Focusing on an object during LD to enter astral...

[Gbob]

So I had an ultra long lucid dream this morning. At the beginning of realizing that I was dreaming I tried staring at an object as I've heard that by doing this the dream scenery will eventually fade away. Well I was in a supermarket and I started staring at this big price sign, at first it seemed normal but the longer I looked at it the more the numbers kept changing. Surprisingly it was quite hard to concentrate on the sign for a given amount of time, not to mention that I had the security guards chasing after me! Eventually I had to run away...

Am I not concentrating hard enough? I have done this quite a few times but the scenery never seems to change. Am I supposed to stare at an object for a very long time instead of just several seconds? For some reason I find it quite hard to focus.

Next time I might just try jumping off a roof or something simpler.

[CFTraveler]

I have never heard it explained like that.
Usually, when you enter the RTZ in projection, and want to go into the astral, you focus on any object that 'doesn't belong', and that can be a gateway to the astral.
Usually, when you are having a dream and you get lucidity, to keep the lucidity as long as possible it's said to focus on something and that'll keep you lucid and in the dream so you don't wake up.
I have never heard of this as a tech to OBE, except for using it as a platform- that is, the focusing of the object makes you 'stay' there, and then you take other measures to OBE (either flying very fast upwards or willing yourself to get back in body).  I don't know of any other way to do it using that technique.

I'm not saying it's not a valid tech, I just have never heard of it used in that way, with no discernible way to switch phases.

[Gbob]

I have never heard it explained like that.
Usually, when you enter the RTZ in projection, and want to go into the astral, you focus on any object that 'doesn't belong', and that can be a gateway to the astral.
Usually, when you are having a dream and you get lucidity, to keep the lucidity as long as possible it's said to focus on something and that'll keep you lucid and in the dream so you don't wake up.
I have never heard of this as a tech to OBE, except for using it as a platform- that is, the focusing of the object makes you 'stay' there, and then you take other measures to OBE (either flying very fast upwards or willing yourself to get back in body).  I don't know of any other way to do it using that technique.

I'm not saying it's not a valid tech, I just have never heard of it used in that way, with no discernible way to switch phases.

Well the technique I described doesn't work so you're probably right lol  

I think I read this technique from one of the old posts on here...

[catmeow]

Well OK in a lucid dream you re not in the RTZ... and I'm guessing you are trying to get to the RTZ. A method I've seen posted is as follows:

Firstly you have to be in a very familiar place (ie your house or bedroom). So to get "there" you may need to allow yourself to wake up slightly from the lucid dream so that you're back in bed (but not fully physically awake). Then it's usually a simple matter to do an exit procedure (maybe just swing your legs off the bed) and walk around in your bedroom. It's probably best to leave the bedroom but stay in your house.

Now maybe you find yourself in the living room. You must look around and note anything which is "wrong". The "wrong" things must be corrected so that they agree with the physical room. You might need to look around the room and gradually piece it back together. This requires an efort of memory and clarity of mind. Gradually, with a bit of luck the room will morph back into a good representation of the physical. The closer and closer you get the room to the physical, the clearer your consciousness gets, including your memory. Eventually you get to a state which is about as close to the real physical room as you can get. This now is the RTZ. You can wander off and explore.  Oliver Fox (a very early pioneer) heard a "click" the first time he transitioned from LD to RTZ and then found himself "locked" in the RTZ.  It's very hard to do.

Perhaps that is what you had in mind? I saw something along these lines posted here somewhere.

[Gbob]

Well OK in a lucid dream you re not in the RTZ... and I'm guessing you are trying to get to the RTZ. A method I've seen posted is as follows:

Firstly you have to be in a very familiar place (ie your house or bedroom). So to get "there" you may need to allow yourself to wake up slightly from the lucid dream so that you're back in bed (but not fully physically awake). Then it's usually a simple matter to do an exit procedure (maybe just swing your legs off the bed) and walk around in your bedroom. It's probably best to leave the bedroom but stay in your house.

Now maybe you find yourself in the living room. You must look around and note anything which is "wrong". The "wrong" things must be corrected so that they agree with the physical room. You might need to look around the room and gradually piece it back together. This requires an efort of memory and clarity of mind. Gradually, with a bit of luck the room will morph back into a good representation of the physical. The closer and closer you get the room to the physical, the clearer your consciousness gets, including your memory. Eventually you get to a state which is about as close to the real physical room as you can get. This now is the RTZ. You can wander off and explore.  Oliver Fox (a very early pioneer) heard a "click" the first time he transitioned from LD to RTZ and then found himself "locked" in the RTZ.  It's very hard to do.

Perhaps that is what you had in mind? I saw something along these lines posted here somewhere.

So this method is really hard to do did you mean? Normally I'm in my house in my lucid dreams but occassionally I'm somewhere random and I don't know how to get back. Also for some reason my memory is a bit weak in lucid dreams, I always mean to try out new methods but I forget and then end up fustrated that I'd forgotten when I wake up! Chances are I probably won't even remember exactly what my house looks like  

I'm also thinking of trying the 'jumping off a ledge' method. I did that once but ended up waking up. I didn't move and tried exiting but it didn't work. I want to jump off a ledge and enter the astral from an LD.

Once I did the 'falling backwards' method where you just fall backwards onto the ground. I think it actually worked as I got really weird vibrations and I 'woke up' and everything was lopsided! People say it was an etheric projection (is that the same as RTZ?) but I couldn't even pass through the door.  

[CFTraveler]

Yes, etheric is more or less the same as the Real Time Zone.

[catmeow]

So this method is really hard to do did you mean? Normally I'm in my house in my lucid dreams but occassionally I'm somewhere random and I don't know how to get back. Also for some reason my memory is a bit weak in lucid dreams, I always mean to try out new methods but I forget and then end up fustrated that I'd forgotten when I wake up! Chances are I probably won't even remember exactly what my house looks like 

It's very hard because as you say our memory of the physical is poor in LDs. The act of visualising your room as it really is involves using your physical memory, and is difficult.  You can also try to remember what you did the day before.  This is hard too, but it's a good exercise.  The more you remember the clearer your thinking becomes. Eventually you can get into a state in which your thinking is very clear, the room looks just like the physical and you think "wow so it's real!" 

But there is always a tendency to drift off back into a LD.  That's why I quoted Oliver Fox. In his experience something "clicked" in his mind and he was well and truly "stuck" in the RTZ (etheric).  I have reached the "wow so it's real" state but never managed the "click".  Sometimes it's better just to go with the flow of the LD and not bother with the RTZ. Most people on this board equate LD with Astral Projection (ie they are the same).  Whatever you think, LDs/APs are highly entertaining.  Going with the flow can lead to very interesting and memorable experiences, especially if you interact with others there (converse etc).

There is a thing called BST (Belief System Territories). These are areas where a group of minds have together built an environment (territory) based on their collective belief system. These are fascinating and weird, and are usually quite different from the physical.  You will recognise a BST by its sense of reality and general weirdness. Anyway I digressed.

[Gbob]

It's very hard because as you say our memory of the physical is poor in LDs. The act of visualising your room as it really is involves using your physical memory, and is difficult.  You can also try to remember what you did the day before.  This is hard too, but it's a good exercise.  The more you remember the clearer your thinking becomes. Eventually you can get into a state in which your thinking is very clear, the room looks just like the physical and you think "wow so it's real!" 

But there is always a tendency to drift off back into a LD.  That's why I quoted Oliver Fox. In his experience something "clicked" in his mind and he was well and truly "stuck" in the RTZ (etheric).  I have reached the "wow so it's real" state but never managed the "click".  Sometimes it's better just to go with the flow of the LD and not bother with the RTZ. Most people on this board equate LD with Astral Projection (ie they are the same).  Whatever you think, LDs/APs are highly entertaining.  Going with the flow can lead to very interesting and memorable experiences, especially if you interact with others there (converse etc).

There is a thing called BST (Belief System Territories). These are areas where a group of minds have together built an environment (territory) based on their collective belief system. These are fascinating and weird, and are usually quite different from the physical.  You will recognise a BST by its sense of reality and general weirdness. Anyway I digressed.

The main reason why I started lucid dreaming was so I could hopefully transition into an astral projection. But none of the methods I've used have seemed to work. What methods do you suggest I try out that are relatively easy to do?

[Timandra]

Hi Gbob. Perhaps some chapters of this book can help you. Start reading on page 103 : Transforming your lucid dreams into out of body experiences.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11791351/Lucid-Dreaming-Manual-M-Van-de-Keere

I hope this will help you, there are 3 methods to try out. Good luck!