The Astral Pulse

Hello All,

I am relatively inexperienced when it comes to astral projection however I have have had several projections per the very vague defnition. I am still working on validations and have yet to validate the experience in a way that would connect what I experience to the waking (objective) world that we all experience.

I was talking to my borther in law today and he was telling me about the "One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge" by James Randi and it seems odd that out of all of the people who claim to have validated astral projection and remote viewing, nobody has claimed the one million dollars. I would expect that Robert Bruce or one of the big names would have already raked in the cash however according to the website:

QuoteAll tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the "applicant" becomes a "claimant."

To date, no one has passed the preliminary tests.

This leads me to believe that astral projection is not reproducable in a consistent and systematic manner and is rarely taking place in the real timezone.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

Any thoughts?

Yeah I know about that.
I wonder why no one managed to get the 1 million.
One guy who claimed that he could read baby minds was tested by James Randi.
But he failed ...

But personally, I wish Astral Projection is real.
And if it wasn't, what you see and feel is nice anyway, so why not enjoy that.
But I really wish it's real.

I was never able to project.
I hope someday I will ...

If we remind us that thoughts are energy, than
this guy is destroying what he desires. He has a very
strong believe system which doesnt allow any paranormal,
and as such are his thoughts.

Its like the girl from russia that can see through bodys and
detect deseases. When she was tested, she couldnt do it like
she´s doing it at home...i believe that strong negative thoughts
can disturb and destroy any try in this fine "chemistry" of the astral.

Remember it is near impossible to prove that while you were observed to be laying on a bed with your eyes closed, you were travelling around the countryside in your astral subtle body. Science is not able to quantify nor record such things yet, so that Million is safe for now.

They decide what is 'paranormal', and they decide what constitutes 'proof'.

If I said grass is paranormal and made a million-dollar challenge for proof of 'grass', people left and right might bring in patches of grass as 'proof' but I could say 'those are fake' or 'thin leaves from a tree' or I'd say 'little green things sprouting from the ground don't count as grass'.

It's a little game of semantics.

I read up on the challenge years ago, it's been around for some time. It would not be practical to even enter with the idea to prove to them you can get out of body, even if you've been able to do it for a while. There are times when I can get out almost daily (my record I believe is 4 days in a row). Then there are periods where Im lucky to get out once in two weeks. There seems as I mentioned before to be some limiting factor that deals with bodily chemicals that may be responsible for the seperation to take place, and it's too unpredictable. Let's say you did manage to get out, but you end up in another place and time. Which happens to me one out of every 2 exits, then there would be no way to conduct the test or read whatever random things they wrote down and hid a mile away. The whole thing would be impractical. I doubt they would have the patience involved, and I doubt anyone of us would have the money or time to take an extended vacation heh. This challenge is more geared torwards the people who claim psychokinetic/telekinetic abilities. He believes that by issuing the challenge and saying I have a million dollars to give you if you succeed, that he can then announce he disproved the paranormal because afterall, if someone did exist who could do these things then surely they would collect the money. The everybody wants money thing. However it seems to be guilt by association, it's not really a scientific thing on his part to claim the paranormal does not exist just because no one has claimed the money.

I wonder if they would accept EVP's as an entry to the contest. There exists a ton of data to support the reality of EVP's. Anyway what I really wonder is this. Did Randi put up his own money? If not was it raised from a third party? If so what about the interest that is gained on the 1 million sitting in the bank, does randi have access and ownership of all the interest earned? If he did then he would have a conflict of interest of the entire outcome as he would not want to give up the extra income due to the interest earned. At any rate I never took James Randi seriously, it just seemed to be a publicity stunt on his part that just hasn't went away.

Astral projection doesn't really break any physical laws so it can't be studied scientifically. The best would be gaining some knowledge you didn't know ahead of time, but how you got the knowledge could only be speculated and theorized. Having people from all walks of life claiming the reality of it through self experience would be better.

The guys behind this challenge never had any intention of giving away a million dollars, so they probably have none of this supposed money to begin with.

I haven't read enough to know what their motives are (do they make money off this?) but they've probably got lawyers ready in case someone insists they've proven a phenomenon James considers to be paranormal.

As far as I can tell it's legit. I read the site and agreements.

I think astral projection should be provable, if it is real. If you can prove to yourself that it is real, you can also prove it to others. The problem is, most people think it's real because "It looks and feels so real". Unfortunately if you believe it is real just from this statement, you are only fooling yourself.

I agree that it isn't possible to just project any time, any place and go and validate. But you could set something up where time is not a factor. Also, if you read the site, it says that the participant makes up his own criteria for the test.

Anyone who says astral projection is not provable, also cannot not prove it to themselves.

Quote from: Lighten on June 10, 2009, 02:21:01
As far as I can tell it's legit. I read the site and agreements.

http://www.naturalnews.com/025627.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw_O9Qiwqew   Get to the last part.
http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/New/Examskeptics/skepticism_suppressedscience.html


A possible reason why R. didn't want to test Radin.
http://deanradin.blogspot.com/2008/12/will-to-disbelieve.html

After looking at this- do you think having 'fair' rules is the same as following them?

QuoteI think astral projection should be provable, if it is real. If you can prove to yourself that it is real, you can also prove it to others. The problem is, most people think it's real because "It looks and feels so real". Unfortunately if you believe it is real just from this statement, you are only fooling yourself.

I agree that it isn't possible to just project any time, any place and go and validate. But you could set something up where time is not a factor. Also, if you read the site, it says that the participant makes up his own criteria for the test.

Anyone who says astral projection is not provable, also cannot not prove it to themselves.

Au Contraire.  I know it's real because I've received validations that I couldn't prove to others.  So I just think you have decided to set a series of parameters that are impossible to cover (because validations are done in the RTZ, and most of the time we don't know if we're in the astral or etheric (RTZ) and then use them to measure something that just isn't measurable that way.

Be that as it may, it's obvious to me that you made up your mind a long time before this post was made.

what? If you can validate for yourself, you can validate for others. Don't you understand that? Why don't you put on your thinking cap and do some thinking.

No Lighten.
If someone comes into my vision and tells me how a cardiac procedure will be done, and then it's invented a month later, it's a validation for me, because I'm not a heart surgeon (or a doctor, or anything)- but it's not a validation for you, because you don't have to believe me.

QuoteDon't you understand that? Why don't you put on your thinking cap and do some thinking.

Wow!  Disrespectful and opinionated.

Oh btw. if anyone validates for me more than once, i will give them 500$. There is no way i can guarantee this, but you have my word.

I've had instances where I had good proof for myself, but there is no way I could prove it to anyone else. Especially after the fact. It's not like I was trying to validate anything at the time. It happens by accident.

I think that anyone who has spent enough time astral will begin to understand the difficulty in any kind of physical proof. Giving someone else proof is showing them how to prove it to themselves.

So this confirms for me "at the moment" that what I was thinking is true. A big percentage of AP happens outside of the real timezone and it's very hard to consistently get out of body in the first place.

I would like to have more control over the experience but it seems that I must have more experience to gain control. Astral Dynamics is very good so far and I like what I am reading. I think I might be able to build up to a decent success rate over time by learning Bruce's system and building on it, but only time and practice will tell.

I tend to agree with Panthau, I think intention has a huge effect over the outcome and when you have millions of people believing you will fail it will prob happen.

You can study the skills of the masters for years, but it takes a ridiculous amount of repetitive experiences to adapt it into your being/subconscious. Like with anything a person wants to master.

Go ahead Stookie, post one more reply. I know you want that 2000 post milestone.

Not only does practice help, but it causes you to evolve, forcing you to adapt to doing things differently.  Which throws another variable in the works.

*Ok Stookie, you can do it!!!*

I have great respect for James Randi. He's a real skeptic. Although the one million dollar challenge is the thing he's most famous for, what he's really trying to do, and what most of his books have been about, is to get people to realize that no one should trust anyone. He's trying to get people to wake up and stop being sheep. Check out the video "James Randi: The Search for the Chimera". It's been over a year since I've watched it but from what i remember, a majority of it was about how people shouldn't trust the government, or anything for that matter; that no one ever knows what to expect, and that our 5 senses aren't really all that great, and shouldn't be trusted.

This million dollar challenge has completely skewed his image, making him seem close minded. He is not close minded. He never rules out the possibility that paranormal phenomena exists. His main goal is to keep people from believing everything they see in the media and on television. People who take everything with a grain of salt are the people who are contributing to the overall devolution of humanity, and he's trying to stop that. The whole "debunking paranormal phenomena" is of the least of his priorities.

Part of being a skeptic is being skeptical of what you already believe to be true, and what you believe to be "fact". Everything you know could be wrong, and this is James Randi's real message.

Well said Envix.

And I didn't even realize it until dbmathis mentioned it, so taking a cue from PurplAstrlMagma, here goes:

Gotta do better than that Stookie 8-)

My post has a useful graphic to indicate what level of awesome exposure you  hazard as a function of your proximity to it, and I am only on 406! I expect better from you come 2500!

LOL!

Quote from: dbmathis on June 07, 2009, 16:22:43
This leads me to believe that astral projection is not reproducable in a consistent and systematic manner and is rarely taking place in the real timezone.

The amazing Randi is more like an amazing windbag in reality.  I have seen him back away from several different challenges for his million dollars, once he himself realized that he was probably going to lose it (talking about after he had already met with these people, set up conditions for the experiment, run test trials, etc.).  Not for astral projection, per se, but for other "psychic" phenomena.  I could come back with links, etc. if anyone is interested.

QuoteThis leads me to believe that astral projection is not reproducable in a consistent and systematic manner and is rarely taking place in the real timezone.

I could be either dead wrong, dead right to dead in between. I would just like to see someone get some credit every once in a while, that's all. I see an evolutionary path here, but until people start seriously considering paranormal stuff as being real and legit, here we will remain stuck in the stone age.

QuoteThe amazing Randi is more like an amazing windbag in reality.  I have seen him back away from several different challenges for his million dollars, once he himself realized that he was probably going to lose it (talking about after he had already met with these people, set up conditions for the experiment, run test trials, etc.).  Not for astral projection, per se, but for other "psychic" phenomena.  I could come back with links, etc. if anyone is interested.

From what I have read secondhand, and gleaned from the "rulebook" which Randi provides, the challenge is basically open to the set which includes everyone except anyone, and you can win it, except when you can't, which is at the complete discretion of their comitee. So you can win $1,000,000, provided Randi wants to give it to you.

I would be interested in reading your links, should be grade-A comedy  :wink:

Randi Backs Out of Challenge with Homeopath George Vithoulkas

QuoteAll seemed to be going well when in August 2006, Vithoulkas received a signed agreement from Randi in which he stated that he was satisfied with the suggested protocol. He also waived the need for a preliminary test - the part of the process that had foiled every applicant up to that point. However Randi then delayed the start of the experiment owing to health problems and lack of sufficient funding. Apparently Randi was asked by Vithoulkas to assign a representative in his absence while funding was being sought but Randi refused to do so. He also told the homeopaths that he needed 6 months to recuperate from his unspecified health problems.

This 6 month period, according to Vithoulkas, was critical. It coincided with the appointment of a new Mayor of Athens who installed a new chairman of the scientific committee and a new president of the hospital that was to be used for the experiment. Vithoulkas claims that Randi knew of theses impending changes and was looking for a way of getting out of the challenge. It certainly was the most rigorous and well organized attempt to win the one million dollars that had ever been attempted. The Homeopaths believe that Randi got cold feet for this reason.

After a further 2 years of negotiating with the new authorities, the Homeopaths finally got the go ahead in Athens and started putting the final touches to the arrangements. In September 2008, a two day meeting was held in Greece between two of Randi`s representatives, plus Dr. Menachem Oberbaum, principal investigator of the experiment, and George Vithoulkas.

After this meeting the homeopaths thought everything was ready to go ahead but they were in for a rude surprise. In October 2008, one month after the meeting, they received the following communication from Randi:

"Forget all previous correspondence exchanged on the subject. What appears here is the current status. First, we require that George Vithoulkas submit a regular, properly-filled-out application and submit it just as we require everyone to do. After that has been received, we`ll go ahead as with any regular applicant - with the arrangements, including the requirement for the preliminary stage".

This new turn of events understandably infuriated Vithoulkas after his 5 years of toil. To make matters worse, Randi, according to Vithoulkas, claimed on his website (www.randi.org) that the homeopaths had withdrawn from the experiment. This accusation is strenuously denied by Vithoulkas.

http://www.naturalnews.com/025627.html

This is the first I've heard of it.  The problem that I have is that I cannot OBE or astral project at will.  I can only have the experience when I have fallen into the sleep-paralysis state.  Now, if there is some way that I can be put into the sleep-paralysis state, h*ll, I'd be more than happy to prove it.  As a matter of fact, my ex can do it much easier than me.  He might be able to do it.  I just might have to look into this...

Quote from: CFTraveler on June 10, 2009, 10:20:53
http://www.naturalnews.com/025627.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw_O9Qiwqew   Get to the last part.
http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/New/Examskeptics/skepticism_suppressedscience.html


A possible reason why R. didn't want to test Radin.
http://deanradin.blogspot.com/2008/12/will-to-disbelieve.html

After looking at this- do you think having 'fair' rules is the same as following them?
  Au Contraire.  I know it's real because I've received validations that I couldn't prove to others.  So I just think you have decided to set a series of parameters that are impossible to cover (because validations are done in the RTZ, and most of the time we don't know if we're in the astral or etheric (RTZ) and then use them to measure something that just isn't measurable that way.

Be that as it may, it's obvious to me that you made up your mind a long time before this post was made.

CFTraveler, you are so right.  My ex and I proved to each other that it is real.  He showed up in my OBE one night.  He was in the form of a dark shadowy figure.  I recognized his silhouette---especially that of his hair!  I flew past him on the stairs the first time, and then the second time I decided to fly straight threw him.  He came over a few days later and asked if I had seen him.  I was ecstatic!  I said, "Yes!  I knew it was you."  He then went on to say that at one time, our heads collided with each other.  Again, I was amazed!  I told him our heads had collided when I flew straight threw him because I past threw him from the neck up.  And I have other stories that validate my experiences.

Well, gee whiz, no wonder no one has agreed to do it.  Have you guys read all the conditions and terms that must be agreed upon?  A lot of these conditions are ridiculous, such as you have to have a "media presence", or in other words, you must have been written about by the media.  I mean, come on.  And you have to provide your own transportation costs, etc.  Oh, and no use of illicit drugs.  My ex can have his experiences much easier after smoking pot. 

Now I can see why no one has taken up the challenge.  The foundation has written up so many terms and conditions that it practically assures its self that no one will fit every little criteria expected of him or her.  Boy, what a waste of time...

UmmaGumma, I tend to agree that it might be a waste of time, however if someone is good enough at entering a trance and then projecting into the RTZ, it seems like it should be easy enough to prove. Then again people would most likely blow it off as some cheap magicians trick or something.

It really boils down to proving it to yourself and then don't stress about the others. Has James Randi even tried to AP himself is the question we should be asking?

I mean proving it to someone else serves no purpose other than to put the human race on a evolutionary path worth being on. :), but I doubt I will be able to make a difference by showing others what I can do (the magician trick thing above). Instead it might be more productive to simply motivate people to try for themselves but this would require a serious change in belief systems. I live in the U.S. and a problem that I see around me are people who are brainwashed by either science or religion. I am lucky that I live in Austin and people here actually question things, but out of the other 17 states I have been in most people gravitate to one or the other and rarely ask questions, think outside the box or step outside their comfort level.

Maybe that should be a new goal of mine, to travel around the world and question everything and be a motivational speaker on AP.