Sleep Paralysis and Astral Projection

[WindGod]

one of the posts mentions "split mind"

If you talked to a doctor about this, would they say that it sounds like the symptoms of Schizophrenia and or dissociative identity disorder?

would you mean like a duplication/clone of a simultaneous consciousness, that differs by state of focus? Or is it like 2 personalities, Jekyll/Hyde?

This morning I got up a couple hours early, then went back to bed to "meditate/sleep/rest"

I experienced the "spongecake" state (hypnogogic) with reasonably lucid attention, consisting of a vivid sequence of 2d imagery, (like a quick slide show of pictures (with square frames lol. ) as well as 3d environments filled with objects of sciFi technology.

I was able to maintain the observer attitude, cancel spurious thoughts, and then started to "think" about what part of the hypnogogic state to focus on to continue.

A lucid dream followed and I started to feel/hear the familiar vibrations, then suddenly, I was shifting back and forth between the "dream self" and the lucid self. At some points "lucid/I" was observing the dream character, then I was the dream self, then shifting to the observer again.

As I have a clear recollection of this, I remember taking note of what to do , hopefully, to focus on the vibration state and to avoid lapsing back to the dream self the next time.

I'm surprised that I didn't feel frustration, but actually more of an "ah, ha" feeling of learning more of what seems to be a practical exercise.

The more I learn to compartmentalize the ego the more it seems to be learning how to control a dissociative identity disorder, with the intention of maintaining control from the "higher" self.

[kiwibonga]

one of the posts mentions "split mind"

If you talked to a doctor about this, would they say that it sounds like the symptoms of Schizophrenia and or dissociative identity disorder?

would you mean like a duplication/clone of a simultaneous consciousness, that differs by state of focus? Or is it like 2 personalities, Jekyll/Hyde?

Schizophrenia is a disorder where you alternate between two or more "personalities," but when your consciousness is split in two, you are aware of both parts at the same time, do have conscious control over them, and sometimes you are capable of communicating between the two, which is very different.

I think "clones" would be a more fitting description, but I don't know if they are really created on the spot. In my opinion they are always there, it's just a matter of becoming aware of them. Each "body" or "vehicle of consciousness" has its own limitations, but you will usually know that it is you.

[Stillwater]

Schizophrenia is a disorder where you alternate between two or more "personalities,"

I think that sounds a bit more like disassociative identity disorder- people often confuse DID with schizophrenia, and for a logical reason- DID is "multiple personality disorder", and schizophrenia is "split personality disorder"; the "split" of schizophrenia is more a splitting of the faculties, as the individual usually loses the ability to think, and sometimes speak coherently, at later stages. But I am just being a pedantic quibbler, lol- don't mind me.

I think "clones" would be a more fitting description, but I don't know if they are really created on the spot. In my opinion they are always there, it's just a matter of becoming aware of them.

This is an important point you bring up- if the "clones" are always there, and we cannot be aware of their relation to our own mind and body, and the mechanism by which our mind projects is much more difficult to pin down; one cannot say if it travels away, or goes deeper into itself, as each would be perceived similarly, and other symptoms might be the result of prejudices in one's own theory.

[Greytraveller]

Right. Some clear and coherent ideas in this thread. Also some very intriguing theories.
I'll try to put some of this together in a simple and straightfoward way. Some of it will be a repeat of what's already been posted. Please bear with me.

Start with sleep paralysis.
Fuse posted
                    I dont know if someone already said this but sleeping paralysis occurs to stop a person acting out a dream, or when they are in a deep sleep.

Sillwater replied
                     Yeah, I and others have mentioned it around six times, but thanks for pointing it out again, it is one of the key ideas to remember here.

Exactly right. Sleep paralysis prevents people from acting out their dreams. Example --- the man or woman who dreams they are flying will Not jump out of a second floor window.
So the person who is able to control their dreams, or can induce a lucid dream or happens to awaken with sleep paralysis can use that mind awake body asleep (and paralyzed) state to induce an out of body experience.
That seems a very clear and simple link between sleep paralysis and OBE, that is --- sleep paralysis can be used as a tool (for lack of a better word) to induce an OBE from a dream or near dream state of consciousness.

One point of disagreement. I do Not believe that all dreams are OBEs. Nor do I think that dreams = OBEs. Dreams, IMHO, are subjective in that all the imagery, action and senses are created by the dreamers' mind/brain and occur inside the dreamers mind/brain.
OBEs are objective in that the OBEer has effectively separated their consciousness (I use the term astral/ethereal body) from their physical body. They are outside their physical body while OOB (that is, after all, what the term "out of body" describes). What they perceive while OOB is objective reality. Yet the person may likely not accurately perceive everything while they are OOB. Perceptions are subjective in that perceptions are not always accurate and nobody can perceive everything everywhere all at once. So mistaken perceptions are part and parcel of the OOB experience. Unfortunate but unavoidable. Especially because most of us are all too used to relying on the 5 physical senses (used in the 3 dimensional world) and are mostly inexperienced at using the 4 dimensional (or 5 or 6 or whatever dimensional) senses that are needed for perception while out of body.

[kiwibonga]

So you believe that dreams are all in the brain?

[Stillwater]

I have astal energy now  :mrgreen:

Kiwibonga writes:

So you believe that dreams are all in the brain?

I am not in a position to speak for Greytraveller, but his remarks suggest that he believes in an objective reality to OBEs. In order to support a theory of OBEs that includes OBEs recording objective reality, one must put forth data that shows that information can be obtained through OBEs that was not otherwise availible to the projector; ie.: reading a card or number, etc. Most people, however, that hold that gathering this "extra-sensory data" is possible, do not hold that OBEs are a mere brain function, so it would seem to me that Greytraveller is advocating the opposite.


Greytraveller writes:

That seems a very clear and simple link between sleep paralysis and OBE, that is --- sleep paralysis can be used as a tool (for lack of a better word) to induce an OBE from a dream or near dream state of consciousness.

This is the thing that intrigues me most about sleep paralysis- arguements can be made in either direction: SP can be cited for both the brain-induced propponents, and the propponents of phasing, mind-shift, etc. (regardless of my personal position that OBEs are likely metaphysical events).

ANSWER A

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From a materialist perspective, the fact that OBEs occur during sleep paralysis, and that similar EEG waves to those of REM(Dream stage) sleep are recorded during OBE in a lab. setting, suggests that OBEs are the result of the mind's ability to create coherent internal mental scenarios as in dreams. In bio-physical psychology, dreams are used to explain the brain's attempt to interpret random neural discharges; scientists in this field would say that dreams are just that- random impulses, and most would also apply this same label to OBEs, as they are also accompanied by impulses, and oddly tend to occur during the time and state REM does.
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ANSWER B

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On the otherhand, the connection between sleep paralysis and OBE can be explained from the metaphysical perspective just as well. Since we are always aware of our bodies, it is difficult for us to focus on other level's of existence, as we are distracted and "grounded" by bodily stimuli. Sleep paralysis may be one of the few bodily states when we are free from these physical world-stimuli, and can pass our attention to other states of awareness. In this case, the similarities of OBEs to dreams, and the fact that they occur in similar conditions to dreams are merely coincidences, as sleep paralysis just happens to be linked to both dreams and OBEs.
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NOW THIS IS THE ISSUE OF CONTENTION: THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OBEs AND SLEEP PARALYSIS CAN BE DESCRIBED BY EITHER THEORY. THE TASK IS PRESENTING EVIDENCE TO SHOW WHICH APPEARS MORE LIKELY.

The number of choices (two, lol) is surely not exhaustive, as other theories can surely be given, but I think most people who discuss this issue have these two, or two similar choices in mind (and most, like me, have one they favor); this is why I find sleep paralysis to be such a crucial link in the puzzle- it is the splitting point of perhaps the two main views, where either one can be supported.

I advocate answer B, as I believe, like others, that information is obtained in OBE that cannot be explained by the mere excuse that we are dreaming, but this is open to debate.

What do others think of this?
Any objections/ qualifactions/suggestions/ arguements/counterarguements?