OBE by TCMS

[Pauli2]

I parted from our new chat room and went somewhere else. Someone then showed me this link:

http://www.pni.org/esp/medicine/obe/obeangular.htm

Trans cranial electromagnetic stimulation

[catmeow]

It's old news I'm afraid. Olaf Blanke rears his head as the great OBE debunker. He managed to induce "OBE like" sensations in one epileptic (ie neurologically abnormal) subject by stimulating the angular gyrus. His paper was published and the press, media and scientific community immediately decided that all OBEs are caused by a misfiring angular gyrus.

Now this is one case, in an abnormal (epileptic) subject, which I don't believe has been replicated by others and you will find it being quoted everywhere from New Scientist to Scientific American to Nature and the Lancet as proof that OBEs are all in the head.

I do believe that Blanke managed to elicit ecsomatic sensations in an epileptic subject, but that doesn't really prove much. Until this experiment is widely repeated in normal subjects who then go on to describe the whole spectrum of OBE sensations, including massively heightened consciousness, heightened senses, 360 degree or spherical vision, instantaneous thought travel to distant locations, bringing back veridical information, and yes, even being seen at a distance, not until this happens is the OBE mystery explained.

Simply inducing one sensation out of a spectrum experience, in one abnormal subject does not mean that the subject is closed. We can induce memory loss in normal subjects by electro convulsive therapy. That doesn't mean we have discovered the cause of Alzheimers.

EDIT - Actually I read a bit more of the article. The article is in fact critical of drawing unwarranted conclusions based on this one paper by Blanke.

For instance the first paragraph in "Legitimate conclusions" section says

"The OBE described by Blanke et al. (2002) is significantly atypical compared with those typically reported in subjective paranormal experients, who see not only themselves but an extended environment. Furthermore, there may also be another phenomenologically distinct category of OBE in near-death experiencers, as well, who may recall events even while in coma—something very unphysiological indeed (Morse & Neppe, 1991). Thus the Blanke et al. OBE may just be one OBE variant and any conclusions drawn cannot be generalisable to all OBEs."

PS - Thanks Pauli for this link, it is in fact a valuable discussion of Blanke's paper.

[Bellend_1010]

I always thought the Angler Gyrus thing from blanc and the more recent experiments was interesting but not really anywhere close to being conclusive as a true OBE is something very different and not just sitting there feeling like your consciousness is somewhere else yes there is much more phenomena going on when out of your physical body than just feeling dissociated. Come on is that the best they can do?

[catmeow]

It's the best at present. To be honest it's an interesting result but it really is pretty meaningless scientifically. The authors of the article (the "Pacific Neuropsychiatric Institute") make several points:

1 The OBE described appears atypical.
2 The likely pathological area (angular gyrus) in this patient cannot be compared with that area in normal individuals.
3 Generalisation of this one case to other humans is not warranted.
4 Previous experiments suggest more than one locality for provoking an OBE by electrocortical stimulation.
5 Even when specific OBE experiences can be traced to anomalous brain functioning, these specific experiences neither confirm nor deny the veridicality of the OBE experience

I have previously ranted about Blanke here

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/outofbody_experience_clues_may_hide_in_mind-t22481.0.html;msg191577#msg191577