Question Regarding Real Time Projecting.

[thelou]

I have only RTZ once for a bout 5 seconds.  But from everything I have read, you are correct.

[CptPicard]

Hello thelou,

Thx for your reply.... tell me, have you read Astral Dynamics yet?
There was something in there about putting a card on the wall without seeing what it is before you AP. And then once you've astral projected in the RTZ you can check the card and remember it when returning to your body. This is incredibly fascinating....[]

What's it like projecting! does it feel as realistic and look the same as what your feeling and seeing right now, is it as bright???

I will project oneday and remember it I hope...

[thelou]

Hi Cptn.

No I have not read Astral Dynamics.  Only stuff on the web.

I have only been out a few times, and it is different each time.  Apparently it can be as real as if you were there and not Aping, or fuzzy like a dream.  Or anywhere in-between.

There are many different levels of our consciousness, and many different levels of the Astral world.  All of these, and that it is different for different people, give countless hundreds of "what it would feel like" scenarios.  

I agree it is all very fascinating.  The best advice I can give you is to read everything you can.

Also another good thing to do is keep an AP log.  I don't think I have found anyone else doing that yet.  Perhaps I will start a thread on it.

This is how I do it.  I open up a word document and then insert the date, time.  I type what ever time it is.

For example:

April 29, 2004

10:55-

The first thing I do when I wake up is type in that time.  It has been amazing to me the number of times I was under for exactly 60 minutes.  I would have never known if I did not keep track of time in this way.

Then I try to describe everything.  Kind of like "dear diary".

After about a week I was not getting the results that I thought I should be getting and seriously considered quitting.

Then one day I went back through my entries.

(I set up a separate folder in my docs call obe log, and I save each day separately in there).

Any how, after reading back through my entries, I was able to see how each days experience was different from the one before.  I was actually able to see where I was making progress.  It was like everyday I went through one more baby step.  They were so small I thought them insignificant at the time.  

It was good that I wrote every thing down as detailed as I could.  If I would have disregarded the little insignificant things they never would have made it into the log.  I would have never went back and re-read them, would not have been able to see I was making progress, and would have quit.

The OBE log has proven very valuable for me in other ways also.  For example, I got to a point a few days ago where nothing was happening.  Upon reviewing my log and combining learning experience from several different days, the answer to my dilemma just sort of popped into my head.

After three weeks, I could see so many baby steps along the way, I wondered why I ever thought it would be easy to learn.  Getting your first OBE takes time.  It takes persistence.  But it does not have to take many months, or years like it has for some people.  Keep reading this forum and other books, and I believe that you will be able to do it in a relatively short time compared to some.  But be mentally prepared that it could take weeks, or even a couple of months.  I think one of the biggest reasons people quit is because they think, (just like I did) that they will be able to jump in and have this all figured out if a few days.  Then quit when "it doesn't work".

Also work with it every day.  Not just once in a while.  For me there has been a momentum thing.  The more I work at it the more speed builds up.  If you skip to much time all of the wind goes right out of your sail.

Four other times in my life I was going to master the "out of body thing".  Worked at it for a day or two, or maybe a couple times a month.  And NEVER had results.

Also many people have said that the harder they try, the harder it is.  And I sure found out that is true.  There advice was to stop trying so hard.  Relax and just let it come to you.  When I did that, it started to.  But a little piece at a time.

I have come to believe that it is like lifting weights and successfully projecting is a very "heavy" topic.

Another thing that has helped me with this, and many areas of my life is watching what words I use when I am thinking, talking, writing, etc.  Let me explain.  The psychology of the human subconscious is incredibly interesting to me.  So I have studied it for about 20-30 years.  The words we use are imprinted on the subconscious mind and this can either help us or hinder us.  Especially here because so much of it is mental.

I discuss this a little more in depth in these two links.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11651

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11722

Hope this helps, and keep on with it.[]

Thelou

[thelou]

Sorry I did not get this part for some reason when I cut and pasted it into the forum.[V]

If you read the other stuff posted in these links also you can find some good info.  People like Major Tom, Innerpilot, Antigravity, Alpha Omega, Mikeman, and Thing, just to name a few, have some really great information out there.  It seems like everything I am wanting to learn, is a topic they know allot about.[]

Thelou

[Kazbadan]

Hi Lou! Do you think that a log, even for dreams, it is important? I am trying to obe (i mean, i only try at weekend, i need the night to have forces to work in next daysince i have insomnias) but i dont know if it is so important as that, to wright everything concerned to my dreams. What do you think about that?

2- This second question it is abusive, but here goes: do you mind to show us a little part from your diary? Just to see the amount of details used, and the kind of things that it is important to note. Please, feel ok if you think you shouldn´t show us anything, it is personal. Besides that, i am the one that must apolgizes for this abusive request! So here goes: sorry!

3- Is Astral Dynamics an ebook, or do we must to buy it? I heard somethinh that there an e-version and a real book, but this is one it is far more complete. Is that so? If there is note any ebook, wich site or ebook would you advise me to read?

Thanks

[samsara]

Hi Cpt Picard,
             I do think the real time zone refers to a projection within the area/world normally viewed from inside the body. From what I remember, I think it is an astral duplicate of what is seen in the body. I think I experienced real time projection. It felt and looked the same as if I was in the body but, unfortunately, once I gained realisation that all the usual sensations that are present in the solid body were not there, this produced a panic feeling which immediately brought me out of it (Damn annoying)
I am trying to learn stable projection in the real time zone.

                                           Samsara

[thelou]

Hi Kasbadan

Well, I really did not want to believe that logs were that important when I first started.  I thought about rolling over and writing down notes every time I had a dream and then all the time it would take later to write everything out.  Being lazy by nature I decided that I could just figure it out mentally and could do just as good.

That worked for me for a few days in the beginning.  My dreams and obe experiences were few and vague.  Then I got to a point where I was going nowhere.

So I caved and decided that I was going to test this writing things down stuff. And within a couple of days everything started moving forward again.

My dreams were few, and almost nothing was remembered.  Once I started writing them down, the number increased, the clarity of them increased, what I remembered from them increased, and what I learned from them got easier to figure out.

SIDE NOTE: Not all dreams have a message in them.  That is where I used to get confused.  Trying to figure everything out.  After you practice, when there is a real massage in a dream you will know it.

I think the reasons everything gets better are this.  The dream world is basically the world of the subconscious.  The conscious really doesn't care about it.  This is why we do not remember most dreams, unless they are special for some reason.

When we start writing them down, now the conscious mind kind of stands up and takes notice.  I read somewhere that what you are doing is training your subconscious and conscious minds to become aware of each other and to have better communication.  One person reported that they got to the point where they could communicate directly with their subconscious minds.

Once the conscious mind starts to take notice of the dreams you are having it starts remembering them better.  I went to one or two very short dreams a night to 4-6 long ones.  My dream cycle runs from about 1-4 am each morning.  At first this interrupted me and I felt like I tired in the day time.  After a few days this goes away, as our bodies adapt.  Now I am starting to have dreams before I fall back asleep.  I made a post on this the other day.  But this morning I had a dream that explained it to me.  My imagination is getting stronger and now I am starting to see, hear, things more clearly in my dream state.  I asked the dream why is that important.  It said because we are exercising your mental muscles.  When you start having better OBE's you will be happy that your senses are stronger.

I think that is why it takes us so long to actually go from day one to having OBE.  We are aware of your physical senses, touch, sight, sound, etc.  Our non physical bodies also have these senses and more.  But just like we have not consciously learned to take note of our dream world, we have not consciously learned to take note of our non physical senses.  We have to learn how to do that, just like when we learned how to walk as a baby.  I have never heard of a one day old baby walking up to mom and asking her how it is going.

In regards to your insomnia.  I read somewhere but I don't remember where, about a person who started doing this and it helped their insomnia.  

So the answer is yes.  Even though I resisted at first and did not want to, I am glad I did.  For me keeping a dream log and a separate OBE log has helped me tremendously.  It probably would have taken me many months to get to where I am at just over one.

2.  No your second question is not abusive to me.  Although I am a very private, person, this is a forum.  You and I will probably never see each other.  And if we did meet by then we would be friends, so it would not matter.  But I think by the amount of detail in this post and the ones before it give you an idea about how I go into detail.  I am sure some people are thinking just shut up already, you go to long.  And to this I apologize.  Because this post is already long I do not want to make it any longer by including a few pages from one of my logs.  Besides each of our dreams hold meaning for us.  What one person dreams most likely will not hold value to someone else.  Therefore I don't think that the content of my dreams would help you much.  Most likely just be confusing.  Just put the date and time in.  Write down all of the details of the dream you can remember, and any thoughts or feelings you have.  There is a dream journal forum where others tell about their methods.  I just remembered it.  Here is the link.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11745&SearchTerms=dream+journal

It is by MajorTom.  He always has good information.

For your third question, I don't know.  Anyone else?

I am curious about the meaning of they saying at the bottom of your page?

Thelou

[Kazbadan]

Thanks a lot for your help Lou! BTW: you were not boring as you said!

Abou dreams, i suppose that i am lucky (?). Everybody here becomes happy when they start to have 4 dtreams/day. Well, since litlle one that i have really many dreams/day. Alll of them are crazy and insane (sometimes i laugh myself when remembering it). So, that´s a postiive point. The negative side is, that so many dreams (and many times i have bad dreams) makes me feel tired by the morning.

Sometimes i have so much dreams, that will dream almost all night (but only a few i will remember)!

I will start to make a log i think, it is a good idea. Besides that, even if logging my dreams were unuseful, ate least i would pratice my memory!

Oh, and about the saying in the bottom of the page , it means something like: free, free, free far from eveyrthing, awakened mind. Let it be. It was almost translated to the letter...i know that it sounds strange. It was written in sanscrit. It is a budhist meaning, refering to the exact moment when someone reaches the Nirvana.

[clandestino]

quote:But what exactly is meant by the meaning Real time zone....

Hello there Captain !

The real-time zone is generally regarded to be a kind of buffer zone between our physical reality and the various astral planes.

Imagine it to be like an "overlay" of our physical world.

Imagine waking, getting out of bed, yawning, looking back at your bed and realising that your body is still there, asleep. You look around the room, and you are in the "real time zone", a seeming facsimile of your immediate environment.

However, it gets more complicated....
1) your mind affects / creates whilst in an astral plane. To a certain extent, this is true in the RTZ...e.g., you may will yourself to "float" out of your body.
  So, your unconcious mind may be making modifications in the RTZ.
2) you are liable to move / drift out of the RTZ, into an astral plane. You might not retain full lucidity, and when you wake its easy to dismiss the experience as a vivid dream.
3) "testing" the real-time zone e.g. placing a playing card face up in a room next door, then identifying it whilst OBE, is notoriously difficult. Search this website for many reasons why.

[Kazbadan]

About the card test: maybe obes are just dreams...there are more evidences pointing to this than to the fact that obes are "real" (i means, to getting out from your body indeed.

It seems that the "non-reading" inability, while obing is just a trick from the subcounscious mind.

The only way to proof obes it is not possible! Thats frustating unless people can give other kind of important proofs

[CptPicard]

thx clandestino.... that explains things alittle more.

[clandestino]

No problem.

Kazbadan, if you do a search for "playing cards", specify the member "Patty", you'll find some posts where she succeeded, to a certain extent.

Her experiments illustrate the difficulty of the task. Even in the comfort of her own home, over a period of a few months, she struggled.

In a controlled environment, the task becomes very difficult indeed.

Other points to note :

a) Vision in the real time zone is 95% of the time not crystal clear.
b) Memory recall after an OBE is very tricky !!!!
c) Fluctuations in the "RTZ", e.g. you notice a door that shouldn't be in your room, are common.

quote:maybe obes are just dreams...there are more evidences pointing to this than to the fact that obes are "real"

I agree with you, there is far more evidence to suggest that they are dreams. I believe the difference between a lucid dream and an OBE is simply in knowing that you are in an OBE.

Here's a few more points to consider....I'd appreciate any responses.

Imagine you conduct the card test, re-enter, and discover that you had succeeded. Does this constitute evidence that some "non-physical" thing left your body, observed the card, and re-entered your body ?

Is the Real Time Zone a real reflection of the physical world ? Is it in some way linked to the physical, so that changes in one are manifest in the other ? Or, is the RTZ merely one of 1000's of astral planes ?

regards
Mark

[CptPicard]

Hi Guys and Girls,

I have been reading Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce; have only got quarter of the way so far Page-74, so perhaps I'm being premature in my question.

But what exactly is meant by the meaning Real time zone....
Does it mean that when you AP or have an OBE you can project an image of yourself into earths real time dimension. So for instance I could travel to my Friends house across the street and see what he/she is doing?  Or does it mean something else.

I understand there's more involved in just projecting and then returning to your body and being able to remember your experience, as Bruce quite clearly explains in his book about the function of mind split and its complexities.

But the possibility of Travelling any-where in earth's real time is fascinating... Maybe I've misinterpreted the meaning.