people who die for like 5 minutes, but come back with no memory of a NDE or OBE

[bjb1234]

Hey,

Ive heard abit about NDE and i know there is thousands and thousands of cases that happen around the world every year.

You know when somebodys heart stops for like 5 minutes and they get brought back to life.

Some of them DONT remember anything like  NDE or a OBE, does anyone more educated on the matter have any explanation to this or theory?  I am still a begginer in this business.

You guys are the best, cheers!!!!!

[jub jub]

That's a good question and I don't think you will find a definitive answer.

I suppose one answer might be that when you die, that's it, finished, nada, nothing. As far as the people that recount an experience, it's usually explained as just a function of a dying brain. Scientists have been able to simulate NDE events in the lab by stimulating parts of the brain. Of course that doesn't explain the instances where people have died and have reported events which could have only been known by their being present at the time. So one still has to wonder and the great mystery lingers on.

[bjb1234]

Thats true i guess, yet again, some people say we have projections every night, yet we dont remember them...

Or maybe, there body never fully died, like if there heart stopped, but rest of there body wasnt fully gone yet...

There conscienness may take longer to shift sometimes...  Like when there brain gets to a certain bonked up stage, thats when conscienness realises this body aint for me no more, and shifts... 

Or maybe they just dont remember when it comes back to body...

Who knows i guess, but id hate to think that we dont die and its over lol  Its a scary thought.

[cobalt]

Maybe this is a little more related to consciousnes, not NDE but, people who have been under full anesthesia dont recall a thing either. Its wierd, because you might thinks its something like going to sleep, but as i have been told its like, you get connected to the thing, and you dont feel any sleepy, nothing at all, at one point after you get "plugged" to the system you just realize its already the next day after operation, in a different place. No blacking out, no waking up, just missing piecie.

[manuel]

Scientists have been able to simulate NDE events in the lab by stimulating parts of the brain.

They have? I cant seem to recall any experiment like that.

[bjb1234]

^^^^^
I havnt seen anything about that either, especially not on the big foundations websites ive seen on who spend there lives researching OBE and NDE

But that would mean, we could induce an OBE with equipment?

Nah i dont believe they have done, but im sure its possible...

[Milkdrops]

I think an example of a type of NDE experiment is when astronaughts go into those Centrifuge machines, you know the ones that are designed for their training to induce extreme G force. Its that thing you sit in that goes around in circles VERY fast incase your still not sure.

During times when the occupant of the Centrifuge has blacked out, many of them have reported NDE type symptoms such as being out of their body and looking down. Although they are not dead it could be argued that their conciousness is elsewhere to kind of protect themselves until they recover. Not all of the common NDE factors are there but some and while this procedure is by no means an official experiment to monitor NDE's its something that seems to be reported.

[bjb1234]

Funny enough, you mentioned NASA...

There is this dude, i heard some videos well audio clips on youtube from this guy who used to work at NASA he was a big guy there, dont know what he did, but he was very very educated.  He had been having OBEs since he was a child and remembering them, and he quit his job with NASA to write his book and research OBEs.

I forgot his name, but i remember he was black and had a really well high pitch soft kinda voice.

You guys might have seen him somewhere. 

[T.L.]

Yes neurologists in a different country were able to replicate obe symptons in patients by stimulating a portions of their brains with a small amount of emp. Thats real Ive seen some of the papers on it. But just because it can be replicated doesnt mean its not real. There are a lot of things that can be duplicated in other ways but it doesnt make them any less real. Regards,
                                                                             T.L.

[bjb1234]

Well, maybe there will be ways to be able to induce OBEs.  Infact if they ever come up with a pill or any sort of devise which will make you like instantly have a OBE that would be cool i would deffo buy one.

Yet again, would they really want the masses doing this and talking about it etc...  It would change everybodys opinions and outlook on everything.

[Milkdrops]

Well I agree with TL in that it doesnt mean it isnt real just because it can be deliberatley induced. I have also read stories of people who have returned from the dead with psychic gifts and knowledge of the future.

A particular interesting case I read about some time back was a mother of 2 who commited suicide. While in the NDE she had a choice to go back but beforehand she was shown by an unknown entity (possibly god?) the future of her Children had she chose to go on to make the decision to not return and officialy die. The future of her children without their mother was bad so she realised her selfish mistake and chose to return. Facinating stuff. I'm sure you people have read similar stories with NDE's like this.

[Milkdrops]

?

[bjb1234]

I have heard some stories, but that one sounds pretty remarkable.

One i have heard is when the guy in the hospitol left his body, and went thru the ceiling into the ward above, and also read his own doctors notes etc...  I dont think that was a NDE tho, i think it was a OBE that happened after they gave him medication that paralysed his body.

But theres thousands of different stories and testimonials out there, where the person who has them can give information to the doctors about well the hospitol or there notes or anything like that, which the doctors could not explain.

Im gonna have to take some time to read stories one day.

[catmeow]

The researcher who induced "obes" was Dr Olaf Blanke.  There are various threads on this board.  I critiqued his work here:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_obe_discussions/outofbody_experience_clues_may_hide_in_mind-t22481.0.html

He didn't in fact induce a full-fledeged obe just some "obe-like" sensations. in one epileptic (ie abnormal) subject by stimulating the angular gyrus.

Regarding NDE there are numereous cases of people experiencing brain-death (no EEG, and no blood supply) and then subsequently accurately reporting what took place whilst their EEG was flat.  We therefore either have to accept that the mind can function whilst the brain is dead, or else produce a better definition of brain death.  I think zero EEG and zero blood supply is quite a good definition of zero brain-activity, although functional MRI might be better. Two good NDE resources:

http://www.near-death.com/
http://www.nderf.org/

Assuming that the mind is functioning outside and independent of the physical brain, there must be some mechanism to "download" memories back into the physical brain/mind once "life" is restored to the brain.  There is no reason to assume this mechanism will work every time, and every reason to assume that such recall will generally be imperfect.  Hence it's likely to be the exception rather than the rule that people who experience brain death remember what happened to them.

[bjb1234]

great post catmeow thanks

[Parapsycho]

Regarding NDE there are numereous cases of people experiencing brain-death (no EEG, and no blood supply) and then subsequently accurately reporting what took place whilst their EEG was flat.  We therefore either have to accept that the mind can function whilst the brain is dead, or else produce a better definition of brain death.  I think zero EEG and zero blood supply is quite a good definition of zero brain-activity, although functional MRI might be better.

True, but I have also found that time seems to take on different meaning in altered states of consciousness. For instance, once while in an altered state of consciousness, I was riding in a car and it felt like we had been driving for an hour. It turned out to be 20 minutes. I'm sure that brain death would cause a more intense altered state, so there wouldnt be a way to tell if their experience synched up with our perception of time. To them, an hour experience could last a few minutes to us.

Not saying your wrong, just offering a counter point.

[Kraven Obscuria]

Funny enough, you mentioned NASA...

There is this dude, i heard some videos well audio clips on youtube from this guy who used to work at NASA he was a big guy there, dont know what he did, but he was very very educated.  He had been having OBEs since he was a child and remembering them, and he quit his job with NASA to write his book and research OBEs.

I forgot his name, but i remember he was black and had a really well high pitch soft kinda voice.

You guys might have seen him somewhere. 

The ex NASA "dude" is Albert Taylor, who wrote Soul Traveler.  His book is a very easy read, short at about 100 pages and presents his progresses in a non-technical, humanistic manner.

[Tristanh]

I would imagine it's because although their heart has stopped, there is still blood circulation- after all those that survived were being resuscitated with someone pounding on their chest. Perhaps the NDE starts when the dying process has begun? Who really knows.