Hello.... FATHER!

[Adrian]

Greetings DJ!

It sounds all in all to have been a fairly productive conversation with your Dad

The most important thing is that he wants you to find out your own truth regarding OBE's. It might not be his truth, because he might not want to believe it, or just can't comprehend it based on what he had been bought up to believe and knows.

But what matters is your truth. When you have reached the point where you have proved these things for yourself, you can make a decision as to whether to share your findings with your Dad. If he doesn't believe it or accept it - leave it right there with him, and carry on discovering.

Best regards,

Adrian.

[Frank]

A lot of my early obe experiences turned out to be hallucinations. Like the 5 years or so I spent in what I termed the "training zone" mentioned in another post. At first it can be tricky separating your own hallucinations from genuine interactions with other beings. The mind can often "play tricks" on you in the physical... but on the Astral, it's trick-city.

On the Astral it is SO darned easy to get carried away with an idea. Those ideas can so very easily creep into your physical life too. Like, there are areas on the Astral where, depending on your character in physical life, you can be surrounded by the most godly and angelic of beings. If you do this often enough, you can easily begin thinking you are some kind of "chosen one" etc. When in reality, the images you are seeing are nothing more than hallucinations created by your own sub-conscious yearning.

Problem is, one situation begets the other. Such that the more real and tangible the images become, the more you believe them... so the more real and tangible they become... so the more you believe them... and so on, ad nauseum. Get enough people either to see, or wish to see the same (or similar) images and, hey-presto, a new religion is formed.

So your Dad is correct in a sense.

The solution to getting beyond the initial hallucinatory stumbling blocks is, once you can get on the Astral, you need to keep an entirely open and mildly questioning frame of mind. Simply think of everything as "interesting", don't get bogged down, and keep things short.

Like last night with myself, for instance. I've been experimenting with creating forms or changing existing forms. I came across an area of rock strata and I thought, "Hmm there's no-one about so let's have a play at changing this area around." Oh, as an aside, I also believe it is important to create as little disturbance as you can. For example, when approaching people always excuse yourself and be polite. And don't try changing the shape of someone's dwelling, and so forth. Anyhow, for a while I was changing the shape, colour and texture of these rocks. Which was mighty amusing. Once I'd finished, I then returned to the physical, awoke, made some notes about the experience, and then went off somewhere else.

I firmly believe that is the best way to proceed. Robert Bruce, in his book, advises you keep your travels short and to the point. This is good advice. If you don't, what tends to happen is your Astral journeys become a mish-mash. In the sense that when you wake, it's hard to separate the circumstances where you were simply dreaming... from situations where you were on the Astral proper.

Best of luck,
Frank

[Adrian]

Greetings Frank!

Thanks once again for a most informative and wise post

quote:
A lot of my early obe experiences turned out to be hallucinations. Like the 5 years or so I spent in what I termed the "training zone" mentioned in another post. At first it can be tricky separating your own hallucinations from genuine interactions with other beings. The mind can often "play tricks" on you in the physical... but on the Astral, it's trick-city.

What "zone" was this "training zone". I mean, was it entirely in your mind, was it the "real time zone" or non of the above?

Perhaps more importantly - how did you, after five years (and that pereverance is a credit to you and an example to others), start to cease experiencing hallucinations, and start experiencing the Astral proper, and much more importantly - how did did you come to differentiate between the two?

Robert, in AD, compares visualisation abilities in the Astral vis a vis the physical, as like comparing the most advanced super-computer (Astral) with a toy calculator (physical). It is not difficult to see how thought forms can be created, and viewed as real - especially against a desire to see something specific, or meet with Angels, Deities etc.. And there is subjective versus objective imagery

The passive, interested, bystander approach seems excellent advice to me!

With best regards,

Adrian.

[manfred]

Djmidgetman,


I think your dad is the kewlest he allows you to broaden your perspectives...My respects to your dad as I know how hard it can be if they are against it...

Regards,

Manfred

Manfred
http://www.astraltravellers.com/

[DjMidgetMan]

He still doesnt believe in it though.... lol...

DjMidgetMan
  "Mind over Matter"

[Frank]

quote:
Greetings Frank!

Thanks once again for a most informative and wise post

quote:
A lot of my early obe experiences turned out to be hallucinations. Like the 5 years or so I spent in what I termed the "training zone" mentioned in another post. At first it can be tricky separating your own hallucinations from genuine interactions with other beings. The mind can often "play tricks" on you in the physical... but on the Astral, it's trick-city.

What "zone" was this "training zone". I mean, was it entirely in your mind, was it the "real time zone" or non of the above?

Perhaps more importantly - how did you, after five years (and that pereverance is a credit to you and an example to others), start to cease experiencing hallucinations, and start experiencing the Astral proper, and much more importantly - how did did you come to differentiate between the two?

Robert, in AD, compares visualisation abilities in the Astral vis a vis the physical, as like comparing the most advanced super-computer (Astral) with a toy calculator (physical). It is not difficult to see how thought forms can be created, and viewed as real - especially against a desire to see something specific, or meet with Angels, Deities etc.. And there is subjective versus objective imagery

The passive, interested, bystander approach seems excellent advice to me!

With best regards,

Adrian.

Just beyond the Lucid Dream state there is a region where all your surroundings and everything you experience are a direct product of your thoughts. Any whim, desire, fear, or whatever, is instantly and graphically presented all around you. As you think, so it will be: instantly and literally. Depending on your state of mind, this place can be sheer heaven or total hell (or anything between) and it's entirely your choice.

I have a theory that many people confuse this place with the Astral proper. If you enter this region thinking you are on the Astral plane... then whatever you sub-consciously imagine what an "Astral Plane" looks like will instantly become your reality. Believe me, it looks and feels absolutely real. Problem is, the more "real" you think it to be, the more "real" it becomes. And that is how you become trapped. Because the stronger your belief the more your surroundings will develop to enforce that belief, therefore, the more you believe it: and so on; and so on; and so on........

The kinds of experiences you can have in this region are truly infinite. So if you enter this region thinking you are on the brink of your lifetime's spiritual journey, then that is how you will perceive it. Sadly, I fear many people have spent many years thinking they were on a profound spiritual journey, when it was all just a product of their own sub-conscious imaginings.

For example, if you are a devout believer in some religion or other and you enter this region, your sub-conscious desire to be at one with whatever (or whoever) you call God will manifest itself in total glory. There will be bells, music and angels, galore. Everything you ever wished for, in fact.

Another big danger is, unlike travel on the Astral proper, your experiences in this region make a MUCH stronger memory imprint. So you come out of it remembering a lot more of the experience. As such, it doesn't take much to imagine how this might affect your physical life.

The way I got myself out of it was to "realise" it. Once you realise that everything around you is merely a manifestation of your own sub-conscious, then it all just fades into nothing.

I am a scientist and people think what makes a scientist is wearing a white coat and forever dabbling in some laboratory. Nope, I say what makes a scientist is the way he or she thinks. I think people are born with a talent for thinking along a certain kind of path. A person born with a talent for art, may eventually become an artist. Likewise, a person born with a talent for thinking in a certain way becomes a scientist. Okay, not all of them. But a significant percentage, let's say.

Writing down my experiences and being objective about it all, or at least as objective as I could be, caused me to realise that the experiences I was having were hallucinations eminating from my own sub-conscious. It sounds simple to realise when I'm writing this down, today. But at the time of the experiences it was very different.

I believe this region is most easily entered from the wake-induced dream stage. Well, that is how it was with me. And it is from this stage that most people have there initial obe's. So again, there is the big danger where you have an inexperienced person falling into what can be a very powerful trap.

At the same time, I was experimenting trying to enter the Astral Realms from an awake state by means of meditation, etc. What began to happen was, sometimes I would have an "experience" that felt different. The scenery, for example, seemed more fixed. If I turned one way then turned back again, nothing would have changed. Plus,  there were all kinds of other tiny aspects that just made me think differently.

When you are on the Astral, proper, you can think entirely independent of your surroundings. Though you can, with a little practice, manifest things with your thoughts; you are doing it knowingly and purposefully and in a highy controlled way. In the Training Zone you are totally wrapped up in your surroundings. They ARE you in fact. But because you are SO totally immersed it is very difficult to realise it. It's like being subject to a HUGE Catch-22.

Also, on the Astral, you can interact with others and gather knowledge. Admittedly, you can do this in the Training Zone too. But the interactions with other beings on the Astral are much more fluid, and much more natural. You can repeatedly walk in and out of buildings, for example, and the interior will be the same each time. Also, you can walk away from a place and turn around and it will be about the correct distance away... given your walking speed and the time taken. In the Training Zone, the scenery tends to envelop you and has the feeling that it's following you wherever you go. It's rather like as if you were suspended at the centre of a 20 foot diameter bubble.  

Ultimately, there is a distinctly different "feel" to the Astral. Well, the Astral I can currently access given my level of development.

While I say the Training Zone is more commonly entered from the Lucid Dream stage, I feel it is possible to enter the Training Zone from ANY stage of development; no matter what method you use to project; or however experienced you are. For example, I fear that some of Monroe's later work has been composed from Training Zone experiences.

The passive, interested, bystander approach is the best state of mind to have because it stops you from getting too carried away. Okay, I freely admit that even what I or anyone else would call "the Astral" may simply be one mega-group-hallucination. But I'm keeping an open mind on that one, therefore, have no thoughts one way or the other.

I think what did make a big impact is when I had my first real-time obe. Being out of your physical body and looking at the ceiling from about 1 foot away, then looking down at yourself asleep is one heck of an experience when it first happens. You think, "No, I just can't have!". And then when you do it again and again, all this Astral Plane stuff starts to feel very tangible. Events start falling into place, new knowledge comes trickling through, and concepts you would struggle to grasp from merely reading them in a book... suddenly become easy to comprehend.  

Yours,
Frank

[DjMidgetMan]

Last night I had a chat with my dad... Basically about OBE's and I got some pretty surprising comments..... I asked my dad if he knew that OOBE's could be practiced.... He said: "Yes, Hallucinations can be practiced...".... At first I was like "Huh", but then he said: "Yes, you can practice hallucinations" and I understood his comment...lol... And then directly after that, I asked him with a grin: "Did you know that thats what half of this book is about??" .... And he said he kind of figured that... But then, what really put join in me, was when he said: "Son, I want you to experience these things for yourself... I want you to find the truth about this on your own....".... And then after that, he went on blabbing about "knowing yourself" and how important it is and how the hardest person to get to know, is yourself..... I think we had a good conversation...

DjMidgetMan
  "Mind over Matter"