Lucid Dreams

[blade5x]

Every OBE I've had, I was hyper-aware. For some reason, it's like the exact opposite for me Lucid Dreams. I have below-average awareness. I'm missing a lot of good opportunities to lucid dream because I lose lucidity shortly after I gain it in a dream.

Any suggestions?

[sirius black]

hey, in lucid dreams you'r at least supposed to be more aware then in normal dreams but you can try to increase your awareness by screaming "increase awareness" in your dreams or something that implies that you want to become more aware

srry that i haven't posted for a while, i lost the address, i only just found it on lucid crossroads again so,,, i'm back

[catmeow]

Hi blade5x

Personally, I believe that LD's are different from OBE's.  In the former (LD's), your mental clarity is generally less than in PWC (physical waking consciousness) and in the latter (OBE's) it is heightened.  There are many OBE authors who distinguish between LD's and OBE's.  In scientifc studies of lucid dreamers, EEG was similar to normal REM sleep. whereas in studies of OBE'rs (Monroe, Ingo Swann) EEG was not distinguished from normal PWC. I think your LD experiences are normal.  You can increase clarity simply by taking more mental control over the experience, focussing, concentrating.

But may I ask, since you actually distinguish between LD and OBE, how do you make this distinction yourself?  What makes you classify one experience as an OBE and the other as a LD?

[blade5x]

Hi blade5x

Personally, I believe that LD's are different from OBE's.  In the former (LD's), your mental clarity is generally less than in PWC (physical waking consciousness) and in the latter (OBE's) it is heightened.  There are many OBE authors who distinguish between LD's and OBE's.  In scientifc studies of lucid dreamers, EEG was similar to normal REM sleep. whereas in studies of OBE'rs (Monroe, Ingo Swann) EEG was not distinguished from normal PWC. I think your LD experiences are normal.  You can increase clarity simply by taking more mental control over the experience, focussing, concentrating.

But may I ask, since you actually distinguish between LD and OBE, how do you make this distinction yourself?  What makes you classify one experience as an OBE and the other as a LD?

When I'm in Sleep-Paralysis I can start an OBE at will. I can't start a LD. (For some reason I can't start a dream scene when using WILD technique, but I can go OoB)

Also OBEs have a distinct feeling to me. Like I have a static-like almost very light buzzed feeling after taking a few shots of hard liquor (not exactly, but that's the best I could describe it). I also still have trouble moving in them. I can only float, kind of hover around.

[catmeow]

When I'm in Sleep-Paralysis I can start an OBE at will. I can't start a LD. (For some reason I can't start a dream scene when using WILD technique, but I can go OoB)

Thanks for the feedback!

By this I assume you mean that from SP you can simply "exit" ie roll-out, float-out, etc from your body and find yourself in your bedroom?  I can do this too, but the resulting "state" I find myself in is basically pretty much the same as a dream-initiated LD, except I'm standing in my bedroom.  When I leave my bedroom, fantasy elements come in very quickly.

Robert Peterson, in his latest book ("Lessons Out of the Body") categorises some differences between LD and OBE.  In his opinion, the first is largely an internal (hallucinatory) experience and the second is an external (real) experience.  Robert Peterson actually goes into great detail in his second book about how to calm your mind and emotions in order to go OBE.  I should try practising his precise techniques to see if I can improve the clarity of my own experiences, but it's a matter of dedication and finding the time.  I'm too lazy really.  But it should be worth the effort - I've always been impressed with Bob Peterson.

What do you think of the "sense of reality" in your OBE's as compared to the sense of reality in your LD's?

[blade5x]

Yeah, I just "roll-out" pretty much whenever I want during the SP.

By "sense of reality" I will have to get back to you on. My LDs are usually DILDs which to me end up being usually a low sense of reality. Usually I won't even stay lucid the entire dream. I'm sure if I perfected the WILD technique, the sense of reality would be much higher with me being fully concious entering the lucid state. My OBEs have had an extreme sense of reality. When they were happening, I was truly convinced. Out of the five I've had, the only one that threw me off was one were I rolled through my wall and ended up at some random location. (never been there in real life). It's just that distinct feeling I get when I have OBEs that I do not get in dreams.. that feeling along with hyper-awareness.

That being said, I am still a beginner when it comes to having OBEs, I can just induce them pretty easily. I don't really have good comparison yet. Until I can WILD well, then I will For some reason when I try to WILD, I'll reach SP, and then I'll just sit there for who knows how long until I give up. I'm actually thinking about "rolling-out" with the intent of ending up in a different location, but right now I've got this religious issue with OBEs.

[catmeow]

Hi blade5x,

You've pretty much confirmed what i thought and what several authors say, which is that LD's (WILD and DILD) are different from OBE's.  The biggest difference is the sense of reality, which at the time is undeniable, and remains completey convincing even when you return to PWC.  Also, the environment is much less subject to fantasy constructs (from your subconscious mind).  OK, you rolled through a wall and found yourself somewhere new, that's perfectly acceptable, you actually ended up in a new real concensus environment.  That's acceptable.

One other excellent differentiator is spherical (or 360 degree) vision.  OBE'rs occasionally report this, but LD'rs don't.

When I have time I might collect together a table of LD/OBE differences supplied by various authors and post them here.

I don't know what your religious issues are, but I wish you luck in dealing with them.  Personally I have no issues.  Most traditional faiths (Christianity, Islam etc) have a long history of power-madness. Also oppression, torture and general wickedness in the name of heresy.  So I don't buy into these faiths (Buddhism might be different).  But having a general spiritual outlook is something completely different, and I buy into that very strongly.  Good luck with this, but I hope you can resolve your religious issues, because in my opinion there is no problem with being both spiritual and practising OBE!  

Good luck!

[blade5x]

Thanks

I just need to find the answers to a few questions like

1. Why can I have OBEs so easily compared to many? [possible religious issue]
2. Where is my power to have OBEs coming from? [religious issue]
3. Why am I even practicing OBEs?

And etc. Hopefully I'll find my answers soon. Atleast from my experiences I've already answered some questions I had. I'm just not looking forward to those harsh vibes I might feel from not having one in a while

Oh just for a note, I didn't have 360 vision in my OBEs. Though if I wanted to see what was behind me I just saw it a split second later. My vision is still limited in OBEs. Only 2 so far have had crystal clear vision.