Hi,
I think members interested in phasing might find the following texts from Elias useful.
Regional Areas of Consciousness (http://www.eliasforum.org/digests/Regional_Areas.html)
Regional Area 1 (http://www.eliasforum.org/digests/RA1.html)
Regional Area 2 (http://www.eliasforum.org/digests/RA2.html)
Regional Area 3 (http://www.eliasforum.org/digests/RA3.html)
Regional Area 4 (http://www.eliasforum.org/digests/RA4.html)
He basically explains the Focus Levels Frank talked about. Elias terms them Regions or Areas of Awareness 1-4.
Peace,
rf_e
Between Monroe, Frank and now Elias
You Guys Are Killing Me!!!! :soapbox2:
Hey, do Frank and Elias know each other?
Or, do Frank and Elias' "scribe" know each other?
Quote from: TelosHey, do Frank and Elias know each other?
Or, do Frank and Elias' "scribe" know each other?
I would imagine that the answer is no, considering the scribe appears to have died in 2001.
Great find, by the way.
Well, perhaps the scribe is now speaking through another medium, or Frank died and then went back in time to assume the name of Elias and speak through this scribe.
I bet he'd get a real kick out of doing that.
Telos:
That would be pretty funny, especially considering all the people who would label Frank a fraud for copying Elias.
I think Monroe talked about this in his books... his INSPEC was actually a future version of himself helping out his present self. That's the way I remember it, anyway.
I started reading the material on those links, and the information is surprisingly similar to Frank's posts. There is even an "exercises" page that deal with Noticing: http://www.eliasforum.org/exercises.html.
Quote from: TheJzaI started reading the material on those links, and the information is surprisingly similar to Frank's posts. There is even an "exercises" page that deal with Noticing: http://www.eliasforum.org/exercises.html.
curiouser and curiouser....
There's so much info at that website, it'll take me YEARS to digest it all!
I don't know about this. When Frank talked about focus I really thought he was on to something, but now since "perhaps" he got lots of his ideas from that Elias chap I'm not so sure anymore. Afteral, this Elias could just be the product of someone's imagination, even if that someone is certain Elias is talking to him/her.
If that is the case, then the whole focus theory ( or at least the parts Frank added or expanded from original Monroe's theories ) could be just ramblings without any empirical proof!?
Your opinions on what I've just said?
lol empiric proof....... on subjects like this? your kidding right!?
Quote from: knightlightlol empiric proof....... on subjects like this? your kidding right!?
Empirical proof should be attainable by the simple fact we can experience these phenomenon at all. What form that proof might take I really have no idea. But I would be willing to bet it would change our opinions of what these states actually are :smile:.
Quote from: Major TomThere are few original ideas in the "new age buisness" these days, or original thinkers.
Everyone steals from eachother for personal advancement without giving due credit to the original thinkers.
The 4-focus model is quite similar to writings of another medium, as I have noted elsewhere, and Elias seems quite similar to that original medium.
What medium would that be?
I'd like to read about focus levels from person that actually has used succesfully those techniques, and not from some dude that merely stoled it from someone else and added some of his own ramblings. It's those ramblings that I have a problem with, since it may very well be that person was just making that stuff up to make the theory seem "unique", but one learning from his teachings wouldn't know that and because of that may not be able to succed in getting to astral
Quote from: Major TomJane Roberts from the 70s.
She started a new type of mediumship, and most of what followed the decades after that are bad copies of this original thought.
As far as the focus levels, and who coined the phrase "phasing" as well as focus levels, and "using them" succesfully, that would ofcourse be Robert Monroe.
So Jane Roberts expanded and improved the theory developed by Robert Monroe?
Was everything Frank told valid aka it actually helped one learn to shift focus or was alot of baloney in it?
In your opinion, did Frank bring something new and valid to the table or he just copyed Jane and added mumbo jumbo?
And most importantly Tom ... if one wants to learn to shift awareness ... who's writtings would help me most to achieve these goals (most easily understandable, most detailed ... )? It can't be Monroe, since he didn't have very detail "howtos".
Who helped you the most to learn to shift focus Tom?
For myself, I'm not concerned about who stole what from whom, or if the info has any valid proof to it or not. I just care about the info itself and how I can apply it to my own reality. I've perused through a lot of this website and so far I like what I read and will be reading it a lot more. It appears to have some pretty valuable information for myself as well as several other sites...including this one. :grin:
Well said Major Tom.
:applause:
Sarah
I like this elias guy. i dont think his words are to be shrugged off with Xarxas from planet nebular as he seems to be quite knowledgeable.
very similar to seth, hes got some good stuff and goes in-depth on topics frank couldnt get into on the board. he talks alot about the consciousness shift frank mentioned and about how we are all going to be learning how we create our own realities and shifting our awarenesses into different areas of reality and stuff like that.
a good read, imo ;)
Something that didn't resonate with me though was Elias saying that your pets won't be with you in the afterlife. I believe this is false.
this struck a chord in me-
Quote from: eliasDON: "Is it possible that this huge power of the sexual experience is part of the reason we've built up all these taboos about it? Do we fear it? Do we feel that we're close to something, and build up fears and taboos?
ELIAS: Absolutely. (Don says something inaudible here) Absolutely. It is creating of much fearfulness, for it is an expression unbounded of yourself within physical focus which holds MUCH powerfulness.
DON: So maybe that's the reason that humans and animals have such a different reaction to sex? Because animals don't feel that power that we feel. For them, there's no aspect to sex other than the physical aspect.
ELIAS: Not necessarily. Your creatures also do not hold belief systems. Therefore, they do not place judgments upon their sexual activity. But look to your creatures. They display tremendous ritual, and they also are accepting of their sexual actions. They place no belief systems and judgments upon them. They accept them for what they are. They do not hold quite the same action as do you, for they are not responding within their sexual orientation to elements of essence as are you, but they hold less difficulties and conflicts than do you, for they do not hold the belief systems. They also hold intimacy.
DON: Are a lot of our belief systems built on fears that we will experience coming too close to something that's essentially true?
ELIAS: Correct.
DON: And animals can't experience that, so they couldn't develop belief systems.
ELIAS: They have not been created in this manner. Your creatures are not essence. Therefore, they have not been created in a manner that you endow them with all of your belief systems. This is not necessarily limiting of them. In many aspects, they experience more freedom than you allow yourselves.
DON: There's not much correlation. You look at dolphins and other very intelligent animals, and there's really not much evidence that they develop any of the belief systems that we have.
ELIAS: No.
DON: So I guess my question is – what I'm trying to get to is – is there a direct correlation between the fact that we are central creatures and that we do develop belief systems? Are the two related? I mean, are we fighting ourselves in that way?
ELIAS: Yes, you are conflicting yourselves, but you are conflicting yourselves within your belief systems. You are limiting yourselves within your belief systems. You are no closer to consciousness than a dolphin. A creature merely holds no fearfulness of consciousness, for it has not separated itself as far from consciousness. There is an allowance of more subjective activity within creatures, for they do not block their subjective interaction. You hold fearfulness of what you term to be unknown; that which you have separated from, that which you do not remember.
DON: Is it because we do remember it on some level that we're fearful of it?
ELIAS: No. It is that you have forgotten, and THIS creates the fearfulness; but as you move into a remembrance, the fearfulness dissipates.
HELEN: In other words, our belief systems are what keep us at a distance from our essence, so we can have purity of experience ...
ELIAS: Correct.
HELEN: ... in physical focus, and that's why they were developed in the first place?
ELIAS: Correct; but it is becoming unnecessary for this separation. Therefore, you create this shift in consciousness to be exploring new aspects of your reality, incorporating more of your remembrance and of essence.
HELEN: And less belief systems.
ELIAS: Less separation.
HELEN: Less separation. But belief systems create the separation.
ELIAS: In accepting the belief systems, you create less separation."
Quote from: Major Tom
There are many "howtos" including Monroe's, whose work got me into OBEs twenty years ago, so I hold fond memories, and I like his western (and semi-scientific) perspective.
But all any author can do is person in a certain direction, yet nothing will be ever detailed enough unless, once again, you watch your own experience very closely, and look for what is holding you back on a personal level.
Can you recommend some books that would help me learn to shift awareness to other focus levels? I don't mean books that contain a bunch of jada jada, I mean books that more or less give you "howtos" (I don't mind a little of jada jada, but if one wants to learn to drive a car, he/she doesn't need to learn all about the engine prior).
I know there's plenty of book recomendations going on in this forum, but I don't wanna learn the "robert bruce's way".
wow that is truly incredible, it really is.
reading bits and bob, it's ver lucid and really clearly explained, more than anything else I have read.
great stuff! great find!
This is exactly what I've been looking for!
wow is this really some being from another dimension telling us what it's all about?
I will try to make this my last post in this thread so not to take any more of your time
It seems to me that best method would be to learn to change focus during meditation. Then there'd be no sleep deprivations etc. So why doesn't more people do it via meditation, including you Tom?
In the link you posted you mentioned your time out varies from 3 sec to 5 min. Why so short?
It appears you are among the more experienced projectors on this forum, but don't most projections last on average for around 30 minutes?
Quote from: Major TomBut the easiest, over time, and the most sensical way to OBE, have been methods that utilize natural occuring sleep cycles.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "utilize natural occuring sleep cycles"? You mean when it's time for bed, instead of falling asleep it is then you try to project? So since one usually goes to sleep at night it means you don't try to force a sleep and thus projection during a day?
hiya Tom
Quote from: Major TomNot sure where you you heard 30 minutes for a typical projection.
Five minutes is already pretty long in my book, and most OBEs of many others (including OBE authors) I'm sure are of that duration (although perhaps not advertized as much). Try out how much you can do in five minutes in real life running or flying around in your house. It's quite long.
I don't know from where I pulled out that number, but nontheless, from reading ( on this forum ) some of the events people experience in astral, one gets the feeling it has to last more than 10 minutes.
I mean if one person tells how he met that spirit, talked to it for awhile, then met another one and went golfing with it etc ... unless perception of time is different in astral, or if posters are making things up, then I don't see how all this can be accomplished in 5 or less minutes.
The only other explanation would be different time perception in astral.
So do we have a different time perception in astral? If so, does 5 minutes feel like 30 minutes or ... ?
Quote from: Major Tom
Everything takes practice, and it's a long road, especially if OBEs are highly lucid, and assumptions of the waking self hold greater sway.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by that? My english is so so.
Quote from: PotatisSomething that didn't resonate with me though was Elias saying that your pets won't be with you in the afterlife. I believe this is false.
According to some noteable NDE reports, our pets are often present when we cross over.
Was it my imagination or did Elias repeat himself a lot? :roll:
On the subject of pets, often during my false awakenings I will see my parents cats. Usually they come right up to me and seem surprised I am moving, they are usually a bit warped in appearance, for example one of my parents cats, Dot, is black and white. The other night I saw her in the RTZ during an episode of paralysis and she was indeed black and white, but the pattern on her body was like a cows... or a zebras, almost stripes and her features where blurred. As I flailed one of my hands she came up to my hand and smelled it. If I hadnt been panicked so much I may have petted her but as per usual I was flailing about in a panic and wasnt thinking clearly.
Anyway, the point I am getting at is the only reason I have in my mind to believe that the RTZ is a world between physical reality and the "astral" is animals! I never see them in the RTZ when they are awake and I ALWAYS see them when they are sleeping. I always make sure to check after I see them and its never failed. I always keep my door closed so they cant get in and I am not seeing them physically.... anyone else share any similar experiences?
Back on topic... I agree 100% Tom, I have had some LONG OBE's, I will wake up and think "wow that felt like it lasted for hours!" but then i will stop and think about it and go over the events and really it took about 15 minutes. It seems the more lucid I am the longer things seem to take because everything is so vivid and immersive. I also have killed many OBE's by randomly freaking out about having to go back to my body and of course I do! If I had stayed calm and not let it enter my mind who knows how much longer I could have stayed out.
Quote from: knightlight
Back on topic... I agree 100% Tom, I have had some LONG OBE's, I will wake up and think "wow that felt like it lasted for hours!" but then i will stop and think about it and go over the events and really it took about 15 minutes. It seems the more lucid I am the longer things seem to take because everything is so vivid and immersive. I also have killed many OBE's by randomly freaking out about having to go back to my body and of course I do! If I had stayed calm and not let it enter my mind who knows how much longer I could have stayed out.
When I used the term different time perception I meant it more in a way that things happen that much faster in astral and thus you get to do things(like watch a whole movie and then go for a long walk) in a matter of minutes.
You know like one episode of Star trek enterprise where Picard falls into coma and lives trough (in his mind) the next 20 years of his life, but when they got him out of coma-like state he realised only few minutes have passed since he collapsed and started "dreaming". That's what I meant with different time perception. He managed to experience as much as one would experience in 20 years in physical world
reminds me of focus 4.
"In examining other consciousness, you explore other parts of yourself. You have each felt other focuses, of other dimensions and other cultures. This may serve to widen your awareness of your essence. Your essence incorporates all focuses.
I like this description of phasing into the Monroe method .
http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/index.php/topic,17670.0.html
i think Frank connected with this energy essence in focus 4.
fascinating, thanks for the links.
I really like the chart, Levels of Self-hood (essence)
The opposite sectors relate belief system to the individual's state,
AND they are mostly all divided into 5 sections. (all except Jew)
So, instead of "42" could the number "5" be the answer to the
"Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything. " ?
srry, couldn't resist :smile:
thanks again, very interesting reading...
WG
....no comparison Bardon and Monroe describe the realms as do Bailey and Stone and Hurtak . This Elias is bogus .But the image on the front page of the site is interesting even though it is copied from another site . The chinese energy terms are incorrect on that map .
should be ;
Shen mind and psychic lunar stone
Ching sexual creativity earth stone
Chi life force solar stone