OBE Study of the The University of Manchester

[Jacques Vabre]

Psychologists at Manchester University are investigating out-of-body experiences.

Participate to the online survey at
www.freeresponse.org/muobe2005/

Article of the Guardian pertaining to the study
http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research/story/0,9865,1555499,00.html

[Boris]

Note the last paragraph:


'through perfectly ordinary psychological processes - these images and experiences may create the impression of seeing their bodies from the outside."

I am already skeptical. This wording says they want to find an ordinary explanation. This means they are starting out with an opening statement that would like to see the paranormal debunked. If that prejudice prevails, this will be just another clueless effort from backward academics.
Nevertheless the survey will be interesting.

[catmeow]

I agree, the study is clearly geared towards finding normal psychological mechanisms for OBE's.  The researchers are after all psychologists not parapsychologists.  They do at least seem to make this clear from the start.  Fair enough....

catmeow

[catmeow]

Thanks MT for the link it looks interesting.  I've mentioned it in the past, but Kenneth Ring's books Mindsight and Lessons from the Light give details of people who were blind from birth yet described extremely detailed visual perceptions during NDE.  Ring also describes acounts of very young children (4 yrs) describing NDE's, seeing the tunnel, meeting deceased, bright light etc. These children obviously being untainted by social conditioning normally used to explain these experiences.  Also accounts of the Life Review where people experience their entire life in an instant together with the emotions of those they affected.  A sort of self-judgement.  There has to be something in this.  I'll read your link with interest.

catmeow

[David Warner]

MajorTom,

Thank YOu for posting that information on the NDE. I've always have been fascinated about NDE and the correlation that it has towards OBE's.

What is interesting that Catmeow said about NDe patient that are blind, or children that haven't been tainted by society's beliefs/structure and have heard about symptoms of the NDE.

I wonder in their studies what was the longest duration of a NDE. Would it have been 5 minutes, 10mins, 15mins?

Tvos

[Aerotus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4177912.stm

Geez, these clowns don't even have the first idea about OBEs!! Its amazing how ignorant people are and I find their clutching at straws theories utterly bemusing.

[catmeow]

Hey Tvos, this is Kenneth Ring's book

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966963008/qid%3D1125235099/002-2363555-2325608

I can't remember what the longest experience described was, but certainly more than a few minutes.  Apart from the extremeley detailed, panoramic, visual-like perceptions of people with no experience of sight, (blind from birth) there was veridical information returned which NDE'rs couldn't have known, for example one NDE'r described the colour and design of a tie he was wearing which a friend had bought him.  I think another described a shoe trapped in the gutter on the roof of the hospital she was in.  But perhaps the most extraordinary is the Life Review which is a common experience and consists of a panoramic replay (in an instant) of the NDE'rs life together with all the emotions they felt and the emotions of others caused by the the impact of their actions.

Aerotus - I find it incredible that the researchers at Manchester University say:

There were early theories which looked at whether something actually physically left the body, like consciousness, but there's no real scientific evidence for that.

If the quote is accurate then this researcher assumes that "consciousness" is a "physical" thing.  Quite incredible, and with reasoning like this we have to doubt this researcher's intellectual fitness to do the study.   Also there is plenty of evidence in the form of third parties observing a "projected" person and also of OBE'rs themselves being aware of things which they could not see physically.  So we should assume that consciousness does leave the body, since this is the simplest explanation, and according to Occam's Razor the researchers require to prove that it doesn't, and that is clearly their intention.

But apparently OBE'rs are socially inept with a poor self-image and that's why we all hallucinate these things:

They tend to have increased social anxiety, to be uncomfortable about their body being scrutinised by others and dissatisfied with their bodies, and they tend to get immersed and absorbed in things very easily.

I'll have to stop walking around the beach to hide my obviously scrawny body and stop going to pubs and being seen in public....

catmeow

[David Warner]

Catmeow,

Thank You for the link on Mindsight. Now, that's something new I haven't read or thought about blind people. Hearing what the blind say about their NDE and out of body experiences is very interesting!

Major Tom,

Btw, I did take the OBE test. The test actually dragged on a bit during the questionnaire's, but towards the end it opened up on oobe. Most of the earlier questions were tailored to as an example: If you take a ink pen from someones desk, that's ok - True/False, or when you're at work, its okay to borrow someones ink pen and not return it. It almost gave me the impression of a evaluation on psychiatric.

Tvos

[catmeow]

Tvos that's interesting what you say about the questionnaire. So these guys are obviously trying to find a psychological "type" who tend to have OBE's and if they establish that "type" they will then try to pin down the whole experience as a psychological aberration/hallucination which certain psychological profiles are predisposed to.  Not only that, but once they publish their study no doubt they'll spread the word that OBE's are simply an escape mechanism caused by an unstable psychological profile and poor self-image.  Research departments have to make names for themselves.  You see if I'm wrong....!  

[David Warner]

Catmeow,

Yeah, I figured what would it hurt by exercising their study and research. I agree with you a 100% about their study of oobe being a psychological aberration/hallucination. But the one problem that their study won't be able to resolve is how "people" are able to verify targets, NDE's oobe's verifications.

Just my thoughts and feelings on the study was geared towards thought provoking tricky questions. Repetitive and re-wording of the same questions. I do understand where they are coming from and how they would like to conduct the research. But honestly, my take on it was trying to find a pattern in psychological problems using oobe as a escape goat.

Tvos

[Boris]

Yes, cat meow, and if they do that study showing what's wrong with people who think OBEs are real, we should do a study to find the psychological profile of mentally retarded scientists and academics, and their inability to deal with new ideas.

I already have some idea of the personality problems of these people. It has to do with the inability to absorb evidence and evaluate it.
Also big mental blocks about vested interest in areas where the have spent a lot of their academic life.

[catmeow]

Boris, Tvos - no arguments from me...!  lol  

[catmeow]

You know, I wish my mother was still alive, as I mentioned before on another thread I used to hypnotise her and tell her to "travel in her mind" to another room in the house.  I used to set up scenes and get her to describe them. She was always spot on (and I was careful not to use leading questions). I reckon I could have taken Randi's $1 million except I know it wouldn't work when he was around.  I could take her off to Manchester Uni and show those geeks a thing or two...

catmeow

[David Warner]

Major Tom,

You always are better with explaining then I am..:) I agree with what you said about the separate pathological forms of dissociation (OBEs) from the non pathological ones.

What would be nice is if we could have our own questionnaire in the astral pulse. I've asked Frank a few times and he was interested, but when I supplied him with the questionnaires it never made it to light.

Tvos