Too scary!!

[stephen~]

What about trying some kind of hypnosis, self hypnosis? Something tailor made to your  requirements?

[upstream]

I suppose this is a reply you don't assume to get, moreover, this is not something I like to be involved in, but I think I have to write this. Ok, I'm not attacking you (at least not YOU), but trying to help. You came for help, so you have to be ready for it, whatever form it takes.

I think your fear of sleep comes from the morbidity of your oversized ego. Not to mention other signs, people with great ego can be picked out by their bent for excessive punctuate, and general style of writing. I think you're one of them.

Basically the fear comes from too much thinking and worrying about nonsensical things. You know (your rational mind / ego understand) that you're paralysed while dreaming, but your ego not give up its grip on the subject by keeping you thinking about your fears.

If you prefer, you can regard your ego as an extarnel force come down to feed upon you, or something other troubleshooter from outside. If you like it, ascribe your troubles to a negative astral entities trying to restrain you from your goals.

By doing this you're set apart from your ego or something who try to hinder your progress by generating absourd fears. The main thing is that you have to dissociate it from yourself.

To summarize my first offer, you just have to keep yourself from defending yourself. In the absence of defended their is no attack.

A quicker method for get this done is directly attacking the generator of your fears. You could personalise and project it into the dream state. As you may suspect already, this can be done only in the state of sleep paralysis.

[Eol007]

Hi Fat_Turkey,

I think that Upstream's analysis is a bit stern to be honest, but has elements of truth in it! I would be more economical in my approach!

Obviously you have done your reading on the subject of sleep paralysis. But you are lucky as you have the power of knowledge at your hands. So if you ever do experience this then you have an opportunity to face your fears fair and square. You might say well that is fair enough just saying that! For myself I have had a few episodes of sleep paralysis, but not for some considerable time (we are talking decades). The last significant occasion was some 20 odd years ago and I experienced all the classic symptoms and I was not practicing OBE techniques at the time, although I had done some years earlier during my teens. I did not dwell on the experience overly, although it came to mind on occasion as something I needed to find understanding about! So it took quite some time for me to digest what may have occurred and it was not really until reading about waking paralysis in Robert Bruce's Treatise on Astral Projection about 5 yrs ago that the penny dropped. Which was a great relief as you can imagine. So you are lucky really as you again have the benefit of knowledge in your hands!

I have also have overcome a number of repetitive thought patterns similar to what you are experiencing, but for other underlying issues. You may find benefit in finding relief from this by using a practical method like say Core Image work! Alternatively if you have other sources of stress in your life at this time (or have recently come through a difficult time), then consider a big review of your life style!

Perhaps take up a new sport or something like Chi Gung, or even bongo drumming for instance! Certainly seek something to enable you to let go!!!

Hope this is of some help,


Stephen []

[cube]

All you have to do to project from paralysis is start taking deep breaths until you separate.

If it feels creepy when you're in paralysis, make sure the atmosphere in your bedroom is nice and peaceful. Make sure everything is nice and neat, dark walls are a bad idea in a bedroom. Clean up any clothes laying around and make sure the sheets are freshly washed.

Everything seems a bit magnified when you're in paralysis so if the feel of the room you're in is slightly chaotic when you're awake then it will feel highly chaotic when you are in SP.

[Fat_Turkey]

Thank you all for your support. Upstream, by all means, I am not offended in any way by your post, just a tad bit confused by your use of English [], and very grateful.

This has opened my eyes to start to practice again and to face my fears dead in the eye, by realising that there is nothing to fear in the first place! Thanks everyone, you've really helped.

However...there is only one question left dwelling in my mind. I have often questioned whether or not motives are an issue when it comes to OBE. I want to do it for learning and relaxing in a peaceful environment, but mostly I want to have fun. It has come to light, however, and this is really embarrassing to say, that I have a tiny urge to do something that isn't exactly "good."

What I mean is, whenever I see a film or a documentary on a murderer of some sort, or a rapist, or maybe some high school bullies that were so obsessed over a certain "freak" that they ended up killing him, whenever I see something like that I get this urge. The urge is to go into the astral realm at night and to "walk" into other people's dreams. The dreams of the killers, the people that I feel a need to exact revenge on for their crimes against both me, my friends, and others. When I see things like that or hear of them, I want to walk into the dreams and torment them for tormenting others. I want to show their subconscious what their conscious mind had done. I want to throw their ego into conflict with itself, by showing it all the wrongdoings the person had done and literally putting him/her into the other people's shoes in their dreams.

Of course, I have always looked back and said to myself it was crazy, would never work, childish, and that whatever I did to others would eventually come to bite me back.

So, that being said, are motives really an issue? Does some sort of higher power, or maybe perhaps even myself, try to stop people with ill motives from projecting?

Thanks so much
~FT

[Mustardseed]

Dear FT
Just my little blurp here to add to the thread of counsel you have all ready gotten. I suffered from S.P. for a very long time myself and have had to come to grips with this and it actually sorted itself out.
My observation in that maybe you need to consider that OBEs is at the present time not for you. I realise that might tick a lot of people off but tis is a reality of life and a possibility that you will have to consider. Life is sooooo much more than OBEs and sometimes "real" life is where you need to put your effort. In time it is possible that you will again get the urge to try and maybe you will mature more or have other life experiences that will change your spirit to be more resiliant.

This is not a bad thing at all.Its just life.

Regards Mustardseed

[Eol007]

quote:It has come to light, however, and this is really embarrassing to say, that I have a tiny urge to do something that isn't exactly "good."

What I mean is, whenever I see a film or a documentary on a murderer of some sort, or a rapist, or maybe some high school bullies that were so obsessed over a certain "freak" that they ended up killing him, whenever I see something like that I get this urge. The urge is to go into the astral realm at night and to "walk" into other people's dreams. The dreams of the killers, the people that I feel a need to exact revenge on for their crimes against both me, my friends, and others. When I see things like that or hear of them, I want to walk into the dreams and torment them for tormenting others. I want to show their subconscious what their conscious mind had done. I want to throw their ego into conflict with itself, by showing it all the wrongdoings the person had done and literally putting him/her into the other people's shoes in their dreams.

It seems you may be tending towards the (semi-fictional) Dream Hunter:-

The goal of the dream hunters is to ''plunge into other people's dreams and sleep and from them extract little pieces of Adam-the-precursor's being, composing them into a whole...''

See: Dictionary of the Khazars!

Going into realms of the unbridled imagination then are we then (Ho Hum), but then it could be a simply calling to learn how to weigh the scales of justice in your minds eye! Are you really as young as you say? []

In peace,


Stephen []

[Fat_Turkey]

Yes I am as young as I say. I am 15 years old and in December I turn 16. Why do you want to know?

Thanks once again everyone for their input.

~FT

[Eol007]

quote:Originally posted by Fat_Turkey

Yes I am as young as I say. I am 15 years old and in December I turn 16. Why do you want to know?

Thanks once again everyone for their input.

~FT

Hi FT,

I wasn't asking really, but to add to my previous post... it reminded me of myself (in a terse way) at your age. Living through the height of the Ulster conflict, impending global Armageddon (the cold war for those who remember)... Part of my peer group's escape was sort of more through reading the likes of Chariots of the Gods, Sci-Fantasy... warmly recommend Michael Moorcok books Dancers at the end of time etc.

Oddly it was about your age that I took up my 1st interest in attempting conscious Astral Projection. Your post reminded me as it was 1975 (makes me feel ancient ha ha)!

At the time I had a different barrier to yours, as I had been reading Sylvan Muldoon book (it well may have been an ancient hard back copy of Projection of the Astral Body) as borrowed from the local lending library. I had been flummoxed by his comments on the silver cord. If I can recollect correctly he had said something like the cord would only reach a certain extension, and then the Astral Body would be pulled back to the physical one (at that time most AP books whittered on about this as other authors probably borrowed from his texts anyhow). So somehow this idea prevented me from travelling far at the time and I sort of nearly gave up on my OBE practice. Certainly it suffered and sagnated, but then everyday life issues pulled me away from AProj for a while, as they have occasion to do! []

So in a sense it is easy to allow an idea to germinate which creates false barrier not only in say OBE success, but also in any other type of thinking! So do not have to believe everything you read [].

Anyhow I have muttered on enough for now,

Kind wishes,


Stephen

P.S.

Thinking of Muldoon et all: by the way I recently came across (for pennies) a 2nd hand copy of a beautifully illustrated Time Life book under their Mysteries of the Unknown series entitled 'Psychic Voyages' (3rd reprint 1987) - ISBN 0 7054 06709. Not sure if it is still available? The book is primarily about Astral Projection, but also NDE experiences. The text is a potted history up to that time (only 144 pages), but worth seeking all the same!

[upstream]

I'm glad you got my message, Fat_Turkey and there is no need for apologies. I was straightforward with you because I've been think that your problem require that handle. However, after reading your new posts I realised I was wrong.

I was tought that you are some veteran projector who is taking an ego trip or being under a serious attack. I've come from the point of view that XYZ wishing sweet dreams and purple spiritual smokes, nothing will change. Regarding the lives of astral projectors, your problem seemed to be the most serious (and funny) I was able to imagine.

But you are young and seems not as angry as I expected, so I suppose my ego is bigger than yours. However, assuming that your purpose is clear for you and you got Mustardsead great message, I'm still to think that direct attack would be the best solution.

Fear from SP is very common. It is fearful by physiological reasons, our brain is build in that manner. All of us forced to confront the unknown which inevitably generate fears. I always feel some fear in ASP, and great pressure of the unknown. But I have to go out because I'm already aware of those horizons, great possibilities.

If you would be a kid full of fear (are you?), or a terrified grandma, we would handle you with great care. However, you chosed to expand your consciousness by projecting it into the astral. I was straightforward with you, because I have been (and still have) trust in your choice.

upstream

[Fat_Turkey]

Thank you everybody, especially Upstream and Mustardseed, for fantastic input.

I've never actually been out of body, but have only come close on a few occassions spread over the past two or three years. Of course, "real life" issues have often taken me aback from AP, and I had always come back to it thinking that I had to do some practice again.

Now I have the knowledge, thanks to everybody who replied, that I have only created a false barrier, and now that I know it is false I can break through it by directly "attacking" it. My fear of having a frightful experience such as a sleep paralysis episode involving things like alien abductions, demons, imps, etc. are shortlived. I realise now that the chances of such a thing are unlikely anyways, as I have always come back to OBE with that approach of "Gotta do NEW again," so I've probably done about a year's work of NEW Energy Ways.

Thank you everybody for your input. I think I'll start practicing again now ^__^

~FT

[Mustardseed]

To revive a old thread I have a little thought for you FT, I mean no offence but found this profoundly surprising and felt led to include it here.

Your "destiny" is not entirely "your own", and as such sometimes "fighting" too hard to attain some sort of spiritual state, that you believe to be of benefit towards your spiritual journey, at times becomes exactly the thing that holds you back from reaching your full potential. The solution is in letting go of the trying part and letting the me take over through using your intuition which is your contact with me. There are ways you feed your spirit and ways that your soul is strenghtened. By loving. There is no fear in love becourse perfect love casts out fear, becourse fear has torment. When you fear I am showing you your boundaries, you must be fully convinced in your own mind that you are doing the right thing, before faith can take effect. Love is not a passive thing, for to love and to recieve love requires a lot of the human soul and strenghtenes the very fabric of the spirit, and in time this strenghtening is emulated by the mind into faith. So follow after love, and while you are at it check out patience moderation temperance. This effort will in time change from something you do, to being part of who you are, and as this happens and you realise who you are you will know what you must do to first find and then fulfill your destiny.

[Dorian]

Hello Turk

I have very little room to remark on this subject being so new here, but I feel compelled to offer one tid bit of advice. I have a dastardly little neg here in my bedroom tonight, he attacked my wife earlier today and so now has a  little energy to burn up.  Its kinda scary at times when things get moved around, or he taps on the wall to get my attention, like he, it, whatever... did a few minutes ago (thats why I brought him up) However I think the little guy is wonderful because he fills my world with something new and exciting another part of nature that is as real as any other. I have projected before and never seen anything negative in anyway its always fun fun fun.  The fear adds to the experience, making you come alive, do not be afraid to live, with every fear conquered comes a burst of strength, an empowerment to prepair you for your next challenge, which will make you stronger still.  The next time you feel afraid of anything, reach down into you gut, grit your teeth and thank God these challenges are laid before you, they not only strengthen you (which feels awesome), but they eventually lead you down a path of understanding, compassion, and love for nature and all its many wonders both good and bad, of which you are an intimate part. Believe my when the challenges start to fade the thrill of life fades with it and nothing is darker than the vacuum of emptyness.

[Fat_Turkey]

I've been into astral projection for a long time now, but I've never really gotten out because I am just too afraid.

First, I'll explain the basic fear: I am scared of experiencing something that will scare me. Fear of fear really.

This fear leads me to DESPISE any idea, thought, anything to do with sleep paralysis. It scares me CRAPLESS. The idea of lying paralyzed while my slightest idea becomes a full-fledged PHYSICALLY INTERACTING illusion is just plain FREAKY. Demons on my chest, aliens abducting me, being dragged by unseen hands, imps and colours flying everywhere. NO, THANK YOU!!!

I have realised that if I _do_ get out, and I eventually practice enough to gain control over both exitting and staying out for long periods, the astral is a wonderful environment, and very safe. My body would "call me back," if need be, and I have all the energy and creativity at my fingertips. The problem is that sleep paralysis and some situations put my creativity against me!!

Please, try to help me out of this rut. I am beginning to seriously think that these past few years' worth of research into metaphysics has been in vain, in which I have learnt nothing but basic buddhist-ish philosophy and fear or sleep itself.

The sleep paralysis fear even goes from not only OBE, but sleep itself! I am sometimes afraid to close my eyes in my bed.

Thanks for any feedback
~FT