, "don't blame the science - blame the practictioner" (sorry if I'm rude), but perhaps there is something else that is needed, some skill, something, in order to do verifications. I know you have been practicing for a LONG time, but it is just a suggestion - don't take it the wrong way.
Bruce Moen provides independent, cross the world validations on his site, where more than one person independently verifies details of retrievals (without correlating their notes)
I live away from my parents. I haven't had an AP yet. What I intend to do to verify is to project to my home and verify the colors of the bed-sheets in our bedrooms and then call and confirm. Let's see what happens. :-D
I see a lot of people suggesting validations are impossible/improbable under most circumstances. I completely disagree with that notion, as I've verified and verified things until it completely bored me and I was satisfied it was in fact a reality. However someone posting validations about their experiences is not going to solidify the fact that projection/obe is a reality, because after all if the validation seems too fantastic the person could be accused simply of lying.
The only way for validations to have any meaning is for you to be the one to validate your experience. Only then can someone completely understand and comprehend it is in fact real. Im not saying don't post your obe's obviously there is value in this, as it provides motivation to the would be projectors here. However you can expect if you post validations that this can not be taken at face value. So what Im saying in short is validations only have meaning to the validators =-)
Ok T.L you seem pretty confident in your ability to verify real items. Is it possible for you to verify something I lay out on top of my desk? we could arrange proper rules if your willing.
Would you be able to do this? could you simply will yourself to my house where ever you are, whether that be Australia or down the end of my road? (which is unlikey) pls give me a simple yes or no.
I'd be very interested if you could do this and please dont give me a reply such as "we dont have to prove it to you blah blah blah" just do it already!!!!! (lol) ty.
hehe its not provable when it should be...its weird. someones watching us :)
What? no I was asking T.L.
That was just a general posting, not related to your post to T.L.
Ok I have an idea.
Go to Google Images and type in something you never did before.
Then go to some random page like 8 but don't look at your screen.
Move your mouse cursor on that number, close your eyes and click.
Go to bed and project.
Look at your screen and what images are there.
Then come back to reality and check if it's the same.
I never projected ... but I'll try to prove it's real after I learn.
Another way is to go to some of those sites where it has links to pictures without thumbnails.
Click on one and look at it in the Astral.
There is something like that in Astral Voyage : http://www.astralvoyage.com/remote/try.html
It would also be interesting to open a new sticky thread.
Everyone should put links to pictures and people who are able to project should use them as validation.
You up for that challenge T.L. the next time you project or? I ask you because you seem confident with validations.
It shouldnt take long in your next OBE just to shoot over here quickly and hang around to see something to validate then whizz back again.
So are you T.L.?
It doesn't seem like you read many of my posts man. Everything I validated was mostly in the confines of my home, and close by. As I've explained in my of my other posts I'm still trying to figure out how to reliably go from one place to another (teleport or whatever you would like to call it). Not to mention going to a place I have no emotional connection with is certainly a problem in and of itself, which is why I have had so many problems trying to get to the white house.. Although I have had a small success with this, but the process seems to break the trance/experience. I'm not saying no. I'd be willing to try as long as you have the patience because there is no promise that I will succeed in getting out one day or the next. I can go periods of two weeks with out any experience, so it would probably be a longterm thing. Then when I do get out I'd still have to figure out how to go from here to there, it's something I haven't found a reliable solution to. If you have patience I'd certainly be willing to try.
Quote from: T.L. on June 08, 2009, 19:55:08
It doesn't seem like you read many of my posts man. Everything I validated was mostly in the confines of my home, and close by. As I've explained in my of my other posts I'm still trying to figure out how to reliably go from one place to another (teleport or whatever you would like to call it). Not to mention going to a place I have no emotional connection with is certainly a problem in and of itself, which is why I have had so many problems trying to get to the white house.. Although I have had a small success with this, but the process seems to break the trance/experience. I'm not saying no. I'd be willing to try as long as you have the patience because there is no promise that I will succeed in getting out one day or the next. I can go periods of two weeks with out any experience, so it would probably be a longterm thing. Then when I do get out I'd still have to figure out how to go from here to there, it's something I haven't found a reliable solution to. If you have patience I'd certainly be willing to try.
Hmmm ok T.L. but I actually thought if someone had a place in mind in the Etheral, they could just go there in a second even if they dont know the location or have nothing to do with the place. I have just heard that alot but I guess it may not be true. Would it help at all if I gave the city and town? and yes i'd be patient.
Quote from: catstorm3 on June 02, 2009, 01:23:43
I think this ties in strongly with the concept of consensus reality.
We can't see things if we don't allow them to be, in our reality. However, there is a "window of opportunity" mentioned by Bruce Moen, wherein we are taken by surprise, and for that brief moment, something which conflicts with our reality is "allowed" to happen. Then we do damage control and find something rational to explain it.
I had writing appear on my computer screen when fully conscious and without me having typed it. Believe me, I found many rational explanations for it which are just as compelling as the supernatural one. Yet it happened.
I think we need to find ways to change our consensus reality so that more interesting things become possible. They are possible, we just always find a "rational" explanation for them.
catstorm3, could you give some more details on the writing on computer thing? Sounds interesting
"Hmmm ok T.L. but I actually thought if someone had a place in mind in the Etheral, they could just go there in a second even if they dont know the location or have nothing to do with the place."
That's what I thought too, but it's just not that easy to me. Perhaps some people don't have a problem with that kind of thing, but it's been one of the hardest things for me to figure out. Sure we'll work something out and I'll give it a try. In a week my wife has 8 days off coming up so I'd have a lot more time to make some attempts.
Hello? TL? still up for this challenge? seems you said Yes last time so please give me a time when you may be able to go astral. TY.
"seems you said Yes last time so please give me a time when you may be able to go astral"
That's the problem I never know when I'll be able to get out. Last time I was out was around the 20th. I have the next two days off (well one now because it's now the 26th). I can give it a try, but I'm sure the lack of information isn't going to help. I don't know your name, where you live or anything relevant to who you are. Even if I wanted to visit you physically I wouldn't be able to, so I don't see how I'd be able to nonphysically without more information. I don't know how personal emotions toward certain people play a role in the success of being able to transport oneself to a certain location, and if they are all that important. As I said before I'm still working on the traveling part. I had minor successes with it by making it to some non-physical beach when I thought about API, and seen an interesting location when I thought about going to the whitehouse (a desk of a woman sitting with a headset on, and a few other people walking by). Each time it seemed like I was half in and half out of the location when I did it.
I'll give it my best shot but at least give me your city/location, and maybe your first name. Another part of this is traveling in an objective manner, rather than subjectively thinking you have traveled to the location. A good example is when some people go through a wall of their house to get outside. Before they do everything inside looks perfect, and outside (through the window) everything looks as it should. Then they go through a wall to get outside and all of a sudden they are somewhere else, definitely not in their neighborhood. It seems to me that they took an objective experience, and through a loss of concentration or perception from going through the wall they ended up in a self made (subjective) reality. Anyway my point is patience will be needed just pm me the information or post it here for me.
K dude i've sent some details and I forgot to mention i'm in UK too by the way. Good luck.
Gave it a try earlier, didn't get out. Will try again tonight when my wife and daughter go to sleep. Also so the idea is you want me to describe an object next to your pc? Like I said before be patient because I never know when I will get out, and if I do where/when I'll end up.
Quote from: thedubdude on January 22, 2009, 01:31:46
I've been having OBE's and lucid dreams for about 30 years now. I have them frequently about once a week on average. Since the time of my first OBE I've studied and read many books on the subject and many many books on spirtuality. My view of the world has changed dramatically since my first OBE and I do believe in reincarnation and life after death. That being said, I have yet to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the OBE experience is more than a trick of the mind. Here are some of the experiments I've tried (and failed) to prove the "realness" of the experience:
1. placed a random card face up and viewed it while out of body: I could see the card but it constantly changed while I viewed it. In the end I never correctly identified the card. Experiment performed 4 times.
2. Placed a closed box ,with an unknown item inside, inside my room. I try to reach inside the box and identify the item. Never could. Experiment performed about 5 times.
3. Tried speaking to my wife while out of body. She never rememberd having had the conversation. Experiment performed maybe 3 times.
4. Tried identifying a written word left out by my wife...never could. Experiment performed 3 times.
Here are some things that make me think it might be "real":
1. I've felt my astral cord.
2. I've opened my real eyes while my arms were out of my body and I saw my astral hands.
If anyone can suggest an experiment they have done that has succeed in convincing them beyond a shadow of a doubt that this experience is more than an illusion/delusion of the mind I would like to hear about it. Thank you in advance.
Sorry you are quick to disbelieve. I've had several validations. But the most validating was the one in which my ex showed up in my OBE. He has these experiences also, only his are more progressed. He told me he was going to come and join me sometime. And he did! A few days after he appeared in my OBE, my ex came over to my house and asked me if I had seen him. I told him, "I knew that shadowy figure on the stairs was you!" I had recognized his silhouette----especially that of his hair! My ex even told me that at one time when I flew past him that my and his heads had collided. This had happened when I decided to fly through him instead of past him the second time around. I flew through him from his neck up. This is when he and I collided heads!
Another time, I traveled into my son's room and briefly watched as he sat at the computer and watched YouTube videos. Later, I asked him if he had been watching wrestling videos on YouTube. He said he had been watching UFC videos on YouTube. In my book, the same thing! He must have thought I meant WWE and was specific that it was in fact UFC. I asked him if it had been wrestling cause I just knew it had been two guys squaring off in a ring.
Another time my ex came over, and as he and I stood outside talking, he nodded toward the direction underneath my upstairs bedroom window and asked me if, a few days earlier, I had traveled out my bedroom window just underneath the spot where he had motioned his head. Again, I was excited but not shocked to learn that he had seen me. I told him I had done that very thing because I wanted to scare the neighbor's dog that was always barking and annoying me.
Maybe someday you'll have an experience that will validate that these experiences are in fact real and not imagined. I have not a doubt in my mind that my experiences are VERY real.
Hi UmmaGumma
It's always good to hear validations like these, would you be interested in adding your validations to the validation thread:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/validation_thread-t25607.0.html (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/validation_thread-t25607.0.html)
?
Thanks!
I'm agreeing with Catstorm3 and Catmeow. Was going to suggest a similar idea, having to do with seeing the probabilities.
My validation opportunities are rare, but when they happen I seem to see other versions of what could have happened.
For example, I got up to verify something, checked my daughter's room, and was actually surprised to find two young sons in the bedroom, I'm guessing from another life probability.
Any progress T.L. ?
T.L, don't tell SkepticBoy the exact time, I think he's planning to set an ethereal ectoplasm energy trap to hold your astral body for scientific research. :-D
"Any progress?"
Day before yesterday I passed out in the vibrations. Yesterday I got the vibrations but my physical body wasn't relaxed enough when they struck and they faded away. Today I have not made my attempt yet (most days I have to wait for my wife to get back from work because Im watching my daughter). Tomorrow I get to attempt during the morning and afternoon because my wife is off work.
Man I screwed up. I laid down at 1 am to attempt. I got out and ended up in Pittsburgh. I can't remember how I figured out where I was I just remember when I was walking down the road I seen a sign or ad or something that led me to the realization that is where I was. I can't remember because I ended up falling asleep and into a dream. Now all I can remember is the dream I had. In the dream I was walking behind this building and I seen 5 people come running out with guns. They are in some kind of uniform and the building looked like a run down factory. They got into some kind of defensive position and 5 guys with red shirts come running out firing weapons, not real bullets though. They were having some kind of mock fight or whatever. I walked away and decided to fly. Eventually I ended up on a roof top of this one place I felt was interesting. I fell through the roof which was odd. The first thing I seen was a huge chandelier upon entering the building. I landed in a huge hallway in front of a staircase. It was all done in white marble. I walked down the stairs and people were passing and talking. They were not speaking english at all but I could tell they were speaking french, it's easy to identify french when you hear it spoken. Anyway that's about it.
Im just ticked that I was able to project but now forget the entire thing because I ended up losing consciousness and fell into a dream. The dream itself though could have been an unconscious projection but when that happens it might as well be just a dream because you have no control or memory of control at all. However since when do I have normal dreams that involve people speaking a non-english language (when all I can speak is english). Oh well no point in it for me to speculate. Im just mad at myself for slipping into a dream in the first place, normally once I feel myself slipping towards unconsciousness Ill sit up physically before I end up slipping into a dream, as to not forget what I had just done and keep the entire experience and the finer points of it intact in my memory. Well, Ill just have to try again grrr.
Gonna try still T.L.?
Yeah I got out this morning but ended up in my hometown in a different year (1996). I just observed all the people I used to know running around...etc. I wouldnt be able to figure out how to get to the present from there. There would be no use in trying either to go there from where I was because I don't even know if your house existed in 1996 heh or if you lived there, even if that is the case that object I am to identify wouldn't have been there. Im waiting for the best exist when I end up in the here and now to try to get there.
Verifications of OBE are only dreams of some ezoteric people...
Nothing more...
It's XXI century!
First position must be OBE = AP = Lucide
Second - try to prove another, if think so
Quote from: MikeMk on July 09, 2009, 14:09:01
Validations are only dreams of some ezoteric people...
Nothing more...
It's XXI century!
What does the word 'validate' mean to you?
Deleted- quoted when I meant to modify.
Quote from: CFTraveler
What does the word 'validate' mean to you?
Sorry
verifications of OBE
Quote from: catmeow on June 30, 2009, 19:23:13
Hi UmmaGumma
It's always good to hear validations like these, would you be interested in adding your validations to the validation thread:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/validation_thread-t25607.0.html (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/validation_thread-t25607.0.html)
?
Thanks!
I'd be more than happy!
Nvm then T.L. guess you cant do it.
Thanks UmmaGumma, I look forward to reading it! A lot of people aren't aware of this thread since it is tucked awaya little.
QuoteNvm then T.L. guess you cant do it.
This attitude is part of the reason I was apprehensive about arranging this experiment with you. I told you from the beginning a lot of patience is required not only because I may be only able to get out a couple of times a week. Then when I get out I don't always end up in the here and now, and even after all my experiences I still can't control that yet. Then the traveling part while out I still haven't figured out a way to completely control that either. These are all things I pointed out when you first asked me to do the experiment. This is the reason I could only validate things in or around my house, and until I gain more control over the experience I wont be able to. I also pointed out with all these issues it will take quite some time, and probably still will.
This is silly anyway. To be able to project to someones house and prove something, u have to have a very
strong emotional connection to it, and even then you have to prepare every day for weeks to achieve that
goal and even then its not said that it would work. Our higher selfs are watching over us, and even then
when we most want to validate something, the chances seem to shrink. Why? I dont know.
Quote from: Panthau on July 16, 2009, 15:59:34
Our higher selfs are watching over us, and even then
when we most want to validate something, the chances seem to shrink. Why? I dont know.
I seriously believe there is a mechanism involved which prevents us from performing an ultimate validation. The reason? well because we are here to go through an earth-experience - if we knew for sure that there was an after-life then that would completely change our earth-experience and would defeat the whole reason for us being here. So we are only allowed glimpses of the truth, but are not allowed to definitively "prove" it.
Quote from: catmeow on July 16, 2009, 19:32:02
I seriously believe there is a mechanism involved which prevents us from performing an ultimate validation. The reason? well because we are here to go through an earth-experience - if we knew for sure that there was an after-life then that would completely change our earth-experience and would defeat the whole reason for us being here. So we are only allowed glimpses of the truth, but are not allowed to definitively "prove" it.
Or not yet, anyway. Maybe some day, maybe our experience of separation (subjectivity) makes it impossible to prove it. After all, the nature of this existence (the ability for subjectivity) sort of seems to preclude the ability to ultimately do anything, 'ultimately' being the operative word here.
thedubdude,
I have been projecting over twenty years now and have verified w/o no shadow of a doubt that something does exist beyound. I was like you trying so hard, out on a mission blazing fire to have physical evidence to spiritual after life existance.
Never really got anywhere until I stopped caring and gave up on validations. Also, not to mention how my worldy views, caring, opening up and loving others made a diffence in change. In the last five years of statistc tracking, I have validated roughly 65 OBEs - either coidences, validation, sycronicity.. its all there in my journal spreadsheet.
You are more than welcome to visit my web site and compare notes and review the data presented.
Good luck,
Tvos
QuoteTo be able to project to someones house and prove something, u have to have a very
strong emotional connection to it
I don't agree with that notion I've had limited success with getting to places I didn't have an emotional connection with. As long as I was focused on my intent and was in no danger of falling asleep/losing consciousness. Of course it does take time though for the right kind of exit to occur. One in which I end up in the here and now. Until I get more control over the experiences this will stay an issue, but I feel if I can get control over it it will no longer be an issue.
I believe there only requires a strong will or intent to do something.
Quote from: Xanth on July 17, 2009, 09:14:07
I believe there only requites a strong will or intent to do something.
haha if that would be the case, id be able to project since a year or so :P
Quote from: Panthau on July 17, 2009, 09:28:54
haha if that would be the case, id be able to project since a year or so :P
:)
I should add to my statement "when out of body". ;)
Once you're out, anything is merely only a thought away.
if you have intent, goals, a plan of action you want to pursue in the obe, your success rate of achivement will prevail. if you just go about projecting casually w/o direction, you will be pulled back and the obes will be short lived.
i talk from experience of having thousands of obes, experimentations, documentation, statistics. its like anything in physical life - if you approach playing the guitar w/o no specific goal or itent you won't be a good player... or being a painter - why paint if there is no goal?
tvos
Im having the goal to have an obe. Does that count? hehe
Or would it be generally easier to get an obe if you have a goal?
I have so many goals, but id like to first validate that it works hehe
the goal of having the obe is good way to start... but what i am referring to is when you do project, what do you want to accomplish while out of body. maybe its just getting out of the body a few feet looking back at your physical, or leaving the house sitting on the front porch. these are simple goals and should realize you have to start off simple and basic being realistic.
tvos
[quote author=tvos link=topic=29064.msg242284#msg242284 date=1247844622
i talk from experience of having thousands of obes, experimentations, documentation, statistics. its like anything in physical life - if you approach playing the guitar w/o no specific goal or itent you won't be a good player... or being a painter - why paint if there is no goal?
tvos
[/quote]
So out of your thousands of OBE's....how many validations you get?
SB,
In the last five year study that I conducted and tracked statstically which is available from my web site: www.invisiblelight.us - the count was at 65. I ended the study not too long ago because I do not need to validate proof of the other side.
I know what you are going to say next "prove it to me". The first thing you should do is prove it to yourself. I am not talking about a few experiments, - I am talking about training for the olympics and doing the work. I offer on my web site a statistical excel spreadsheet that I have organized on my tracking: Food/Validations/Exercise/Projections.
Even if I was to prove it to you, then I would have to do it for the next person, and then the next. Still there would be skeptics out there challenging that proof - even if it was in black and white announced to the world.
Your more welcome to read my faqs, view the videos, radio show interviews for further assistance.
I also highly recommend taking the time studying, educating yourself with different world religions, faiths, practices, and belief systems. It is good to keep a skeptical mind and challenge it all the time, but don't let it limit you.
Good Luck,
Tvos