Expectations vs. Results

[Q-Dog]

Hello -

I'm completely new to the whole OBE/Astral Projection experience (although the other day I felt the heart chakra thumping and heard the astral noise in that limbo stage between asleep and awake, but I think fear woke me up), yet I'm fascinated by it and lately have read up on it in this forum and on Robert Bruce's website.  But then I got a feeling that perhaps I was elaborating too many mental constructs and expectations of what the experience SHOULD be, rather than keeping an open "beginner's mind" (as well as reducing the "excitement" that could very easily lead to impatience in trying to achieve the trance state).  What are your thoughts on this?

I have also started experimenting with the NEW Energy Ways and have felt it working.  Does this help me with OBE?  What are the methods/procedures that you would recommend I go through (and in what order) to achieve the best results?

Thanks -

Q

[Leo Volont]

Dear Q-Dog,

Yeah, do as much energy stuff as you can.

When you DO go Lucid or get Astral you will FEEL how much that state is dependent upon just that simple conscious energy.

Indeed, all the methodology and discussions of technique may only be useful in that when you finally have the Energy you will know what to do with it.

[geoff]

Beleif is everything, beleive me

If you beleive you can do something, you can. It really is that simple.

Anyone that tells you otherwise, is forming a control barrier over you.

"Seek and ye shall find" becomes "Dang, I already had what I was looking for!"

Think of yourself as a tiny miracle, and the more miraculous you realise yourself to be, the smaller you become.

Explosive egos lack substance.

The path is within, and it gets narrower as you traverse it.

[Q-Dog]

Thanks Leo and geoff for your replies.

A few questions though:  Is the process of building up energy analogous to going to the gym and working out?  The more I work those energy "muscles" the more energy I can handle? Or does the success of energy work depend on other factors? (i.e. diet, physical exercise, social life, prayer, sunlight, positive thinking, etc?).  And an offshoot question, where is this energy coming from?  Am I producing it, or is it coming in through the soles of my feet from the environment? Is it a potentially limitless source of energy?

Lots of q´s, from another Q....

[clandestino]

A few questions though: Is the process of building up energy analogous to going to the gym and working out? The more I work those energy "muscles" the more energy I can handle? Or does the success of energy work depend on other factors? (i.e. diet, physical exercise, social life, prayer, sunlight, positive thinking, etc?).

It is very much analogous to going to the gym, IMO. As you work through RB's exercises, you will find they become easier over time, just as swimming becomes less effort with practise.

The success of energy work depends on PRACTISE, not just reading about it ! Obvious statement, I know, but one to consider. If I spent 20 mins practising, for every 5 mins I'm on the internet, I would progress so much faster !!! However, I don't have that luxury at the moment.

Not only does success depend on practise, but a moderate, healthy, stress-free outlook towards life is very helpful, too.

Going back to your original post,  the ability to OBE is a function of your willingness to believe, IMO. This means that the slightest doubt of your own capability will hold you back. There will be times when you will e.g. lie down to bed, "knowing" that later on, you will have an OBE. Lo and behold, a few hours later you will find yourself "out of body".

There is no "trick" in having an OBE - it seems to be something that anyone can do. However, the problem arises when we try and replicate our OBEs at will.

As an example, if I wanted to learn how to play guitar, I would go to guitar lessons. A teacher would show me how to play chords & scales. I might even learn to read music. Alternatively, I could learn from a book, that shows me where to place my fingers & where to pick the strings, in what order, to acheive the desired sound. Unfortunately, learning OBE is not as simple - there are no formulae, recipes, no tablatured books. Instead we learn by a mixture of a) trial and error, and b) interpreting the experiences and lessons of successful OBE-ers, who have the hard work of putting their experience into a language we can understand !!

[Leo Volont]

Thanks Leo and geoff for your replies.

A few questions though:  Is the process of building up energy analogous to going to the gym and working out?  The more I work those energy "muscles" the more energy I can handle? Or does the success of energy work depend on other factors? (i.e. diet, physical exercise, social life, prayer, sunlight, positive thinking, etc?).  And an offshoot question, where is this energy coming from?  Am I producing it, or is it coming in through the soles of my feet from the environment? Is it a potentially limitless source of energy?

Lots of q´s, from another Q....

Good questions.

About diet -- there are various schools.  Some people believe that virtual starvation -- fasting -- gives people oodles of energy.  However the Sihks and the Tantrics think food is a good thing.   I think what happens with fasting, starvation,  is that the deterioration of the nervous system begins to generate the stuffs of Near Death Experience.  It is as though the dissolution of the body tissues DOES release some Life Energy.  It give us hope that Death will be a beautiful experience, but I wonder of the wisdom of bringing It on sooner than later.

Rather than acquiring energy by ravaging it from one's cellular integrity -- stealing it from one's body's tissues -- I would recommend simply living a healthy life, and then STORING energy.

By meditating upon one's Chakras they can be filled with energy.  Your analogy of muscular exercise is somewhat appropriate.  Muscles do get bigger with exercise.  Even just doing a few heavy resistance repetitions can 'pump up' the muscles temporarily.  So with the Chakras.

Now, regarding another school of Energy Acquisition -- there are those who believe that Sexual Energy can be converted to Spiritual Energy.  This was perhaps true within the same schools that believed in Starvation.  At a certain point the body needs to make choices.  When the body is so weakened by Starvation that the sex drive peters out and gives up, The Teaching that is then evoked is that the Aspirant 'choose' to become Celibate in order to defer his energies to higher purposes.  Actually, all of that would have been quite unnecessary if only the 'Aspirant' could eat at least two meals a day.  With sufficient caloric and nutritive intake, there is enough Energy created for all the physical and Spiritual functions.  This is not to say that sexuality does not fixate many people in their animality, and that the Sex Life is given by far the larger priority, almost totally eclipsing the Spiritual Life for many people.  Yet, starving them to drive them to celibacy seems a bit extreme.  I can't see that people can't get enough sex in just a few minutes once or twice a week, and that such a small allocation of time should detract significantly from the more important spiritual work that one would rather be doing.

Now, as for the Energy Meditations.  Some people can learn techniques -- breathing exercises and visualizations, etc -- which they feel are quite helpful.  I myself believe that Shaktipat Gurus, of various traditions, can be very instrumental.  They open Chakras by sending energy into them.  It is like barrowing money to open a business.   You can try to meditate on an Agna Chakra that has no energy.  You will be cognizant of almost no results.  But if a Guru puts a thumping pile of energy into your Agna Chakra, then you learn instantly what Chakra Meditation is.   To find these Gurus, just keep your eyes and ears open.  They are around.  But they are not absolutely necessary.  Some of the descriptions of energy work being done by some of the people who Post on this Site indicate that they are doing quite well for people who have never received Shaktipat.  but still, it is a great Short Cut if you can get it.

Oh, and there is also an Energy Benefit from clustering in a group of Spiritual People.  In an ancient Hindu Text it is said "In the presence of a God or Saint, the Agna Chakra will open".  In a group of high energy people, the Energy is contagious.  A few Open Chakras in a room will open up other people's Chakras.

Then why have there been so many Hermits successful in Spiritual Work.  Well, most people will drag you down.  It is almost as difficult to find a Good Spiritual Group as it is to find a Good Shaktipat Guru.

And with Gurus, you need to exercise caution and discernment.  I once read a book called "Spiritual Cannabalism".  It was a frank and candid exposition on how one can feed off the energy of others -- the technique is to set one's self up as a Guru to be worshipped by others -- that you can get alot of energy by persuading people to hand it over to you on silver platters, so to speak.   Now, not every Guru is such a lowlife thief as that... but many are.  The trick we need to practice is one of Discernment.  Are we stronger or weaker from having been in the presence of some Guru?  Does the Guru give or does he simply take?  Or, better yet, just pay attention to your dreams.  Your dreams will tell you when to take a Guru and your dreams will also be quick enough to tell you when to dump a Guru.

Enough for now...

[Leo Volont]

I remembered a somewhat ludicrous means of attaining Spiritual Energy.

There is this book which is still being published... "Secret of the Golden Flower" which is even endorsed with a forward by the illustrious Carl Gustav Jung himself.  The Book is about Taoist Yoga -- the Chinese version of Tantric Yoga.

I read the book over and over and underneath the euphemisms I could not shake off the conclusion that the Chinese think that Fart Gas is the greatest source of Spiritual Energy.  You see, their recommendation for retaining and storing 'Spiritual Energy' is to get a rounded wedge of wood and fitting it up the crack of the butt and sitting on it in such a way that no 'Spiritual Energy' can escape.  That certainly sounds to me that they wished to exert enough pressure upon the anus so that methane gas could not escape.

Then they had diagrams and descriptions of how this 'energy' would back up through the body and 'inflate' the different Chakras.  

Yuck!

They should have included a disclaimer in the book warning about the hazzards of explosion near any open flame.

And just to point out that various Spiritual Traditions can seem to disagree upon almost anything... Pythagoras, when he drew up a set of Rules for his Spiritual-Mathematic Community, made it Rule Number One that the Members of his Order could not eat any bean or legume product.... and I can't make myself believe that Pythagoras objected to beans because their influence would be too 'spiritual'.