does anybody know of any scientific explanation for the vibrational state. I ask because I know it is real, i have experienced this very intensly, I wonder if science sees it as physiological of pshycological. Any ideas?
Some time ago Upstream gave me what I consider was the best explanation for vibrations that I have heard. I would pm him and invite him to take a stab at it.
And yes, I do believe they are 'real', that is, a non-subjective experience.
I don't think there is a scientific explination for these vibrations. If there is i would like to see. However my guess would be its psychological. If it were physical i would have to buy new beds occasionally :lol:
I'd say they are part of the physiology of your astral or etheric body. I know your physical body stays still when you are experiencing vibrations so one would assume science would struggle to explain something that it cannot measure.
I woudn't say it's entirely psychological because something is definately happening, unless all of us are suffering from the same delusion?
-AM
I think I have a good explanation. Plain and simply it's some form of matter that is shaken by some form of sound.
let me explain, everytime when i sleep on my back or when my sleep is disturbed and I get up and go back to sleep on my back. A few moments before the vibrations start I hear this unearthly and strange buzzing I don't know the best words to hint to you what it is, if your familiar with Tinitus then I am sure you know the sound I am talking about, except that this Tinitus sound is amplified 100 times and its radiating through my whole skull, not just my ears, and probably my whole body, maybe whats causing the whole body to vibrate is that sound. Because I know when I hear that sound and am conscious and paralyzed that I am in that state. At the same time as the vibrations and paralysis, I feel pressure in different spots of the body moving around constantly as if it's a circle of pressure that just pops up from anywhere it wants. I also notice different parts of my face pulling forward. I swear to God I feel another part of myself under myskin pulling forward and moving. It is undeniable, it is not a dream if I get in that paralysis state, I can distinguish it from a dream because in dreams, my face and different parts of my body don't just get pulled and vibrated like that. I know there is something more to our physical self then science can detect. I know there is something inside of us. They are already aware of dark matter so they are on good progress. That pulling sesation is wavy kind of sensation. What ever it is that we are under this physical body, I know it has properties of wave. some form of energy that has no shape except for the shape it can BELIEVE it can take is what i believe it to be.
Interesting you bring up this. I have been considering some sought of 'wave' explanation for OBE's of course it would not be total, but every piece of the puzzle is significant at this stage.
It has already been dabbed on before. You would of heard of "frequencies of consciousness". Possibly an area of focus in the future.
-AM
Ap Friends,
From experience and my own studies, I was able to capture myself on video camera three times during the obe state with heavy virbations at full force. My physical body remained quit, silent, and still. A few things would happen during like a limb, face gesture, but this was subtle and hardly noticable.
My best guess is that there's physical and energy body interacts with one another on a frequency not detectable by science or machinary. I will eventually like to get with my family doctor and see if I'm able to conduct further testing in the lab.
Tvos
Do you think it's futile attempting to convince people that OBE's exist?
I'm not saying don't conduct such experiments, if all the resources are available go ahead. I do wonder whether people will ever truly accept OBE's prior to the exeperience of one. That being said, I suppose the information itself could create subconscious belief leading to projection. Furthermore, it gives us a sense of satisfaction as well.
-AM
AM,
yeah I think its futile trying to convience science or the world. but to conduct your own experiments for yourself and to share with others is what's it all about. also for deeper spiritual education.
There's nothing for me to prove if there is life after death and how we are able to tap into that level of consciousness. for spiritual developement and deeper soul searching doing the work , faith and with experience is what I explain to skeptical minds.
I am also working on another interview along with a book on experiments with obes which justifies collecting the data.
tvos
Regarding vibrations, something which others seem to have little interest in is the vibrations felt on low dose DMT experiences. It's not something I've experienced myself (DMT) but descriptions sound amazingly like the OBE (electric) vibrations. Even more itneresting is the similarity between higher dose DMT experiences (full obe episodes) and full obes.
I would really like more research done into this area.
MisterJingo,
I thought that you experienced the vibrations during the obe?
My first 5-10 obe's, I didn't have any vibrations until I went over my friends house.
He had vibrations all the time, tell me about them, and how what a shock they
when first experienced.
Now, the vibes are lite, relaxing and plesant but the early days I was holding onto my
hernia belt...:)
Tvos
My experience with the vibrations go as follows,
I am asleep, usually after having trouble getting to sleep, or getting woken up then going back to sleep, I will wake up. I will feel disorientated, then the vibrations will begin, at which point I began to apply my will to exiting.
Perhaps on topic, could they link in with "tingles up your spine" at all? They remind me of a wave when they occur.
For scientific studies there would have to be something that is measureable. In this case, what would it be? Has anyone hooked themselves up to a multimeter and had the readings recorded?
-AM
I've placed a microphone into a stethoscope to conduct my experiment where I wore three times in two days where I was able to enter the trance with the vibes. Only thing that picked up was lite breathing, my heart rate slowing down from wake to trance and some snoring. No crackle, snap, or pop sounds heard.
I was talking with Major Tom and he mentioned that there were studies that were able to record (I think) the subtle vibrations and sleep parasysis. But what is interesting is that if this was proven by science, we would be hearing about this to no end of it being hullucinatory.
tvos
Quote from: the voice of silence on December 03, 2006, 01:57:50
But what is interesting is that if this was proven by science, we would be hearing about this to no end of it being hullucinatory.
tvos
Usually when something is proven scientifically it is replicated numerous times and takes a while before it is fully accepted by the scientific community. The amount of people with the resources and interest in such phenomena to perform controlled experiments laboratory conditions is unfortunately small. This can potentially hold back a lot of information for us.
Do you know what instruments were used to measure the vibrations?
Has anyone come across any studies that offer a scientific explanation AGAINST vibrations, perhaps this could be used as a vehicle for us. Perhaps we may also have a few shaking heads :lol:
-AM
my vehicle is this - do the research, experience and then draw your conclusions if it was real or not. don't base a quick judement over a few months, but years...
i'll post my findings, experiences, knowledge to share, not to prove...
tvos
I wouldnt immediately associate it with tingling in the spine, I wouldnt even place it in the same catogory. The vibrations associated with projection are infinitely more intense in my experience.
Quote from: Lysear on November 30, 2006, 12:18:19
does anybody know of any scientific explanation for the vibrational state. I ask because I know it is real, i have experienced this very intensly, I wonder if science sees it as physiological of pshycological. Any ideas?
check out the book infinite mind by valiere v. hunt good book basically she was a scientist who experiementedthe bio magnetic field and shamanic healing by using nassau's top brand machinary
I remember writing here about vibrations. I'll try to reproduce that from memory.
From my personal experience vibrations are the most "objective" aspect of an OBE. I put that in quotes, because its not purely objective, i.e. cannot be seen by others. I doubt that these can be even measured by instruments. Perhaps instruments that measure neural activity in nerves can detect something.
Objective here means that you are 100% sure that they are occurring and that they did occur (even after years) and they feel as real as other things around you in waking state.
I've experienced these kinds of vibrations :
1 - Swing : Feels like you are on a swing with your eyes closed.
2 - Earthquake : Feels as if whole bed, room and yourself are rocking gently, just like an earthquake.
3 - Pins : Tiny pins all over the body.
4 - Buzz : Just a mild buzz.
5 - Electricity : The most famous and productive. Feel like being electrocuted, but no pain. Sometimes pleasurable.
6 - Waves of electricity : These start from a corner of your body , say feet, and move to other parts in waves and soon spread.
7 - Tingle : Touch of an angel type, when someone touches back of your neck or with a feather.
8 - Lightning : Raw power of vibrations, happens when you are new to OBEing. Feels like you are dying, go out of control.
9 - Pure vibes : You'll know when they come. Sometimes a loving presence is felt, almost motherly. They result in good OBEs.
10 - Dirty vibes : You'll know when they come. Results in nothing, perhaps you are too tired or mentally disturbed.
Strongest vibrations bring you nicest OBEs. The problem is they stop occurring as you get more experienced. I don't know the reason.
I recommended neural activity measurements for a reason. I believe that vibrations occur as a result of our brains cutting off connection with sensory and motor neurons, as it fall asleep. Normally we are not aware of this, but with some OBE training its possible to keep conscious while this is taking place.
I think the vibrations are our etheric body trying to align itself with the astral body. Basicaly trying to phase the awarness into one of the astral realms. I've noticed how the vibrations vary in frequency depending on which realm I'm phasing into. This is an over simplification but pretty much sums it up, IMO.
Lately, I'm starting to feel them while wide awake but very relaxed.
Quote from: jub jub on December 04, 2006, 16:26:07
I think the vibrations are our etheric body trying to align itself with the astral body.
I agree. Align with or separate from. I doubt it can be measured as physical vibrations.
Quote from: Psan on December 03, 2006, 19:32:45
I recommended neural activity measurements...
It doesn't really correlate with vibrations, but an unusual EEG was recorded when they did the infamous "Miss Z" experiment, where she correctly read a 5-digit number during an OBE, but they later found the number could have been read if she had a flashlight.
http://www.soultravel.nu/2004/040326-MissZ/index.shtml
"a non-dreaming, non-awake brain wave stage.. and no activation of the autonomic nervous system"
Vibrations are involuntary? So that makes me think they're not a "physical" experience. The study was only on ONE person though.
Quote from: the voice of silence on December 01, 2006, 12:55:50
MisterJingo,
I thought that you experienced the vibrations during the obe?
My first 5-10 obe's, I didn't have any vibrations until I went over my friends house.
He had vibrations all the time, tell me about them, and how what a shock they
when first experienced.
Now, the vibes are lite, relaxing and plesant but the early days I was holding onto my
hernia belt...:)
Tvos
99% of my OBEs have varying degrees of vibrations, but I haven't found anything but belief to link them with energetic interactions between subtle bodies. People will disagree with this I'm sure, as their experience might of reinforced the belief of these energetic interactions until such subtle bodies are a part of their reality of OBE.
If we look at every single OBE technique, the one thing they have in common is taking focus away from the physical. This might be through the use of active visualisation (tactile or visual), or bordering sleep and getting immersed in hypnogogics, or even staring at the blackness until such dissociation occurs. At this point the 3d blackness is felt (altered state of consciousness interpreted as a 3d blackness), and then either separation and/or vibrations - which seems to be due to this dissociation (might possibly have roots in DMT release and sensory deprivation making the effects much more pronounced).
For OBEs, sleep paralysis (or the mechanism behind it) is triggered, and I guess we experience our body in this new creative environment (RTZ) due to expectation rather than base reality dictating consciousness needs an energy body to be separated. The fact we have bodies even in mindless dreams suggest this body creation reflex is pretty ingrained in our mind (we do experience sensation from body at every waking second reinforcing its shape and action). Proficient OBErs generally find they have no body as they become more experienced or can create any body at will.
For AP, the body is created for the same reason.
The above doesn't go into detail, but at least covers a few things I have found, and partly explains why I left beyond the whole subtle body /energy interaction belief.
The core is simply diverting sufficient attention away from the physical to invoke whatever default mechanism are contained within the brain to kick start the OBE/AP generation processes.
I've seen many people basing everything on this energy body model, and practicing making this model part of their core belief and consequent world view to little or no benefit to their OBE practices. This is because they are diverting their energy in the wrong direction. Energy bodies are a tool to divert attention, not a goal in and of themselves.
I did a search of health forums a while ago to see if anyone had experienced vibrations as part of a known medical condition. What I found were several reports looking quite similar to exit sensations, while having no known medical cause. The Google link quotes a bunch of posts from around the web.
Google Answers: Bad wakeups (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=517560)
QuoteI get the same thing.. vibrations feel so strong I think I'm going to lift off and fly around the moon. I also get this feeling in my back mostly, sometimes my chest, like a current is running through me... anyone who's ever been on a TENS machine, which puts a current through to relax muscles will understand that it is that exact feeling I get.
Sometimes I can burn it off, if relaxation doesn't help, just get up and start doing housework and moving around... burns off a bit of the anxiety adrenalin.
healingwell.com (http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=9&m=326794)
QuoteI've been having "internal" tremor-like feelings for over 1 and 1/2 years. I describe it as a resonating or vibrating feeling. It happens everytime I'm going into sleep and many times during awakening. Without some type of sleep aid, it can awaken me during the night. It has dramaticallly affected the quality of my sleep. It doesn't matter whether I'm in bed or taking a nap in a recliner. I'm 56 years old, 6 ft and about 190 lbs. I'm physically active, but retired. I take medication for excessive reflux(prilosec) and irritable bowel syndrome(levsinex). I've had a sleep apnea study and seen a neuro-phychologist. The phyc found me normal, without any notable anxiety, and I experienced only 8 short episodes of apnea, only on my back, during the sleep study. I've tried stopping my various medications, increasing exercise, etc. with no luck. My doctor prescribed Xanax, which helps me sleep longer, but just knocks me out so much I don't know I'm having problems, and I don't like the fact it is addictive. The length of these feelings used to be about 5-10 secs and are now much longer, sometimes over a minute. I also seem to have unusual dreams associated with this disorder which I never experienced before. I have difficulty recalling the details of the dreams when fully awake. The weird thing is that there is no external tremors, shaking, or vibrating like I'm feeling internally. The feeling is centered in my chest and upper body, nothing in my lower extremities. I continually check my pulse when awake enough and find no rapidness or irregularity with my heartbeat. A year ago I had a heart catheter and was told everything looks good. The only other symptoms I experience are sometimes my top forearm, thumb, and first two fingers go to sleep, depending on which side I sleep. Has anyone else ever experienced this and can offer some help? Doctors have yet to find a solution to the problem.
Sleepnet.com (http://www.sleepnet.com/rest10/messages/632.html)
QuoteEvery morning i wake up im getting a deep vibration (feels like a motor running inside my body) and at first i thought there was a small earth tremor happening ! It makes the bed shake slightly and my partner can feel it if she holds my arms when its happening. i feel that its centered somewhere in my head. but dissapears after about 30 seconds of waking up !!!! Sometimes it wakes me up and it feels like im having some kind of siezure all over my body and head, even though i dont loose conciousness. On some occasions (like the last few days i cant get to sleep. just as im about to drop of i get a strange feeling in my body, my heart beat goes up and i feel rough !!! this can happen 20-30 times in a night. i can sometimes only manage to get sleep if i take a zopiclone sleeping pill. about 6 weeks ago i went 5 days and 5 nights with no sleep because something in my brain wouldnt let me drop off ! im getting real worried now. Thanks for your help in advance.
BrainTalk (http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:MoJ-SaN_3asJ:brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php%3Fp%3D9634+%22my+heart+beat+goes+up+and+i+feel+rough%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a)
About vibrations... what I think:
Everything in the Universe is vibrating. Everything has its own frequency. I could saw it, clearly, in the first section of a "documentary", called cymatics, I got it from the torrent net (in "mininova", I think).
Physical Body has one vibrational rate, and astral body has other one.
While they are disconnecting, you can feel, in your physical body, the vibrations (higher pitched ones) of the astral body.
What I think... about vibrations.
See you !!!!
In terms of vibrations I'd agree.
Everything does resonate at it's own frequency. In fact the phenomena of one object appearing in two places is explained by the same frequency. Meaning that, say for example, the same cup is at two ends of a table. Hard to comprehend if you look at it in solid terms but in terms of frequencies it's easier to understand how it can simply manifest itself in two different places, simultaneously.
I'll steer clear of explaining the feeling of vibrations as it may cause some confusion. To me, they are more of an energy body sensation than anything physical.
-AM
I don't use the vibration technique. I've found them to be a distraction, but I am familiar with the sensation.
My thinking is that the vibrations are coming from blood pulsing through relaxed blood vessels. All of our blood vessels are surrounded by smooth muscle to help control blood pressure and body temperature. When we go through the process of relaxing our bodies for sleep we relax the smooth muscles around the blood vessels making them suddenly really lax and malleable. The pulsing blood causes a ripple effect kind of like punching down on a water bed creating the vibration. The variance in the vibration's location and frequency is do to the location of the blood vessels that are relaxing and their diameter/length like the strings of a guitar or piano.
Quote from: ElijahW on December 12, 2006, 19:43:17
I don't use the vibration technique. I've found them to be a distraction, but I am familiar with the sensation.
My thinking is that the vibrations are coming from blood pulsing through relaxed blood vessels. All of our blood vessels are surrounded by smooth muscle to help control blood pressure and body temperature. When we go through the process of relaxing our bodies for sleep we relax the smooth muscles around the blood vessels making them suddenly really lax and malleable. The pulsing blood causes a ripple effect kind of like punching down on a water bed creating the vibration. The variance in the vibration's location and frequency is do to the location of the blood vessels that are relaxing and their diameter/length like the strings of a guitar or piano.
The traditional chinese medicine say this:
QI, CHI, KI
Qi creates motion and heat. Only qi creates motion and heat.
Qi activates. It makes the muscles contract, the heart beat, and the blood flow. Qi regulates, by its flow, every gland and organ.
Qi flows mainly along the channels.
If qi is abundant and flowing, your body is healthy.
Qi moves the blood, and blood is mother to the qi.
THE BLOOD
Blood feeds and blood cleans. It carries nourishment to every cell. At the same time, toxic cell excrement is diluted and carried away by the blood. If the blood is weak, we starve. If its movement is insufficient, we wallow in our wastes.
The bood is parent to the qi. If the blood is weak, the qi is weak.
Qi and blood are inseperable.So the qi (energy) and blood are interconnected. Maybe this could help to explain vibrations further.
I'll attempt to keep this short.
As most of you have experienced, our consciousness, however you define it, is mobile. However, in order for it to express itself, and for it to experience any particular state of being, it must go through a series of energetic transformations. The more abrupt and different these transformations and energetic reactions are, the more we feel them. As an example think of what happens to transformations of energy in the form of heat in the air. These transformations can be subtle, or they can be very devastatingly powerful.
The vibrations are simply your consciousness transforming or tuning into another state. The more separated that state is from the current focus of your consciousness, the more abrupt or energetic those sensations will be. It is similar to what happens when you lay on your arm too long and it goes to sleep. The moment you get up, you start to suddenly regain sensation in your arm and you start feeling strong tingling. Once the consciousness has become refocused to that sensation the vibrations will stop.
Incedentally, if you are a regular practitioner of meditation, over time you will be able to transition more smoothly and vibrations will become less in intesity and duration. If you are able to expand your conscious focus over several spectrums of energy throughout the day constantly and consistently, the vibrations will dissappear all together when going obe.
I hope that provides some insight.
Very interesting,
ElijahW. So, it could be a kind of resonance. Veins get relaxed until they reach a natural frequency, which could be the heart reaches natural frequency. Then resonance or vibration appears.
I don't see clearly what you say, Chris...
I think our conscience changes of "vehicle", but without any transformation of energy.
And I'd say that the vibrations are further more intense when that change goes slowly.
But I'm not sure about this...
Bye.
In order for any two differing types and frequencies of energy to interact (in this case the physical body vehicle is one and the consciousness is another), there must be a coming together or a transition point at which information or energetic interactions from one source transform to the other to share information. You can think of these in general as the transformation points known as the major chakras in the body. However, in reality, the entire physical body has tiny connection/transformation points all over it. My explanation is an over-simplification as in reality we are not speaking of only 2 disparate energies coming together to communicate, but rather many differing spectrums and types of energy interacting very dynamically in a multitude of ways with one another.
I've spent a lot of time investigating this aspect of my energy body. It is quite complex. However, the fundamental principle is very simple. Your consciousness is a certain type/spectrum/frequency of coherent energy that can adapt parts of itself (shift parts of it's own frequency) to match that of another dimension or vehicle (human body) in order to interact with it. The human body is not the only thing it can do this with. Once it adapts or focusses a part of itself on this new energy frequency and attaches, it will then beging to gather information in the form of energetic reactions/transformations from the thing it is in contact with. In our consciousness we call these senses. Your "perception" of not only vibrations but other strong energetic reactions is simply the transition/transformation point between not being in contact (or being less in contact) and being more in contact with those other energies and thus are produced these sensations. The strength of these will depend on how fast/abrupt that interaction or shift of focus happens. In the case of an OBE, the shift is happening from the first physical vehicle to another spectrum which is the second body. The shift from the physical to the second body tends to be the most abrubt causing large energetic sensations... especially if it occurs quickly in the case of a conscious projection as opposed to the more subtle and more gradual sleep dream process. Shifting from the second to the 3rd body is not as energetic in terms of senses and from the 3rd to the fourth even less.
Just like someone learning to ride a bike, juggle, or drive a car... over time you become more "smooth" at doing these transformations and they become second nature.
Perhaps that explanation is yet still too simple. Consciousness itself is not a separate thing. Everything has consciousness (all energy) to some extent of organization or other. The amount of consciousness there is proportional to the complexity of organization, the pattern and frequency of that organization, as well as it's level of coherence. When you have an out of body experience, there is literally a dividing of consciousness where in different senses come to the forefront of one of those consciousnesses. When that consciousness re-integrates with the original consciousness it came from (the human body consciousness), the memory of that experience is shared. But make no mistake, that portion of your consciousness that leaves the physical body is a somewhat different person/consciousness when when it leaves it's state of coherence with the physical body. You might think of it in a musical sense. The piano is not a violin and a violin is not a piano, but coming together they can produce one coherent song or melody. Although both instruments have their own aspects the song they produce together can also be seen to have it's own aspect which is a sum of the two. This sum of the two is like our physical body and the higher bodies of energy which are in coherence with it. However, just like a violin or piano, they are very capable of carrying their own solo tunes.
Some people mistakenly believe that the "mind" must be awake and the body asleep in order to astral project. This is not true. If the physical body is asleep, relaxed, or dormant, this will indeed make projecting relatively easier, but it is quite possible to project while your physical body is active and in fact engaged in activities. This is because the consciousness of the physical body is able to continue without the focus of some of the energy usually associated with it (the spirit). However, when that spirit leaves on an adventure, the physical consciousness becomes somewhat diminished in consciousness and intelligence. The more physical processes and desires take over. This is also why we do more physically or spiritually oriented activities. The more you work toward keeping your "mind", "body", and "spirit" connected and working in coherent unity, the less likely you are to follow base physical desires. Rather, you will be more likely to act on the combined desires of the physical body and higher consciousness. Your perception and your awareness resides in a more expanded and widened state of knowing, and so your decisions tend to reflect that. You can call this your "higher self". Gathering more spiritual energies to yourself and expanding your consciousness will increase your awareness and have a positive influence on your life decisions.
Quote from: Chris on December 14, 2006, 21:01:06
Some people mistakenly believe that the "mind" must be awake and the body asleep in order to astral project. This is not true. If the physical body is asleep, relaxed, or dormant, this will indeed make projecting relatively easier, but it is quite possible to project while your physical body is active and in fact engaged in activities. This is because the consciousness of the physical body is able to continue without the focus of some of the energy usually associated with it (the spirit). However, when that spirit leaves on an adventure, the physical consciousness becomes somewhat diminished in consciousness and intelligence.
But how? How does a person train to do this? What sort of thoughts/steps need to be taken to accomplish this? All guides I've seen have always been "mind awake/body asleep" granted, probably because that's easier...still having trouble with it for sure.....just wondering if a guide/advice exists on doing it while physically active (I would want to do it while sitting down, not actually being active, etc..)
Thanks.
Ultimately, it's about learning to change your deeply ingrained belief systems and making your mind mobile. You might say, "but I do believe I can become mobile", but the truth of the matter is you probably don't believe 100%. Belief does not just come the moment you decide you want to believe something. All true belief requires time to develop the correct "patterns" of thought. The first time you drove a car did you truly fully believe you could drive a car? You started out with some belief in your ability to do it, but you were still unsure. That unsureness caused tension and eratic movements in your control. Only until you truly become fully comfortable and able to relax and believe in your reflexes and abilities behind the wheel did you stop acting eratically (I hope :)). Our very energy patterns are made up of and affected by our beliefs. I think Jesus statement that faith the size of a seed could move mountains was literal and not figurative (especially if he actually carried out the miracles that are attributed to him). Along with belief (with practice) you will over your life (and perhaps many lives) develop over time a dexterity and agility of mind. At the point this becomes very natural and easy for you, you will be able to do it while body awake.
Now, most people do not want to hear this answer. why? because it requires dedicated effort over time. Learn to accept where you are now. Accept who you are now. Be happy. Be content... and know that only with step by step day by day practice, hard work, and dedication will you achieve your greatest accomplishments. Most people want the easy way, the shortcut, quick results. There is no master alive today who took a shortcut. There are no shortcuts. Fantasizing about shortcuts and not dedicating yourself to a disciplined approach will only retard or stunt your growth. Ok, I've said enough and will shut up.