Hasn't ANYBODY ever asked this question to themselves b4!??
Perhaps when you stop questioning, and rely a little more on faith.. the distinction between real entities and that of your own creation will become a bit more clear.
just a thought..
amed
Sorry, but I thought your questions were more of a rhetorical nature. My questions are, how can you tell people you speak to within the Physical are not just figments of your subconscious? Or when you speak with a neighbour or a friend, for example, how do you know you are not just imagining it?
Yours,
Frank
My understanding of the situation is that dream people are products of the subconscious mind. Entities encountereed while out of body have a real objective (tThough non-physical) existence.
This may not be true for everyone. Some people believe that very talented astral projectors can create things on the astral plane including the thought-astral doubles of physical people. If this is true then some astral entites would be nothing more than thought forms.
So, as you can see, the issue is not obvious or clear cut. When dealing with dreams and OBEs your own experiences are often the best way of providing answers.
Row row row your boat, gently down the stream. Merrily merrily merrily , life is but a dream...
Hi,
One time I projected and left my bedroom and there were tons of people mingling around like we there was a party going on. I couldn't recognize anyone and they seemed like normal paople. I started to realize that I didn't recognize my surroundings anymore and that I was projecting everything, even the people, so I told them that I was getting too confused and needed to go back to my body. They all said OK like I was just leaving a party or something. And then I learned or heard rather that often times people are a projection of subconscious egos. In which case I apparently have alot.
quote:
Originally posted by Frank
Sorry, but I thought your questions were more of a rhetorical nature. My questions are, how can you tell people you speak to within the Physical are not just figments of your subconscious? Or when you speak with a neighbour or a friend, for example, how do you know you are not just imagining it?
Yours,
Frank
You are trying to make the argument more complicated than is necessary. Since I can clearly differentiate when I am in the physical plane or not, having 23 years of experience, it is obvious that other people in the physical lead their own lives and are not a figment of my subconscious!! If I were imagining things, nothing would be consistent or logical!
But since I am not familiar with the astral plane or the lucid dream environment, I consider my question a valid one which can be answered in a logical way.
Aerotus: My intention was not to make the argument more complex than necessary. I'm sorry for giving you that impression.
You say you can clearly differentiate between yourself and other humans while on the Physical after having has 23 years experience: this is all I was attempting to exemplify. Same principle applies within the Astral.
In other words, I could take your response... Since I can clearly differentiate when I am in the physical plane or not, having 23 years of experience, it is obvious that other people in the physical lead their own lives and are not a figment of my subconscious!!
...and convert it [thus]:
Since I can clearly differentiate when I am in the [Astral] plane or not, having [22] years of experience, it is obvious that other people in the [Astral] lead their own lives and are not a figment of my subconscious!!
In other words, what it boils down to is a lot of personal trial and error which ultimately gives a person the experience to tell which is which. So maybe that is what I should have said at the outset.
Again, my apologies for any confusion.
Yours,
Frank
Greetings Aerotus,
I believe your question is a reasonable one, and one to which Frank and others have made very relevant comments.
I would just like to add that the question of whether the people you speak of are "real" or not is largely dependant on your state (level) of consciousness at the time.
Dreaming, including Lucid Dreaming for example is often a journey of the personal psyche, in which case anything encountered will be a product of the personal psyche including beings of any sort. In this case the encounters are likely to reflect subsconscious issues that you might not be aware of in the normal waking state. This is why psychologists make use of hypnosis for the diagnosis of deeply psychological problems.
It isn't until projecting into the Astral proper - which in Monroe terms is (I think) F23 onwards, that the people you meet are likely to be real if you maintain the right state of mind. Of course, these levels of the Astral are still subject to the same laws, and accordingly you can still create images of people as well as objects.
It is certainly possible to create images of people who appear to be real. People in the physical world do this all the time unknowingly when, for example, they mourn someone recently passed on. The very action of many people concentrating and imagining the departed person actually creates images of the departed person in the lower Astral, and which are effectively "elementaries" or in this case "phantoms", and which do have a certain degree of intelligence. The problem is that many such identical phantoms can be created, and mediums frequently make contact with these phantoms believing them to be the departed person.
At the final analysis, as has been pointed out already, only projecting beyond F23 and maintaining a dispassionate, neutral, passive state of mind will allow you to experience situations where you will be able to determine whether "people" you encounter are real.
With best regards,
Adrian.
How can you tell if the entities you speak to during lucid dreams or astral projection are not figments of your subconsciousness? I have had some interesting conversations with entities, their responses are sometimes imaginative, witty or logical. Is this really me talking to my subconsiousness without even realising? Or were they really separate entities?
I am thinking next time to ask them how they can prove to me that they are not a figment of my imagination. It will be interesting to see their response! Has anybody done this before or have the same doubts?
Either way it is still fascinating to think that either I am conversing with seperate entities OR with my most inner self.