Need desperate help , I keep falling asleep :(

[Tom]

Four weeks is too short of a time to be frustrated. After four months, you can start to think about being frustrated, but it won't really be a helpful choice to make.

The most likely problem is that you are not getting enough sleep. If you are getting eight or more hours and it is not good sleep, then it is still not enough. That would be like eating nothing but potato chips and candy corn. If you are not getting at least seven hours of quality sleep, you should give it some thought. Also, it is supposed to be better for you to get to sleep by midnight. Eating heavy meals in the evening or using alcohol is not good. Try to get to sleep at the same time every night. You probably know all this stuff. What you are describing is sleep deprivation. I know it well.

[kakkarot]

i agree with tom. i know sleep deprivation all too well (i was in the military) and it sounds like sleep deprivation to me too.

one way to try to get around it is to begin meditating and go deep inside your mind. (it's like building a shield around your head and then shrinking your scope of perception so that you fall into your head and then across "dimensions" into the realm of your mind. interesting experience). while there take control of your mind and make yourself (ie forcefully program into your mind) be able to work with all the energy you have at your disposal while you are awake, and make yourself "force-rest" when you sleep (force-resting is what i call forcing your entire self to begin all the maintanence stuff it normally does when you sleep). double check to make sure the "programming" sticks in your mind.

then when you come out of the meditation, focus all your attention on what you are doing while you try to oobe.

~kakkarot

[Tisha]

First, get more sleep, as everyone is telling you.  You are lying down because you are tired! [|)] You KNOW lying down doesn't work for you but you won't sit up.  HM.  Maybe you DO want to sleep more than you want to OBE . . .

(been there, done that! I've learned to accept it and just sleep! [xx(])

How to project from a lucid dream?  It depends on where you want to go!  Real time zone or Astral?  

If I want the RTZ I work on bringing on the vibrations, and sinking into them.  Since I know what the vibrations feel like, I just bring them on from memory.  Then I will an OBE . . . feeling myself float out of my body, looking back at my body on the bed, feeling how REAL my astral body feels, etc.  I don't have a lot of control over these experiences, and they don't last long, probably because I'm so groggy when I do it!

If I want to go to the Astral I can actually make up all sorts of scenarios to accomplish a maneuver.  Staring at one thing long enough, asking it what/who it really is, can do the trick sometimes.   Some people walk through mirrors, but I think that's too freaky.

The trick is carrying your awareness with you while you "sleep."  Constant awareness during the day, and frequent affirmations really DO HELP.  Try to stay unbelievably aware of everything during the day, everything from the hairs in your boss' nose to the clouds in the sky, to the feel of the fork in your hands and the food in your mouth.  Pay very close attention to it all.  Make it a habit, and this habit will carry on into your sleeping states.

Have fun with it, let us know how it works for you [)]

[erico]

I have the same problem, i keep falling asleep. except i have been trying for about.....7 months now and i keep falling asleep. i have not been successful in a oobe yet [!] It is very frustrating. Can someone give me a realy good way to have an OOBE? if you could e-mail me a good way i would be very greatfull. my e-mail is erico2000@lacrosse.com

[Greytraveller]

For Erico and Zarklon, and other people who have trouble staying awake while trying to induce a projection, a possible alternate method is inducing an OBE through a Lucid Dream (LD). The dream state is a natural state of consciousness. During dreaming the body is asleep while the mind is only half-awake. Becoming conscious of a dream while dreaming is called becoming lucid. Then the body is still asleep while the mind is fully awake (=aware, conscious). When in this mind awake, body asleep state many different methods of inducing an Out of Body are quite likely to be successful.

[erico]

I'm not to good with Lucid Dreams either, I can't seem to realize to take control when im dreaming. I don't know what to do. I don't want to give up because i realy wanna fly the astral plains with all of you. I want to be able to see other worlds. But i need help.

[Zarklon]

Hmm.. I think you guys may be right about the sleep deprivation thing. I go to bed usually at 1:00AM on school nights and the other night I went to bed at 3:30.. How did you know it was sleep deprivation?

Was it the statement that I made about "dream images come within 10 second of me laying down?" heh... I was thinking that since my body was so ready to sleep , that I would be able to just keep my mind awake. I'm going to start trying to project from a sitting position but I dunno how I'm gonna do that without feeling awkward.

About that meditation you described "kakkarot" , I dont know how to really meditate.. I mean .. yea I can breathe , count breaths and all but as far as "getting inside my head and being one with myself" I dunno how to accomplish that.

I have really been thinking about starting to do the NEW energy ways again. I heard there are some ways to start up your chakras and it could lead to a more reliable OBE .. I dunno , I'll think about a technique and stick with it for 2 weeks before I switch.

4 weeks may not seem long to anyone here but , I'm a person that tried to project usually 2 times EACH day , I mean .. religiously lol. I'm so obsessed with it , its always on my mind.

I'm not very interested in Lucid Dreams to turn into OBEs cause I've done it once and I noticed that I just kinda got lucky.. I dream about astral projection in my dreams but I never realize that I'm actually IN a dream hehe.. I'll say .. ohh I cant wait to go astral tonight and then I wake up and go.. I SAID THAT IN A DREAM!! UGH!



This is what I'll do.. I'll go to bed at like 10:00 or 11 tops instead of 1 or 2 or 3 am.  This should help me to not fall asleep so fast when I try to project.

What are some suggestions that I try? Counting breaths , focusing on a mental picture to place myself in , staring at objects , falling asleep with my arm raised up , repeating mantras or just repeating something over and over while drifting to sleep . What are some things that you would recommend for someone that can easily notice when the dream images are sneaking up on him and can easily notice that his body is feeling numb and that its becoming more and more relaxed with every breath? I can notice all that but the dream images just knock me out.

Thanks guys , sorry it took me so long to get back , I took a ..nap today at 4pm and woke up at like almost 7pm.

[Zarklon]

another thign I forgot to mention.. If I got more sleep , would I still get to the point where I would just fall asleep a lot like I am now once I reach that relaxation state? Or would I begin to notice exit sensations such as vibrations becuase my mind is not "tired" from lack of sleep? How would I benefit from more sleep?


PS---I posted a similar post on another forum and they thought I was just practicing astral projection for 4 weeks and kept saying that I shouldnt be frustrated so fast hehe..

Just to clear this up , I've been practicing for over 7 months now .. hell maybe more than that , I keep losing track of time. I would argue over whether or not its 2002 2003 or 2004 ! I'm just lost in life hehe.

[Glacius]

solution:
Wake up 6am.
Go on internet.
read about AP at msg board for half hour.
attempt Astral Projection once mind totally awake. Night time not good for projection. Morning time much better.Thag!!!!!!!!!!!

[kifyre]

quote:Originally posted by Zarklon

Hmm.. I think you guys may be right about the sleep deprivation thing. I go to bed usually at 1:00AM on school nights and the other night I went to bed at 3:30.. How did you know it was sleep deprivation?

Most people are sleep deprived, and you keep falling asleep.

quote:

4 weeks may not seem long to anyone here but , I'm a person that tried to project usually 2 times EACH day , I mean .. religiously lol. I'm so obsessed with it , its always on my mind.

Just to put things in perspective, exercising for 20 hours straight won't give huge muscles, but a half hour, every few days, for a few months will. Sometimes you just have to do a little each day and wait.

Before you became, um, obsessed ([]), you never used your energy body or pushed your consciousness to the limit. It may take a while to get both "in shape".

quote:

This is what I'll do.. I'll go to bed at like 10:00 or 11 tops instead of 1 or 2 or 3 am.  This should help me to not fall asleep so fast when I try to project.

Most people are actually weighed down by many hours of sleep debt. (Your body keep accurate track, see The Promise of Sleep.) In extreme cases, people need as long as three weeks of an hour or two extra to work their sleep debt down to a minimum. This is just in case your above plan doesn't quite work, so you don't get discouraged. You've got the right idea and every bit helps!

All the best,

Mark

[kakkarot]

how'd we know you were sleep deprived? you're description of not being able to stay awake was the first and biggest indicator. if you need sleep, your body and mind will sleep, whether you want them to or not   .

kifyre wrote: "Just to put things in perspective, exercising for 20 hours straight won't give huge muscles, but a half hour, every few days, for a few months will. Sometimes you just have to do a little each day and wait." kinda yeah, but then there is the thing about technique. if you pump lots of weight, you get big muscles and big strength. if you do lots of reps, you get toned muscles and more speed and more flexibility out of your muscles (and other things).

so apply that to oobe training. try it lots of times with very little effort, and when you start being able to do them you'll have better control. if you try really really hard a few times (comparitively) you'll have strong oobe's, when they do happen, but you won't have as much control over them as you would with the previous technique.

Zarklon: as for meditation, all you have to do is just focus on your thoughts. it's like daydreaming except you aren't dreaming, you're "consciousness" is just focused inside your head rather than being focused on the world around you.

~kakkarot

[Zarklon]

So , practicing a little bit everynight going to bed earlier will be a good idea? I'll do that.

I'll get my sleep from now on also.



About meditation .. what exactly does it do for you.. I mean .. I can sit there an day dream about stuff non stop and put realize that I'm just kinda staring off into space .. most of the time , I dont wanna be caught like that but I snap out of it.. Is meditation the same way? Do you just sit there and let the thoughts come in and let them pass with little interaction or what?

Is it better to be sitting or lieing down? I dont know how meditating like that can help me. Whats the purpose?

[liefmichael]

Maybe a change of tactics is in order?  If your body keeps wanting to sleep maybe it is because you need sleep?  Why not look closer at lucid dream exit techniques (which is how i first learnt to OBE).  Simple reality checks to be precise was the only real technique I tried, did it for about a week and one night i went lucid, which was enough of an experience in itself and then I learnt to OBE from lucidity.  The reality check i used was the clock method, every time you look at the clock, look away and take another look.  It also causes you to subconciously check through the day to see if you are dreaming with other routine tasks.
Related info, study just released shows a link between heart disease and the amount of sleep we get, too little (6 hours or less) increases chance of heart probs and too much (9 or more) has the same effect. Interesting eh?
peace n love
lief michael

[terrance]

Hello Zarklon and company,
When I have success with getting out of body in means I'm also getting  a consistant 7 to 8.5 hours a sleep a day with no alcohol and reasonable eating.  For some strange reason I tent to wake up every morning at 2.15am (ish).  I get up, have a drink, chill for 15 mins or so, brush my teeth and then back to bed.  If I've meditated when I first went to bed and do it again second time round, I usually get something.  If I do sleep I'm also more likely to become aware during sleep... so maybe setting an alarm for the early hours might bring some good results.

The only sure way to get results (for me) is to go for an OBE seperate from any other activity.  So during the day or at night but before sleepy time.

regards

[kakkarot]

in meditation you get rid of your thoughts and just let your mind sit in emptiness. you will figure out where to go from there.

it helps improve concentration, focus, and willpower at the least. it strengthens your mind as well.

many other benefits that i am sure others can name.

~kakkarot

[liefmichael]

more benefits

* stress relief
* relaxation
* physical health benefits which result from both of the above
* unbiased decision making
* my favourite - physical, mental and spiritual silence!

peacenlove
lief michael

[weagle]

I think like most say that is to not meditate right before you go to sleep when I do that my body gets so aggrevated but if I do it say few hours before its ok the best like some say go to sleep 6 hours wake up stay awake for an hour then go back to sleep for the next few hours your body is already rested but mind will stay awake when you dream and go lucid in the dream.  If you look at it scientifically they say to achieve obe is to condition the mind to relax a lot but problem is if you fall into theta brainwaves too long (alertness is gone) you drift off to sleep they say you need a little alertness spike to the alpha range so your mind stays alert a little thats probably the formula for those who successfully obe consciously thats the next step.  Many advices on alertness given here like doing reality checks so you do them in the dream in case you fell asleep I don't know of any conscious techniques to keep you alert when you're drifting off to sleep except what robert said is to have your arm up on the bed when its falling down then thats an alert signal, a biofeedback device that can detect that you're falling in theta send a beep in your ears to keep you alert is cool (put you back into alpha a little) but those things cost an arm and a leg to buy soon that is going to change at http://openeeg.sourceforge.net (freeware/public project), now imagine having a mahine like that eventually you're bound to obe successfully instead of having to fall asleep and mess up a day.

[naturechick89]

I also ahve this problm, I can tseem to gettht fr eery becuase i fall a sleep, i have trouble getting to sleep example last night fell sleep at 1 ish ish and woke up at 6:30(wihout tryin or alarm clocks) anybody have a way of fallin asleep faster so i an actually get somepalce, ive been attepting for beginning of allmsot 8 months(if i counted right early june)
help me please
...

[Zarklon]

I am very frustrated! I have been practicing my astral technique for OVER 4 weeks now and I cannot seem to do anything but fall asleep.

I will reach a state where the dream images aright keep flooding my mind and I cannot keep a clear mind for longer than ..say 10 seconds! I really have been noticing how the thoughts sneak up on  you and when you start counting your breaths , theres always some kind of mental movie that goes along with my breathing and without me wanting to actually focus on it , it just comes to my mind. I know that this makes me fall asleep and I cannot seem to project anymore

I try to go astral from my bed where I sleep ,  I want to be able to project from that spot since I'll be doing it everynight , I dont wanna just sit up in a chair or anything.

Does anyone know of a way to actually use those dream images to project? When you get real relaxed , you should notice that you cannot help but get a mental image in your mind and that image will make you fall asleep without you realizing it. I found that when I was counting my breaths last night , the breathing made a sort of white cloud image come to my mind and that turned into a dragon , the dragon turned into a dragon character on a game that I play and the game was then just in my mind. Thats how the images can turn into dreams , that fast .. it was a matter of 5 seconds from the white cloud to the game!

Is there anything I could do once I notice that these dream images are coming to me stronger and stronger and I start to realize that some sneak up on me and I notice that it takes me about 10 seconds to say "ohh hey I didnt realize I was focusing on this mental movie! **clears his mind again**"  ..  

What are your suggestions? My relaxation technique of breathing in and out and becoming more relaxed and limp with each exhale will put me to sleep in almost any environment so I know its a good relaxation technique.