This true or not please. do they always have to be closed?
No its not true, you can move conciosness to astral awareness and shift out of body with eyes open...ive done it a few times...I wanted to test the theory so just let my self go into a light trance like state and focused on getting out..as it were... when you exit from pyhiscal focus into atsral body, you just see through subtle body and no longer through your physical eyes...it actually feels really cool! but it can make your eyes water.
Just curios though, why do you want to ? :-)
However, it's not as easy. There is something called the Ganzfeld effect which induces open eyed clairvoyance, but the conditions (the lack of visual input) are the same- you don't see anything, so your pineal provides the content.
Quote from: CFTraveler on January 04, 2012, 14:39:41
However, it's not as easy. There is something called the Ganzfeld effect which induces open eyed clairvoyance, but the conditions (the lack of visual input) are the same- you don't see anything, so your pineal provides the content.
Hi do you mean your physical is seeing at the same time as you are traveling and expireincing through your subtle body? I must have miss understood lol that doesn't sound possible . I see clairvoyantly with my eyes open always, that's not unusual.
And i dont mean to be flippant but it really isnt that difficult, jut relax, focus and keep the intent in mind...took me 10 minutes or so the first time and i was free in the room and my physical was sat nicely in a chair with eyes open...but of course my consciousness was else where.
If you participate in TMI's Gateway Voyage then do an exercise where you move into the focus states while outside to see how it affects you in the physical. Just thought I'd add that.
Quote from: majour ka on January 04, 2012, 15:39:46
Hi do you mean your physical is seeing at the same time as you are traveling and expireincing through your subtle body? I must have miss understood lol that doesn't sound possible . I see clairvoyantly with my eyes open always, that's not unusual.
I don't understand this statement. It sounds like you're saying two different things. I was describing a technique to induce open eyed clairvoyance, I wasn't talking about my own practices.
QuoteAnd i dont mean to be flippant but it really isnt that difficult, jut relax, focus and keep the intent in mind...took me 10 minutes or so the first time and i was free in the room and my physical was sat nicely in a chair with eyes open...but of course my consciousness was else where.
And I don't meant to be a downer, but I've been projecting for around 45 years and only have projected with my eyes open once. Just because you have a clairvoyant ability doesn't mean it's easy- it means
you can do it in 10 minutes.
I used to have a friend (back in my college days) that would get visions while up and about, and sometimes she got them while she was driving. It wasn't mental illness either, she would often tell me what I was thinking and what would happen the next day- she was extremely talented. But she was not your average person that can do that- it came natural to her and she never did anything to make it happen, at least on purpose.
Quote from: CFTraveler on January 04, 2012, 17:11:41
I don't understand this statement. It sounds like you're saying two different things. I was describing a technique to induce open eyed clairvoyance, I wasn't talking about my own practices.
Oh I see, sorry, I understand now :-)
Quote from: CFTraveler on January 04, 2012, 17:11:41And I don't meant to be a downer, but I've been projecting for around 45 years and only have projected with my eyes open once. Just because you have a clairvoyant ability doesn't mean it's easy- it means you can do it in 10 minutes.
Yes i can do AP with my eyes open, but ist a separate issue from clairvoanynce.
Quote from: CFTraveler on January 04, 2012, 17:11:41I used to have a friend (back in my college days) that would get visions while up and about, and sometimes she got them while she was driving. It wasn't mental illness either, she would often tell me what I was thinking and what would happen the next day- she was extremely talented. But she was not your average person that can do that- it came natural to her and she never did anything to make it happen, at least on purpose
I think you will find the majority of people that "work" with clairvoyance do so with their eyes open, it really makes no difference if they closed or not since we see it with our mind, not our eyes as you know... its just what we ever we practice more. It its more practical to work with them open ie giving someone a reading. Unless of course you are on your own and then it doesn't matter either way I guess. Regards.
Quote from: majour ka on January 04, 2012, 02:40:56
Just curios though, why do you want to ? :-)
I am just looking for techniques to try. There seems to be a lot good reports of how the mind goes into trance with things such as candle staring and the Ganzfeld technique and thought maybe this could be used to project.
Quote from: majour ka on January 04, 2012, 19:49:36
Oh I see, sorry, I understand now :-)
Yes i can do AP with my eyes open, but ist a separate issue from clairvoanynce.
I think you will find the majority of people that "work" with clairvoyance do so with their eyes open, it really makes no difference if they closed or not since we see it with our mind, not our eyes as you know... its just what we ever we practice more. It its more practical to work with them open ie giving someone a reading. Unless of course you are on your own and then it doesn't matter either way I guess. Regards.
All I have to add is that it seems true clairvoyance is more difficult to learn/do than your standard AP, probably due to the fact that it's normal to stay physically awake during, rather than having your body fall asleep. Steiner found clairvoyance to be beneficial for having a more true perception of what's happening in your awareness, fewer chances of illusory perception of things.
Quote from: Stookie_ on January 05, 2012, 11:53:37
All I have to add is that it seems true clairvoyance is more difficult to learn/do than your standard AP, probably due to the fact that it's normal to stay physically awake during, rather than having your body fall asleep. Steiner found clairvoyance to be beneficial for having a more true perception of what's happening in your awareness, fewer chances of illusory perception of things.
yeah maybe that's true. I suppose for all of us our experiences are subjective and some of us find certain aspects easier to obtain, or struggle with.
I do believe though that the more we become attuned to our subtle body, that awareness makes it easier in many aspects, such as to move our mind into that place to see sense or hear spirit or the spirit of another person..or to shift it completly and AP..I ofetn think we people say they havent had an AP but have been trying for a long time some meditation upon the spirit self would help so much...just to get used to the feeling of what we are trying to move into. Eyes open or not lol :-)
Quote from: Gummage on January 04, 2012, 20:43:11
I am just looking for techniques to try. There seems to be a lot good reports of how the mind goes into trance with things such as candle staring and the Ganzfeld technique and thought maybe this could be used to project.
Yeah cool, why not! I actually find it pretty amazing going into a trance with eyes open, the room changes colour, gets brighter or darker, pyshical matter starts to lose its solid form and so on. I havent done it for a while but you git me all fired up and and gonna give it a go later! :-D
I found sitting in a chair and focusing on a spot on the floor or something that wont get the mind working too much and just let the gaze go and focus on the breath worked for me. Have fun! 8-)
Quote from: majour ka on January 05, 2012, 14:07:27
I found sitting in a chair and focusing on a spot on the floor or something that wont get the mind working too much and just let the gaze go and focus on the breath worked for me. Have fun! 8-)
You stared at the floor and later projected??
K thx all for answers so far but I guess at this point I just want to know if its actually not possible to project with eyes open or not. Last thing I want to happen is to do everything right to find out no matter how well I do I cannot project because my eyes are open.
Yes, it's possible, but not very common and probably very distracting, especially if you're not good at projecting.
You don't sleep with you eyes open, do you? I would guess if your eyes stay open then you aren't deep enough to project. Maybe you just need a deeper trance. A sleep mask might help.
Quote from: Stookie_ on January 06, 2012, 11:41:15
Yes, it's possible, but not very common and probably very distracting, especially if you're not good at projecting.
You don't sleep with you eyes open, do you? I would guess if your eyes stay open then you aren't deep enough to project. Maybe you just need a deeper trance. A sleep mask might help.
Some people actually do sleep with their eyes half open..and looks freaky!! lol
And you can quite easily project with your eyes open, its just a matter of subtle body awareness and focus. If anything the focus is easier! because you have a point of focus to look at and IMPORTANTLY your very aware of the subtle changes of your body, mind and vision which acts as a great gauge of progress IE as you feel your self becoming subtle enough and focused enough to make the shift you can keep your mind in that place and so build easily towards the experience, plus you get to see some really great colours and psychical reality shifts on the way, which can be distracting to start with, but once you let go its fine.....If we make our minds up its not easy then is it likely to be?
PS in my experience in projecting with your eyes open, ive only found myself in the first local ie here in this world.
An separating with open eyes is very hard. I had experienced some sleep paralysis states with open eyes, but was never able to leave them the body. The change from physical view to astral view is a very hard thing, which can be especially hard for beginners, because there is need a special kind of focus and much experience, or one will fall back every few seconds if one sees something new.
I hate to be back on this thread again, but it seems that I feel the need to clarify something.
Yes, many people sleep with their eyes at least partly open, but they don't fall asleep that way- they fall asleep, relax and the lid muscles open. At this point they're already 'not seeing' with their eyes, the pineal gland is prob. going full speed generating images- just like when you first wake up the images are blocking whatever may be in the room as you open your eyes (as in hypnopomp).
Like I said, it's doable, but it's easier with eyes closed.
Quote from: CFTraveler on January 12, 2012, 21:03:20
I hate to be back on this thread again, but it seems that I feel the need to clarify something.
Yes, many people sleep with their eyes at least partly open, but they don't fall asleep that way- they fall asleep, relax and the lid muscles open. At this point they're already 'not seeing' with their eyes, the pineal gland is prob. going full speed generating images- just like when you first wake up the images are blocking whatever may be in the room as you open your eyes (as in hypnopomp).
Like I said, it's doable, but it's easier with eyes closed.
And I hate that you got me back here to agree with you! lol :? :-D
Think we can leave this one now.... :-P
(http://www.legaljuice.com/Handshake%20hurts%20hand%20shake%20painful%20pain%20bad.GIF)
Quote from: CFTraveler on January 13, 2012, 09:43:24
(http://www.legaljuice.com/Handshake%20hurts%20hand%20shake%20painful%20pain%20bad.GIF)
hahahahaaha! excellent :-D