quote:
To avoid making these kinds of mistakes and coming to potentially damaging conclusions, it is doubly essential to get a good understanding of the various ground rules that apply: preferably before you begin to project.
Great idea for a topic! [^]
What 'ground rules', including the ones you list in the above post, can you think of? What are some techniques we can use to train ourselves over time for astral objectivity?
quote:
Originally posted by Frank
"I have had OBEs that I now realize were merely lucid dreams.
The above sentence implies that this person would have to of had a true OBE experience in order to gauge what is in fact just a lucid dream and what is an OBE, a good way of making a comparison in my opinion.
Or that they were judging their experience on the basis of what others have told them to expect probably not so good if you are searching for your own personal truth.
I have experienced what I would call true OBE's and have also had lucid dreams about having OBE's, the similarities between the two were clear.
In my lucid dreams I was aware that I was generating the associated phenomena that come with an OBE, the Vibrations, sounds etc, it felt like an interpretation of what I should expect to experience, upon waking it was clear that an OBE had not taken place.
One analogy I would make would be to compare it to imaging what it would be like as a non-driver to drive a car based on your experience as a passenger compared to what it is like when you start to drive for the first time.
"... A conversation board on this theme is naturally understood to invite reasons why these astral experiences don't seem to convey such knowledge and why they don't "ring true." I have had OBEs that I now realize were merely lucid dreams. I am working with the complete set of Gateway CDs because someone who uses Bruce's method told me that OBEs are far more convincing than Bruce's techniques..."
I wanted to find an example where someone had projected but, rather than using the experience to forward their progress, they regressed due to their own faulty thinking. The above example is a classic and was reproduced from a post on the Bruce Moen message board (afterlifeknowledge.com).
This regression situation is caused because your early experiences with almost certainly be subjective in nature. In a subjective experience, because of the nature of the non-physical environment, to a large degree you will be creating your own reality. The sentence in question is where he says, "I have had OBEs that I now realize were merely lucid dreams.
This is what I call "subjective interference" and is a perfectly normal thing to experience at first.
Later, you can progress beyond that by gaining a deeper understanding of the various ground rules that apply. So after a while of practice, your experiences will become progressively more objective in nature. Until, finally, you are able to view your surroundings proper. In other words, you are viewing your true astral or non-physical surroundings without any interference from your own uncontrolled release of thoughts-release-emotions.
This process of learning does take a while. During which time the novice projector should refrain from coming to any firm conclusions while any subjective interference is apparent. The reason why you should hold off making any judgements is because at this beginning stage you are creating your own reality. Which many novice projectors are simply not aware of.
If you doubt your experience, as the poster above has obviously done, then you will find yourself in repeated situations where your doubt will become manifest. This, in turn, will have the serious effect of reinforcing your original doubt. Which in turn will have the effect of placing you in ever more doubtful circumstances that simply reinforce your doubt all the more, and so the spiral continues.
Eventually, the person's doubt will be confirmed to the point where they come to potentially far reaching conclusions that may seriously hinder their development. Such as, "I have had OBEs that I now realize were merely lucid dreams."
Remember, in a subjective experience, to a large extent you are creating your reality. This reality that you create is not some kind of half-baked affair you can easily see isn't actually real. No, not at all. The reality you create looks every bit as real and every bit as lifelike as ordinary physical reality! Which is, of course, the root cause or crux of the problem; as people do not believe it is themselves who are creating it.
Another classic example is the case of Susan Blackmore who had a few drug-fuelled "out of body" experiences that were highly subjective in nature, and then she went on to plug herself as some kind of authority on the non-reality of the obe phenomenon. Talk about making yourself look daft! From what she says it is blatantly obvious she has never had anything like a truly objective experience (and probably never will now).
To avoid making these kinds of mistakes and coming to potentially damaging conclusions, it is doubly essential to get a good understanding of the various ground rules that apply: preferably before you begin to project.
Yours,
Frank