How do you know what you see in the astral is real or genuine vs subconscious?

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

How do you know what you see or experience in the astral is real or genuine vs subconscious? Thanks.

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Let me get this straight, I do believe that most of the experience in the astral is real. But how do you know what your subconscious is manifesting?

[Xanth]

Straight up... you can *never* be sure.  You've gotta learn to live gracefully with that uncertainty.

With time and experience, you'll be able to have an educated guess... but then you still don't really *know* for certain.

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

In talking to my brother about astral projection he said that he thinks that it's just all in the OBE'ers head. I'm going to tell him yes your right, you experience the astral in your head just as much as you would experience this world in our head. How about that one.

Subconscious or not.

I still want to know what others have to say about this.

[Fourthdimension]

I couldn't sleep tonight because of y stupid choice of doing energy work while in bed and then not been able to 'click-out' or project.

So I spent my night listening to seminars by Tom Campbell........I watched the 11 part interview that a user posted on here and then went on too watch the Saturday Calgary seminar and one of the questions that he was asked was this one.

He says that on first meeting with an entity you can never know if its manifested from your subconscious or not and that you would have to have regular meetings for 4,5 or 6n months steering the conversation towards evidential stuff....stuff that you can check on and you know its not from your subconscious when you 'know yourself well' and know that its not something coming from your head such as if you never heard of a name before but yet in the astral you get this name then you can say this isn't something I know so therfore it is unlikely that its coming from my subconscious and then if you went and checked up opn that name you would find it and other information.

I want to click the 'post button' now but am inclined to finish with something that Tom also said "It doesnt matter wether the ibnformation is coming from inside you or not, if you can make use of it, if it helps you grow-up(as Tom says)" what he means by helping you grow up is if by getting this information it helps your spiritual evolution or helps you grasp an understanding ect ect then it doesnt matter wether its coming from inside you or not because thats irrelavent but what is relevant is wether or not the information is useful.

He also ssays the same about belief. "sgould I believe it or not believe it" he said thats 'childish' (in his own words) and that you should approach things with skeptism and openmindness and if you find it useful then believing it or not believing it is irrelvant.


I use to always go nah that cant be true I dont believe that but I do believe that and until I watched Tom I never understood how right he was that it is a childish attitude and what matters is wether or not things are useful


Take care

[Lionheart]

 My answer to this is that it only has to be real to you. We are not doing this to impress other people, we are doing this for our own personal advancement. To grow, to learn, to understand what our own personal reality entails. This is why putting a 'title" to this has never been important to me. I always say relax, release, let go and experience it now, you can always find a "title" for it later. 

[Indigo Wolf]

It all comes down to the million dollar question: Is consciousness a product of the brain? Personally, I have not experienced enough "OBE's" to judge for myself. I do believe that OBE's, Lucid Dreams, Visions, NDE's and Alien Abductions are all related. Whether they are internal or external is very difficult to answer.

[Xanth]

In talking to my brother about astral projection he said that he thinks that it's just all in the OBE'ers head. I'm going to tell him yes your right, you experience the astral in your head just as much as you would experience this world in our head. How about that one.

Subconscious or not.

I still want to know what others have to say about this.

Peace!

Instead of speaking in absolutes (yes or no), tell him to find out for himself by learning how to do it and make his own judgment call after directly experiencing it.
I can tell you for certain that it's not just "in your head" (if you mean generated by your brain), but I can't prove it to you in any possible way, shape or form.

It's a state of consciousness... what we're currently experiencing this very second (this physical reality) is also just a "state of consciousness".

The only difference between this physical reality and another reality we experience while not physical is that this one is constant and more stable.  That's all.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Astralprojectee,
Ask your brother, would you rather be an astronaut or an astronomer?
If the answer is astronaut, tell him to learn, get out there and stop asking questions.
If the answer is astronomer, tell him to ask the question to someone else.

Can you work this one out?

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Szaxx that would make no sense to my brother he is extremely logical.

[Lionheart]

 A logical man still has an open mind. It's illogical not to! 

[Contenteo]

Quick answer, it's all real in the sense that 100% of what you perceive is based on 'incoming data'. The question should really be rephrased to ask, How do I know where the data is coming from?

Xanth was spot on.

Straight up... you can *never* be sure.  You've gotta learn to live gracefully with that uncertainty.

With time and experience, you'll be able to have an educated guess... but then you still don't really *know* for certain.

With practice and recording your events, placing them into a mental model, you can get a more general feel for the different places information can come from. In the end it looks like a large stack of layers. When you project you are pulling of the first layers(info from the physical). If this is the 'real' in question, good luck because this information seems to be gone during projections. Projection doesn't take place in this information bandwidth.

The deeper you go, the more layers you pull off. You can use Monroe's Focus level model to measure this level of "disconnectedness".

At best it is a series of, much like the many octaves on a piano, but many more. _{It is helpful to remember light is just sped up sound waves.}

Once you can reasonably define where the information is coming from (your surroundings in the astral) then you can more concisely ascertain where you are and look for meaning if you please. Again, its humbling here to empathize with that black ant you saw a couple days ago. Try explaining international politics to him. Could he understand? Or might it be easier just to quickly squash him, let him be, or give him a crumb.

Best on your travels.

Cheers,
Contenteo