Physiological Connections to OBEs

[Synergy]

As anyone who has had a real OBE, I can attest to the reality of the experience... it'[s just NOT a hallucination, and though I can not explain to someone who has not had the experience just how I know... only that I do know!

But I do believe there are physiological 'links' as it were to the induction of OBEs.  To date, two parts of the brain which act upon spatial awareness and self (including vestibular sensory input such as floating, flying, etc), and visual input have been isolated as being connected with OBEs.  Oddly enough these two areas of the brain were only found to have this link because of patients with neurological disorders such as epilepsy and migraines, and narcolepsy. 

These two areas are the temporoparietal junction TPJ, and the angular gyrus.  We have all by now read about the epileptic patient who described an OBE while they were stimulating parts of her brain in order to isolate where her seizures were coming from.  This area was the angular gyrus. ( http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/19/coolsc.outofbody/ )  And the other area is the temporoparietal junction ( http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/abstract/25/3/550 ) 

My personal beliefs on these are that while these areas must contribute to the induction of an OBE, the OBE is not a self contained hallucinatory experience.  I prefer to subscribe to the group who believe these parts of the brain must trigger the OBE and in some way control the link to the physical while we are out, but something definately does leave the body.  Neuroscientists can not disprove it either! 

I was just wondering what others think about the suggestion by the medical community that OBEs are just hallucinatory illusions created by our brains... or rather by our 'disfunctioning' TPJ or angular gyrus!? 

Other related medical physiological causes: Autoscopy, Dissociation, Hypnagogic/hypnapompic hallucinations, Sleep Paralysis, Narcolepsy etc.

It would be great though if they could isolate which parts of the brain caused an OBE to occur, and then create a way for us to be able to induce them at will easily... like fasten an electrode to a particular part of the head and when stimulated it will cause an OBE.

[David Warner]

Synergy,

Welcome to Astral Pulse, its nice to have you here and your expertise will be a blessing!

Science and the Medical community can dismiss OBE's as a hallucinatory experience all they want. But what science and medical can't give is the reason why 'we' are able to validate our experiences, if its thru the obe or nde. There will always be argument between science & religion/spirituality of life after death.

If scientists can't take the time to do the work, achieve a obe awareness, validate, have experience and faith in a higher power how can it be justified as a hallucinatory experience?
The greatist proof to date is the experiencer executing, recording their own tests, not someone else from a control room.

I don't know if there is a area in the brain that can be tapped into to produce the obe or not.

Tvos

[Synergy]

I would actually volunteer to be a gunea pig for an experiment where they could stimulate those exact parts of my brain to trigger what these people were describing to be OBEs.  Since I have had spontaneous OBEs, I can then compare the two.  It's possible that what these people were describing were not an actual OBE but were maybe an experience that mimics the feeling of an OBE.  It would take someone who has spontaneous OBEs to make the comparison.  I don't think they will just experiment on healthy people though, since I think those operations with the electrodes involved in open cranial surgery

[David Warner]

I read that article awhile ago and posted to this group and we had a nice discussion on patients and medical probing the brain for this type of activity. A patient then describes symptoms of a obe. My question is that did this patient every experience a full blown OBE w/o the aid of these electrodes? If not, how can you compare the two - ya can't!

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/index.php?topic=22481.0

Anyways, many of the patients were diagnosed with eplespy and would have seizures.

Tvos

[leswan]

I suffer from migraine and have done from the age of about 12.

I've been having spontaneous OBE's for the past 3 months (basically, since I became interested in the subject and began trying for them). I also recall as a child having some very vivid OBE-like expereiences.

Does anybody else here suffer from migraine?

Incidentally, during my last migraine, I found that NEW Energy Ways excercises had a small but welcome effect in reducing the severity of the attck.

[skropenfield]

how can you compare the two - ya can't!

Not correct, you can compare. Engage in the room where are practiced OBEs one or several CLAIRVOYANTS. Let them observe the whole process and let them ascertain- is the projecting entity leaving  physical body??? Inaccurate wordings may be very confusing. Maybe the right question concerning the Blankes patient was not "has she real OBE?" but "was the projecting entity leaving physical body at least for short time and stream of consciousness switching from brain to astral body at least partially?" Keeping in mind some details which Olaf Blanke dared not publish in Nature very probably YES!!!

I would actually volunteer to be a gunea pig for an experiment where they could stimulate those exact parts of my brain to trigger what these people were describing to be OBEs

Very laudatory intention. Direct electrical stimulation (of cortex) naturally is nonsense. Let us repeat how can you REALLY make a guinea pig from you self. Maybe the only possibility is a NEW DESIGN of transcranial magnetic stimulation device. Don't have illusions – you must create conditions more or less close to partial seizures (vibrations). Take a rotating supermagnet. The right and accurate tactics maybe consist in- reach first indubitable symptoms (the famous micropsia, macropsia, falling sensation, floating sensation, flying sensation or in some cases the above-mentioned vibrations, etc.) and hold on the device a few seconds with ensuing sufficiently persistent inhibition in TPJ. Find out the optimum focus. Don't naïve expect an automatically imposed "full blown" OBE even under protest.  Rather at one time or another THE GETTING AWAY (FROM PHYSICAL BODY) WILL BECOME SHOCKING EASY.

Don't have illusions- all successful OBE techniques, meditation techniques are connected with inhibition in certain part of cortex, see  Dr. James Austin  Zen and the Brain.

By looking over a bit larger statistics one can find out also "full blown" OBEs, Devinsky O, Feldman E, Burrowes K: Autoscopic phenomena with seizures. Arch Neurol 1989. Vuilleumier, Despland, Assal, and Regli 1997 . Héautoscopie, extase et hallucinations expérientielles d'origine épileptique. Revue Neurologique.