QUESTIONS FROM :) Hello everyone! I'm brand new to this forum and have some serious questions I need help with. Ok here are my questions and I hope someone will be kind enough to answer them directly here or feel free to Instant message/email me.
1.Has Anyone actually envoked Jesus Christ?? I'm not talking about your cousin or a friend but have YOU had contact with a being calling themselves Jesus Christ? This is a part of the same question, why on earth is Jesus supposidly called "Jeshua Ben Pandira" and how do people REALLY know he IS Jesus Christ?? Has anyone asked him specific questions?? What did he LOOK LIKE?? Is the dark skinned jesus or lighter?
2.Time Travel.. how does one know they are actually traveling to the past instead of something that sort of resembles the past? Can I go back and see Jesus and his disciples?? Could I actually interact and talk to these people in the past? If I could wouldn't that create a paradox?? Sorry but this time travel fascinates me!
3.Are people in comas in a perpetual astral plane? Where are they if they are not conscious but in a deep like sleep? If they are in the astral can they walk around and are they conscious in the astral?
4.Does time move faster or slower in the astral? Does for instance an hour in the astral feel like a minute or much longer in comparison to earth time? I guess time doesn't exist in the astral but I'm still curious. Does it feel like HOURS have passed in your AP?
5.Can you have a temporary "home" in the astral? What I mean is that can you have a regular place you go to every week/day whatever? Can you create a house for yourself in the astral? UPDATE:This was partially answered by my finding about the Astral pulse island which shocked me and I'm still in disbelief at but I'm going to read more about it.
6.Since there are so many things we do NOT know about the astral, how does anyone really know that the "masters" or divine beings are really who they say they are?? Could they be something else entirely?
7. Do most people here believe that the "masters" will not help them if they give detailed accounts of their astral travels? Has anyone spilled the beans and faced a consequence??
8.I want info about The Hall of Records or the Akashic records as Edgar Cayce called them. Has anyone here actually traveled to where the records are and actually seen what it is like? I have heard many mention it but have not seen someone say "yes I have seen it" so I'm very curious as to how the experience works. Would I see everything I ever experienced like on a movie type screen? Could I observe myself as a child walking around and could I interact with myself?
9.This is something I'm really wondering about! What is it like when someone/being in the astral talks to you?? When it happened the first time did you just stand there with your mouth wide open in amazement? lol Did it scare you? What happened when you spoke to someone? What does your own voice or someone else's sound like in the astral???
Ok I know that is alot of questions but I am very very curious about the whole astral thing. I find it wonderfully fascinating! I hope some of you can answer all of my questions or some of them.
Hi there. I'm new too this forums and the whole idea of projection and whatnot--just started taking it seriously a few weeks ago. But I'll try to answer some of your questions based on the info I've been picking up here and there. :wink:
1) I've never done it. I've heard stories, er, a story about someone on acid that saw Jesus or something, but, no, I've never seen him or anything.
2) From what I've read, you can go back in the past, but it's all on the astral plane. You'd interact with what you found there, and all, but it wouldn't be in the physical world.
3) Dunno. They're in the deepest state of sleep--delta--but that's all I know.
4) This comes from first hand experience, but not with actual projections. When I meditate, or, try to meditate, I'll be "down there" for what seems to be a long time--maybe an hour--, but when I "come up", only a half hour or so will have passed.
But I think it's the same way with projections. And dreams. You might feel like you're there for hours, maybe days, and when you do come home, you'll feel as if you traveled long and far. But in truth, you have been away for a short while, and you were sitting in your place while you wandered.
5) Dunno. I suppose it's possible. And you said you found out about the Island, which is kind of like that--I think.
6) Just hope for the best, I guess. ;)
7) Dunno, haven't heard about any of this before. But I guess you'd want to be careful with who you talk to in case there's a bad entity there pretending to be a good one. Probably get to know whoever you're talking to before you spill the beans.
8 ) I've never been there. The book I'm using... The writer said the Akashic Hall looks how you personally think it'll look. If you think it's going to be a grand library, that's what it'll be. If you think it'll be a moviehouse, that's what it'll be. If you think it's going to be in a little shack on the borderline of the creepy woods behind your house, that's what it'll be.
9) Dunno.
I hope some of my somewhat vague answers were helpful. I'm sure one of the more knowledgable guys here will be able to answer everything. :o
1. Envoked Jesus? No. And I doubt you will find the Biblical entity Jesus on the Astral plane...
(What does it matter what the color of his skin was anyway?)
2. I do not have any evidence of the possibility of travel to the local past in any sense other than the following:
You would access some sort of record in an altered state of mind (Hall of records or whatever) You would be able to view these events as they happened, but you would not be able to change or interact with anything in it. (Could luck accessing something so specific. Ive had no luck in that respect. )
3. Some people (I do not know if that includes them all) in comas are indeed found in the astral plane in various states of lucidity.
4. Time generally, for me, moves slower in astral. Meaning many days can pass in the astral while in the physical only a few seconds have passed. Im sure it can be made to move faster as well - it all depends on your state of mind.
5. With sufficient time and power you can create anything in the astral. Even whole fantasy worlds. For a single mind it is maintaining such creations that can be a problem.
6. Masters and gods. :) Yes, who knows.
8. I have accessed something that one might call a "Hall of Records". It was in the form of a very advanced computer-like console. The form of access is off course not important.
I had a guide of sorts there to help me. I was looking for info on one thing.. but got shown something else entirely. Still interesting though.
9. Ive had experiences where communication was normal (just like in the physical) and experiences where I communicated telepathically.
Ive also had a strange experience on a world where communication had to be made through a odd organic device that looked like a big seashell. :D
LatinasAreCute,
You might find this of interest.
1. Birth of Christ
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19859&highlight=jesus
2. Time Travel - yes. In various projection experiences
3. People are in their dream world during sleep while out of body.
4. I was able to video record a astral projection. Gave me a idea how long that I was out for and it took to place myself in the trance. The whole experience was roughly around 10 minutes. Five minutes to go under and the other five fighting the vibes, screaming, knocking over material objects and finding some sort of link to communicate from the astral to physical.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19623&highlight=video
5. My mom/dads house is my home in the astral. Its a safe haven that I've always projected from - even if I'm 150 miles away from the physical home. a lot of my experiences center around my mom/dads house.
6. Every experience shows learning, questions, emotions, negative and positive. I'm sure if you start projecting and come across Jesus you would feel love and the opposite with a negative entity.
7. Not sure what you are saying on this one. Who are you saying is a master "Jesus, Buddha, Monroe, Angel" etc..? I've in time been given help in my projection experiences. Sometimes the help came in when I was in a fearful situation or resisting a positive view of a new world. If you feel something is not right in the astral and who you are talking with leave.
8. Your best bet is to read the authors who've been there - Monroe, Bruce, ledbetter, fox etc.. I am sure there's quite the few in this forum who've made it that far in their experiences. I've not yet to my knowledge but I would tend to think that everything is written past,present, and future.
9. Its called mentally telepathy when you talk. You don't use your mouth to converse. I've tried using my mouth at times to talk and the sound/words come out slow motion like I have a speech problem. No, I wasn't scarred - just took it as second nature.
Hope this helps...
Tvos
Osiyo!
1. I have had many experiences that involved "Jesus". The very first one was 21 years ago when i started to have obe's. I did not know what they were then. I was very scared and cried out "I do not what to see anything but my God." Jesus then appeared to me and signaled me to get up. As I reached for him I then awoke. Since then I have seen him several times. He has appeared to me in my AP's and OBE's. He has pulled me threw a tunnel 2 times and at the end of it was holding a dove in his palm which he let loose. He looks exactly like what the art pictures display of him. As far as my certainty; I know it was him and I know he is real. It is a power I have never felt before and it is wonderful!
2.I have traveled back to WWII a few times. On all occasions i was a young soldier, not American, as i am now. To travel to a past time at will is very easy. It is a matter of mentally projecting yourself. You will see things of the past and interact with people of that era, but what you are actually seeing is the memories of the souls that lived in that time.
3.That I would not know the answer to. I do however think that our souls do not become trapped inside our bodies during a coma. According to what I have read these people think they were asleep. Sleep for me and others that obe and ap is a life of spiritual freedom.
4.I have had nights that I ap'd all night long. Upon waking it seemed like I was asleep for only moments. Time perception in the astral is so unlike the physical.
5.Of the 21 years I have been flying around in the astral I have very rarely seen the same place twice. I don't think it is impossible, but it would be hard to do since once we enter the ap are imaginations are set free.
Time for a dissenting opinion-
I would be VERY wary of experiences involving Jesus or GOD in the "Astral" due to the fact that many of the experiences, probably 99.99%, happened in Focus 2 (of Frank's model of consciousness). If you are new I would read everything by Frank in the Permanent Astral topics and the Astral FAQ's.
Basically, in Focus 2 (or what the mystics used to call the "Astral") what ever you think about becomes reality. Now ask yourself, why is this? Well, the mystics used to say "like attracts Like" and that is why if you think of Jesus he appears. Lets think about this in a more rational way. What Frank, and many others, have concluded is that you are actually projecting into you own subconscious mind, and naturally whatever you think about becomes reality. Frank has done EXTENSIVE research into this area and has finally shed some light in this dark area of consciousness.
This idea is slow to gain a foothold due to all the "Flat Earth" OBE'rs out there, but don't fret because Frank is coming out with an Ebook soon that will clarify much of this theory. In the mean time take EVERYTHING you read here with a big grain of salt
Han Solo
Wow thanks everyone for taking the time to reply to my questions! Someone asked what difference did it matter what color Jesus skin is and it doesn't matter. What I'm wondering is if the real Jesus had an appearance like is so often potrayed in movies with blue eyes, light skin or if he looked more jewish with darker skin. I'm extremely skeptical of Jesus even being on the astral plane. Hans mentioned that focus 2 theory or whatever and that sounds logical so I will check it out in the faqs he recommended.
Anyone else time travel in the astral? I understand if you went back into time it wouldn't actually be time traveling back in the real physical world but still fascinating nevertheless. I wonder if someone could go back to see Jesus crucified or if they could see who shot JFK. :P
Has anyone made good friends with beings/people on the astral plane? If so how do you ever see them again? Just think about them??
Thanks again for your help everyone and I'm busy reading as much as I can on these forums. I feel like I'm studying for a college class with all this info and I know I will be rewarded for doing my homework on this amazing subject.
Sorry hun, i'm afraid I can't read pink on white, it hurts xx
It's not violet anymore "hun" so now you can read it dear and perhaps write something more interesting. :P
I am concerned about this "Frank is god" mentality in some of these posts. This "Wait for Franks book and then ye will see the light" thing.
This "the word Astral is too mystical sounding. Get with the program will you. Its now called XXX"
This "take everything anybody here says with a grain of salt". Except for what Frank says you mean?
This is all a bit worrying to me.
What is most disturbing is how people are shooting down other peoples experiences as if it doesn't matter. :cry:
Havent you learned anything? There is no truth, but the the truth you find yourself.
Oh, that is too mystical sounding again isn't it? :roll:
I do not want to make enemies here, but I am just a bit concerned about this.
Quote from: runlola~
I've noticed that many of Hans posts sound like that, so get used to it.
heh
Han, you should be the Sales & Marketing Director for the Phasing Module
:P
:wink: I see. I was not refering to anybody specifically.
I can get used to many things, except people who disregard other's experiences out of hand - especially within this highly subjective realm we are moving in here.
Anyway, this is off topic so Ill just leave it right there and move on.
Yeah, Han's posts sound like it and so do mine. It doesn't have anything to do with shooting people down.
When you've had experiences and then you find a paradigm that better explains and clears up those experiences, you begin relating things to that. It's like going from a 5-letter alphabet to a 10-letter. Better ability to describe things.
I believe, as do others, that Frank's "Focus 2" is an important revelation, and makes clear a lot of what before was vague, or an accept-everything mentality. Frank is probably far from the first to make this discovery, but it is the newest iteration of it in the newest terminology. Perhaps "Maya" is a preferable term (although it doesn't fit into the model very well, but bear with me)?
Absolutely, personal experiences count for a lot. Don't get me wrong here. I am jealous of people having these experiences.
Think of it as differing schools of thought - if this were a psychology board, it would be, "Oh, you Jung folks, preaching his gospel".
The real issue is: How is it possible for Jesus and atheists, Baal, Pan, demons and angels and faeries to manifest in astral experiences? What kind of reality is this? It's not. It's utter chaos if all these experiences are valid objective realities. But yet these experiences do exist. What does that mean?
Frank suggests an answer, puts forth a working model. What do you suggest the reality of all this is?
Ahem..could we stay on topic please? I for one haven't the foggiest idea who or what Frank is but I'm learning. I see people talking about F-something or locale something and it's confusing as hell. I just want to have fun whenever or if I ever astral travel and I don't want it to be rocket science! lol! I don't care about that stuff one bit for all those who do it does boil down to one thing..your own personal experience and what it means to you.
If you don't care about the nature of reality, you just want to have fun and fantasy, then dreaming is sufficient. But, for me, we dream all our lives - I became interested in OBEs because I wanted to become Aware of the wider reality.
You are right, though, we have gone a bit off topic.
So I'll answer one of your questions (the only one I think I can answer satisfactorily). From my journal:
I had a lot of nightmares. In one of these, my dream began shifting toward nightmare, and a part of me realized I didn't have to lose control to this. I became lucid and started shouting, "I'm alseep!" over and over.
For the last 6 months in lucid dreams I have been unable to get out of the dream.
Anyway, in my dream I saw my little sister run past. I ran after her to tell her I was asleep. She ran into a room. I got an idea and decided that I would run through the wall. As I ran toward the wall, I remember thinking as the wall came really close, "This is going to hurt!" But I submerged into the wall. It was the strangest sensation!
Then I was laying on my bed. I knew I wasn't "awake" from my last series of experiences with false awakenings. I was in the RTZ. My bedroom looked exactly as it would right now - with one exception.
There was a thing standing at my bedside where my fan should have been. It was bending at an impossible angle over the top of me. It looked ghostly, not exactly white, but more dim. Those ghosts that you see in Grade School classrooms in October describe its shape pretty well, except it had sleeves where arms should be, and on it's face it had a large black carat ( ^ ). It made a strange rattling sound.
I was paralyzed and terrified. I almost tried yelling at it like before when I heard the ghost woman, but instead I stopped and remembered a post on this forum Gav made. Instead, I became curious and began to observe the thing. It didn't go away.
But pretty quickly the RTZ situation transitioned flawlessly into the waking world, only now my fan was back and I could hear it.
Mac, you have no right to presume anything about what kind of astral travel I want. Yes I want to have fun if I ever astral travel and be very lucid and explore whatever it is out there. I am not aware in my dreams nor do I have any kind of control so there is no point to that is there? You can't tell me what's right for me in regard to astral travel. We are all different. I'm offended by your answer.
control and awarenes in obes is much like dream control... if you do one, you'll most likely be able to do the other.
Nothertheless, I can see why you'd prefer to have fun in a world that includes real beings as opposed to beings from your own imagination (not to mention that you can probably run into stuff your brain would have never come up with in the astral as opposed to a dream).
hahaha your name is latinasarecute. hahahaha.
anyway, il put it short and sweet for you- read franks posts and ignore everyone else. really. for your own sake. Major Tom is a good guy too, as with alot of others, but for quickr results, just read read read.
if you listen to all the whacked out people on these boards you will be fighting demons and devils and wearing 'crystals' and chanting prayers to allah.
you dont need any of that crap. just simplify the process, and you will get quick results. THAT is what franks model is all about. he doesnt have anything against the mystics or shamans, he just doesnt want to deal with the holier-than-thou attitude that most of these people possess. 'astral projection' is a tool that everyone should learn to use, not just some mystical dude who thinks hes a wolf or something.
Take it from me- learn how to project into F2oC(your mind) and there you can literally go on to do anything you want. just dont buy into any stupid beliefs- christianity being one of them.
ps- if my post offended anybody, get a life.
Nah, I think I will continue to read other people's posts and make up my own mind about who's whacked out or not. :P
Still not there myself.
Surely it's not in our heads when people have see clear events in the RTZ that have actually happened or are real. Hence, it is "astral projection" not some mental construct in our minds.
Besides does it matter what it's called.
Personally I prefer "astral" to some Number f2 or whatever it is !
You don't have to be mystical to appreciate or use the word Astral over a number. No wonder people are confused, if we called everything in daily like based on basic letters and numbers life would be very confusing.
Can't we stick to the old cool names - it doesn't mean you are Mystical or anything or into old skool mumbo jumbo.
It's confusing for newbies as it is, why riun a perfectly good set of old skool names?
I mean I like names like chakras, astral even the modern word "obe"
all kinda cool! Far more inspiring and memorable than f1, f2,f3 and alt+f4 marlaky. People should really chill.
Think of it as a skin on a winamp we all have our preferences you don't have to be religious to have preferences.
I blame robert monroe he should have given new states of mind new names rather than numbers - heck Frank really running with the number theme.
f2 is better called internal projection=IP (bit like what OBE works, you noe it's short for a longer phrase) or something like that - that way you don't have to look it up, and people can pick it up. Can we have more words that mean something, then shorten to letters. Numbers mean nothing to newbies frank!
Now I have to read all monroes books just to see why he started using numbers - certainly got frank inspired to run with it.
ANyone willing to come up wih decent names? the number still confuse the hell out of me. I still keep thinking damn, what's 2 mean again?
Better if it was IAP (Internal Astral Projection) or something like that.
Heck this isn't maths textbook you can't describe OBE Astral stuff as numbers surely!
;-)
ok let's start
AP = Astral Projection
DILD = Dream-Initiated Lucid Dream
FA = False Awakening
IRL = In Real Life
IWL = In Waking Life
LD = Lucid Dream
MILD = Mnemonic Induction of Lucid Dreams
NDE = Near Death Experience
RC = Reality Check
SP = Sleep Paralysis
WILD = Wake-Initiated Lucid Dreams
OBE = :-)
OOBE = :-)
MABA= Mind Awake / Body Asleep
Can any one extend the above to include phasing - ** WITHOUT NUMBERS ** only letters!!!????
PLEASE !!!!
I'll start with my limited grasp so far, Is this CORRECT?
Mind Awake Body Asleep = MABA = Focus 10.
This in the new model, you'd always use MABA where you write Focus 10.
Mind Awake Body Asleep = FOCUS TEN...
Quote from: LatinasAreCuteNah, I think I will continue to read other people's posts and make up my own mind about who's whacked out or not. :P
well excrement with a name like "latinasarecute" on an ASTRAL PROJECTION FORUM how whacked out can ya be!
really man, what was the thought process behind that one?
I love this place.
Quote from: Ben KQuote from: LatinasAreCuteNah, I think I will continue to read other people's posts and make up my own mind about who's whacked out or not. :P
well excrement with a name like "latinasarecute" on an ASTRAL PROJECTION FORUM how whacked out can ya be!
really man, what was the thought process behind that one?
I love this place.
Well, I have to disagree.
Latins are Cute. Very cute indeed, I honestly can say no other type of lady turns me on as much. I mean Nelly Furtardo is one shining example....
My idea of heaven would be surrounded by latin women and well kept ;-)
So I take it the only person around here who knows what all these numbers mean is Frank!
Quote from: BillionNamesofGodSo I take it the only person around here who knows what all these numbers mean is Frank!
The numbers are just symbols, they don't have any meaning in and of themselves. I think it's far easier to refer to the different focuses of consciousness by numbers rather than to try label them with words. I think that would get extremely unwieldy!
And yet I have a very good
idea of what each one
represents. I'm not some expert--I just learned by reading the phasing posts on the forums, especially the ones on the Astral FAQ. It's not that hard to get an idea of what each Focus represents... but expressing them in words is something else.
Think of it, what if you tried to express complex mathematics in words instead of symbols? How would you describe "pi," for example? The Focus numbers are just symbols for much more complex things. See what I mean?
Ben K,
Quotewell excrement with a name like "latinasarecute" on an ASTRAL PROJECTION FORUM how whacked out can ya be!
just as Ben K - what kinda of excrement with a name is that? Geez, just like everyone elses name on this board.
BillionNamesofGod,
Is your wife latina? Yes, I agree latina's are very cute. Muy Bonita la muijers del mexico y spain.
Tvos
Oh really... can we think of nothing better to do than make fun of people's user names? And while I'm at it, I just
have to respond to this:
Quote from: Ben Kjust dont buy into any stupid beliefs- christianity being one of them.
Well, to me, Christianity is anything but a "stupid belief." But then, I wouldn't consider myself a typical Christian, or even a typical Catholic. ;) I think of Christianity as a set of really good ideas and really good morals for
Earthly life When I say Christianity, I don't just mean the Bible, I mean the entire tradition, from the Bible writers to C.S. Lewis to my parish priest to all of my own family and friends.
For example, one of my favorite stories is of St. Brendan's voyage. It may not be "true," but its meaning and its significance are--his faith inspired him to embark on a voyage into the rough seas and unknown dangers west of Ireland, at a time when the earth was considered flat and Ireland was one of the farthest known lands. I like to consider myself as following a little in his footsteps. In the same way, my faith inspires me to voyage into the unknown--and there's no better way to do so than astral projection. :) So, while I'm a Christian, I don't let it interfere with my experiences of the world or the universe. I believe we are meant to go out, explore, and try to piece together some kind of truth.
So, you can't pass any kind of mass judgment on Christianity, or any other way of living or thinking, for that matter. We might all be on different paths, but they lead to something common--otherwise we wouldn't all be here, right? :)
Quote from: Almost Mrs. MurphyOh really... can we think of nothing better to do than make fun of people's user names? And while I'm at it, I just have to respond to this:
Well, the only reply was about alias names! I don't see you volunteering
to help describe phasing to newbies? Sounds as if it's too difficult for you!
Rather than go off topic entirely, why not try to help us newbies? I think the only people who get it are Frank and the great Robert Monroe! Please someone come forward with non numeric descriptions oh phasing levels for newbies please....
Not a good idea to divert the thread to religion - you know it's not worth going there - this entire earth history and wars is based on religious beliefs... I prefer to respect other's religious beliefs -but then I'm probably one of the 0.000000001 % of people in the world that are able to. It's a non starter - honestly. Everyone has their religious beliefs and you aren't going to change anyone mind about thier regligious beliefs - best to respect people's religious beliefs.
Back on topic - to phasing into for newbies.
Quote from: Almost Mrs. Murphy
Think of it, what if you tried to express complex mathematics in words instead of symbols? How would you describe "pi," for example? The Focus numbers are just symbols for much more complex things. See what I mean?
QED.
the best way to describe a fractional number is with an *alias*...
hmmm.... like " PI " !! Just like you did. You didn't write some numbe did you? People know exactly what you mean when you say " PI " -it's well defined. That's what we need for phasing - we don't have it.
You see mathemnatics is full of words to represent numbers - it works, it's called alegbra or variables.
Now let's apply some good variables to describe phasing levels.
Remember this is for *newbies*. (note the title of the thread)
If I sound arrogant - I'm sorry, I'm amazed no-one here can describe phasing levels in sensible english for newbies.
I mean how can us newbies join frank's phasing club if we don't know what the h*ll is going on most of the time? - I mean it sounds fascinating and all, but pointless if newbies don't get it. Even if frank does write his book I'm sure it'll make no sense to newbies. What frank or someone needs to do is be more concise and accurate and define things properly, with a solid foundation. I don't class my self as a newbie, but I still don't know what the hells going on in phasing topics. Need to keep things simple for newbies. At least I knew where I stood with mystical approach - every uses the same terminology - this is what phasing needs.
Anyone up for the challege?
(Frank: if you reply please not a giant essay please I'm confused enough!)
;-)
People, people.
I am not debating the hotness of latina girls in the least. In fact there are many attractive latinas. Like J-Lo. What I AM debating is the choice to use said name at a forum devoted to "Astral Projection". While said name might be a common one at say, a video game message board or a drug message board, I find it odd that someone registered using said nick name.
The reason I find this odd is simple. When choosing a nick name, there are a couple common through processes that take place among humans. We might use our real name, we might use a name that has to do with a cartoon character. We might use our mothers name.
Not once have I seen a name on the internet so out of place as "LatinasAreCute" on the Astral Pulse message board. I find humor in this fact.
And yes, I can pass judgement on christianity. it is a stupid idea used to control people and has no place in todays society. Bottom line. God is a stupid idea. Christianity leads to being stuck in stupid constructs and ideas, no spiritual values whatsoever.
Quote from: BillionNamesofGodI don't see you volunteering to help describe phasing to newbies? Sounds as if it's too difficult for you!
I'm still a newbie too, and I learned by reading the phasing posts on the Astral FAQ, especially
this one (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17413). I don't see a need to repeat what's there. I thought you were talking about the way it uses numbers to
label the different parts of the model--my answer was that it's a lot easier to use numbers than words to label them, because using words would get out of hand and be much more confusing.
In order to find out what the labels refer to, you just have to read, read, read, experience, experience, experience. I agree, it is difficult, and there is no fast, easy way to learn the model. It takes essays to describe it. That's why I spend 99% of my time on the forums reading and studying and reviewing. It's as good as being back in grad school--of course, I loved being in grad school. ;)
Also keep in mind that
you don't have to know or agree with the model in order to phase. I phased before I even knew what phasing was. The model is just a description of what people have found when they phase. If you haven't phased before, then you can also find plenty posts on how to get started (especially the noticing exercise, which is also described in that post I linked above). I know you're probably sick to death of hearing it, but read the Astral FAQ and the Astral Permanent topics. One read-through probably won't be enough.
Quote from: Ben KChristianity leads to being stuck in stupid constructs and ideas, no spiritual values whatsoever.
All I'm saying is that there are always
exceptions--is that so hard to believe? I don't fit with your opinion of Christianity, in that I definitely
do have spiritual values, and I have zero tolerance for stupid constructs and ideas. And I'm not the first or only one, believe it or not.
ANYWAY... Sorry guys, I thought I was being helpful, but apparently not. And OK, the Christianity thing was just me feeling miffed at being lumped in with what I consider an overly broad and injust stereotype. I'm sorry for that too, but what can I say, I was just in the right mood. And these days, I tend not to bother with censoring myself. Chalk it up to old age, "girl problems," or whatever you will.
Honestly, skip the religion stuff, it's not worth debating - learn to respect other people religious beliefs, this is not the place to start a slanging over some as basic as Christian vs Athiest - honestly I expected some more intelligent discussion. All we are getting here is what type of chicks are cool, and centuries old religious haggling - can we get over it?
Quote from: Almost Mrs. MurphyQuote from: BillionNamesofGodI don't see you volunteering to help describe phasing to newbies? Sounds as if it's too difficult for you!
In order to find out what the labels refer to, you just have to read, read, read, experience, experience, experience. I agree, it is difficult, and there is no fast, easy way to learn the model. It takes essays to describe it. That's why I spend 99% of my time on the forums reading and studying and reviewing. It's as good as being back in grad school--of course, I loved being in grad school. ;)
Quote from: Ben KChristianity leads to being stuck in stupid constructs and ideas, no spiritual values whatsoever.
All I'm saying is that there are always exceptions--is that so hard to believe? I don't fit with your opinion of Christianity, <snip>
Great then, very helpful, thanks! A sign of education is being able to teach others. (habits of successful people - steven covey)
It's like me saying have you read this book, and you say yes.
Then I say, can you give me a summary?
And you say, no! And tell me to go away and spent my entire life reading tonnes of frankly (sorry about the pun) not very well written long winded faqs etc.
Great answer then - spend 99% on these forum, or was that not really an answer at all! What the h*ll do you think w'eve been doing?
:-(
So, no one prepared to even summarise each phase level, with a few paragraphs? - so clearly this is impossible stuff for newbies.
It can be done.
:-(
Ben K,
Just because you sit behind a computer screen with your thoughts, beliefs, ideas and preference doesn't make you the captain of the ship to tell others what nickname they can or can't use. Along with the comment about people's belief structure and Christianity. I attend church, I do follow God and Christ - does that make me a bad person no? I support AMM and BNOG for coming forward on this.
Using a name like "LatinasAreCute" is original as "Ben K" and they both don't have nothing to do with a metaphysical name linked to astral projection. Just like Frank, Adrian, etc... Why don't you dish on them and see how far your respect is earned.
In all honestly, I prefer the old method "Astral Projection" then phasing. I understand the concept between the different focus levels, but this doesn't make me right or wrong. Its all in beliefs, preferences, and how WE all can come together to make a difference. This whole forum is suppose to be a learning experience, helping each other on their paths and digging at the truth about this reality.
Next time, think before you write.
Tvos
Billion Names of God, and all:
OK, let's try this once more, slowly, since it seems I'm not making myself clear.
First, I didn't say you had to devote your entire life to reading the forums (I spend maybe a few hours a day at most). I also didn't say that my religion is the only right one, I was arguing against judging entire groups of people. I may not understand other religions, or atheism, but you would never hear me saying they're stupid, or that their followers are all idiots.
I did tell you I'm new at phasing too, and I told you what I did to learn. It worked well for me--book-learning is my strength. If you've already read everything by Frank, or others, and still need help, then I apologize. I've just gotten jaded by people always wanting me to do their learning for them and serve it up neatly on a platter--I get it all the time, especially at work, but in most other areas of my life.
As my "penance," I'll summarize it the best way I can, though I'm probably not going to make much better sense of it, and though I am very far from being an expert.
Focus 1 (F1)---the physical world. Our "primary" focus of consciousness while we're "alive" on Earth.
Focus 2 (F2)---our individual "unconscious" mind. Where imagination, daydreaming, dreaming, etc. take place. In this focus our "environment" responds to our own thoughts, desires, wishes, and fears. What has traditionally been called "the astral" exists in F2.
Focus z (Fz)---the "3-d blackness" or "void" that exists on the border of F2 and F3.
Focus 3 (F3)---the "transition area" where we go once we "die." Includes various afterlife "scenarios" created by various cultures, religions, etc. Heavens, hells, all that jazz. The "higher" realms, however, are free of any belief-system influence, and this is where the real "transition" occurs... we evolve more into pure spirits, lose all "form" such as bodies.
Focus 4 (F4)---where we exist as pure consciousness, with no form. As I understand it, this is sort of like the "nervous system" of everything. All our consciousnesses are entertwined, it's more communal, less individual. I think this area requires much more exploration.
So, there we have it. Anyone who feels like tearing it to shreds can post their own bloody summary. :P
AMM,
Try being in the field of Tech Support Analyst and having a certain friend that "think" they know it all about computers, but they still come to you asking for novice and high leveled problems. After awhile, ya just want to scream!
Anyways, my point is that no one can know everything and assume that they do - like the comment about religion from Ben K. We are all still learning and barely scrapped the surface of astral projection.
Tvos
Thanks, TVOS.
Yikes, tech support. :shock: I can only imagine. And why do library patrons get soooo upset when you hand them books?!
They actually expected me to read for them--while I was the only reference staff on hand, the phones were ringing, I was eye-deep in complex research for others, people were calling me over to fix the computers they'd crashed, AND I had to chase down errant children whose parents thought I was their personal nanny.
I never quite screamed, though I occasionally spoke very sharply. Fortunately, I'm a cataloger now and never have to see patrons. :) I earned my stripes, though. *sigh*
But yeah---people aren't going to drop their belief structures overnight. Right now, I don't see why religion and metaphysics can't coexist and complement each other. If my astral experiences change that, then great. If not, fine. Who does it hurt?
As for more traditional projection and phasing... they get you to the same "destinations", don't they? I'm just the opposite of you... I tried for years to get out of body the "old way." It just frustrated me and I threw up my hands. I truly think it has to do with whether a person is naturally "extroverted" or "introverted." It's second nature for me to "fall inside" myself, but murder for me to "go outside."
Quote from: the voice of silenceBen K,
Just because you sit behind a computer screen with your thoughts, beliefs, ideas and preference doesn't make you the captain of the ship to tell others what nickname they can or can't use. Along with the comment about people's belief structure and Christianity. I attend church, I do follow God and Christ - does that make me a bad person no? I support AMM and BNOG for coming forward on this.
When did i try to tell him what nickname to use? And i dont care about your psuedo-christian beliefs, im referring to actual christians who go to church and believe that there is a man in the sky watching over them.
QuoteUsing a name like "LatinasAreCute" is original as "Ben K" and they both don't have nothing to do with a metaphysical name linked to astral projection. Just like Frank, Adrian, etc... Why don't you dish on them and see how far your respect is earned.
Actually, Ben K is my actual name, so it would be a logical choice for a nick name on a forum. And im not looking for anyones respect.
QuoteIn all honestly, I prefer the old method "Astral Projection" then phasing. I understand the concept between the different focus levels, but this doesn't make me right or wrong. Its all in beliefs, preferences, and how WE all can come together to make a difference. This whole forum is suppose to be a learning experience, helping each other on their paths and digging at the truth about this reality.
Next time, think before you write.
Tvos
Astral Projection is just another method of phasing. "Phasing" refers to the "switch" you make from physical to non physical. Astral Projection is basically phasing with extra unneccessery crap on the side.
Im not trying to be rude, just honest.
QuoteI was eye-deep in complex research for others
Ooh. Maybe someday instead of a public library, you'll be in a rare book store and it'll be like the 9th Gate or something. It seems like researchers into old rare books always have exciting things happen to them. Research is really cool, though. Google is great and all, but it's not like being in some remote, dark corner of a library pulling dusty old volumes out of a top shelf ...
QuoteAstral Projection is basically phasing with extra unneccessery crap on the side.
I'm not sure it is unnecessary. It's hard to say what is necessary and what is not for one individual over another. Maybe for one person deep physical relaxation isn't necessary (or maybe they don't realize how easily they've come to deeply relax or forgotten how they got there). Sometimes I suspect that Frank's phasing methods are
too simplified, maybe it discounts all the steps that it takes to get where the process is that streamlined.
To each his own.
I think and feel what ever gets that person to the other side - phasing, the mechanics of the astral projection Go For It! Everyone is different and not everyone can put themselves into a trance state within 5-10mins or use a rope technique, phase.. We all learn differently and it boils down to "just getting" there. Isn't that hard enough!
I do have to agree with Mactombs on this one. How would we truly know what is needed and missed along the way. A good analogy would be with Mp3's. This technology has dominated the world. We can fit more on a cd, sd media, ipod of music. Compress the audio signal from a .wav to .mp3 so it can be easily transferred via Internet. It saves space and the quality is amazing. But if you listen to .wav file against a 320kbps mp3 you will hear a slight difference in quality. So its possible with phasing, if using the same analogy as Ben K said, the unnecessary crap is removed - you truly might be losing "quality" from the phasing or parts of the experience to make you whole.
Tvos
Quote from: mactombsOoh. Maybe someday instead of a public library, you'll be in a rare book store and it'll be like the 9th Gate or something. It seems like researchers into old rare books always have exciting things happen to them. Research is really cool, though. Google is great and all, but it's not like being in some remote, dark corner of a library pulling dusty old volumes out of a top shelf ...
Happily, I now work at a very fine university library, and I catalog mostly 19th century serials (almanacs, journals, magazines, catalogs, conference proceedings, etc.). They are very interesting! I love looking at the almanacs and magazines. I've also cataloged old documents from various Masonic orders--just mundane type stuff, but still interesting. You would love the closed stacks in our special collections library--very dark, crowded, and labyrinthine! I got to go back there to look for something one day, and felt like I was a treasure hunter or something. :D Actually, I thought I was never going to make it back out! :lol:
Quote from: the voice of silenceI think and feel what ever gets that person to the other side - phasing, the mechanics of the astral projection Go For It!
I think that's right! I think the important thing is to find the way that works best for you and be thankful! I was so discouraged by OBE, but now that I've found phasing, I'm just glad that I've found
A way to project! I am sure that I might be missing out on special experiences that can be had with OBE, but it's just in the same way that there are things you miss out on when you travel by plane as opposed to car, and vice versa. The important thing is that you leave one place and end up somewhere else, and get to enjoy whichever transportation you can avail yourself of. :)
QuoteI suppose one could say it has simplified matters, but by trying to boil it down to the essentials of a very complicated phenomenon that is more thorough than anything else out there that I'm aware of.
No, what I mean by too simplified is the process that gets you from C1 to F2. I'm talking pragmatics. I understand Frank's emphasis on not adhering to techniques and so forth ... it's hard to explain.
Let's try this: lie down, get comfortable, just notice. Well, you can be noticing for a long time and not be anywhere close to the colored blobs of F12 other people will notice. F10 is below F12, and F10 is serious relaxation when you think that your body is literally
asleep. So, just lying down and getting comfortable for me doesn't even begin to cover it. F10 is a major, major achievement for me, and it is a whole lot more than getting comfortable.
I think for phasing, before engaging all the senses, it is important to be deeply relaxed, as in at an F12 state. For some people that comes naturally, maybe they do just lay down, but for me, getting to a state where I can even think of getting anywhere besides frustrated with myself, I need to learn relaxation first.
I hope this makes sense.
For
Quote"runlola"
and
Quote"Almost Mrs. Murphy"
Thanks very very much for your post oh phasing levels for newbies,
incredibly useful indeed!
Thanks again - really helped a lot, more than all the stuff I've read so far, sometimes it just takes someone to summarise something, and help kick start good research. That's the goal of a say a Physics Teacher or someone teaching something complex.
Teaching is a skill a very complex skill in it self, even picking the right bits to cut and paste. Gives you an idea how difficult writing a book is. (no wonder frank can't do his book, he's stuck on the basics of explaining phasing probably!!)
Thanks! This is a good start, if anyone else can describe their interpretition of phasing levels, now are really getting somewhere!
:-)
Quote from: Major TomMactombs,
That's true. It's not that easy.
The whole phasing or projection thing is still an art. Perhaps a world of information won't ever be enough to make it fire-proof.
I myself have tremendous difficulty trasnitioning to F2 or 12, and basically rely on the sleeping-waking border at night to help me out. Luckily, that works out pretty well for me.
Focus F2: Mind awake - Body Asleep - MABA
Focus 12: A state of expanded awareness
Can you expand? Surely getting to MABA is clearly documented?
I really have no idea what you mean by "A state of expanded awareness "
you see you sentence is highly confusing for 90% of people here I'm sure.
Can you attempt to expand?
QuoteI really have no idea what you mean by "A state of expanded awareness "
Honestly, I don't know what it means either. I kind of think it's one of those things that you'll know once you've experienced it and say, "oh, that's a great way to phrase it".
QuoteFocus F2: Mind awake - Body Asleep - MABA
Actually, MABA is F10. It's Monroe's. He says himself he doesn't know why they called it F10. It is kind of confusing, but it grows on you.
QuoteThe whole phasing or projection thing is still an art. Perhaps a world of information won't ever be enough to make it fire-proof.
That is true, Major Tom. An experience is worth 100,000 words. There's a lot of experimentation you have to be willing to take on, and you have to be willing to let go of adhering to what other people say and just jump in.
Quote from: Major TomQuote from: BillionNamesofGod
Can you expand? Surely getting to MABA is clearly documented?
Hi Billion, here you are:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13644&start=0
Mactombs is correct btw...focus 10 is maba. Read the phasing topics in faq section also, which should answer your questions.
Good luck.
Jesus Christ , I've read that before, and I actually got confused again see what I mean??
Honestly !
Quote from: Major TomMactombs,
I myself have tremendous difficulty trasnitioning to F2 or 12, and basically rely on the sleeping-waking border at night to help me out. Luckily, that works out pretty well for me.
Jesus, why not just say:-
" I myself have tremendous difficulty trasnitioning to the Astral Plane or an expanded state of conciousness. "
At least that way newbies, don't have look up numbers...
OK, I get the Astral Plan bit, that's well documented but what is this:
" an expanded state of conciousness" ???
I wish some more people would come out and also admit they don't really understand 50%+ of phasing talk. Never had this problem with occult/mystical labels -they just make sense.
what about a visual diagram? anyone up for that? like a mind-map?
(I love mind maps)
I've read the faqs etc, I need some mnemonic !! If was sitting a exam on phasing talk I would fail miserably.
I mean I know I'd pass one about mystical occult names - I mean, they are real easy to grasp.
I admit, I am also having a hard time with the phasing terminology, things like F10 sound so generic to me and hard to figure out, though I am trying to figure it out.
M
Billion Names of God and all:
Good, I'm glad I finally got at what you wanted to know. :) I think we just kept misunderstanding each other.
Regarding MABA, I don't know about documentation, but what I do to start is lie still on my back. This is not my usual sleeping posture but I still get as comfortable as possible... I usually have to roll up my pillow beneath my neck in order to ease tension there. I will often have to massage my face, head, and neck, and rub my eyes to work out as much tension there as I can.
Even if I'm not perfectly "relaxed," I just breathe deeply, close my eyes, and "watch" the backs of my eyelids. Sometimes I'll begin seeing hypnogogic imagery within minutes, and once that happens, I start "losing contact" with my body and "retreat" into my head.
However, there are sometimes problems, the most common of which is disengaging the physical eyes so that they don't open or try to focus on the images or move around. When that happens, I do a little exercise described here (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=173042&highlight=#173042) (start wtih the second paragraph).
After I've been in MABA for a little while, I will usually fall into what I suppose is the state of expanded awareness. I'll try to explain what that is like for me. For one thing, it is a very noticable change. You feel it "wash over you." I say that because to me it usually feels like a wave, and my mind does this undulating sort of "motion." It's very distinct, but really quite pleasant!
Once the "wave" goes by, I become more aware than before that I'm totally in my mind, and can't sense my body at all. It feels like I am in a much "wider" space. It's like driving out of a forest and finding yourself on a mountain top, with nothing but huge sky around you. :) It really does almost make you say, "WOW, I've entered a state of expanded awareness"! I guess that's where the label came from. But I agree that it's not much help to just read that description.
At this point, the rather amorphous hypnogogic imagery is replaced by much more distinct forms. Usually fuzzy, but I can still make out geometric shapes, human shapes, building shapes, tree shapes, etc. And every so often, I'll catch quick snatches of very sharp, vivid images. This phenomenon, called "clicks" by another user, is discussed a bit here (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=173109&highlight=#173109).
Getting to the "clicks" is about as far as I've gotten so far. I've been practicing for about 2 months at consciously initiating phasing. And sometimes I get pretty far, and sometimes I don't. Within maybe the last couple of weeks, I've gotten to where I can "hold on" to the clicks for longer. I think that is the key to phasing. Eventually, I will be able to "phase into" or immerse myself in whatever I'm seeing, hearing, feeling.
Well, I hope that helps some. Again, these are just my experiences, things may go differently for others, and others may have a harder or easier time of it. But I think I mentioned that I had absolutely no luck with more "traditional" OBE projection. And I tried for years! Just don't get discouraged. I believe that we will each find our own way, our own "means of transportation" to get to the astral.
Good luck y'all! :D
PS. If you'd like to read about some "spontaneous" projection experiences I've had, I posted a little list here (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=174207&highlight=#174207), for another user.
Thanks " Almost Mrs. Murphy " that's a fantastic post, you truely have a gift here - I completely understand everything you wrote!
This clicks stuff is very interesting.
I wonder is a "state of expanded awareness" similar to descriptions of people in the ASTRAL who an see all around at once, or sense being
at two places at once.
It's as if the astral or obe body ( I was about to write phasing body there!) has vision and sense all around in a sphere, and is getting input from all directions at once, and you can choose what input/angle to focus on.!
"clicks"--very brief, random, vivid sensations, while in MABA.
QuoteIt's as if the astral or obe body ( I was about to write phasing body there!) has vision and sense all around in a sphere, and is getting input from all directions at once, and you can choose what input/angle to focus on.!
I have read about what you're describing... Where it's like you can see in 360 degrees. Sounds cool. :) I imagine people who phase can do the same thing, though I've not experienced it.
People who phase have "astral bodies" too, or at least I do. I can see it and feel it around me. Except for that one crazy experience where I was just a disembodied observer... now that was really bizarre! I felt so naked! :lol: I still don't really know what that was all about...
From what I've read, I think that any time you project, your mind may create an astral body for you, and that you can change it or get rid of it at will. I don't think that an astral body is really
necessary but I think that having a body is very deeply ingrained in us. We get in the habit of associating our selves with our bodies, we get used to needing a body in order to interact with our environment... but in the astral world, a body is not important.
I think I'll prefer having a body for the time being. :)