OBE just a simple memory???

[Jeff_Mash]

quote:Originally posted by crazy_colombiang
So why do dogs bark at you when you are in the RTZ if its just a reflection?

Animals are much more sensitive to subtle energies that we humans are.  They can also hear things which are inaudible to the human ear.

[James S]

Hi crazy_colombiang,

See if this helps:

first question -
Here's an analogy that might help.

We've skipped ahead a few years in technology.
You're the proud new owner of Acme's VR Remote Hovercam. This flying video camera operates by either direct remote or a pre-programmed flight path, and transmits back into you Acme SenseSurround MKII VR Headset all the sights, sounds, smells and tastes (although the latest firmware release has a small bug that makes everything taste like chicken) it picks up. It also records a full sensor log into your PC using its Windows 2010 software suite that doesn't crash too often providing you have service pack 23 installed and the 12 update patches applied.

It's late on a friday night and you've sent your Hovercam on a pre-programmed tourist route through the Grand Canyon. A short way into the hovercam's journey, the hard work spent over the last few days of reloading Windows 2010 because the critical update patch #13 that automatically uploaded to your PC (after getting past all 40 protection layers of Sygate's 2Hell With Microsoft anti-update firewall) and killed your OS, has finally caught up with you and you drift off to sleep.

While you sleep, the Acme Hovercam still winds it's merry pre-programmed way through the Grand Canyon, stops at a local diner to take a sample of what turns out to be char-grilled chicken with chicken sauce and a side order of chicken, dodges a few rocks, hand grenades and mortar shells thrown at it by the local chapter of the Fundamentalist Church of the Peace Loving Technophobes, then returns back to its little cradle beside your PC and downloads the 20 Terabytes of data it collected on its trip.

Next morning you wake up, put the Headset on and playback the recording of the Hovercams trip, reliving the memories of its journey.

OBEs can be like this. Your consciousness splits in two - the original remaining with your body, the copy travelling through the astral. Sometimes you might not be aware that this mind split has occurred, and that the copy has travelled through the astral, but when the copy merges back with the original, it will "download" the memories of the experience.

Second question -
It is believed that many animals can actually see other realms, as if superimposed onto our physical world. Cats especially seem to have an innate ability to see ghosts. I guess it's because they haven't developed the logical, deductive side of the brain we have, which has largely stifled our abilities to percieve other realities - a seemingly untaught or instinctive ability that we had as small children before we were told what is real and what isn't.

Regards,
James.

[Quiet_Storm]

I had the same question pop up in my head one time.

What crazy columbian is really asking is if we experience the out of body experience, instead of just having recollections of an out of body experience.

Of course.... if they are just memories than OBEs can be accounted for insanities as if your mind is just making memories in your head of OBEs because your mind is filled with ideas of OBEs.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say.... Robert Bruce doesn't explain it well in his book and just describes OBE's as a set of memories that you don't exactly experience... just remember it because it is just a download into your brain.

[holy reality]

i believe we experience them

case in point:

i started floating up out of my body last night and was being drawn out my window, my destination was astral pulse island and I had already envisioned it in my head and was somehow being sucked toward it rather than just phasing

well, I thought to myself "whoah" as I spontaneously started floating up out of my bed and backwards toward the window, no sooner than I thought that, I woke up.

Not into paralysis, I was awake... and moving my body...

now how could it be that a split consciouness could hav occurred if I so directly transitioned from being awake, to floating, to being awake again?

How could that be a fake memory? Even if it was, I perceived it all and experienced it all as if it were real, thus making it no less real than any ordinary daily activity.

So like, I remember typing the above paragraph, but maybe I didn't really do it and someone else or some double did? Does that matter? I still remember doing it first hand...

So what does it matter? If you remember doing something very vividly, it might as well have really happened, and there is no way to know otherwise, right?

[crazy_colombiang]

quote:i started floating up out of my body last night and was being drawn out my window, my destination was astral pulse island and I had already envisioned it in my head and was somehow being sucked toward it rather than just phasing

well, I thought to myself "whoah" as I spontaneously started floating up out of my bed and backwards toward the window, no sooner than I thought that, I woke up.

Not into paralysis, I was awake... and moving my body...

now how could it be that a split consciouness could hav occurred if I so directly transitioned from being awake, to floating, to being awake again?

How could that be a fake memory? Even if it was, I perceived it all and experienced it all as if it were real, thus making it no less real than any ordinary daily activity.

So like, I remember typing the above paragraph, but maybe I didn't really do it and someone else or some double did? Does that matter? I still remember doing it first hand...

So what does it matter? If you remember doing something very vividly, it might as well have really happened, and there is no way to know otherwise, right?

Right, that clears up what i thought it was thanx

[OverDriven]

I really don't want to start a flame war, but take anything you read with a grain of salt.  RB often seems to "guess" his way through what goes on during OBE IMHO.  Alot of his theory's just don't make sense if you really think about it.  So basically what I'm saying is that you don't have to take what RB says as "law".  Your ideas are just as valid a guess as his.

[Jeff_Mash]

quote:Originally posted by OverDriven

I really don't want to start a flame war, but take anything you read with a grain of salt.  RB often seems to "guess" his way through what goes on during OBE IMHO.  Alot of his theory's just don't make sense if you really think about it.  So basically what I'm saying is that you don't have to take what RB says as "law".  Your ideas are just as valid a guess as his.

Yes, I think you bring up a good point.  Even though many of us have had hundreds of OBE's, by all means, don't take our word for things.  The best type of experience is first hand experience.

Unfortunately, many newbies need something to hold onto, and something to believe in when they make their first giant step into the astral. Usually, the only thing I stress is that the person BELIEVE that there is more to life than just the physical body, and that we truly can project our consciousness outside of it.

If you believe in just that and that alone, then you have enough information to build your own theories on what happens when you project into the astral realms.

I see what Robert is doing (as well as myself and all the other projectors out there) as describing different aspects of one great, big mysterious thing.

It would be like describing the ocean.  Robert may say, "Well, from my experience, the ocean is definitely 30 miles deep."

Meanwhile, from MY experience, I may only see that it goes down 10 feet, because I haven't ventured further than that.  Now, is that to say that the ocean is NOT 30 miles deep, as Robert said?  Not necessarilly.  I will continue to search and discover the answer on my own.  

However, I will also use deductive reasoning, and say to myself, "Well, I have verified many other things that Robert had said as truth from my own astral travels, and I do know that the ocean is at least 10 feet deep, so there is a great possibility that it IS at least 30 miles deep."

The thing I do is always give information that *I* have experienced firsthand as truth, in MY eyes, to other people.  Anything else, I keep to myself and not try and pass off as gospel truth until I have seen it with my own two astral eyes!  I don't expect others to accept it as their truth, but I do hope that they investigate my claims for themselves, if anything to verify for themselves that these things exist.

Good post.

[ralphm]

This seems not in line with the mind awake, body asleep concept. Maybe he is talking about the ones that are between mind awake and asleep? I know i have had a few. To me the good ones have a continuity of conciousness from obe to awakening.

[crazy_colombiang]

Im reading ASTRAL DYNAMICS im on page 107 so im not sure if understand it right. yet. From what i have read i think that OBE are just memories. When you do AP and you failed but you succeded you didnt know until the double downloaded the memories into your brain.
So whats the deal? [V]
another question.
On page 103-104 Robert says that when you are in the RTZ "It can be thought of as something like reflections in a mirror. You percieve the real world from inside the mirror. The mirror reflects a real time view a real time view of actual events that are happening in the physical world" So why do dogs bark at you when you are in the RTZ if its just a reflection?
Thank you for your replies[]