Trying to explain to mystic minded

[Andali27]

Okay, I'm trying to explain the concept of AP/OBE to somone but they refuse to believe that it has nothing to do with demons, witchcraft and all the like.  They beleive that as soon as you leave, some other entourage of whatever will try and take u over while you're out so to speak.

For a fact, I know this is false but how can you explain that to someone that seems adament and set in their ways?  As far as I can see, it's impossible and no matter how hard I try, the conversation ends up turning into an argument, and others seem to be on their side too.  Okay, I'm tiptoeing around here, the one I argue with is my mum, and her point of view (though I know terribly much more on the topic than her), and my brothers and sister jump on the bandwagon like she's right because they don't know any better.

The topic keeps cropping up and it's beginning to really get on my nerves because I can't seem to get my point across no matter what angel I try to go in at.  Whether it be from dreaming, or even something else, she refuses to even consider my point of view.

At one stage, she even went on these forums, which is why I created another username.

Not only was it done behind my back, but she literally read all of my messages!!!!  All 200 +, or so she claims, but I don't beleive that for many reasons.

The problem is, the argument is getting on nerves, that and the fact she keeps bringing up the whole "why are u using the forum if you're not trying for an OBE"

I would then say something and she'd make some unwarrented comment such as "why would u want to hang around with a bunch of nutters?" referring to the people on the forum, here.  Those that have helped me!

I keep trying to dismiss the argument, no, I've been having dreams, no, I didn't try, I don't try, I had a dream.

Please, anyone, some advice?  She's so stuck in her ways I can't get a damn thing across from my perspective.  She believes in all the mystic and old age c*rap while I'm trying to convince her otherwise but it's like she's stuck in a groove, demons, evil spirits.  Arrrgghhhh!!!!

Anything at all people!  I really want to lay this argument to rest but I want to do it so I we both end up happy with the result, though somehow, I can't see that.

Anything at all is appreciated

Andali

[Froglet]

Hello Andali,

I know what you mean... about people listening.  I think I've found that some people aren't ready yet.  Either they're scared or they just aren't ready.  I have a room mate for college and for example when I talk about somethings he simply shrugs and isn't interested.  He is in to obes but yet he isn't interested about some of the deeper stuff yet.  I'm sorry to hear all of the trouble you're having.  I can understand that situation from my personal experiences.  I would say don't give up though.  there isn't a reason to.  Maybe some one else has a better way.  What I've found myself is I might just have to wait till people are ready.

Best of luck to the situation

[Gem]

Hi Andali

People choose to believe what they will, it is their right. Just as it is our right to believe in OBE's and the like, it is your mother's right not to. It's not a question of her not being ready, she may never want to believe in it and no-one has the right to try and make her.

I would suggest next time the subject comes up that you could simply say that you have your beliefs and she has hers and that if you can't discuss it without arguing, that you respect each others opinions, agree to disagree and not discuss it at all.

Gem
Gem

[Frank]

Andali:

I really feel for you as I come across this kind of closedmindedness all the time. I do like your phraseology, "stuck in a groove", yep, that explains it nicely. I shall use that in future!

With many people there is nothing you can do to change their opinion. A high percentage of adults are just stuck in their ways, they have their beliefs and woe betide anyone who would dare challenge them. Look out at the world, people fight wars to protect their beliefs. Countries are armed to the teeth with missiles and bombs together with all manner of delivery systems and armies of hundreds of thousands of soldiers, all to protect the presumed sanctity of people's belief constructs about how reality should be.

This kind of enforced imposition of beliefs, i.e. believe what I tell you or else, infects every level of human society.

Yours,
Frank

[schotzi]

Me, I don't talk to anybody about it. Just my wife and she thinks I'm a little "off". But after 20 years of marriage she knows there is something to it.

But my point is EVEN after being married 20 years if I can't convince her......

I just keep it to myself and enjoy it. I just recently found a couple of forums though.

[MontanaHayseed]

The simplest solution is the best:   Don't talk about it with her.  Presumable her opinions will change when she kicks the bucket.  If she is going out her way to make a pain in the butt about it of herself,  I would be inclined to become less available.

Alternatively, if you are the sporting type, consider feigning posession and scare the sh*t out of her: Tell her spirits have been hovering about lately and that you are a bit worried... then start to gurgle, grimace and writhe... all fairly quietly and not too much motion at first.  When she is starting to really wonder and get sucked in, suddenly jump up and make a loud shout or scream.  With any luck at all she won't stop running till she clears the county line, eh?

[BillionNamesofGod]

just out of interest just so I'm not going nuts or something - this thread has been severely edited right? what was the reason?

[Frank]

Hi:

Nope, not edited at all. In case you missed it we had a problem last week and had to restore the whole forum from the last full backup. So we lost about 1000 posts.

See Adrian's notice in Chat: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18948

Yours,
Frank

[FEMMSTARR]

The topic keeps cropping up and it's beginning to really get on my nerves because I can't seem to get my point across no matter what angel I try to go in at.  Whether it be from dreaming, or even something else, she refuses to even consider my point of view.

Andali

Sorry but you cannot help brainwashed christians I have never seen it done before
that religion is the worst for scaring folks into believeing all that they say and anything that is not from them is from the devil

that is one of the first things they teach christians is  fear the devil and the pastor only speaks gospel (the true truth to them but to us that know better it is the big lie)
sorry my friend but that is one argument you will never win no matter what the real truth is

[Ben K]

I have learned the best thing is just let them slide. All roads lead to Rome.

[mouse]

FEMMSTARR, I'm sorry but I can't just let that post go without putting in my view.

Mod Edit: With respect we'd like to stay on-topic and not let things slide to arguing amongst oneselves regarding respective views about religion. That's what the religious section is for.

Just a thought.  No offense towards anyone.  

Oh, and Andali, if the situation with your mother gets really bad, then perhaps, as a last resort, look up Robert Peterson's online book and show her the sections where he talks about religion (a few places, scattered about the book).  Maybe that will change her mind like it did mine.  I hope things get better for you soon.  

Peace.

[FEMMSTARR]

FEMMSTARR, I'm sorry but I can't just let that post go without putting in my view.

Mod Edit: With respect we'd like to stay on-topic and not let things slide to arguing amongst oneselves regarding respective views about religion. That's what the religious section is for.

Just a thought.  No offense towards anyone.  

Oh, and Andali, if the situation with your mother gets really bad, then perhaps, as a last resort, look up Robert Peterson's online book and show her the sections where he talks about religion (a few places, scattered about the book).  Maybe that will change her mind like it did mine.  I hope things get better for you soon.  

Peace.

oh I think you can post your opinion without folks getting offended I know I am not easily offended  I have plenty of christian friends and love them all I just dont try to talk them out of it and they dont try to talk me into it and we get along fine

and this can be moved to the religious section as far as I am concerned
as I think we did get it in the wrong area

[FEMMSTARR]

Hi Andali,

Sometimes it's best to emphasize the non-threathening aspects. Like for example, say you are "meditating" or doing "relaxation training".

That can be a problem also, since some poeple feel meditation is dangerous.

yeah I was told I would be opening my mind up to the devil and get demon posessed

I dont really worry about such things

[BillionNamesofGod]

Hi:

Nope, not edited at all. In case you missed it we had a problem last week and had to restore the whole forum from the last full backup. So we lost about 1000 posts.

See Adrian's notice in Chat: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18948

Yours,
Frank

That's a shame as I'm sure I read some great stuff. Hey, Frank you know one very easy way to write is to just use what you've written in the forums here! --- So writing a book would be easy for you!

so the way I think of it you and we've just lost a whole load of fantastic interesting material. I think I'll start saving anything really interesting as a precaution.

[Meneleus]

Hi Andali,

Religion often starts heated discussions as people have very firm views in this area, and OBEs are widely feared due to humanity's distrust of anything it doesn't fully understand.

It wouldn't surprise me if everyone one this forum had encountered the same problems as yourself.  When I was about 18 I started researching other religions (I still find them interesting though I shun all organised faiths).  Anyway, I remember one time my Mum asked me if I was becoming a witch!  All I was doing was reading a few books!  However, I found the question fascinating.  It's like the inquisition's beliefs are still embedded deeply into the Christian psyche.

Likewise I understand your need to talk to others about your experiences, but I look to these forums for that.  Too many people have a closed mind regarding things.  They don't think outside the box.  

I would suggest replying to your mother by saying you are searching for god in your own way.  Everyone has their own path: you are just trying to find yours.  If she has faith in your character she should know that you wouldn't do anything untoward.

Don't try and bring her around to your way of thinking as that's no different to what she's doing to you.  Ask her to respect your wishes and trust your intuition and judgement.

On a good note, she's doing what she thinks is the right thing for you which shows how much she cares.

Take care,

Meneleus.