Swedenborg: The Father of Astral Projection

[Berserk]

I am not a "Swedenborgian."   But in my view, Emanuel Swedenborg (hereafter ES) is the most accomplished astral explorer who ever lived, the explorer with the most impressive verifications.  He deserves to be labelled "the Father of Astral Projection."  I propose to use the 12 listed topical guidelines to introduce readers to the most important aspects of his gift and astral insights.  My major sources are ES's books, especially his classic, "Heaven and Hell," Wilson Van Dusen's survey of ES's insights in "The Presence of Other Worlds," and Ernst Benz, "Emanuel Swedenborg: Visionary Savant in the Age of Reason."      

A. Swedenborg: A Scientific Genius
B. His Evolving Methodology  
C. His Awesome Verifications
D. The 3 Stages of the Transition from Death to the Next Life
E. The Structure of the Spirit World
F. Life and Activities in a Timeless Spirit Plane
G. The Principle of Correspondence that Unites All the Worlds
H. The Nature of the Self
I.  How Swedenborg Discovers that His Astral Past Life Recall is Delusory
J. A Comparative Analysis: Hallucinations in
    Swedenborg and in Psychopathology  
K. Existence Itself as Symbolic
L. A Critique of Swedenborg

A. SWEDENBORG: A SCIENTIFIC GENIUS

Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772 AD) spent the first part of his life absorbing the scientific knowledge of his era and wrote over 100 scientific works.  He also mastered a repertoire of technical trades.  His primary occupation was that of mining engineer and inspector of mines.  But he was a  ground-breaking thinker in physics, chemistry, mathematics, and astronomy For example, he is particulary famous his nebular hypothesis.   He also made major contributions in anatomy and the neurosciences.  For example, he was the first to discover the functions of the brain's cerebellum.  He recognized a special funtion of the pituitary gland two centuries before modern endocrinology.  He was a metallurgist and is credited with founding the science of crystallography.  He also directed a project that moved ships over 14 miles of mountains and valleys.  He designed stoves, an ear trumpet, pumps and fire extinguishers, and a flying machine.  The list goes on and on.  

At age 56 in the 1740s, he shifted his focus to the nature of the pysche or  soul.  ln 36 volumes he recorded and interpreted his dreams and, in the process, anticipated many modern psychoanalytic insights.  He quickly realized that anatomical and neurological would not be very helpful in this new quest.  His former scientific approach was inadequate for such elusive matters.  This realization catapulted him down the road to mysticism and he was soon to merit the title 'the father of astral projection."  That is my judgment, not the judgment of Swedenborg or his followers.
My next post will focus on his evolving methodology that honed his unique spiritual gift.  

B. SWEDENBORG'S EVOLVING METHODOLOGY

Without knowing it, ES engaged from childhood in a meditation akin to Yogic and Buddhist practices.  He would relax, close his eyes, and focus in with total concentration on a scientific problem.  At the same time, his breathing would nearly stop and his awareness of the outer world and even bodily sensation would diminish to the point of vanishing.  He whole existence would focus on the one issue he wanted to understand.

What began as an intensely intellectual form of meditation ultimately progressed to an exploration of his dreams, the hypnogogic state, and later, trances.  The hypnogogic state is experienced twice a day as one goes into and out of sleep.  Few people have the discipline and focus to explore the spontaneous wellsprings of mind that bubble up from this state.  ES learned to converse with its symbolic inner processes.  Those who really explore this state can linger for hours watching scenes and hearing things said.  For some reason, some people are primarily visual during this state, and others, like myself, are primarily  auditory.

When I awaken, I often hear a whirring sound like a washing machine completing its cycle and also hallucinatory voices, both known and unknown.  I wonder if the whirring sound signals recent astral travel erased from my memory.  During his hypnogogic state, David Fontana often experienced a combination of waking paralysis and a sense of a menacing alien presence.  Upon further experimentation, he discovered that the alien presence was in fact a dim memory of his soul returning from a forgotten OBE state!

In the hypnogogic state, something is said or seen  before there is any possibility of grasping its meaning.  For example, in this state ES gains this insight: "As to pleasure, wealth, and rank, which I had pursued, I perceived that all was vanity and that he is the happier who is devoid of such things. ..I seemed to hear a hen cackling, as she does when she has laid an egg."  ES later realizes that chickens are not very bright.  Symbolically, his mind is warning him that his insight is nothing to be proud of and must be only the prelude to far more profound insights.

The sphere which most people rule within their minds is relatively small.  Unlike ES, the average person would find it very hard to hold one thought, image, or intention in mind for even one minute.  In the hypnogogic state, one can watch thoughts form and be spoken without one's behest.  Further, the inner processes think faster and more cleverly than the meditator and the symbolic language spoken may not even be understood.  By inspecting feelings, associations, and the situation being symbolized, it is possible to penetrate the symbol.  

For ES these inner states suggest the presence of other spiritual beings interacting with our lives.  Those who scoff at this suggestion have rarely shared ES's determination to  use the hypnogogic state as a springboard for more vivid waking trance states and ultimately for visits to the World of Spirits, the Hells, and the Heavens.  By contrast, we generally experience such inner states merely as pieces of the unconscious self bubbling to the surface.  ES's communal notion of of the earthly self would embrace both perspectives as valid!

SWEDENBORG'S DISCERNMENT OF THE GENUINENESS OF HIS PARANORMAL ENCOUNTERS

As his consciousness expands from dreams and hypnogogic states to waking trances, conversations with demons and angels, and visits to the afterlife territories, ES actively seeks out ways of validating his experiences.  In all these psychic states, he begins to experience the little-known phenomenon called photism or orbs of light.   The meditator seeking guidance finds a signal system to guide him.  ES sees an affirming flame.  He observes: "Such a flame appeared to me so often, and indeed, in different sizes in a diversity of color and splendor, that during some months when I was writing a certain work, hardly a day passed in which a flame did not appear as vividly as the flame of a household hearth."    Most people who experience orbs are puzzled by by their significance.  ES tested the validity of his flame and soon discovered that it was "a sign of approval."  He could, for example, correlate it with his scientific breakthroughs.  Both by its color and warmth, his flame symbolizes love and feeling.  During his expanded awareness, ES begins experiencing his guiding flame during his daytime trances and visions as well.

Too many modern astral adepts tend to accept the entities they encounter at face value without rigorously discerning their positive or negative ambience.  ES's passion to encounter the divine reinforces his discipline and resolve to test the spirits by sorting out their quality and usefulness.  He even experiences automatic writing.  He'd feel his hand being seized by lower-order spirits and forced to write things about biblical figures that he didn't even approve of.  But his most impressive verifications derive from evidence that he can truly contact the dead and gain from angels information that at times cannot be gleaned from the minds of incarnate humans.  This evidence will be discussed in my next planned post.

[catmeow]

OK, I should read up on Swedenborg.  I have read the works of all of the early astral projectors eg Oliver Fox, Sylvan Muldoon, JHM Whiteman, Yram, Vincent Turvey etc but never got into Swedenborg. I don't know too much about him, though I have read references to some of his "feats" in various books.  Somehow the early prjectors are much more interesting, it's as if they had something original to say whereas the new lot simply just churn out the same stuff...

[harry12345]

I am not a "Swedenborgian."   But in my view, Emanuel Swedenborg (hereafter ES) is the most accomplished astral explorer who ever lived, the explorer with the most impressive verifications.  He deserves to be labelled "the Father of Astral Projection."  I propose to use the 12 listed topical guidelines to introduce readers to the most important aspects of his gift and astral insights.  My major sources are ES's books, especially his classic, "Heaven and Hell," Wilson Van Dusen's survey of ES's insights in "The Presence of Other Worlds," and Ernst Benz, "Emanuel Swedenborg: Visionary Savant in the Age of Reason."       

A. Swedenborg: A Scientific Genius
B. His Evolving Methodology 
C. His Awesome Verifications
D. The 3 Stages of the Transition from Death to the Next Life
E. The Structure of the Spirit World
F. Life and Activities in a Timeless Spirit Plane
G. The Principle of Correspondence that Unites All the Worlds
H. The Nature of the Self
I.  How Swedenborg Discovers that His Astral Past Life Recall is Delusory
J. A Comparative Analysis: Hallucinations in
     Swedenborg and in Psychopathology 
K. Existence Itself as Symbolic
L. A Critique of Swedenborg

A. SWEDENBORG: A SCIENTIFIC GENIUS

Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772 AD) spent the first part of his life absorbing the scientific knowledge of his era and wrote over 100 scientific works.  He also mastered a repertoire of technical trades.  His primary occupation was that of mining engineer and inspector of mines.  But he was a  ground-breaking thinker in physics, chemistry, mathematics, and astronomy For example, he is particulary famous his nebular hypothesis.   He also made major contributions in anatomy and the neurosciences.  For example, he was the first to discover the functions of the brain's cerebellum.  He recognized a special funtion of the pituitary gland two centuries before modern endocrinology.  He was a metallurgist and is credited with founding the science of crystallography.  He also directed a project that moved ships over 14 miles of mountains and valleys.  He designed stoves, an ear trumpet, pumps and fire extinguishers, and a flying machine.  The list goes on and on. 

At age 56 in the 1740s, he shifted his focus to the nature of the pysche or  soul.  ln 36 volumes he recorded and interpreted his dreams and, in the process, anticipated many modern psychoanalytic insights.  He quickly realized that anatomical and neurological would not be very helpful in this new quest.  His former scientific approach was inadequate for such elusive matters.  This realization catapulted him down the road to mysticism and he was soon to merit the title 'the father of astral projection."  That is my judgment, not the judgment of Swedenborg or his followers.
My next post will focus on his evolving methodology that honed his unique spiritual gift. 

B. SWEDENBORG'S EVOLVING METHODOLOGY

Without knowing it, ES engaged from childhood in a meditation akin to Yogic and Buddhist practices.  He would relax, close his eyes, and focus in with total concentration on a scientific problem.  At the same time, his breathing would nearly stop and his awareness of the outer world and even bodily sensation would diminish to the point of vanishing.  He whole existence would focus on the one issue he wanted to understand.

What began as an intensely intellectual form of meditation ultimately progressed to an exploration of his dreams, the hypnogogic state, and later, trances.  The hypnogogic state is experienced twice a day as one goes into and out of sleep.  Few people have the discipline and focus to explore the spontaneous wellsprings of mind that bubble up from this state.  ES learned to converse with its symbolic inner processes.  Those who really explore this state can linger for hours watching scenes and hearing things said.  For some reason, some people are primarily visual during this state, and others, like myself, are primarily  auditory.

When I awaken, I often hear a whirring sound like a washing machine completing its cycle and also hallucinatory voices, both known and unknown.  I wonder if the whirring sound signals recent astral travel erased from my memory.  During his hypnogogic state, David Fontana often experienced a combination of waking paralysis and a sense of a menacing alien presence.  Upon further experimentation, he discovered that the alien presence was in fact a dim memory of his soul returning from a forgotten OBE state!

In the hypnogogic state, something is said or seen  before there is any possibility of grasping its meaning.  For example, in this state ES gains this insight: "As to pleasure, wealth, and rank, which I had pursued, I perceived that all was vanity and that he is the happier who is devoid of such things. ..I seemed to hear a hen cackling, as she does when she has laid an egg."  ES later realizes that chickens are not very bright.  Symbolically, his mind is warning him that his insight is nothing to be proud of and must be only the prelude to far more profound insights.

The sphere which most people rule within their minds is relatively small.  Unlike ES, the average person would find it very hard to hold one thought, image, or intention in mind for even one minute.  In the hypnogogic state, one can watch thoughts form and be spoken without one's behest.  Further, the inner processes think faster and more cleverly than the meditator and the symbolic language spoken may not even be understood.  By inspecting feelings, associations, and the situation being symbolized, it is possible to penetrate the symbol.   

For ES these inner states suggest the presence of other spiritual beings interacting with our lives.  Those who scoff at this suggestion have rarely shared ES's determination to  use the hypnogogic state as a springboard for more vivid waking trance states and ultimately for visits to the World of Spirits, the Hells, and the Heavens.  By contrast, we generally experience such inner states merely as pieces of the unconscious self bubbling to the surface.  ES's communal notion of of the earthly self would embrace both perspectives as valid!

SWEDENBORG'S DISCERNMENT OF THE GENUINENESS OF HIS PARANORMAL ENCOUNTERS

As his consciousness expands from dreams and hypnogogic states to waking trances, conversations with demons and angels, and visits to the afterlife territories, ES actively seeks out ways of validating his experiences.  In all these psychic states, he begins to experience the little-known phenomenon called photism or orbs of light.   The meditator seeking guidance finds a signal system to guide him.  ES sees an affirming flame.  He observes: "Such a flame appeared to me so often, and indeed, in different sizes in a diversity of color and splendor, that during some months when I was writing a certain work, hardly a day passed in which a flame did not appear as vividly as the flame of a household hearth."    Most people who experience orbs are puzzled by by their significance.  ES tested the validity of his flame and soon discovered that it was "a sign of approval."  He could, for example, correlate it with his scientific breakthroughs.  Both by its color and warmth, his flame symbolizes love and feeling.  During his expanded awareness, ES begins experiencing his guiding flame during his daytime trances and visions as well.

Too many modern astral adepts tend to accept the entities they encounter at face value without rigorously discerning their positive or negative ambience.  ES's passion to encounter the divine reinforces his discipline and resolve to test the spirits by sorting out their quality and usefulness.  He even experiences automatic writing.  He'd feel his hand being seized by lower-order spirits and forced to write things about biblical figures that he didn't even approve of.  But his most impressive verifications derive from evidence that he can truly contact the dead and gain from angels information that at times cannot be gleaned from the minds of incarnate humans.  This evidence will be discussed in my next planned post.

Sorry to 'Rain on your Parade' Don! But on another forum which you resided and posted for many years as the 'Ultimate authority on Christian Theology' ala your Harvard degree and education!...You constantly mentioned Swedenborg's ancient explanations as somewhat factual?..As if people in those days never lied! You constantly base your afterlife knowledge on Christian texts and assumptions when relating and analyzing their writings from these literary suspect dinosaurs!!?...In your  mental-emotional mind, people never lied in those ancient days!? You also mentioned the 'New Age Ghetto' as people who dwell in a 'Woo-Woo' land! Quote!...So where do you dwell?..In a Christian fantasy 'Mumbo-Jumbo' land!...(We must be right because there's more of us than you attitude? Besides, look at all the fantasy Hollywood movies that has been made about Christianity since Cecil B. DeMille presented us with his epic 'The Ten Commandments' in the 1920's, plus all the other countless fantasy productions that Hollywood gave to us since!..And this is not including the books and other media that this huge-rich world wide organization and Premier Number One Richest cult(christianity)spews out every year!)...You also mention Howard Storm and Betty Eadie in relation to afterlife experiences? Howard Storm is a phony as is Betty Eadie. Howard Storm mentions, in a video available to all internet users that its Jesus Christ or Hell, as told to him by 'Jesus'. There is no neutral or middle according to 'Jesus' or Howard!....In his book when he asked 'Jesus' what is the best religion, 'Jesus' mentions that there is no best religion, but the religion that brings you closest to God is the best for you!? I'll present the web address to this video of his where he mentions that it's 'Jesus' or 'Hell'. It used to be on Wikipaedia-re Howard Storm(Google)videos at the bottom of that page! Here's the Betty Eadie Link. Harry


Dear NDE group,

It has been well-documented that Betty Eadie's story is full of contradictions. Furthermore, Eadie has changed her story a number of times depending on the audience to which she is speaking. Her book "Embraced by the Light," was originally published as a MORMON book by Mormon publishers in Utah (Eadie has been a Momron since BEFORE her experience and reflects classic Mormon doctrine). It quickly became the #1 selling book among Mormons.

The general public then picked up on her story, which was quickly changed to be more palatible to the general audience. She quickly became a "Christian" and her books sold in Evangelical stores. Then, suddenly, Jesus in the light became just a light that could be Buddha or some other religious figure to someone else. Interestingly, there ae actually TWO versions of her book--one for Mormons and one for the rest of the country. Her original MORMON volume recounts how Jesus told Eadie abortion was wrong, it is a crime against the child. Then , in her second book, Jesus is suddenly very pro-choice and is saying something completely different. Also, distinctively Mormon phrases are removed.

I am an investigative reporter and member of the International Associatoin for Near Death Studies. In fact, the last Journal of Near Death Studies includes a brief piece that I wrote regarding Betty Eadie and other issues.

The true story behind Eadie's alleged NDE can be found documented in the book "Embraced by the Light and the Bible" (Horizon Books). Anonther book deals with NDEs and Eadie in a very thorough way entitled "Journey into the Light: Exploring NDEs" (Baker). Both books are available in Religious and secular bookstores.

raric
raric@aol.com

------------------
It has been thoroughly documented that Eadie is indeed a Mormon. The book was published by Momrons and initially distributed as a Momron book in Utah. A flyer contained in the initial printings included Eadie's Mormon testimony and spoke of her conversion to Mormonism BEFORE her NDE. This flyer was conveniently removed in all versions of the book that went out to the rest of the country. For photigraphic reprints of this flyer, see the book "Embraced by the Light and the Bible" (Horizon Books).

raric
raric@aol
-----------------------

Actually, although Eadie claims to be a Christian she has continually backed off of her claims about Jesus being teh Light. Furthermore, if you read her book carefully, she denigrates Christianity and such historic Christian teachings as the doctrine of the Trinity. Eadie also denies the unique deity of Jesus Christ. Eadie is certainly not pro-Christian> Many people use terms that SOUND Christian and pro-Christian, but the meanings they put behind these terms do not line up with what Christians really believe. In other words, if I were to go around using terms like Allah and Mohammed and called myself a Muslim, but then when I explained that I believed Allah was a four headed serpent God and Mohammed was a woman, I would not be representing teh religion of Islam. That is sort of the same thing Eadie does when she claims to be Christian.

raric
raric@aol       

[zareste]

Quite nice. He used nearly the same method I use to get scientific information telepathically. Except, over time, I learned to do it without a deep trance state - just casual telepathy there when I need it.

This guy sounds like a good role model to follow.

[Berserk]

Harry (raric):

This thread deals with Swedenborg, not with Betty Eadie or Howard Storm.  In my view, Betty Eadie is almost as unreliable as Robert Monroe in her uncritical acceptance and interpretation of her OBE (NDE).  So why your long irrelevant tirade against her?  As for atheist Howard Storm's NDE, Have you closely read this ex-atheist's book, "My Descent into Death?"  I can respond to your mischaracterization in a separate thread on Storm.  One manifestation of SOME New Agers like yourself is an inability to follow a train of thought to its logical conclusion.  Don't "assume."  When you "assume," you just make an "butt" of "u" and "me."  As for other posters, remember Harry's rant as you observe how I actually unfold this thread.

[Berserk]

(C) ES's AWESOME VERIFICATIONS: PART I: HIS CONVERSATIONS WITH THE DEAD

ES never contacted the dead just to satisfy the voyeuristic curiosity of supplicants; rather, he had to be convinced that such contacts would benefit them spiritually.  By his own admission, ES experienced hundreds of spectacular verifications of his gift of contacting deceased souls and angels in the spirit world.  But he mentioned none of these in his prolific writings.  The confirmatory incidents were all recorded out of the astonishment of the eyewitnesses.  ES refrained from disclosing his verifications for at least two reasons:

(a) He believes that miracles have a coercive effect on belief that too often undermines the quality of free will in spiritual matters.  In his view, impressive miracles tend to affect only the externals of belief.  In time, the internal, freely chosen path comes to rule and  even miraculous events are washed away and forgotten in the current of time.  God has created us to FEEL or intuit our way to Him, not to THINK our way to Him.  True, feelings can be shallow and unreliable.  ES is referring to our higher-level feelings that are rooted in a truly loving mpulse that can tune in to God's loving essence.  Even Jesus questions the power of miracles to convince skeptics to embrace spiritual truths in a life-transforming way (Luke 16:31).

(b) Besides, ES's gift is ridiculed by many of his contemporaries.  For example, consider this incident witnessed by Dr. Krohl.  One day at a large social gathering, Bishop Troilius decided "to amuse himself and the rest of the company at ES's expense."  He derisively posed this challenge to ES: "By the way, ...tell us something about the spirit world.  How does my friend Broman spend his time there?"  ES answered instantly, "I saw him just a few hours ago shuffling cards in the presence of the Evil One, and he was only waiting for your worship to make a game of Tresett."  An embarrassed Troilius had not told ES that Broman was one of his gambling buddies and that their card game of choice was Tresett!  Dr. Krohl notes, "The conversation...was thus brought to a close, and it is not difficult to see which of the two became the subject of the company's mirth." 

Perhaps, ES's allusion to "the Evil One" was meant tongue-in-cheek to knock Troilius down a peg.  The ensuing 3 incidents seem even more compelling:  (1) ES was once summoned for an audience with swedish Queen Lousia Ulrica.  She asked him if he could really converse with the dead.  When ES said "yes", she invited him and Count Sheffer to retire to a quiet spot where she asked ES to take a commission to her deceased brother.  The queen and her brother had been separated because their countries were at war when he died.  She did not really believe in ES's abilities.  Still, at his next audience with her, she lightly asked if he had a message from her brother.  ES suggested that they speak alone.  The queen was later described as in shock, so indisposed that she had to retire.  She said later that ES had revealed what no living person knew about her brother.  The message must have been intensely personal because neither ES nor the queen ever revealed it.

(2) Around 1770 a merchant from Elberfield visited ES after he had moved to Amsterdam.  He convinced ES that he had a burning spiritual quest and asked him if he could visit a recent deceased friend and ask him about their last conversation.  ES asked his friend's name and then asked the merchant to return in a few days.  Upon his return, ES smiled and said, "I have spoken with your friend; the subject of your conversation was the restitution of all things."  If ES had simply read the jeerchant's mind, one might expect ES's ESP to be limited to the last conversational subject in general.   But ES then accurately expounded in great detail the different positions that the merchant and his deceased friend had defended.  The merchant turned pale and asked, "Is he in a state of blessedness?"  ES replied, "No, he is not yet in heaven; he is still in Hades, and torments himself continually with the idea of the restitution of all things."  The merchant exclaimed, "My God!  What, in the other world?"  ES replied, "Certainly; a man takes with him his favorite inclinations and opinions, and it is very difficult to be divested of them.  We ought, therefore, to lay them aside here."  The awstruck merchant then went back to Elberfield and shared his confirmatory story.

(3) A skeptic might try to explain incidents (1) and (2) in terms of ESP derived from the minds of the living.  But our next incident seems to preclude that explanation.   In 1761 a countesse M. de Marteville came to ES and explained that her husband, the Dutch ambassador to Sweden, had just died.  He had given her a costly silver service just before he died and now the silversmith was demanding payment that she could no longer afford.  Besides, she felt certain that her husband had already paid for it.  She asked ES to contact her husband about the receipt.  ES agreed and 3 days later he visited her and reported what her husband had told him.  The receipt, it seems, was in an upstairs bureau.  She protested that she had already searched that bureau.  But the husband had told ES that she should look for a secret compartment behind a certain drawer.  the woman promptly went upstairs with ES, and to her astonishment, found the receipt, together with other important papers.  No one alive had known about this secret compartment.

To me, ES's verifications of information gleaned from "angels" [= loving discarnate humans] are even more impressive.   I will document this in my next scheduled post. 

[Panthau]

Thanks for the tip, just ordered a book from him.

But - why do you post all that stuff here? People are old enough
to decide wether to buy a book or not, and if you want to share your
books, just scan it and upload it

Pan

[Berserk]

[Panthau, none of my publications focus on ES.  The material in this and my prior post is mostly summarized from Wilson Van Dusen's, "The Presence of Other Worlds."\

(C) ES's AWESOME VERIFICATIONS: PART II  HIS CONVERSATIONS WITH ANGELS

ES claims that everyone has both angels from Heaven and spirits from Hell with them all the time, normally two of each.  He applies the term "angel" to discarnate humans in Heaven as opposed to Hell and the intermediary realm he calls "The World of Spirits."  His practiced mastery of discernment allows him to distinguish angels from the deceptive hellbound spirits.  Lower-order spirits like to pretend that they can predict and even control the future, but they cannot.  Modern astral adepts have seldom penetrated the heavens, and so, are often deceived by hallucinatory encounters with lower-order spirits.  But the Lord, Heaven, and angels essentially transcend time.  So anyone in contact with them can potentially read the past, present, and future, and even verify their contacts with the dead.

At first sight, some of ES's clairvoyant revelations might be due to ESP gleaned from the minds of eyewitnesses.  Condider these 2 cases: (1) Chris Springer was a Swedish politician and a close friend of ES.  Springer had been a major player in the secret negotiations between Sweden and Prussia.  After ES's death, Springer revealed that ES had psychically gleaned detailed knowledge of these negotiations.  ES discerned such details as who was present, what money was offered, what Springer had done, and why he had done it.  (2) In the middle of a conversation at an Amsterdam party, ES lost his awareness of those around him and entered a deep trance.  When he recovered, his dismayed associates asked him what had happened, but he initially refused to say.  But after much coaxing, he soberly described how Emperor Peter III of Russia had just been strangled in a prison in Kopsha, Russia.  He advised partygoers to note the date and his description, so they could later verify it from newspaper accounts.  A few days later, the local papers confirmed his report.

Skeptics challenged his ability to receive such premonitions.  His sister had died without his knowing it.  When chided about this, he explained that he was emotionally distant from her at the time of her death and, in any case, had not asked his angels about her.  When he did ask his angels to reveal when someone would die, he received accurate clairvoyance.  Two episodes illustrate this:

(1) At a Stockholm gathering, ES was challenged by skeptics to a test: he was asked to identify who of those present would die first.  ES immediately entered a profound state of meditation.  After a while, he shared the angels' reply: "Olof Olofsohn will die tomorrow morning at 4;45 AM."  This confident prediction transformed the mood of those present to one of anxious expectation.  One of Olofsohn's friends went to his house the next morning to test the prediction.  En route, he met one of Olofsohn's servants who informed him that his master had just died from a fit of apoplexy.  The clock in his home had stopped at the very moment he had expired and the hand pointed to 4:45!

This episode reminds me of 3 deaths in the Long family.  Nick Long died suddenly from a heart attack while a young man.  His son, Nick, Jr., was later distraught over a failed marriage and hung himself while his mother, Eleanor, was attending a funeral at my church.  Eleanor herself was killed in a fiery car crash a year later.  Eleanor's death hit me very hard because she was always very kind to me.  A week prior to her death, she had a dream in which several deceased relatives visited her home.  Her late husband came downstairs and asked her, "Honey, do you want to dance?"  Eleanor would ordinarily never turn down her husband's offer to dance, but she sensed that dancing was a symbol for her imminent passing.  So she replied, "Oh no, I'm not ready yet!"  These 3 deaths in the Long family had one thing in common with Ofofsohn's death: the clock in teir living room stopped at the time of death for all 3 of the Longs!  

(2) ES's ability to receive accurate death premonitions from angels is dramatically corroborated by an exchange of letters with John Wesley, the founder of Methodism.  ES wrote Wesley an unexpected letter, saying, "I have been informed in the world of spirits that you have a strong desire to converse with me; I shall be happy to see you if you will favor me with a visit."  Wesley received the letter in an English drawing room just as he and his followers were preparing for an extended speaking tour.  Wesley told those present that he was indeed eager to meet ES, but had told no one about this.  He wrote ES that their meeting would have to be postponed for 6 months until the completion of his speaking tour.  ES wrote back, apologizing that he could not meet him at that time because he was to die on the 29th of the next month, which, of course, he did.  

My Dad's friend Helmut can attest that ES's premonition about the exact date of his passing is not unprecedented.  Helmut's Dad always said he would die on his 91st birthday.  When that day arrived, he had no obvious health problems and no one dared comment of the fateful date.  He had a good breakfast and cheerfully announced he was going to take a nap.  He passed away peacefully durng the nap just as he'd always predicted.    

ES receives angelic clairvoyance of 3 accidents or acts of Nature, none of which can satisfactorily be explained in terms of ESP tapping the minds of eyewitnesses.  (1) In ES's day the uncertainties of wind and weather made it impossible to predetermine how many days a long sailing trip might take.  Sea captains generally took his presence on a ship as a sign that the journey would be safe and swift.  ES claimed he never feared these journeys because he had angels with him.  Those angels demonstrated their presence in a conversation ES had with a Captain Dixon as they embarked on a trip from London to Stockholm.  ES accurately predicted that the ship would arrive in Stockholm at 2 PM in exactly a week.    

(2) On July 17, 1750, he and 15 others were guests of the prominent merchant William Castel in Gothenberg at his fine home on Canal St.  At 6 PM, ES suddenly turned pale.  When asked what was wrong, he described a fire burning out of control at that moment in distant Stockholm.  in principle, he moght have acquired this information by ESP gleaned from the minds of Stockholm's residents.  But the ESP explanation cannot satisfactorily account for his detailed knowledge of the fire's course.  He described where it had started and where it was burning, including the inceration of a friend's house and the fact that the fire burned itself out just before it arrived at ES's home.  The next day the governor summoned ES and sought and received his report on the fire which was confirmed in detail the following day.

(3) In 1770, ES attended a social event in his honor in Gothenberg.  he sat beside Bolander, the owner of extensive cloth-mills.  During dinner, ES abruptly turned to Bolander and sharply instructed him: "Sir, you had better go to your mills!"  Bolander was taken aback at his rudeness, but nevertheless left the table and hurried to his mills.  A large piece of cloth had just fallen near the furnace and had begun to burn.  He arrived just in time to prevent his property from being reduced to ashes.  When he returned, he thanked ES.  ES smiled and explained that he had spoken so abruptly because he had "seen" that the danger was imminent.

Don

[harry12345]

Harry (raric):

This thread deals with Swedenborg, not with Betty Eadie or Howard Storm.  In my view, Betty Eadie is almost as unreliable as Robert Monroe in her uncritical acceptance and interpretation of her OBE (NDE).  So why your long irrelevant tirade against her?  As for atheist Howard Storm's NDE, Have you closely read this ex-atheist's book, "My Descent into Death?"  I can respond to your mischaracterization in a separate thread on Storm.  One manifestation of SOME New Agers like yourself is an inability to follow a train of thought to its logical conclusion.  Don't "assume."  When you "assume," you just make an "butt" of "u" and "me."  As for other posters, remember Harry's rant as you observe how I actually unfold this thread.

OK Donny Boy! Here's a 2005 thread where he teamed up with a 'Vampire Writer' to re-promote his book so's he, they, could earn more 'Mullah', 'Big Bucks', 'Muchos Pesos',..from his original 'My descent into Hell' which earned him small change!!!.....http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2005-02-21-rice-storm_x.htm   

[harry12345]

Don! Are there any writings calling him a fraud! Off course not! That's Swendenborg if you have forgotten!? You must be his 21st Century Advocate! I'm just wondering if he has appointed you as his voice?..All the way from all those 'True Heavens' you wrote and assured us about on Bruce Moens Message Board, over those many years you posted there! Have a nice day Mister Theologian! I'm sure you will rescue some 'backsliders' back into the Christian fold from this forum!!!!!

[Berserk]

C. PART III: SIGNS ES USED TO AID THE VERIFICATION PROCESS:

Source: ES's "Spiritual Diary (1748)" as quoted in Ernst Benz, "Swedenborg: Visionary Savant in the Age of Reason"

In my view, ES sometimes confuses his own perceptions and belief systems with divine revelation.  But his verifications are far, far superior to those of modern astral adepts.  So some of the features of the verification system set up for him should be of widespread interest--particularly in view of the lack of any system of verification in modern astral exploration.  I will now quote from his early diary:

"For several years I had not only dreams through which I was taught the very things I was now writing, but I also experienced changes in my state while writing.  An extraordinary light appeared in the things I wrote.  Later I had various visions with closed eyes and wonderful illuminations.  I also experienced visitations from spirits, so clear to the senses, as if they were occurring bodily.  I experienced various visitations from evil spirits whenever I was in temptation.  Whenever I wrote something which the spirits disliked, I was almost possessed by them and felt like shivering.  I saw burning lights and heard conversations in the early morning besides many other things, until a spirit spoke some words to me, and I was amazed that he could read my thoughts."

"An enormous flaming light appeared unexpectedly before my eye, which it pierced in an indescribable fashion.  The flame pierced not only my eye, but also the inner vision which I now clearly perceive.  Soon I perceived something...like a dark cloud, in which there was, however, something earthly.  The dark cloud represents the state of intelligence of lower spiritual powers.  The light itself is distinguished according to its type and luminosity: the flaming light of the first vision means the heavenly; the vibrating bright light like a white flame means the spiritual."

"After ES or an angel [= a discarnate saint] had refuted erroneous teachings...at a meeting in the world of spirits, a shaft of light or a radiant flame-like fire descended from  heaven as a sign of divine confirmation.  Wonderful changes usually occurred to these spirits in this heavenly light.  All who persisted in their error [i. e. were stuck in their prior belief system] turned away in dread from the intolerable light, and they were scared into hell.  But those who had been seized by the truth...were included in a higher and purer community of heavenly spirits according to their illumination [i. e. vibratory frequency]."

[Berserk]

D. THE 3 STAGES OF THE TRANSITION FROM DEATH TO THE NEXT LIFE:

I take seriously what ES's astral explorations have revealed on this subject because of his many awesome verifications of his conversations with angels and other discarnate humans.  ES claims that we was allowed to witness all 3 initial stages after death.  My source here is ES's classic book "Heaven and Hell" (= HH) from which I will now quote extensively:

"When we die, we are still alive and just as human as ever.  To convince me of this, [the Lord] has allowed me to talk with almost all the people I have ever met during their physical lives, with some for a few hours, with some for weeks and months, and some for years.  This was primarily so that I could be convinced and bear witness (#437)."

"There are three states that we pass through after death before we arrive at either heaven or hell.  The first state is one of more outward concerns.  The second is one of more inward concerns, and the third is one of preparation.  We go through all three states in the world of spirits.  Some people do not go through these states, but are either raised into heaven or cast into hell immediately after their death (HH #491)."  

The "world of spirits" is a transitional state between the heavens and hells and seems to be the equivalent of Focus 25 and 26 in the nomenclature of Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen.  The highest level of the world of spirits seems to be the equivalent of Focus 27.  In biblical terms, the world of spirits embraces Hades (not to be confused with Hell) in its lower planes and Paradise, an old Persian term for "park", in its upper planes.  The exact nature of life in these spirit planes will be detailed in a future post.   

(1) OUR FIRST STATE AFTER DEATH

"We use the outward aspects of our spirit to adapt our bodies in the world--especially our faces, our speech, and behavior--to our interactions with other people.  The more inward aspects of our spirit are the ones proper to our intentions and consequent thought, which rarely show in faces, speech, and behavior.  We are trained from infancy to present ourselves as friendly, benevolent, and honest, and to conceal the thoughts of our own intentions.  As a result, of this habitual behavior, we scarely know our inner natures and pay no attention to them (HH #492)."

"Our first state after death is like our state in the world, since we are then similarly involved in outward concerns. We have similar faces, voices, and character; we lead similar moral and civic lives.  That is why it still seems to us as though we were in this world unless we notice things that are out of the ordinary (HH 493)."

Most NDEs are marvelous experiences.  But ES chillingly insists that the initial postmortem state is normally wonderful even for people who will ultimately find their way to a hell.  ES's mention of their trips to gorgeous gardens and parks in the first state recalls descriptions of Focus 27:

"Their friends...take them around to various places, into the company of different people.  They go to different cities, to gardens and parks, often to gorgeous ones because things like that appeal to the outward concerns they are involved in.  Many of them think they will make it into heaven because they led moral and civic lives in the world, not reflecting that both good and evil people lead similar outward lives (HH #495)."

ES adds that "the first state after death...rarely lasts more than a year for anyone (HH #498)."   This fits neatly with modern research on contacts received by the recently bereaved from deceased loved ones.  One study indicated that 50% of Americans and 48% of the British report convincing contacts with their deceased loved ones within the first year since their death.  After that, the number of such contacts dramatically dwindles. Making such contacts is much harder for those who have moved on from the world of spirits to a heaven or a hell.

(2) OUR SECOND STATE AFTER DEATH

"Our second state after death is called a state of our deeper interests because then we are given access to the deeper reaches of our minds, or of our intentions and thoughts, while the more outward interests that engaged us in the first state become dormant (HH #499)."  "We as spirits are brought...into the state of those deeper intentions and consequent thoughts we engaged in when we were left to ourselves in the world and our thinking was free and unfettered (HH #502)."

At this stage we shed aspects of self that were shaped by social expectations, peer pressure, and the need to present an acceptable presenting self that can mask our inner self.  As a result, "people who were inwardly devoted to the good...then behave..more wisely than when they were living in the world...In contrast, people who were focused on evil...then behave more insanely then when they were in the world (HH #505)."  It now becomes impossible to act one way and inwardly be another.  The person pauses at this threshold world long enough to become one with her own nature.  

"Once people like this are in the second state, they are let back into the state of their more outward concerns for brief periods of time.  They then retain a memory of how they behaved when they were in the state of their more inward concerns.  Some of them are embarrassed and admit they were insane.  Some of them are not embarrassed at all.  Some of them resent the fact that they are not allowed to be in the state of their more outward concerns all the time, but they are shown what they would be like if they were continually in this state.  They would constantly be trying to do the same things covertly, misleading people of simple heart and faith with simulations of goodness, honesty, and fairness.  They would destroy themselves completely because eventually their outer natures would be ablaze with the same fire as their inner natures (HH  #506)."

"The things they [evil people] had done and said in secret are now made public, too, because now,  since outward factors are not constraining them, they say the same things openly, and they keep trying to the same things without any fear for the reputations they had in the world...They [visually] look to angels and good spirits like the [evil] people they really are (HH 507)."

(3) OUR THIRD STATE AFTER DEATH

"Our third state after death is one of instruction.  This state is for people who are entering a heaven and becoming angels and not for people who are entering a hell, because the latter cannot be taught (HH 512)."  Their close-mindedness prevents them from sensing the vast heavenly world beyond the world of spirits.  "As a result, their second state... ends in their turning straight toward...the hellish community that is engaged in a love like their own."  The general intention of the hells is to ignore God and vault the interests of self above all others.  

Of course, the heavens are not just reserved for Christians.  On the one hand, ES casually mentions bishops he has encountered in hell.  This is just one of the reasons why ES was branded a heretic by churches of his day.  On the other hand, humble and teachable agnostics who have lived the equivalent of a loving Christian life will then be "taught things like that God exists, that heaven and hell exist, that there is a life after death, that God is to be loved above all, and our neighbor as ourselves, and that we are to believe what is said in the Word because the Word is divine (HH #512)."  

[zareste]

Damn, forget that stuff I said about him being a role model. I'll bet right now he's reincarnated as a chicken in some factory farm

[Berserk]

zareste,

Actually, ES's discoveries are quite compatible with the Focus structures identified by Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen.  What makes ES unique is that his explorations are far more extensive and his verifications are far more impressive.  A rational personal must not simply embrace what fits his preconceived notions and discard what challenges his perspectives.  Overall, modern adepts follow a New Age party line.  As such, their perspective are biased in an analogous way to the unified NDEs of many Fundamentalist Christians.  Fact and interpretation are inseparable in this realm; so verifications are crucial.  What makes ES's astral journeys so impressive is that he is so little influenced by contemporary role models, whether Christian or eastern.  And his astral journeys anticipated Darwin's evolutionary discoveries a century in advance.

[outofbodydude]

Don

Swedenborg claims that our inner nature does not change.  Therefore, if your inner nature is evil, you will be destined to hell, and being that this inner nature is forever the same, it would be impossible to evolve into higher levels of the afterlife.  But then Swedenborg claims that he has witnessed retreivals of individuals being rescued from the Hells and finding a new home in heaven.  What is your take on this contradiction?

[Berserk]

E. THE STRUCTURE OF THE SPIRIT WORLD--PART I: DOWNWARD AND UPWARD MOBILITY  

Dude,

Your question provides a natural transition to my next topic and is the best question I've been asked on this site.  A full answer would require me to read everything ES has ever written. I have not done this yet, but will give you my provisional reply.  I think the answer requires a recognition that ES is somewhat inconsistent in the way he describes the intermediary realm between the heavens and and hells--the World of Spirits, which seems to contain the Hollow Heavens and the upper hells discovered in Bruce's Moen's explorations of Focus 25-26 (terms borrowed from TMI).  ES's astral insight that new discarnates in the World of Spirits gradually ascend to a heaven or descend to a hell may already imply the use of retrievals. because ES describes the role of astral schools and makes it clear that astral progress is ultimately a matter of choice and of achieving the right energetic for ascent.  In my view, this "upward or downward" journey already implies a system in which the core personality can evolve, especially since ES's astral discoveries anticipate Darwin's theory of evolution by a century.  

As you know, Bruce Moen is especially concerned with the work of spirit retrievals; yet even he insists that it is almost impossible to retrieve souls in the lower hellish planes.  But here, ES seems more optimistic:  in his later works, he implies that even denizens of the hells can be converted and retrieved.  His biographer, Ernst Benz reports that ES has converted denizens of the hells with the result that their human appearance is restored: "The devils he converts change before his eyes, lose their bestial form, and regain their human faces (Benz, p. 327).  By "devils" ES does not mean demons in the traditional sense, but evil humans.  Perhaps, ES's astral perspective evolves over the years.  I hope to track down ES's retrieval references to which Benz alludes.  Ther are none in ES's "Heaven and Hell."

[harry12345]

E. THE STRUCTURE OF THE SPIRITUAL PLANES:



  Don!! You don't have to repeat all your posts, whether original or 'copy and pasted' from all those Afterlife Forums you posted on for many years! You may have re-edited them, but this this does not sway the readers from your original posts, from all those other forums, over the years, who originally read them! I sincerely ask you to seek(spiritual)counseling help!.. As I see you now heading the same way as your former girlfriend who committed suicide for her own personal reasons...Love God!

 

Dude,

Your question provides a natural transition to my next topic and is the best question I've been asked on this site.  A full answer would require me to read everything ES has ever written. I have not done this yet, but will give you my provisional reply.  I think the answer requires a recognition that ES is somewhat inconsistent in the way he describes the intermediary realm between the heavens and and hells--the World of Spirits, which seems to contain the Hollow Heavens and the upper hells discovered in Bruce's Moen's explorations of Focus 25-26 (terms borrowed from TMI).  ES's astral insight that new discarnates in the World of Spirits gradually ascend to a heaven or descend to a hell may already imply the use of retrievals. because ES describes the role of astral schools and makes it clear that astral progress is ultimately a matter of choice and of achieving the right energetic for ascent.  In my view, this "upward or downward" journey already implies a system in which the core personality can evolve, especially since ES's astral discoveries anticipate Darwin's theory of evolution by a century. 

As you know, Bruce Moen is especially concerned with the work of spirit retrievals; yet even he insists that it is almost impossible to retrieve souls in the lower hellish planes.  But here, ES seems more optimistic:  in his later works, he implies that even denizens of the hells can be converted and retrieved.  His biographer, Ernst Benz reports that ES has converted denizens of the hells with the result that their human appearance is restored: "The devils he converts change before his eyes, lose their bestial form, and regain their human faces (Benz, p. 327).  By "devils" ES does not mean demons in the traditional sense, but evil humans.  Perhaps, ES's astral perspective evolves over the years.  I hope to track down ES's retrieval references to which Benz alludes.  Ther are none in ES's "Heaven and Hell."

[outofbodydude]

Harry

You are way out of line. 

Like Don, I also post certain threads which I feel are important on a few different forums.  This allows for a broader range of responses and insights.  A thread which is quite dull on one forum may be alive and full of excellent responses on another forum. 

If you don't like this, you have the option of not reading the thread.

[Berserk]

E. THE STRUCTURE OF THE SPIRIT WORLD--PART II: THE HELLS

For ES all of earthly life is a preparation for a postmortem existence in which our core desires and feelings towards others cannot be hidden in face-to-face encounters.  In the next life we naturally gravitate towards people who share our values and want to play by our rules.  Besides, in the spiritual world there is no discrepancy between physical proximity and spiritual remoteness.  Essential affinity is presence, and essential incompatibility is distance.  For these reasons, "the Lord never turns His face away from anyone or spurns anyone, never casts anyone into hell or is angry (HH 545)."  "The divine aura that emanates from the Lord is a constant effort to save everyone (HH 595)."  "The Lord does not punish anyone: demonic society itself does (AC 245)" and its denizens ultmately choose that society because they feel most comfortable there.   The various levels of hell are appallingly squalid "in heaven's light," but quite glamorous in their own light (e. g. HH 553)..  Spirits who look "bad" to the "good" will look attractive to the "bad" who share the same core desires and values.  "When spirits voluntarily arrive at their hell and go in, they are accepted cordially at first and think that they have arrived among friends.  This lasts only a few hours, though.  All the while they are being probed to find out how crafty they are and, therefore, how powerful.  Once this probing is complete, the attacks begin in various ways (HH 574)."  "The hells are governed by means of angels [righteous discarnate humans]  who are given the ability to look into the hells and check the insanities and riots there.  Sometimes angels are sent there and their very presence brings matters under control (HH 342)."  Many modern NDEs seem to bear witness this supervisory role, notably the NDE of Dr. George Ritchie, whose experience prompted Raymond Moody to write the book that sparked modern interest in NDEs.  

"These two loves, love for oneself and love for the world, rule in the hells and actually constitute the hells...Love for the Lord and love for one's neighbor rule in the heavens and actually constitute the heavens (HH 554)."  ES identifies 3 basic levels of hells, each of which contains countless communities based on subtle distinctions determined by the principle like attracts like. (1) The first and mildest level supremely values brute force and is focused on behavior.  Here no one trusts anyone: one must either control or be controlled.  Spirits are reluctantly forced into alliances not out of sympathy, but out of common resentment of a common enemy.  Spirits are insensitive to the motivations of their partners because they are insensitive to their own motivations.  Yet in their minds, they are often "happy" because they enjoy the thrill of vengeance and the hatred that fuels it.  They establish new emotional normals.  Alliances are constantly broken down and reformed with new members as one's role fluctuates from victim to victimizer.

(2) The 2nd level of hells focuses not on brute force, but on the workings of the human mind.  Spirits here will try to con you out of anything you own.  Here your intellect is focused not on the effort to understand things as they are, but to create the illusion that they are as you want them to be.  The goal is not a cooperative venture to solve mysteries, but an egotistic obsession with defending one's point of view.

(3)The 3rd level of hells focuses on the workings of the human heart  Spirits here will try to work on your feelings until you have no will of your own.  ES associates the 3rd hell with the malignant creation of illusions.  Our feelings, undisciplined by rationality or realism, construct fantasy worlds where anything can happen.  Everyone at this level is a creator as well, which means that cosmic conflicts constantly erupt in which the odds are all against you.  Occasionally, you may prevail and your illlusions may invade the minds of your opponents; but more often you find yourself to be the martyr.  But in each mental battle, the winners become special targets in the next conflict.

In my next 2 planned posts, I will survey ES's experiences and insights into the World of Spirits and the heavens.

[zareste]

Actually, ES's discoveries are quite compatible with the Focus structures identified by Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen.  What maes ES unique is that his explorations are far more extensive and his verifications are far more impressive.  A rational personal must not simply embrace what fits his preconceived notions and discard what challenges his perspectives

So you can see why it's a problem when you rearrange information and use it as a weapon for religion.

[Berserk]

E. THE STRUCTURE OF THE SPIRIT WORLD: PART III: THE HEAVENS

In the heavens communication is telepathic, and so, is no longer based on human languages.  As ES puts it, "They are not able to utter...any name (AC 1876)."  There is no time as we know it in the heavens.  This transcendence of time explains why ES's angels [= discarnate righteous humans]
can be so accurate in their predictions. Modern adepts are often fooled by astral  predictions that emanate from ignorant but pretentious lower planes.  

ES encounters beings from other planets in the universe who expand the immensity of heaven.  In the heavens, everyone lives in societies with people of similar uses and disposition.  ES's astral travels reveal that heaven is far from a place of ideness.  Everyone there has spiritual work to do:

"Some spirits have believed that heavenly happiness consisted of a life of leisure.  Then they were shown in many ways that heavenly life consists of...thoughtful actions...that are services to others...So that these people might feel shame...they are allowed to perceive what kind of life this [idleness] would be.  They see that it is thoroughly miserable (HH 403)."  

ES's picture fits neatly with biblical teaching.  St. Paul asks rhetorically: "Don't you know that the saints will judge the world?...Don't you know that we will judge angels (1 Corinthians 6:2-3)?"  The Greek for "judge" can be translated "exercise jursidiction over" and the Greek for "world" ("kosmos") can be translated "universe".  So Paul's questions might be translated; "Don't you know that we will have jurisdiction over angel?"  and "Don't you know that the saints will exercise jurisdiction over the universe?"  Thus understood, the latter question may imply a future role for humans as co-creators with God in new universes!  In this regard, the identity of the "us" in Genesis 1:27 is intriguing: "Let us make man in our image."  This can be neither a literary we nor a reference to the Trinity.  So the "us" may refer to intelligent beings from prior creations and may thus hint at our ultimate destiny.  ES learns that there is government in heaven, but only those who are truly useful to others are allowed such power.  This insight parallels Jesus claim that the extent of personal civic jurisdiction in heaven depends on one's faithfulness in performing earthly responsibilities (Luke 19:16-19).

Spirits in the hells and the intermediate realm (ES's "world of spirits") are visible to souls in the heavens.  But "the heavens are not visible to spirits in the world of spirits unless their spiritual sight has been opened (HH 583)."  Those bound for heaven sense that there is an ultimate higher power and are determined to relate to it.  

In my view, Robert Monroe's aversion to the loving God of conventional spiritualities prevents him from exploring the heavens beyond Focus 27.  Some of his "Knowns" seem traceable to misunderstandings emanating from the lower astral planes:  e.g.

"These to me are Knowns: This, our Creator...does not demand worship, adoration, or recognition, does not punish for `evil' or `misdeeds', does not intercede or interdict in our life activity (UJ 224-25)."  

His biased terms "demand" and "punish" deflect attention away from two truths disclosed by Swedenborg's angels: (1) The heavenbound delight in in worshiping God and feasting on His love.  (2)  Many people are truly evil, but they in effect punish themselves by choosing to ignore the godly loving path in favor of the hellbound path on the basis of the principle like attracts like.  

Consider Monroe's astral principle: "There is no good, there is no evil.  There is only expression (UJ 217)."  This narcissistic principle is embraced by denizens of the lower astral planes, not by the higher heavens which Monroe, unlike ES, has been unable to visit.  This stress on self (valueless self-expression) stands in contrast with the resolve of the heavenbound according to ES: their humility and respect for the greatness of creation fuels a deep resolve to be with others and be of significant use to them.  In the heavens, says ES, the joy of one is the joy of all.  By contrast, the general design of the hells is an orientation towards self over others.  This splits existence apart and causes hell's  dissension.  Despite this, those with this orientation will most comfortably drift towards the company of likeminded people in the hells because they nevertheless feel better there than in the company of saints.  It just suits them better than the heavens.  

According to Monroe, in the astral planes, "there is no greater, there is no lesser.  There is only balance (UJ 217)."  This claim echoes ES's principle which, in my view, expresses this truth more accurately: "The relationship of heaven and hell...is like that of two opposites that act against each other.. This action and reaction yield a state of equilibrium within which everything exists...This is the spiritual balance which provides us with our freedom for thinking and intending (HH 536-57)."  Thus, hell is part of the enrichment of ultimate possibilities.    

[zareste]

are we finished selling religions and books yet?

[Berserk]

New Agers are generally close-minded to perspectives outside their Ghetto.  But some readers of a version of this thread on another site were actually converted through it.  Some of those initially became Swedenborgians.  This displeased me because ES's interpretations of Scripture have little value for moderns.  Only at the end of this thread will I offer my critique of ES.  Some progressed from New Agers, to Swedenborgian groupies, to more conventional Christians.  This greatly pleased me.  

No modern astral adept can match the quality of ES's verifications and the depth and elegance of his overview.  This will become increasingly obvious to readers as the thread progresses.  I'm glad that it annoys a close-minded New Ager like you that a healthy does of ES sells books.  Many books on ES were sold as a result of my ES thread on another site.  I could care less whether they buy ES books or not.

[zareste]

zareste: "this is just going to get worse."  Yes, because your personal attacks mask your inability to engage me critically on these issues.  I will be glad to make constructive use of you as my academic whipping boy.  But I'd rather engage you politely man to man in the arena of conflicting ideas.  You can start by admitting you were misled about the Council of Constantinople.  If you engage the issues with an unexpected demonstration that you are house-broken,  you will be surpised at my change in attitude and style of communication.

[joel1212]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh