Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tayesin on July 24, 2003, 18:27:06
Post by: Tayesin on July 24, 2003, 18:27:06
Hi Shadow.
That is an interesting concept you have there. Next time you go astral touch your self, you will find that you feel very solid. Why? because it is a reality. Touch something in your bedroom while you are astral and your hand will pass through it. Why? Because you are vibrating at a higher frequency and the 'real world' is no longer a solid reality.
We are all a part of the one consciousness, a very unique part of it as each is very individualized. But that does not mean that we are limited by this, in fact, the reverse is true. Because we are all very powerful beings, we are only limited by our beliefs and concepts. If we move past belief systems, we free ourselves from the boundaries we have imposed on ourselves.
So little brother I would say to you, please practice as much as possible. Get out there and experiment for your self. That is the only way to come to know your true Self and find the answers that are already within the great Soul that you are.
I hope this is helpful to you. Love always.
P.S. Sorry if this sounds preachey.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 18:47:52
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 18:47:52
Its slightly on the preachish side, but its a great post anyhoo, thanx for your input, its always valued!
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tayesin on July 24, 2003, 19:15:37
Post by: Tayesin on July 24, 2003, 19:15:37
quote:
Originally posted by shadowatcher
Its slightly on the preachish side, but its a great post anyhoo, thanx for your input, its always valued!
Yep, I am working on the trying not to sound like a preacher thing. It can be quite difficult when the words are given to me and I just type them in. Try hard not to put my own slant on what Guidance provides.
Anyway Shadow, you are very welcome. Thanx.
Love always.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: beavis on July 24, 2003, 19:19:46
Post by: beavis on July 24, 2003, 19:19:46
shadowatcher "I think its impossible to meet people there because any entities or sentient beings you did meet woudl be a product of your own mind."
A lot of what you see there is from your own mind, but not all. I've confirmed that in "real time zone" 3 times, but not astral. I'm sure there is a real connection between (some) people. I've done telepathy (which is related to astral) a few times correctly.
"So, if the astral plane is not as I say, and is not a physical place...what is it?"
It doesnt obey the same laws of physics we have here, but that doesnt mean its all in your brain. Its a place where the laws of physics include what everybody is thinking as a parameter, instead of weight or speed.
"If it isnt either of those, perhaps it is a non-physical place that is individually apearing for everyone, yet the content is the same. So everyone is in the same non-physical place, it justs apears different..."
Holographic universe theory is similar to that. I think its likely true because it doesnt contradict relativity (of spacetime only) or quantum physics. It basically says astral is like a big brain with each of us being a small part of it that cant communicate with the rest of the brain much because we think too differently. In a brain each part can get almost the same info but in different ways. We dont want to obey the "universal laws" (intent attraction allowance balance) because earth is a distraction, so communication to the rest of the brain is like 2 different languages. I've found that when I want to and do obey them (directed to the object I'm trying to move), my telekinesis ability is a lot more, so the laws are probably correct.
A lot of what you see there is from your own mind, but not all. I've confirmed that in "real time zone" 3 times, but not astral. I'm sure there is a real connection between (some) people. I've done telepathy (which is related to astral) a few times correctly.
"So, if the astral plane is not as I say, and is not a physical place...what is it?"
It doesnt obey the same laws of physics we have here, but that doesnt mean its all in your brain. Its a place where the laws of physics include what everybody is thinking as a parameter, instead of weight or speed.
"If it isnt either of those, perhaps it is a non-physical place that is individually apearing for everyone, yet the content is the same. So everyone is in the same non-physical place, it justs apears different..."
Holographic universe theory is similar to that. I think its likely true because it doesnt contradict relativity (of spacetime only) or quantum physics. It basically says astral is like a big brain with each of us being a small part of it that cant communicate with the rest of the brain much because we think too differently. In a brain each part can get almost the same info but in different ways. We dont want to obey the "universal laws" (intent attraction allowance balance) because earth is a distraction, so communication to the rest of the brain is like 2 different languages. I've found that when I want to and do obey them (directed to the object I'm trying to move), my telekinesis ability is a lot more, so the laws are probably correct.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 19:37:40
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 19:37:40
Wow, thanx for thinking so hard...
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: beavis on July 24, 2003, 19:43:58
Post by: beavis on July 24, 2003, 19:43:58
Pmonline must have deleted his post. Here's part of it:
"if your astral body is exactly the same vibrational rate of the astral plane you're in then it will not just float right threw it. But if your at a different rate and not lock-in / in-sync then yes your hand will go right threw it."
That works well with holographic universe theory (in my above post) if vibration rate = a specific neuron path in the holographic brain. A real brain stores info as the paths between neurons, and it will go in a circle path (vibrate) while you think about something. 2 ideas can interact only if there is a circular path between them (according to the knowledge about brains I received from astral). Thinking about the 2 ideas at the same time will cause a path to be found (usually through other ideas) between them. The point is that astral vibrations work the same way as ideas in a brain.
"if your astral body is exactly the same vibrational rate of the astral plane you're in then it will not just float right threw it. But if your at a different rate and not lock-in / in-sync then yes your hand will go right threw it."
That works well with holographic universe theory (in my above post) if vibration rate = a specific neuron path in the holographic brain. A real brain stores info as the paths between neurons, and it will go in a circle path (vibrate) while you think about something. 2 ideas can interact only if there is a circular path between them (according to the knowledge about brains I received from astral). Thinking about the 2 ideas at the same time will cause a path to be found (usually through other ideas) between them. The point is that astral vibrations work the same way as ideas in a brain.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 19:58:48
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 19:58:48
Try reading/download QUANTUM METAPHYSICS from the download section. It has some interesting things in it that might shed a bit of light.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 20:18:13
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 20:18:13
When I AP I clear my mind of all thoughts, so maybe my mind stops sending messages to my physical body. This would explain a lot...do you think that makes sense?
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 20:39:26
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 20:39:26
All particles are related by something amazing and undefinable:
Quote from QUANTUM METAPHYSICS by Joachim E. Wolf
"...Aspect and his colleagues created two photons from the same quantum event and observed them as they speeded into opposite directions. After they had traveled some distance with the speed of light, the researchers changed the polarization for only one of them. (Polarization is the orientation of the wave that
corresponds to each photon.) As a result, the other photon instantaneously adopted the same polarization, even though the two were far apart. Relativity theory tells us that nothing can travel faster than light."
Not on topic, but interesting...
Quote from QUANTUM METAPHYSICS by Joachim E. Wolf
"...Aspect and his colleagues created two photons from the same quantum event and observed them as they speeded into opposite directions. After they had traveled some distance with the speed of light, the researchers changed the polarization for only one of them. (Polarization is the orientation of the wave that
corresponds to each photon.) As a result, the other photon instantaneously adopted the same polarization, even though the two were far apart. Relativity theory tells us that nothing can travel faster than light."
Not on topic, but interesting...
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tayesin on July 24, 2003, 22:44:46
Post by: Tayesin on July 24, 2003, 22:44:46
Hi again.
Paul, I call Shadow little brother because I see all people as brothers and sisters, and in a human sense he is much younger than me, so he is very much like a little brother. It is just my way of expressing what I feel for people. It is no different than the native american's way, or the way of so many other cultures. Okay with you?
When words come through me, why should I then have to give the name of the provider to still some uncomfortable notion you have within yourself about it? I do not subscribe to the concept of 'Ascended Masters' as so many see fit to do. That may be no further evolved than the way christians disempower themselves to give all things over to God.
I see us all as Masters, very Great Spirits in our own right. Beings who have existed in so many thousand different worlds before coming here to continue our experiencing in what this system has to offer. So we have ascended many times and chosen to come to new opportunites when they are availabe. And because we have chosen to do so, we forget what we are. No Soul is greater or older than any other, no soul has achieved greater divinity or higher ascension than any other, with the exception of working our way upwards through this particular 'experience system'.
Spiritual evolution does not stop, there is no place that we reach and say, "Hay, I'm there". If you feel the need to have that as a conceptual belief system then that is your choosing, it does not necessarily mean that it is all that there is. It only means that it is what you choose to believe.
So how about you let me get on with sharing the knowledge that we are magnificent, powerfull, and ancient Great Spirits, insted of trying to tie me down to working within your guidelines? And yes, these are all my words.
Love always.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: sargon on July 25, 2003, 00:37:09
Post by: sargon on July 25, 2003, 00:37:09
I see it as a loop, once you get to the top you start at the bottom... then there really isn't a top or a bottom at all, just a loop.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tayesin on July 25, 2003, 01:45:35
Post by: Tayesin on July 25, 2003, 01:45:35
Hi Again.
Paul, you might be surprised to find that even 'Ascended Masters' choose to incarnate here. If they have cut themselves off from the possibility of direct experience by choosing to not incarnate, how much are they missing when even our little world offers more avenues for experience on a daily basis?
We may find that some of the apparently less advanced souls are in actual fact an 'Ascended Master' choosing to take on a particularly difficult incarnation in order to obtain first hand experience, or to do certain things during the upheavals that are almost upon us.
Spiritual evolution is a two way street. From my own work with my higher Self I was to remember that many aeons ago I was a being that was worshipped as a god. And now I am an average human dwelling here and preparing for what is to come. What this illustrates to me is that there are no hard and fast rules in this game we call spiritual evolution.
Yes there are beings helping us and some people refer to them as 'Ascended Masters', yet they are the same as us. Yes they have ascended this world's experiences and now choose to no longer incarnate here. But, that is not the all that there is, the be all and end all. So one day you may say "I have arrived", but to where? After these rounds of incarnations you may choose to go on and start in another realm of existence on another world that 'comes on line'. After all, that's exactly what we did before coming to this world when it 'came on line'.
It's mind boggling isn't it? But we are moths looking at the same light, all seeing the same thing from a different perspective. And we at least have the ability to rise above that light and see what all the rest are seeing.
Love always.
Paul, you might be surprised to find that even 'Ascended Masters' choose to incarnate here. If they have cut themselves off from the possibility of direct experience by choosing to not incarnate, how much are they missing when even our little world offers more avenues for experience on a daily basis?
We may find that some of the apparently less advanced souls are in actual fact an 'Ascended Master' choosing to take on a particularly difficult incarnation in order to obtain first hand experience, or to do certain things during the upheavals that are almost upon us.
Spiritual evolution is a two way street. From my own work with my higher Self I was to remember that many aeons ago I was a being that was worshipped as a god. And now I am an average human dwelling here and preparing for what is to come. What this illustrates to me is that there are no hard and fast rules in this game we call spiritual evolution.
Yes there are beings helping us and some people refer to them as 'Ascended Masters', yet they are the same as us. Yes they have ascended this world's experiences and now choose to no longer incarnate here. But, that is not the all that there is, the be all and end all. So one day you may say "I have arrived", but to where? After these rounds of incarnations you may choose to go on and start in another realm of existence on another world that 'comes on line'. After all, that's exactly what we did before coming to this world when it 'came on line'.
It's mind boggling isn't it? But we are moths looking at the same light, all seeing the same thing from a different perspective. And we at least have the ability to rise above that light and see what all the rest are seeing.
Love always.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: WalkerInTheWoods on July 25, 2003, 04:48:43
Post by: WalkerInTheWoods on July 25, 2003, 04:48:43
quote:
My opinion is: the astral plane is a state of consciousness that allows complete/instant access to all of the brains considerable utilities, basically, a journey through the mind. Obviously (i hate using that word but..) its not a physical place you can go to. I think its impossible to meet people there because any entities or sentient beings you did meet woudl be a product of your own mind.
The Astral is a state of mind. You must align your consciousness with it in order to experience it. But you are always on the astral, it is part of you and you it. No it is not a physical place and you cannot go there physically. But it does exist for it is part of all of us.
You do have a great creative power on the astral, really on all planes but it can be more direct on the astral. You can create other beings you meet. But I think it is possible to meet others as well. I think that we are all connected. On a level we are all one. So if we are all one on some level, then we can connect. I have read many accounts of people meeting on the astral, so it seems possible. I myself have had an experience or two with someone helping me. Though it was brief I think that it was more than just my imagination, it could have been another part of me but more than my imagination.
quote:
If it is a non-physical place that is not individual (different for everybody) then is it possible for an event to shake the whole astral plane? could some powerful being destroy it or entities within it?
I don't know. From experience I would say it is not possible to effect every single thing within the universe at once in such a way, but who knows. We do not have such skill at our current evolution and any being that would be that skilled and evolved would not want to destroy or probably even effect everything.
quote:
If it isnt either of those, perhaps it is a non-physical place that is individually apearing for everyone, yet the content is the same. So everyone is in the same non-physical place, it justs apears different...
Is this not how it is on the physical? You can have a crowd of people all witness the same event, yet you will get a different account from every single person. We all see things different, some more than others. Likewise on the astral, each of us may experience the same thing and enviroment, but we may all perceive it differently. One person may be being attacked by a "neg" while another is being helped by a friendly spirit, yet it can be the same event. Perception is everything.
Tayesin, that is an interesting idea.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 05:56:22
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 05:56:22
Good thoughts guys, you gave me something to think about. By the way: have any of you met creatures in the astral plane that knew things you guys didnt? because if its possible to learn amazing new things that you didnt know before in the astral plane, then the astral plane probably isnt an individual place for everyone. For example: If a astral creature told you how to unlock a safe, or the password on a computer, than that would obviously not be from your own subconscious. But perhaps it couold be. We only remember 1/1000 of what we see anyway, so its definetly possible.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 08:06:28
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 08:06:28
I just reread Quantum Metaphysics...Its quite interesting....
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Nay on July 25, 2003, 09:35:33
Post by: Nay on July 25, 2003, 09:35:33
quote:Hey Pm! Projecting from a lucid dream is quite common. I find it easier than a conscious projection. It may not be a RT projection, but hey..as long as I get OOB...??
If one just wants to have fun then fine, Lucid Dreaming is great. But I recommend people do occasional tests in the astral. You could fly somewhere you've never been and see if it really appears exactly as you saw it while out of body. Just remember to try and focus in the present time line where your physical body is! If it's not what you saw then don't sweat it
Nay.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 09:40:55
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 09:40:55
I like the way you guys arent arguing just disscusing. Im glad I could create such an interesting topic. For a purely scientific view however...QUOTE FROM QUANTUM METAPHYSICS:BY Joachim E. Wolf
"...the Mind-Body dual. It is known as the "psychophysical" problem and has been concisely formulated by the French philosopher and mathematician Rene Descartes in his "Meditations", published in 1641 (20). Descartes observed that the world consists of two basically
different substances: mind and matter. Matter occupies 3-D space, mind does not. He could not explain satisfactorily how these two substances, mind and matter, interact, other than through God's intercession. To this day, scientists are debating this problem. We know that each one of us is one individual. Yet our common sense
cannot tell us how our two different constituent parts, mind and body, function together. This is similar to our inability to visualize the 4-D whole of space and time."
So where are your thoughts, since when you imagine something it isnt in real 3d space? where is it?!?[?] Its quiet interesting really, and I think somehow all this means that there is a "scientific" explanation. I beleive that the truth rests in science.
"...the Mind-Body dual. It is known as the "psychophysical" problem and has been concisely formulated by the French philosopher and mathematician Rene Descartes in his "Meditations", published in 1641 (20). Descartes observed that the world consists of two basically
different substances: mind and matter. Matter occupies 3-D space, mind does not. He could not explain satisfactorily how these two substances, mind and matter, interact, other than through God's intercession. To this day, scientists are debating this problem. We know that each one of us is one individual. Yet our common sense
cannot tell us how our two different constituent parts, mind and body, function together. This is similar to our inability to visualize the 4-D whole of space and time."
So where are your thoughts, since when you imagine something it isnt in real 3d space? where is it?!?[?] Its quiet interesting really, and I think somehow all this means that there is a "scientific" explanation. I beleive that the truth rests in science.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: beavis on July 25, 2003, 09:50:12
Post by: beavis on July 25, 2003, 09:50:12
pmlonline "I remember when I was a little baby how I would so easily see a bear floating above me. A newborn needs to learn what's their imagination and what's not."
How do you know you didnt cause a bear to float above you? You can do it after you die, and before you're born, so why not a short time after?
How do you know you didnt cause a bear to float above you? You can do it after you die, and before you're born, so why not a short time after?
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 09:59:22
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 09:59:22
Lets not bag on him because of his childhood anecdotes.... but good point anyway...
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tayesin on July 25, 2003, 10:23:53
Post by: Tayesin on July 25, 2003, 10:23:53
quote:
Originally posted by pmlonline
They're called Avatars and believe me, you'll know if someone's an Avatar! Not too many Souls chose to be an Avatar and they DO NOT mess around while here because it is extreme easy for an Avatar to pick up more physical plane Karma. Jesus and Buddha were Avatars. You and I and Bruce Roberts are NOT avatars!!! [:)]
Best wishes,
Paul
Paul, can you tell me how I will know an Avatar when I meet one? Is it the powerful energy that I will feel coming from them? Is it the light color around them? Or is it their actions as they grow and experience in a human condition and possibly shine a little brighter than the rest?
Why do they not mess around? Aren't they humans born into this world exactly like the rest of us? So don't they then have to grow as a human while 'recovering' the skills needed to fulfil their tasks?
Pick up more physical plane Karma? Does cause and effect cease to exist when one is not in the world? Free will still exists for us in all manifestations of existence doesn't it? Surely a little mud on the Avatars feet wouldn't be any grave problem?
Isn't the word Avatar a human concept from ancient eastern religions? So that is another belief system, isn't it? Jesus and Buddha were Human Beings weren't they? They were beings incarnating directly from the overself/higher self weren't they?
How do you know you are not an Avatar? Have you remembered exactly what you are? Is what you are something less than an incarnated higher self? What you have experienced is all yours isn't it? What you believe is all your isn't it, or is it someone else's belief system that you have learned?
Paul I am not saying you are wrong. What you believe is very valid as it has been affirmed by your experiences. All I am pressing you for is to say, "look outside your box." You will work right up to the edge of the box and one day you will pass through it into a bigger box, and then a bigger box, etc. Every person born to this world does exactly that in their own good time, unless we choose not to. LOL
Love always.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: WalkerInTheWoods on July 25, 2003, 11:23:04
Post by: WalkerInTheWoods on July 25, 2003, 11:23:04
quote:
Its quiet interesting really, and I think somehow all this means that there is a "scientific" explanation. I beleive that the truth rests in science.
I believe that there is nothing supernatural. Supernatural, magic, miracles, etc are words used to describe something that we do not know how they work. All things follow the laws of nature (or universe or whatever you want to call it). The problem is, we do not know all the laws and all the facts. So yes I believe that everything has a "scientific" explanation as well. Instead of staring in awe and starting to worship or fear something that people do not understand they should study it and learn its true nature, for that will add to the overall understanding of the Universe.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 12:29:58
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 12:29:58
What really annoys me is whenever something that cant immediately be explained is "an act of god" or an "otherworldy phenom". If people just tried to find a scientific explanation first I'd be happy.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tisha on July 25, 2003, 14:33:58
Post by: Tisha on July 25, 2003, 14:33:58
Folks, I'll try to answer Shadowatcher's question based upon personal experience. When I OBE, I usually am extremely curious, and I tend to come back with some MAJOR lessons. Here's one of them. It was such a biggie that I actually learned it twice in one night; i.e., during two OBEs in rapid succession.
Lesson: There is an EXACT replica of the ENTIRE universe inside of you.
This is the only characteristic of the holographic universe you need to understand to give up on the "real" vs. "in your head" debate.
Meaning, it's inner AND outer. So relax!
As for the seemingly infinite classifications we give astral phenomena (guides, Focus 27, M-field, Avatars, Archngels, heaven/hell, Ascended Masters, spirit animals, greys, fairies, yadayadayada), these are all bits and pieces of BELIEF SYSTEMS. We all need belief systems to feel organized and safe . . . especially in the Last Frontier of the Astral! However, beware of presenting belief systems to other people as facts. Best to qualify your statements with things like "I believe" or "In my religion we . . ." or "Many people think . . ." and so on. Not that anyone here has sinned TOO much in this regard, I just felt the need to throw out the advice to the world up front, because this is an interesting thread, and everyone is doing pretty good - - - I'd like to see more!
For those of you who are REALLY into understanding the nature of the Astral, studying Quantum Physics is a good start. So is the study of paradox!!! There is a Quantum Physics forum on Astralpulse, I encourage all who are interested to visit.
Lesson: There is an EXACT replica of the ENTIRE universe inside of you.
This is the only characteristic of the holographic universe you need to understand to give up on the "real" vs. "in your head" debate.
Meaning, it's inner AND outer. So relax!
As for the seemingly infinite classifications we give astral phenomena (guides, Focus 27, M-field, Avatars, Archngels, heaven/hell, Ascended Masters, spirit animals, greys, fairies, yadayadayada), these are all bits and pieces of BELIEF SYSTEMS. We all need belief systems to feel organized and safe . . . especially in the Last Frontier of the Astral! However, beware of presenting belief systems to other people as facts. Best to qualify your statements with things like "I believe" or "In my religion we . . ." or "Many people think . . ." and so on. Not that anyone here has sinned TOO much in this regard, I just felt the need to throw out the advice to the world up front, because this is an interesting thread, and everyone is doing pretty good - - - I'd like to see more!
For those of you who are REALLY into understanding the nature of the Astral, studying Quantum Physics is a good start. So is the study of paradox!!! There is a Quantum Physics forum on Astralpulse, I encourage all who are interested to visit.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 15:28:10
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 15:28:10
good thoughts [:)]
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 17:10:49
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 17:10:49
Does anyone else agree that the astral plane is simply a representation of the subconsious?
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tisha on July 25, 2003, 17:42:58
Post by: Tisha on July 25, 2003, 17:42:58
quote:
Does anyone else agree that the astral plane is simply a representation of the subconsious?
I rather think it's the other way around[;)]
And as to the 33 universal laws . . . are you sure it's not 33 and a third? Thirty nine? Maybe the "master" missed a few. Can we settle on:
"There appear to be several universal laws that seem unchangeable and absolute. Enlightened individuals have noticed thirty-three of them."
Ok, I'll buy it.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 18:39:37
Post by: shadowatcher on July 25, 2003, 18:39:37
I believe in science. Mainly the fact that all OBEs and ETC can be explained by scientific laws, either existing ones or ones that need to be created. Did you read the intro to this forum? anyhoo, human beings only remember a very small portion of what they see hear and touch. So doesnt it make sense that if you could get instant access to your subconscious you would have access to every thing you didnt remember? it does, and thats what I think an OBE is.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tayesin on July 25, 2003, 20:36:34
Post by: Tayesin on July 25, 2003, 20:36:34
Hi People. Sorry for interuppting here. But, HAY PAUL! Your not gunna just drop our discussion like that again are you? I mean, geez mate, that would be twice now we have been having an intense discussion and you dropped it when it got hard. Come on mate, if it pushes your buttons (and mine too)then ask yourself why?
When I first started here at the pulse you rode me fairly hard, but folded when it came to the guts of the matter. So now, in your own words, "I asked you questions and you did not even answer them."
Integrity my friend!
And now on a different note. Tisha, you seem to have an immense ability to understand the bigger picture in a calm way. I find that exciting, oops there goes my calm. LOL
Love always.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tayesin on July 26, 2003, 21:39:51
Post by: Tayesin on July 26, 2003, 21:39:51
quote:
Originally posted by pmlonline
Sorry but get the clue; i.e., there comes a time when people have to agree to disagree. I think that in your mind you would love to believe that "it got hard." What got hard Tayesin? You ended the conversation by blasting with a post that was nothing but question after question. That's not a conversation.
If you want a conversation Tayesin then learn to have one.
Let me know when you're ready,
.....
Paul
Paul, confrontational? I asked all those questions because your last post before it was a sweeping generalized statement, made as if that was the only answer there could be to what we had been discussing. I had come to expect more in your well thought out responses. So, I wanted you to answer them using the the knowledge you have from your belief system. Is there something wrong with that?
Agreeing to disagree is fine if you don't want to push your boundaries. I will respect that if it is your choice, but at least tell me so.
[/quote]
As far as Integrity Tayesin, you might want to get your stories straight before writing a book. Didn't you post that you've never projected into an inanimate object. And didn't you email me numerous pages in the book you're writing on how you projected into the rocky earth?
[/quote]
It's funny how when you asked for information from me in an e-mail, I was warned that you would try to use it in the forum. Should have listened shouldn't I? Thank you for letting me have that lesson.
Not the rocky Earth Paul, we were out of body in an astral realm. You have jumped to conclusions here my friend.
If you are feeling confronted Paul, there is a reason for that inside. We are both helping each other here with our deeply entertaining conversations. I for one would not like to stop having them, I also like to think that when we reach a common ground, we will see that our two different ways will blend more harmoniously.
[/qoute]
I saw a person who was going to quit Astral Pulse so I interjected to offer some advice to you.
[/quote]
Paul, when I left, you wrote a post saying that I had written some very negative posts. That I had made false accusations and assertions. I responded to that post of yours and spent the time checking up on your accusations. If you remember, I answered all of them politely and honestly. You did not respond to the last one on that subject!
[/quote]
The reason I didn't reply to you previous post was because asked 20 QUESTIONS and 5 statements! Respectfully, people will usually shy away from that. That given in addition to the fact that you were already uneasy with me.
Honestly, let's get along co'z I'm not touching this subject with you again. OK?
[/quote]
Paul, my uneasiness with you is because I see your telling me what you believe in such a way to have it sound like the only possible way. We are grown adults Paul, we are both intelligent people, so why would we shy away from these questions? Can we not move through this together and both acknowledge that we are learning from this.
I would love to get along Paul, I already thought we were working on that. It would be a shame to drop this subject we were on, we were both so close to breaking through something there.
The last time I had these types of conversations was with another guy named Paul too. He had been taught by his mother to be a very clear medium. She was well respected over the years in her work. Yet he too had the concept that their's was the only way. He even told me that his Guidance said they had never heard of the Kundalini! We continued the discussions until one night at the research group he had a breakthrough. He courageously said, "I absolutely refuse to believe that what you say could be true." Brave wasn't he? Unfortunately he also decided to call it quits just when he could take the next step to moving outside the taught belief system.
So this long winded post comes to a close.
Love always.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Greytraveller on July 29, 2003, 21:16:26
Post by: Greytraveller on July 29, 2003, 21:16:26
Quote by ShadowCatcher
>>>>>> quote:
Does anyone else agree that the astral plane is simply a representation of the subconsious? <<<<<
Reply by Tisha
>>>>>> I rather think it's the other way around<<<<
Right on Tisha !! [:D]
The astral plane(s) is Far more than just a person's subconscious. The fact that some people believe that Everything they see and do on the astral plane(s) is solely a product of their own mind shows just how little they actually know about the astral.
My personal belief is that the astral plane(s) is a higher dimension than the 4th dimension. The 4th dimension is the mind/consciousness/time extension of the 4 dimensional space-time holographic universe. The 4th dimension is the ethereal plane/RTZ/Local I.
So the astral plane(s) could be the 5th dimension. Or the 5th and 6th dimensions. Maybe the 8th dimension -If dimensions truly only exist as described in algebraic mathematical terms and all else is a product of individual perception[?] Anyways the point is that the astral plane(s) are currently above our ability to fully comprehend and can not be explained away as a product of personal subconscousness. [:O][8D]
>>>>>> quote:
Does anyone else agree that the astral plane is simply a representation of the subconsious? <<<<<
Reply by Tisha
>>>>>> I rather think it's the other way around<<<<
Right on Tisha !! [:D]
The astral plane(s) is Far more than just a person's subconscious. The fact that some people believe that Everything they see and do on the astral plane(s) is solely a product of their own mind shows just how little they actually know about the astral.
My personal belief is that the astral plane(s) is a higher dimension than the 4th dimension. The 4th dimension is the mind/consciousness/time extension of the 4 dimensional space-time holographic universe. The 4th dimension is the ethereal plane/RTZ/Local I.
So the astral plane(s) could be the 5th dimension. Or the 5th and 6th dimensions. Maybe the 8th dimension -If dimensions truly only exist as described in algebraic mathematical terms and all else is a product of individual perception[?] Anyways the point is that the astral plane(s) are currently above our ability to fully comprehend and can not be explained away as a product of personal subconscousness. [:O][8D]
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on August 12, 2003, 17:54:49
Post by: shadowatcher on August 12, 2003, 17:54:49
Right now lots of people are questioning the astral plane... Its nature and composition. Before you create a new topic, Read over the this Topic, lots of people gave great opinions here. LETS NOT WASTE ASTRAL PULSE FORUM SPACE BY CREATING TONS OF TOPICS!
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tombo on August 13, 2003, 04:07:20
Post by: Tombo on August 13, 2003, 04:07:20
To pmlonline and tayesin: Your conversation is pretty entertaining to read. I don't wanna offend you guys but I don't believe you are really as spiritual advanced as you pretend. I mean you guys seem not even to be able to have a fair conversation! so what are all your journeys for then?
I don't wanna give my own opinion on the subject cause I don't have one and thats maybe an advantage.....
But Paul giving statements like there are 33 laws and 7 Planes and so on reminds my of a sect. I mean how can you know for sure, are you God?
Also saying Buddha and Jesus were avatars sounds a little strange to me as well. From where do you know that? did you ever meet? I'm kind of a Buddist myself and the core of Buddhas teaching is that he was a normal human beeing like everybody else and that everybody can reach in this life what he did (end of suffering). So I feel kind of irritated by your statements.
Sorry but thats my honest opinion, All the best Tom
I don't wanna give my own opinion on the subject cause I don't have one and thats maybe an advantage.....
But Paul giving statements like there are 33 laws and 7 Planes and so on reminds my of a sect. I mean how can you know for sure, are you God?
Also saying Buddha and Jesus were avatars sounds a little strange to me as well. From where do you know that? did you ever meet? I'm kind of a Buddist myself and the core of Buddhas teaching is that he was a normal human beeing like everybody else and that everybody can reach in this life what he did (end of suffering). So I feel kind of irritated by your statements.
Sorry but thats my honest opinion, All the best Tom
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Lasher on August 13, 2003, 16:35:17
Post by: Lasher on August 13, 2003, 16:35:17
quote:
Originally posted by shadowatcher
I believe in science. Mainly the fact that all OBEs and ETC can be explained by scientific laws, either existing ones or ones that need to be created. Did you read the intro to this forum? anyhoo, human beings only remember a very small portion of what they see hear and touch. So doesnt it make sense that if you could get instant access to your subconscious you would have access to every thing you didnt remember? it does, and thats what I think an OBE is.
Hi Shadowcatcher,
Here is my two cents. I have yet to remember an OBE or even a lucid dream, so take it for what it is worth.
Science is reliable but slow. It could be that science will take thousands of years before it can accurately describe the astral or even the unconscious mind.
Many people at Astral Pulse don't seem to want to wait around for that to happen. They have seen enough to conduct their own experiments. That does not mean that we have to believe that there is an astral dimension beyond ourselves, just because they say it is so.
But, if we reject the notion of a shared astral reality until such time as it is scientifically proven to us, then we may be missing out on something very valuable.
As for me, I won't say that I unreservedly believe in the worlds described by OBers.
But I will suspend my disbelief, to avoid erecting the very mental barriers which could prevent me from having the experience that would prove it to me.
It's far more natural for people to think, "I'll believe it when I see it". But what if the only way to ever see it is to at least suspend your disbelief?
If you were to do this, and then had an astral experience which you were able to verify in your waking life, it might give you more proof than you will ever get from science in our lifetime.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
Take Care!
Lasher
Lasher
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on August 15, 2003, 07:30:52
Post by: shadowatcher on August 15, 2003, 07:30:52
Lasher, thankyou for your very thoughtfull post. It gave me much to think about. First off: Is science a religion?
Yes. Science is a religion because like all religions, it explains hard-to-explain phenomenon. Whether its Zeus that creates thunder storms, or whether its particles rubbing together that creates thunder storms, they will still be thunder storms. Electricity was around long before humans could harness it. When we give things scientific names, we defy their mystery. We delude ourselves of their true nature and spirit. We should never lose our amazement with nature, and things untouched by man.
Yes. Science is a religion because like all religions, it explains hard-to-explain phenomenon. Whether its Zeus that creates thunder storms, or whether its particles rubbing together that creates thunder storms, they will still be thunder storms. Electricity was around long before humans could harness it. When we give things scientific names, we defy their mystery. We delude ourselves of their true nature and spirit. We should never lose our amazement with nature, and things untouched by man.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on August 15, 2003, 08:41:45
Post by: shadowatcher on August 15, 2003, 08:41:45
What if you believe that science CAN (hypothetically) explain everything, we are just waiting for the right people, with the right formulas, to be born. So sometime in the infinite future, everything will be explained. For now, I can live with the "unexplained" I can accept miracles and "acts of god". I believe they WILL someday be explained. Just not right now. Thanks for feedback.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on August 16, 2003, 23:35:38
Post by: shadowatcher on August 16, 2003, 23:35:38
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tombo on August 17, 2003, 12:28:33
Post by: Tombo on August 17, 2003, 12:28:33
I just wanna add a thought to your discussion whether it'll ever be possible for science to explain everything or not.
What if it's not possible to apprehend everything on this plane (which is my believe or better which is my experience)?
For example: I once had a "dream" were I perceived colors that I couldn't comprehend on this plane, I knew it that when I'll wake up I'll only remember the "feel" of the colors but that I will be impossible to convert the colors into this plane. Like we could never understand a 3D object if we'd live in a 2D world.
Do you understand what I mean! weird isn't it?
What if it's not possible to apprehend everything on this plane (which is my believe or better which is my experience)?
For example: I once had a "dream" were I perceived colors that I couldn't comprehend on this plane, I knew it that when I'll wake up I'll only remember the "feel" of the colors but that I will be impossible to convert the colors into this plane. Like we could never understand a 3D object if we'd live in a 2D world.
Do you understand what I mean! weird isn't it?
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on August 17, 2003, 12:51:13
Post by: shadowatcher on August 17, 2003, 12:51:13
yeah, I do understand. Have you ever heard of the idea of Platos Cave?
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Soulfire on August 18, 2003, 00:12:44
Post by: Soulfire on August 18, 2003, 00:12:44
In my perspective, the whole concept of who is a master, etc. is irrelevant and serves only the ego. Two main points:
1) If you believe time is non-binding to the essence of who you are, then your entire experience of all your "lives" technically happens more or less simultaneously. If this is true, then we are all masters and quite possibly demons as well. If you do not believe time is ultimately binding, then you are simultaneously the entirety of all your infinite experiences and states of being in the now...you just may not be consciously aware of it.
2) If we ever truly transcend and/or ascend (or even just have access to) a state of "oneness" with all that is, then you would perceive not only all of your lifetimes as happening simultaneously...but also all the lifetimes of every individual form or manifestation of energy that ever has or will exist. From a higher perspective, you literally ARE the person you are comparing yourself to. Not only that, but you are also individually every single cell that lived in in that person's body in every single lifetime as well as every virus that infected that person, etc. Each of those entities, cells, or even quantum particles have their own individual "lifetime" and unique set of "memories/perceptions" that when perceived from a state of "oneness" are all essentially you.
If you believe in the state of "oneness" then any comparison, judgement, or label you could ever make is ultimately meaningless.
--Soulfire
1) If you believe time is non-binding to the essence of who you are, then your entire experience of all your "lives" technically happens more or less simultaneously. If this is true, then we are all masters and quite possibly demons as well. If you do not believe time is ultimately binding, then you are simultaneously the entirety of all your infinite experiences and states of being in the now...you just may not be consciously aware of it.
2) If we ever truly transcend and/or ascend (or even just have access to) a state of "oneness" with all that is, then you would perceive not only all of your lifetimes as happening simultaneously...but also all the lifetimes of every individual form or manifestation of energy that ever has or will exist. From a higher perspective, you literally ARE the person you are comparing yourself to. Not only that, but you are also individually every single cell that lived in in that person's body in every single lifetime as well as every virus that infected that person, etc. Each of those entities, cells, or even quantum particles have their own individual "lifetime" and unique set of "memories/perceptions" that when perceived from a state of "oneness" are all essentially you.
If you believe in the state of "oneness" then any comparison, judgement, or label you could ever make is ultimately meaningless.
--Soulfire
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: Tombo on August 18, 2003, 07:09:59
Post by: Tombo on August 18, 2003, 07:09:59
@Shadowatcher: No, I never heard of the idea of platos cave. Please clear me up.
@Soulfire: good thoughts!
@Soulfire: good thoughts!
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: veliki grizli on August 18, 2003, 12:34:10
Post by: veliki grizli on August 18, 2003, 12:34:10
What about Kirlian photography?
Some experiments are taken, and they where taking a photo of fertilizated egg , and they saw a young chicken ,but in physical world agg was still only fertilized without any form.
Happenings occure before in Astral world than in physical.
Some experiments are taken, and they where taking a photo of fertilizated egg , and they saw a young chicken ,but in physical world agg was still only fertilized without any form.
Happenings occure before in Astral world than in physical.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on August 18, 2003, 16:56:00
Post by: shadowatcher on August 18, 2003, 16:56:00
The theory of Platos cave is the theory that if a man lives his whole life in cave, with only a tiny pinhole to see out of, that he would die if he was let out of the cave. Why? because he would be bombarded by sights and sounds and the amazing amzingness of life outside the cave. Now, how does this relate to the astral plane? What if we were living our whole lives in the cave of the physical world. What if we are only seeing a tiny fraction of what goes on around us. If we ever actually left "our cave" of the physical world, we would be bombarded by so many sights and sounds we would die.
Title: The Nature of the Astral Plane
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 18:00:26
Post by: shadowatcher on July 24, 2003, 18:00:26
My opinion is: the astral plane is a state of consciousness that allows complete/instant access to all of the brains considerable utilities, basically, a journey through the mind. Obviously (i hate using that word but..) its not a physical place you can go to. I think its impossible to meet people there because any entities or sentient beings you did meet woudl be a product of your own mind.
So, if the astral plane is not as I say, and is not a physical place...what is it? If it is a non-physical place that is not individual (different for everybody) then is it possible for an event to shake the whole astral plane? could some powerful being destroy it or entities within it?
If it isnt either of those, perhaps it is a non-physical place that is individually apearing for everyone, yet the content is the same. So everyone is in the same non-physical place, it justs apears different...
WOW! if you actually read that whole thing, give me any thoughts. [|)]
So, if the astral plane is not as I say, and is not a physical place...what is it? If it is a non-physical place that is not individual (different for everybody) then is it possible for an event to shake the whole astral plane? could some powerful being destroy it or entities within it?
If it isnt either of those, perhaps it is a non-physical place that is individually apearing for everyone, yet the content is the same. So everyone is in the same non-physical place, it justs apears different...
WOW! if you actually read that whole thing, give me any thoughts. [|)]