Do we really have souls?

[Veccolo]

OBEs don't prove the soul, neither do they prove an afterlife. If they exist (the ones where reading cards etc. is possible), they'd prove that ESP (extrasensory perception) is real.

[no_leaf_clover]

quote:OBEs don't prove the soul, neither do they prove an afterlife. If they exist (the ones where reading cards etc. is possible), they'd prove that ESP (extrasensory perception) is real.

Wouldn't that prove that the mind can exist outside of the body?

[Veccolo]

It would prove that our "mind" can perceive things which lie outside of our "standard" senses (taste, sight, sound etc).

[upstream]

This conversation will not work without defining mind, consciousness and soul.

[Nagual]

So far, the only "proof" I got was to realize that my own experience matched others; and without reading any information beforehand...  If it was all imagination; it would be a really huge coincidence!

And don't be skeptical.  Be open-minded while not being gullible...

[mactombs]

quote:And don't be skeptical. Be open-minded while not being gullible...

That's actually the true definition of skeptical. Now it's a term used more for feeling critical. But I do agree with your point. It's not useful to doubt that none of this is real, it's better to take the middle ground and investigate both ways.

Personal experience is important here. Also, what's the difference between being able to "perceive things which lie outside of our 'standard' senses" and being out-of-body?

[Veccolo]

A distinction may seem trivial to many people, but I think it's very important.

The difference would be, that the informations while perceiving come to you. Like the light which is reflected to our eyes which makes it possible to see.

While having an obe, you could perceive things through a possible sixth sense. So the illusion of walking around and seeing things while having one could be seen as a "justification" of this special sense. The brain translates these informations into images, smells, the illusion of walking around and so on, because of our dominant 5 senses we use while awake.

That means, you aren't really outside of your body, you perceive the informations which come to you.

I hope you can understand what I mean, as my english might be insufficient to explain it properly.

[manuel]

Interesting theory there Veccolo, but i am going to say i have to disagree with that, I have read a lot of other experiences, from both citizens and authors that contradict that.

[narfellus]

quote:For starters, if we really do have these 7 different bodies (astral, mental, etc.) or soul, where do they come from? When does a new-born get these other bodies or soul? What about clones? What about cloned organs?

I think the original question got a little lost in the thread. Projected OBE have more to do with the mental attributes of the human energetic body. The actual SOUL itself is a rather complicated issue that dozens if not hundreds of metaphyscial books (and spiritual) detail. I've not successful projected, but i do believe in a soul, and i also believe in OBE. It is a rather complicated issue Maven, one that cannot be fully expressed in an email post. People can SAY whatever they want, whatever holds truth for them, but that truth is not necessarily the same for someone else based on their experiences.

So here's my opinion, and i encourage you to research it yourself and come to your own conclusion, for it is very important to the spiritual growth of all humans to know where they came from and how they work; it's really the reason we are on Earth.

Our bodies are held by a soul, and a soul is larger than you think. We are not consciously aware of our soul at birth, by design, but we have an inborn yearning desire to understand. Some people search for this answer, some don't. Many find it, most don't. Our mind and body here on earth is but a SMALL piece of our larger self, our higher form, and we have many guides and friends to help us if we seek them.

[The Maven]

I'm still feeling skeptical about these OOBE's and astral projections. According to the descriptions of astral projections on this site, I've been really close to "getting out". However, that doesn't prove anything to me, it might just be my brain, which, by the way, is something we don't fully understand yet. It's a very complex organ that could very well be capable of producing powerful hallucinations, making some people believe that our "astral body" is leaving our physical body.

Don't take my skepticism as hostility, as I simply curious to know how believers reply to some very good points brought up by non-believers. I am personally undecided as far as this question goes, I'm trying to make up my mind.

For starters, if we really do have these 7 different bodies (astral, mental, etc.) or soul, where do they come from? When does a new-born get these other bodies or soul? What about clones? What about cloned organs?

Please let me know what you think