Need advice on supplements,vitamins, pills that work good for lucid dreaming

[AM281]

Hello everyone I'm new to the forum. I was into astral projection/lucid dreaming a while ago but fell out of it then got back into it again this year and now I'm here  because I discovered another purpose for which I'm not gonna get into in this thread but all I'll just say is that I think it's more than a coincidence that certain things have happened the day after a certain type of lucid dream anyway

what I want to know is can anybody give me advice on supplements,vitamins, pills that work really good, I tried the stage 2 Nicoderm CQ patches for a little while those actually worked really really well but I want to stay away from pumping nicotine into my body. I also tried B6 100mg and wasn't that impressed at all

I want to step it up a notch i'm looking for something that's going to give me a good chance of inducing and taking control because I keep falling asleep all the way and it pisses me off cas its like damn another night wasted lol  I guess im looking for consistency but when I do get in control I usually accomplish my objectives

Any advise,tips would be greatly appreciated

thanks for your time guys

[ThaomasOfGrey]

You have a variety of options here. For strong lucid dreams and dream recall, I have had success with Mugwort and Valerian. There are more powerful herbs that do the same thing but I haven't tried them as they are not available in my country. Calea and African Dream Root are among the most potent.

That is all dream based stuff, conscious entry is whole other thing and gets into the territory of illicit drugs. It is not uncommon for people to have out of body experiences on heavy doses of Marijuana, particularly if you use an isolation chamber to get into the right mind space. The lucid dream can also be induced through a medium-heavy dose of something called DXM, commonly found in prescription cough suppressant.

I can't vouch for the latter two methods as I have not achieved them personally, but the dream herbs are relatively safe, legal, and do work in my opinion.

[Bluefirephoenix]

Don't use mood altering substances natural or not. It substantially decreases the accuracy of psychic perception.

Vitamins and suppliments. A good healthy balanced diet is the best thing you can do. Avoid alcohol and some people need to also avoid caffiene. Medications and such should only be taken if they are essential to health, like blood pressure meds, heart meds, medication for siezures or major psychiatric disorders.

Anything that alters mental perception or mood is essentially poisoning the brain causing it to be in an unnatural state. These kinds of substances always cause some damage to the liver and kidneys as well.

Be very cautious with this stuff. There is a lot of garbage out there. Some of it is a little harmful some is downright poisonous.

[Szaxx]

Do a heavy workout and get yourself very fit.
This is the best way to find tune your body.
I've never taken drugs as an aid as they're poison to the mind. Why get dragged behind the car when you can drive it?
B6 dosing isn't recommended, too much and your heart will start to lose its natural rhythm, not a good thing.

To train your mind you also need to train your body, train yourself towards a goal knowing they both work together.
That's how cavemen survived and we haven't changed that much since then.

[ThaomasOfGrey]

Don't use mood altering substances natural or not. It substantially decreases the accuracy of psychic perception.

Anything that alters mental perception or mood is essentially poisoning the brain causing it to be in an unnatural state.

I've never taken drugs as an aid as they're poison to the mind.

There are many spiritual leaders today that greatly advocate the use of substances that alter mental perception. It has been a part of human ritual for thousands of years and played a crucial role in early societal evolution.

I can kind of understand the idea that they might decrease psychic perception for someone who is already proficient. I am convinced that astral projection is a greater experience than any drug can induce. If I could astral project at will there would be no reason to ever consider drugs.

The reality is that the vast majority of people can't access these experiences easily. Even after regular practice for over a year and hundreds of lucid dreams I haven't been able to produce any experiences that compare to even a very mild psychedelic event.

Maybe some of these drugs have negative effects on the body - I don't doubt it and I personally fear any chemical made in a lab. On the other hand, studies show that the effects on health in many cases are so negligible that it cannot be proven that any down side exists at all. I feel that calling this poisoning the brain may be a bit over zealous.

My bottom line here is that if you go through your whole life without experiencing the power of your own mind, whether it be by astral projection or psychedelics, you are missing out on a huge and beautiful thing, and I have only seen the first 1% or less of what is available.

I had my first psychedelic trip about a month ago and it was arguably the greatest experience of my life. I have felt stuck here for a while and this experience was the first time I have really felt free from the bounds of this reality. It made me feel blissfully happy on a spiritual level and granted a renewed positive outlook on the experiences we can have.

I am also grateful for the vast spiritual growth that has manifested within me since I began using Marijuana. Prior to this I was a straight, atheist, scientific, rational, emotionally shut off and brutally calculating guy who would say things like: "I don't believe in anything that cannot be measured with science" or "we should push a button and kill half the population on earth".

I can still remember thinking "this is what empathy is" in one of my earlier experiences. Many of my core views have taken a full 180 swing. In addition I have generated enough creative content to give me a very solid foundation for the video game I have been working on for the past 5 years, which I consider the great work of my life right now.

I believe there is a level at which these tools will no longer be relevant for me and that time is approaching. I think it is fair to say that some of us are still far away from driving the car and need a ride sometimes to see what is out there.

[Szaxx]

That's a nicely presented reply.
I had to laugh at the removal of half the planets population, I too shared this entropic cleansing for a while way back and empathy switched on changing this erroneous mindset. A handful of clairvoyant dreams was a wake-up call and a half.
I may have been misrepresenting myself somewhat, the general use of non medical drugs has destroyed a few lives due to dependence and I couldn't help some of them.
The us of plant extracts has met with my approval in previous posts if done by those expert in their related field. Shamans et al really do a great job, they've been on TV in documentaries too. The ride provided met with an understanding that wouldn't have been available on the spiritual side of life in any other way.
My main point though is being athletically fit DID make a massive swing in favour of projecting. From personal experience, I could run all day and project at almost any time with ease. Being older, the fitness isn't the same and projecting isn't as easy although changes in lifestyle do inhibit many attempts.
If you can go on a safe ride, jump for it. The benefits are worth the temporary side effects you may receive. I'm not suggesting a DIY trial as this would be dangerous and could lead to an uncontrolled bad experience creating a very negative assessment of the art.
This would be mind poisoning and further experiments not taken would lead you away from the truly blissful states of mind available.
Natural methods are preferred as you stay in control, forced methods do exist and you have to accept the result of not being in the driving seat.
Make sure the driver has the credentials first lol.

[AM281]

thanks guys for all the replies i will take both prospective into consideration.

[ThaomasOfGrey]

My main point though is being athletically fit DID make a massive swing in favour of projecting. From personal experience, I could run all day and project at almost any time with ease. Being older, the fitness isn't the same and projecting isn't as easy although changes in lifestyle do inhibit many attempts.

I am intrigued on the relationship between fitness and projection. A few of the famous authors on the topic say that anyone can project regardless of health, and I suppose I would agree within reason.

On the other hand I constantly find accounts from top athletes that speak about having out of body experiences. These individuals are not trying and often they are unaware of what they are doing.

There is strong evidence that being in perfect physical health can help with projection. Even a good session of controlled breathing to fully oxidise the body seems to make a short term difference.

Another interesting side note is that the type of projection that top athletes can perform is almost the opposite of mind awake body asleep. It is body awake and mind running on autonomous reaction. Perhaps there is a strong correlation with health and "waking projection" which I consider to be a more advanced skill.

[Lumaza]

On the other hand I constantly find accounts from top athletes that speak about having out of body experiences. These individuals are not trying and often they are unaware of what they are doing.

I have heard this as well. But I think the "catalyst" here was "physical exhaustion", instead of "physical fitness".

I say this because I remember as a teen I was helping my Father unload a transport truck at his work that was filled with heavy boxes. That night I was completely spent when I went to bed.

Somewhere along the night I found myself on my bedroom floor crawling. I was screaming for help, but nobody in my home heard me. it wasn't until I began learning more about Astral Projection and OBEs that I realized my experience was a spontaneous OBE.

I have heard the same account from other people as well. They had a spontaneous OBE after some kind of tedious physical exertion.

[Szaxx]

Very interesting feedback. The body awake and being connected to the larger reality has produced some very helpful information personally. I've had far too many accounts of knowing things that normally, for many, wouldn't occur.
Some are posted, exactly where is another thing lol.
Being exhausted has produced some experiences, nowhere near as many as spontaneous ones.
Anyone meeting THEIR requirements can project, I know mine very well, getting to know your own is an art in itself. It's like shifting sands, once you learn the tides, the rest is predictable. For a beginner its no easy task. I'm still trying to access the labeled RTZ. It was so easy at 5 years old, now it seems impossible. This task isn't re-learnable, I don't give up either, the dilemma is aaaarrrrgggghhhh, annoying. There's so much experimenting within it I would like to accomplish.
Thinking about the fitness thing, you can't be lazy or it doesn't work. Perhaps there's a tie to the athletic mindset and the intent used to project. They are one and the same with a different subject heading.
Meditate, relax and ignore anything sensed from the physical world as you drift into the nothingness. Just go with the flow noticing non physical perceptions and focus only on them.
In a nutshell that's all I do and it works.

[EscapeVelocity]

Like Szaxx wrote, everyone has THEIR own particular requirements and these can vary over time for each person depending on very circumstantial factors, the default answer is to always go minimal and natural, meaning...do it yourself. This way teaches the necessary discipline required to do the Art properly, especially concerning the mental/emotional control. Anybody can drop a huge amount of LSD and have a truly earth-shattering experience (as long as it doesn't turn ugly) and come back reporting that they have Broken The Veil...but so what? It's like a car accident...mostly beyond control...and beyond understanding.

I have had a dry period for the last year; just when I thought things were taking off for me...everything stopped. Finally, I ordered some supplements I figured would help...but they have sat on my kitchen counter for almost a year now, the seals unbroken. The temptation is to jumpstart the process,  but for some reason I hold off, because I want to do it natural, the right way. That's me. The answer lies elsewhere and should not be forced with drugs. I sense there are other issues holding me back.

Regarding physical exertion by athletes or otherwise, my understanding puts this into two categories: There are those that have OBEs after strenuous, exhausting physical effort, one example being the Sufis and the Dance of the Whirling Dervishes where eventually the whirling dancer collapses from exhaustion and finds him/herself still standing within their astral body; the other, being often long distance runners, where the activity is so automatic and programmed that some find themselves at mid-distance, floating above their running physical selves and cognizant of the separation.

I grew up having to run a riding lawn mower over five acres for hours and days as a ten year old. It was a wonderful form of mindlessness, then a form of meditation, but I never did make the connection with the OBEs I was having, thus I missed that form of OoB bi-location. Especially when I mowed over a wasp's nest...then I was incredibly present!