OBE and blind people

[patapouf]

I've read Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce and I saw that he developed the NEW energy techniques to adapt it for a blind person (based on tactile imaging). Is there anybody here who knows how a blind person may experience things in the astral? Since we do not use the physical body to move around does it means that this blind person will be able to ''see'' with astral eyes? I wonder if blind persons might be able to describe their OBE experiences with us; it must be interesting.

[manuel]

I seriously doubt that ALL blind people cannot see during obes, the only limitations is ones self.

[Kodemaster]

I knew a guy that was legally blind that had one...he said that he was at some kind of summer camp, or was camping at some school, and that he was walking the halls at night...

I wanna say he said his vision was slightly better while OB, but perhaps it was still blurry because he hadn't leanred to focus his third eye yet.

Cheers,

[Kodemaster]

By the way, Manuel:

I LOVE your avatar. Did you paint that picture?

[manuel]

oh thanks man, alex grey made these images, and a good chap made the animated giff for me.


www.alexgrey.com

[Leannain]

awesome avatar manuel.

[patapouf]

Kodemaster, you relate to a blind person that did experience some kind of visual effect when out of body? For a person blind from birth, it must be a weird feeling and disorienting first; like someone hearing sound for the first time. Anyway, ''to see'' (reflection of light on objects) is not a prerequisite for a living organism and it is mostly related to the physical life (5 senses) so maybe there is other ways ''to map'' the ''astral environment'' such as positive and negative vibrations, energies, etc. (I'm just guessing here)?

[patapouf]

yeah, nice avatar manuel,

[patapouf]

Really interesting runlola, similar situation maybe like Neo in the movie ''The Matrix'' looses his eyes and his able to ''see'' somehow with his mind.

[patapouf]

runlola, I went on amazon  to look at the book and bought it and I will read it since it seems interesting.

Thank you and take care,

[catmeow]

runlola,

You beat me to it!  I was going to post the same info.  

Mindsight - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966963008/

I've read the book, it's good.  To clarify, some of these NDE'ers were completely blind from birth yet describe "vision-like" experiences during NDE.  In some cases their "vison" was panoramic and crystal clear, and they described amongst other things lights, shapes, textures and colours.  Vision in some cases was detailed right down to discerning every hair follicle on the surgeon's head. We cannot be sure that what they experienced was "vision" as we understand it, or some other sense.  

I'm half-way through a second book, also by Kenneth Ring:

Lessons from the light - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966132785/

He devotes a chapter to NDE's in the blind (taken from his research for Mindsight), but he also covers a few other interesting areas such as NDE's in the exceptionally young (like 2 years old).  Even a 2 year old child describes going through a tunnel and coming out into a brightly lit area where they meet their deceased grandfather ("with a light on his head").  

All of the above quoted from memory, so I apologise for any minor errors!  

catmeow

[Tombo]

Very interesting Topic!

Are there any born Blind People that can see during a OBE? I ask this, cause a NDE is (probably) not the same as a OBE.

A side note: It seems problematic to me that a born blind can definitely say he saw, because he doesn't even know how it should feel.
On the other hand I believe in Reincarnation, so he might know from a other lifetime! Ha! I just answered my own question

BTW: Catmeow, how is your Leg doing? Geetings from Switzerland, Miau!

[patapouf]

I just received the book this week and it looks very interesting. I thought that it would not make sense if nobody had research on blind people from birth and the possibility of ''seeing'' while out of body. To me, scientist might have to look further than their hypothesis of saying that the brain recreate images with certain chemical reactions that is produce during NDEs or OBEs. I totally agree with the author when he criticizes ''scientism'' in the foreword of the book. Science is too dogmatic and extremist and from this scientific materialist perspective; it is not surprising that many people criticize them that they often create ''naive realism'' out of their conclusions; which later, they would have to change many aspects of their studies to say that some things were wrong. Not surprising that science is considered as being culturally constructed and not totally objective: it changes with time (just like culture). I hope that this book will make this kind of study more popular in the years to come; maybe some really nice conclusions will come out of this.

[Gaarden]

It's no surprise that Dr. Kenneth Ring would devote an entire book to the subject of NDE's of the blind. He IS the researcher who helped to put the work of Dr. Raymond Moody on the map, after all. Hmm, sounds quite interesting indeed. I'll pick up that book someday and read it, thanks for the suggestion!

P.S: Great Avatar, Manuel!

[catmeow]

Hi Gaarden,

Kenneth Ring is a meticulous and very well-read researcher.   His books are good.  Don't miss the chapters on the Life Review in Lessons from the Light.  NDE'ers describe a Life Review which sometimes encompasses every single moment and event from their lives in a single panaramic view.  Somehow, everything is seen in a single instant.  One way to describe this is to imagine you are driving along a road, taking every corner and junction as you go along.  Now imagine you could watch this whole journey from a height of say a thousand feet.  You would be able to see the whole journey in one go.  People who experience the Life Review sometimes experience every event in their life again in an instant.

They experience every single thought and emotion of every single event in their lives.  But more importantly, they also experience every single thought and emotion of everyone their actions have affected.  So in this way the feel all the pain they caused and all the good too.  For some NDE'ers this is a very difficult experience - as they watch and judge themselves.

I've known about this for many years, but Ring describes it in great detail.  As I say, he is very meticulous.

One thing I would like to know from Ring is, for those NDE'ers who were blind from birth, did any experience a visual Life Review?!

catmeow