Simple question that has been puzzling me

[iamkuljuarenot]

So my question is, when I have a lucid dream it lasts for a very, very short time, literally I become lucid, i can do some stuff then it fades away, its like my awareness of it is what kills it.  Anyway, when I had my first and only OBE a couple of months ago, it happened like this.  I was having a dream in which i realized and became lucid, and knowing that they don't usually last very long I was going to try and have an out of body experience.  The way it worked for me is when my lucid dreams fade away I always end up being vaguely awake, like the lucid dream wakes me up but I am still very much in a dreamlike state.  So, I "rolled" out of my body when I got to this point and for whatever reason my OBE seemed to last FOREVER.  Granted a little of the way through it my awareness shifted slightly so that it wasn't as clear but still very lucid, and I have no doubt that it was an OBE because I remember clear as day that i was running down my parking lot trying to fly, all the while still being aware that I am safe and my body is still in my bed. Anyway I've done enough rambling, but i just don't get why this experience lasted so friggin long and i loved it, and why my lucid dreams always fade away, nothing I do helps me retain clarity.  When I had my OBE it seemed like waking reality and i didn't have to do anything to retain clarity, i was just there.

[iamkuljuarenot]

thx

[Taoistguy]

Seems that nobody knows the answer to your question. I too have many questions that remain unanswered. But sometimes I get opinions on some of my questions. I guess it's up to you to find out for yourself and maybe when someone has an answer they can tell you; or if you find the answer, you can tell us.
I myself am just resigned to finding out things for myself. I aim to share any discoveries or truths I happen upon.

[AlanRK]

I can speculate that lucid dreams are very emotionally-charged with excitement and other thoughts, so when you wake up in them the excitement can return you back to body quite quickly. Lucid dreams also contain a lot of subconscious influences which = lots of variables. A straightforward OBE wherein you separate from your body tends to be more stable. I don't know why, but these are my speculations. What is known, though, is that with more awareness, clarity, control, you can stay out of body and in lucid dreams for longer and have much more controlled, conscious and rewarding experiences.

[personalreality]

so the easy answer is spend more time in meditation learning to maintain singular focus.  learn to observe the emotion and not react to it.

that coupled with practice (trial and error) in LDs.

[Xanth]

I can speculate that lucid dreams are very emotionally-charged with excitement and other thoughts, so when you wake up in them the excitement can return you back to body quite quickly. Lucid dreams also contain a lot of subconscious influences which = lots of variables. A straightforward OBE wherein you separate from your body tends to be more stable. I don't know why, but these are my speculations. What is known, though, is that with more awareness, clarity, control, you can stay out of body and in lucid dreams for longer and have much more controlled, conscious and rewarding experiences.

I surmise that if you separate from a conscious exit OBE, you've already got your thoughts and emotions well under control.  So the randomness factor is severely reduced.
With a Lucid Dream, if you're not used to having lucid dreams, as you said, there will be a greater occurrence of that randomness factor due to excitement and other variables.

Just a thought. 

[iamkuljuarenot]

hmmm, thats interesting how an obe would be a more stable level of focus considering i was tickled pink when i got out of body for the first time lol, in lucid dreams i sometimes think, boy i don't want this to end, and sometimes that ends it, but in my obe i thought whatever i wanted and my focus never faultered.  thanks for the replies by the way because i don't understand it at all.

[AlanRK]

Don't forget you can train yourself so that your lucid dreams are just as controlled and conscious as a direct OBE. It only takes a bit of practise and experience. Remember to always keep fighting for more control and more clarity with each experience, and you'll gain more and more each time.

[iamkuljuarenot]

I realize that it can be controlled but this was my first OBE ever and I was in control of everything, thought had no influence whatsoever in the clarity or length of my OBE but for my lucid dreams its the opposite.

[Xanth]

I realize that it can be controlled but this was my first OBE ever and I was in control of everything, thought had no influence whatsoever in the clarity or length of my OBE but for my lucid dreams its the opposite.

It's your experience... you *can* have full and complete control over it. 

[CFTraveler]

So my question is, when I have a lucid dream it lasts for a very, very short time, literally I become lucid, i can do some stuff then it fades away, its like my awareness of it is what kills it.  Anyway, when I had my first and only OBE a couple of months ago, it happened like this.  I was having a dream in which i realized and became lucid, and knowing that they don't usually last very long I was going to try and have an out of body experience.  The way it worked for me is when my lucid dreams fade away I always end up being vaguely awake, like the lucid dream wakes me up but I am still very much in a dreamlike state.  So, I "rolled" out of my body when I got to this point and for whatever reason my OBE seemed to last FOREVER.  Granted a little of the way through it my awareness shifted slightly so that it wasn't as clear but still very lucid, and I have no doubt that it was an OBE because I remember clear as day that i was running down my parking lot trying to fly, all the while still being aware that I am safe and my body is still in my bed. Anyway I've done enough rambling, but i just don't get why this experience lasted so friggin long and i loved it, and why my lucid dreams always fade away, nothing I do helps me retain clarity.  When I had my OBE it seemed like waking reality and i didn't have to do anything to retain clarity, i was just there.

I didn't see this before, and I don't know if my answer is going to be helpful.

Usually, in a normal sleeping pattern, lucidity comes normally at the end of the rem cycle.  It's what usually makes you wake up naturally.  (Besides extraneous stimulus, of course.)  You could say that normally your conscious mind becomes active and you wake up.  This is why you usually remember the last dream you had right before waking up, while you have many dream for the first three hours but don't remember them all.
Most of the time spontaneous lucidity (that is, not created by training) happens when you become aware a little before the customary time, and you have a little more time to experience this self awareness before waking up.  The experience is usually short because you were going to wake up eventually.  This usually happens at the end of the fourth hour in the cycle.
Now, you had a lucid dream and then went back to trance and had an OBE.  This put you in a different brain state (possibly back to delta) and then were able to have more time to explore.  So you could say you went over the 'hump' of the wakeup time back to theta and delta, and were able to extend the experience.

The only advice I can offer (which is prob. what pr said, I didn't read all the posts) is to have a discipline to LD or OBE, which will then trigger lucidity at an earlier time in the cycle, giving you more 'liminal' time in which to practice, or practice phasing or OBE from a conscious state.

[iamkuljuarenot]

Thank you for the reply CFTraveler that makes perfect sense I never really thought about that before.