Second Attempt at my question!

[Eol007]

Hi Andrew,

If you click on your name (to the left) you will be able to find a list of your recent posts.

e.g. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14260

Regarding Brain Wave stuff... I'll leave it to those more experienced than myself...

Cheers,


Stephen

[Frank]

Reports on these kinds of products tend to be highly subjective, and much depends on the sensitivity of the person in question. A lot of the advertising I have seen borders on the riduculous. I've never managed to work out how someone can "guarantee" astral projection. They get away with it, I suppose, because of the legal grey-area that exists with these kinds of products.

There is no specific definition of astral projection, and no test any official can apply that would objectively determine whether or not use of tape-xyz did (or did not) produce the results as advertised. So it all becomes a case of buyer-beware.

I had great results from the Monroe Gateway Wave-1 CD. Yet there are others who've had no results at all, and others with all manner of varying results in between. So the only real way of finding out IMO is to try whatever it is and see how you go.

Problem is also when people have reported results with these kinds of tapes they usually describe what I would call a whacky experience, as opposed to a controlled conscious-exit obe. Which leads me to conclude that what these tapes may in fact do is just screw around with the brain; and in doing affect the energetic link between mind and brain thus bringing on said whacky experience; which a person then confuses with a proper obe. After all, a person who has never done it before wouldn't know there is a rather distinct difference.

It's a bit of a minefield and before laying out hard cash I'd definitely try and get some feedback about a specific product beforehand.

HTH

Yours,
Frank

 

[mazdaaf]

ive tried out a few of them, some had no effect whatsoever while others seemed to make a difference. It all depends on the person :-/

[Andrew Garley]

Thanks for that!

I did obtain a copy and free files and used them for two weeks twice a day, to be honest with you i started getting headaches and like you said just some weird stuff that wasnt Full AP.

My concirn was messing with the brains paterns.

Still had a good solid AP last night with no betagen lol

[Huwie]

Binaural beats were part of what empowered Robert Monroe originally.  I've used BWG successfully to calm myself, make myself more alert, and to treat headaches.  There's definitely something in it, then.

I've never been able to project using them though, nor would I want to rely on binaural beat technology anyway.  There are some who believe, however, that using the technology can train your brain, so if you were continually successful using binaural beats to project you will eventually find yourself being able to do it at will without the need for listening to anything.

I'm rather skeptical myself.  Although Monroe used them to "get out", he was a rather special case, as anyone who's read all three of his books will know.  If anyone can use them to achieve results, fair play to them.  I wouldn't put much faith in them though.

[Dream Cadet]

Andrew,

I have had one OBE after listening to a BWGEN preset called deepmind VI.  I have listened to it about 20 times.  Even if I don't have an OBE, I feel a difference.  I have a fan in my bedroom. When I go to bed after listening to the preset, my sense of hearing fades right before I doze off. It sounds like the fan is fading in the distance.  The only problem is, when I notice it, I snap out and the noise of the fan comes back.  I can attest to the fact that presets do affect some people at least to some degree.  

I would suggest caution when choosing presets.  Just about anyone can create one.  It might save you some headaches in the long run.

Happy Travels,

D.C.

[astralspinner]

quote:Problem is also when people have reported results with these kinds of tapes they usually describe what I would call a whacky experience, as opposed to a controlled conscious-exit obe.

I tend to think that it's because these people use the tapes because they don't have the necessary skill & focus to get into a trance on their own, so when the tapes get them Out, they don't have the focus needed to control what happens - they've bypassed an important foundation skill.

Same goes for some of the "how to project every morning" methods that get posted up here - ok, your alarm clock might be able to get you Out, but if you don't have the skill to consciously exit, then how can you have the skill to navigate once you're Out? Talk about running when you can't walk...

On the other hand, BWGen's headache preset is damn good at curing my work-caused headaches

[Mustardseed]

Dear Frank

I always read your posts with interest, and this one as well, and appreciate your insight and help a lot. I have a few questions along the line of the topic at hand, that I have been thinking about for a while, and would appreciate your observations and input if any.

Since getting back into the Astral experiences, (dormant since teen years)I have made a effort to grow. I am still not very experienced in "proper" exits but my own experiences seem to be very "whacky" or different in nature. If there is such a thing as a concious exit "by the book", (and I almost question this these days[]), I have only had 11 . I have had numerous WILDs and Lucid dreams as well as scores of experiences with Astral sight. Altogether some 120 what I would call OBE experiences over the last 14 months.

My question is this. If one assumes that various tapes drugs and artificial aids, "screw up the brain" as you put it, would one be right to assume that laziness, lack of proper discipline and fear does the same?. Or put differently is there in your opinion a linear experience, a step 1 step 2 step 3 etc that one can "screw up" or do you think that we progress as we are "meant to"?

It seems clear to me that basically I get back in experiences what I put out in time and effort, but what about natural gifts as or even divine intervention perhaps, how does that factor in to the equation. ?

Sometimes I wonder if I am messing up my "path" by not reflecting enough and taking enough time to practice meditate and pray, but life is not static, and the body needs food etc. One also have responsibilities and often many people depend on us,to reach their potential and get a meaningful life as well. There is a very nice movie I saw long time ago called "Mr. Hollands opus" . The story is about a music teacher who gives his entire life to teaching kids, all the while never getting to finish what he considers to be his own life accomplishment. A interesting story with far reaching implications. In the end he finds out he himself recieved as he gave out to others.

I see that you are retired. Any words of wisdom experience to share on these matters. This goes for everyone else as well ofcause.

Regards Mustardseed

[clandestino]

quote:These Betagen brainwave programs, are they any good?
Do they work?

Some called Guaranteed Astral Projection.

I have had lots of practice with "Gateway wave 1" . I purchased the CDs after reading that several members on the astralpulse had managed successful concious exits whilst using them. This was a good 2 years ago now, maybe even further back. I remember Frank outlined in great detail how he went about using the wave 1 CD, this detail was much appreciated by me ! ...The guidelines that came with the actual CD were sparse.

I haven't used these CDs in a while, though I'm about to embark on a more concerted effort in the near future. I must have listened to Monroe's monologue 2 or 300 times over a 9 to 12 month period, at varying times of the day and night. I noticed that more than 80% of the time, I would either fall asleep, or give up because something was "not right" e.g. I would be disturbed during the exercise, or my mind kept wandering. Approx 15% of the time I would notice strange things happening...sensations of moving in space, hearing sounds, seeing vague patterns and hypnogogic imagery. This was fun in itself & kept me inspired to continue using the CD.

Maybe 2% of the time, I would have an "OBE"...always ending up in an astral plane, never in the RTZ (real time zone). Usually, I would lose conciousness then regain it, somewhere in the astral. On only 2 occasions did I manage to conciously phase into the astral. Both were brief, but fantastically exciting; I had projected involuntarily several times before during my lifetime,  but now I had confirmed to myself that "OBE" was possible through my own intent.

A couple of points :
1) generally speaking, you can't just turn on the CD, stick the headphones on and wait for a projection. The sounds are, if you like, helping you to create an environment that is conducive to OBE. They may actually be adjusting frequencies within your mind / brain that will help you project, but this is debatable. At the end of the day, CD or no CD, YOU are the one who has to exercise his mind in order to project.

2) the gateway CD was extremely expensive; I think I paid $100 for a 3cd set ! (those were the days, when I had money to burn !) However, I hear rumours that these kind of things can be procured for "free" via certain file-sharing sites. Not that I'm advocating that, of course...

Andrew, I'd give them a go. Its one of many techniques that is known to work. Remember though that different techniques seem to work for different people, so I wouldn't use it exclusively.

Kind regards,
Mark

[astralspinner]

quote:If one assumes that various tapes drugs and artificial aids, "screw up the brain" as you put it, would one be right to assume that laziness, lack of proper discipline and fear does the same?. Or put differently is there in your opinion a linear experience, a step 1 step 2 step 3 etc that one can "screw up" or do you think that we progress as we are "meant to"?

My 2c: When out of the body, you're in an environment that is extremely sensitive to thoughts. Every stray thought you have can manifest instantly. Like attracts like, so the slightest change in your mental state can move you to a different area of the astral.

So to have a 'coherent' astral experience, you need to be able to keep your mind clear of stray thoughts, and keep yourself mentally stable. Putting in the effort to get good enough at meditation that you can keep your mind focussed, clear, and alert for extended periods pays off when you project, as your clear mind will create less 'static'.

If you instead bypass this step using tapes or other methods, you might get OOB, but you don't have the clarity of mind, so you skip around randomly and create things accidentally the whole time. As a result, you get a very chaotic experience.

That's my understanding, anyway.

[Krevency]

I've been doing energy body development as described in Astral Dynamics, because I want to be up to snuff when I get out.  These cds and stuff (and even the Monroe Institute) seem kind of like cheat codes.  And that's only if they work for you.  If they don't, then it's a lot of money down the drain.
I used to play EQ.  People would power-level lower lvl characters, and by the time the lower-lvl character had gained some levels, all of their skills were still really low.  Basically a useless practice.  
The last thing I want is, when I get out, to have it be a less cool experience because I didn't properly prepare.

[Dream Cadet]

Hi Krevency,

quote:These cds and stuff (and even the Monroe Institute) seem kind of like cheat codes. And that's only if they work for you. If they don't, then it's a lot of money down the drain.

I see the tapes as more of a tool than a cheat code.  Carpenters built houses for years without power tools.  The discovery of these tools made building houses easier.  However, a carpenter can't build a house with power tools alone. They still need the old foundation tools such as a tape measure, framing square and claw hammer.

I have had 10 OBEs. only one of them was with the aid of a tape but it was as strong and clear as any of the others.  I believe you are doing the right thing by preparing but I wouldn't completely discount the use of an aid such as a tape if you hit a snag along the way such as I did.


Happy Travels,

D.C.

[Frank]

Mustardseed, thank you for your kind comments. What you said was very interesting and my reply is as follows:

The artificial aids may screw with the brain and affect the energetic link between mind and brain; then again they may not. What I'm putting forward is an informed opinion as opposed to concrete proof. But I do feel rather strongly that they do. Likewise I would agree that laziness, lack of proper discipline and fear also has a strong detrimental affect. To the extent where, yes, the brain can get screwed from that also.

Your spiritual journey will consist of many, many steps, and it is possible to screw-up at any stage. This I would say is normal. I screw up all the time. But the thing is, with people like me who have been at this a while, we've got a kind of momentum going which tends to carry us through. Unfortunately, with people at the beginning stages, when they screw-up they tend to keep getting knocked back to square one every time. This can be very demoralising to say the least.

Your point about us progressing as we are "meant to" I find most interesting. People tend to use the past as an indicator of future progress. And the way we are meant to do it is to have many, many lives learning what really are the most simple of lessons. For example, with myself, "greed" took me about 10 lives to get out of my system. Now I learnt this lesson fairly quickly, when measured against conventional yardsticks, because there are people who've spent a hundred lives and still can't get the point.

Anyhow, regardless of the nitty-gritty of it all, don't you think spending a hundred lives, or even ten lives for that matter, don't you think that's such a complete waste of time? Especially given that it is now possible to circumvent the bounds of this thinking and realise in perhaps a few years (or even months on occasion) what would normally have taken many lifetimes?

Quantum leaps in growth can occur with almost any individual. When this happens, the person in question automatically bypasses the need for many future incarnations and immediately takes a huge step forward. Problem is, people would quickly have to take on board certain concepts and live to particular ideals, and most people in western society are just too far gone to make such an immediate switch.

So I would say, on balance, people proceed not so much as they were meant to... but proceed as they mistakenly feel they are only capable of.

I know, wondering whether you are doing it right is just so darned natural. The key is to see everything from everything's point of view. This will give you the understanding necessary to make great changes in your life.

Yours,
Frank

[Rastus]

If you don't have the fundamental background and skillset, the BWGEN isn't going to give it to you.  I think for the unprepared person, they are going to AP into something indistinguishable from a dream.  For the prepared person, it's like the powertools analogy, it saves you time.

My experiences have been very positive, but I stopped using them.  Mostly because getting an hour in a comfortable chair, undisturbed, in silence, is impossible []  Instead I've concentrated on other aspects of my work, and my AP's have blossemed.  The Nirvanna of the concious RTZ OBE seems to be an arbitrary goal?

[Mustardseed]

Dear Frank
I believe that I understand your point and I would agree that the sacrifice and the hard work is certainly worth it, and that it is our responsibility to try as much as lies within us to "grow". I am not so sure regarding your referral to re incarnation, as I believe it is highly unlikely that Re incarnation, as most people seem to believe in it, is an absolute truth. Anyway, maybe that doesn't really matter. At the rate the world is going the way of quiet reflection, and simple life has been messed up, and become marginalised. Maybe along with everything else and all the other polution our ability to absorb spiritual truth has also become tainted and inhibited.

To reiterate, is there a right and a wrong OBE experience, is there a step 1 step 2 etc or is it an individual thing. Are there common denominators of right or wrong things to do. I believe as it seems you do that there are?. Fear but also pride and selfrighteousness and judgemental attitudes seem to be in every way as detrimental as drugs etc. Among Christians, a attitude of non action and believing that they are "gods chosen" and that no effort is needed is another detriment to making positive steps to change and grow, and an extreme new age attitude of being too cock sure of being enlightened and on the "right path", might be just as bad and another thing to overcome.

About balance, I heard someone say "everything with moderation,....even moderation"

Regards and thankyou again for your time, you were much missed for a while and we are glad you are back.

Regards Mustardseed

[Andrew Garley]

Well i tryed disc 1 of monroe's gateway stuff with the best results so far, so thanks for that everyone!

Only problem i do find is when he starts to talk it make me jump a little.

I have found that listning to something focuses me, so its a good thing.

Well let you know how i get on! []

[gnomad]

Hi Andrew,
there are a couple of free mp3s available from this forum, similar to the Hemi-Sync tracks, which you might be interested to try:

Here's a link to one that I produced recently.
And another one created by alt0xFF.

If you do get the chance to try it, any feedback (positive or otherwise) greatly appreciated!

Cheers, Dave

[Andrew Garley]

My original question has now dissapeared [xx(]

Suppose its my fault for ramblin on lol

Ok lets try again[^]

These Betagen brainwave programs, are they any good?
Do they work?

Some called Guaranteed Astral Projection.

I would value some feed back please if they do help or not?

Many thanks
Andrew