Hello all
I've been mulling over the RTZ OBE for a while now and would love to hear your experiences and views with it. I'm interested in how you view the physical world, and whether this carries over to the RTZ world.
It's the anomalies that we experience that intrigue me. Why are windows in the wrong place and pieces of furniture totally missing?
I can start the discussion by saying that I'm not very observant in my physical life, and wouldn't necessarily know what is in my room right now if you asked me to close my eyes and describe it to you. However, I would probably get the window and door in the right place. :lol:
I remember an experience once where there was something in the hall that looked like a mobile phone on the table. I had passed the table and realised that the mobile phone thing shouldn't have been on the table, as it wasn't in physical reality. When I turned around to check out what it actually was, it wasn't there anymore. :shock:
Was that a case of my conscious being somewhat dull in the first place and creating the article and then when my conscious brightened and I knew it shouldn't be there, I somehow removed it from the table? Or was it a pure astral article and when I wasn't being logical and rational I was able to see it, however when those physical barriers came in, I was no longer able to see into the astral, and only saw what I remembered from the physical world?
What are your experiences and thoughts on this rather moot subject?
Sarah
This is not an answer, just another question- when I was young and had no knowledge of what an OBE was, I projected, and everything always looked normal- in fact it was hard to tell it from a flying dream, except that when I tried to turn on the light it wouldn't work, and when I finally went through a wall the idea of the OBE hit home (went ding! in my brain.) But now as an adult and having read about these anomalies, I constantly either have astral projections (not RTZ's, and not too long, and full of these reality fluctuations.) I wonder how much influence expectation has on this phenomenon..
My thought is, without a body to interpret the RTZ, our minds do the next best approximation. So things can looked warped, be missing, in the wrong place, etc. It doesn't explain things completely ... but how much of reality is the way it is because of our physical? Maybe the RTZ can't accurately even be translated to what we're used to. It would be an interesting experiment to focus intent or try an affirmation to see the RTZ as it actually is (if these is even possible ... who knows how much of reality is dependent on the observer ... )
Ive heard this a lot , that light switches never work in dreams, but not too long ago i was dreaming, i was in my room in the dream and it was dark, i turned on the light switch and it didn't work the first 3 times or so, i was like what is wrong with this damn thing, then i flipped it again and the light turned on i was like oh there we go, i walked to the bathroom and turned on a light switch and it worked the first time i tried it, so i obviously thought i was awake after this......but waking up about 10 minutes later i remembered the light switches working in the dream and remembered all the times Ive heard that light switches never work in dreams.......well just thought id bring it up
Hi Sarah,
Are you sure it was RTZ and not an F2 copy? I only ask as I had something a bit similar last week, found myself at the end of the bed, looking at where I should have been, only to find my body wasn't there. Also my bedside light was on, but I know it was pitch black in waking life.
:)
Steve
I think a big part of reality fluctuations are due to being fixated on physical perception.
You may be under the impression that what you see is simply the light that enters your eyes after it has been reflected by a surface...
But the truth is, that is only what is seen on a physical level. By the time the raw sensory information makes it to your brain, all kinds of alterations have been made that allow you to interpret what you are seeing. This is the reason TV, for example, can be watched without much effort -- you do not have to cut up the shapes you see into objects, to figure out what is people, what is object, etc..
In your mind, everything you see around you is "mapped" in the sense that ideas are associated to patterns. When you see a new object you will often need to look at it for a few moments just to memorize its shape and put it in your "database."
When you are in the astral, there are no photosensitive organs. You are adapting reality to your human perceptions. In other words, what you are seeing is not objective, material reality but ideas, thoughtforms.
Because of this, you are not just perceiving physical reality, you are only perceiving your idea of it. If you were to try and take in objective perceptions, you would be overwhelmed with information -- you would see each and every atom and its composing parts, without any way to comprehend what you are seeing.
This is also why dream memories are so weird... For example, you may remember seeing someone, but the fact that they didn't have a face did not hold any importance, what you perceived was the idea of their presence, therefore you interpreted it as "someone" but in fact, you did not go through the steps of looking, "decoding" and interpreting, the interpretation came directly without a need for you to consciously induce it.
So when you see rooms and furniture out of place, you are not always seeing something that you created subconsciously -- you are seeing reality, but it is not mapped properly.
My take on it is this, since your not actually viewing with your physical eyes, but rather your consciousness, your consciousness does it's best to recreate the RTZ or lowest plane. I notice that if I have a RTZ projection somewhere other than my home, I will see all manner of weird things because my brain is not familiar enough with it's surroundings to reconstruct them accurately.
In one of Monroe's books, I got the impression that he actually saw what was around him. In one instance, he was performing an experiment and noticed a man who he accurately described to the lab tech. As it turned out, it was her boyfriend or husband. Now that I can't explain. Maybe Monroe had a special gift.
It seems most of the accounts I read about on this forum detail the RTZ as being a little out of sorts with the physical.
I think I basically said what kiwibonga said, only much simpler. :lol:
Kiwibonga-
I really like your explanation. It makes a lot of sense. Do you think that there is something that a person can do to avoid these fluctuations?
Maybe this is where all preconcieved notions of eye sight needs to be dropped, and a new way of "seeing" developed.
could the explanation be that there is no RTZ? :)
I mean, how many of you had OBE where everything was same like physical reality, like you are ghost which is separated from body? I don't think that anyone had experience like this, so in my opinion there is no RTZ, but it is another astral projection or F2 or LD or whatever you wanna call it :)
Yea, kiwibonga did a nice job of explaining it!
I read somewhere that one of the reasons we take a body in the physical is so we can accumulate memories. The purpose being, so when we die we can construct our environment according to what memories we have accumulated during our stay on Earth. I also read that these memories are not stored in our brain, but in a matrix of sorts. This theory was actually proved with lab rats. The lab rats were trained to maneuver a maze to obtain their food. After their training period was over, the memory portion of their brain was removed. Much to the astonishment of the scientists, the rats were still able to remember how to obtain the food. The scientists actually went so far as to remove most of the rat's brain and they still found the food without any difficulty.
I don't know if this proves anything but it does make you wonder about where memories are stored and why some can access/recall better than others. Perhaps the folks with the best recall have the most accurate RTZ OBE's?
I think "creating your own reality" (which includes crafting means of perception) happens naturally when we are away from the physical. This is an ability that we all possess, but it is not something that we are used to.
Very few people are successful at quieting the mind -- it takes a lot of daily practice with meditation. This remains true out of body, except the mind's constant chatter is not limited to voices in your head and furtive images, it can manifest itself around you. This is something we call subconscious pollution most often.
Seth mentions this in Seth Speaks, if anyone's read it -- when we awake to our "true" senses, we need some time for adaptation, to really gauge our (infinite) abilities and fully control our creative powers.
I haven't had enough experiences to test it, but I have a method planned out. There was something interesting in the Astral Pulse newsletter recently, something about "cancelling." When you are meditating and you start hearing "monkey chatter," identify each unwanted thought and think "cancel" or "stop" to erase it.
Out of body, you should be able to know the difference between things that are created by you and things that are actual physical matter. Whenever you see something that seems out of place, use a "cancel word" which means "disappear if you are my subconscious creation" ; learn to clear up your thoughtforms, and as you practice this, you will automatically avoid fluctuations whenever your intent is to observe the RTZ.
Simply stating "I only want to perceive the physical" could work as well... Remember, "ask and you shall receive!"
Quote from: SelskiIt's the anomalies that we experience that intrigue me. Why are windows in the wrong place and pieces of furniture totally missing?
Practice, practice, practice. One can't expect a beginner to run a marathon after a few dozen tries. One can't expect to become a decent singer after practicing a few dozen times. Similarly, one cannot expect personal proof of the projection of the Etheric body from just a few dozen projections.
There is a very gifted projector named Jerry Gross. He's said that on average one could expect such expectations after 5 years of solid projections. So if you project at least a few times per week then it usually takes 5 solid years of that before you could expect to project anywhere on Earth in Etheric projection and accurately download that to your physical body. When most people project, it does not mean they are not accurately downloading the information to physical, but it simply means that a lot of the time the information gets disturbed and modified. In fact, a beginner could project to a place they have never been in the physical, and if they look around and analyze the room in their Etheric body and afterwards visit that place in the physical, they could get a certain percentage correct.
So what Jerry is saying, with practice you can get it every time, and I agree.
God bless,
Inward
yet another post by Kiwibonga that I find interesting... He really hits my beliefs nail on the head when he spoke about percieving reality Out-of-Body ... thats a good way to put it. I too have had a few light switches not work for me in my dreams as well and it was even during a projection that I call one of my "proven" projections... right around the time I got to my "working but non-working" lightswitch at the time , I heard the voices of my nieces playing down the hall and I realized that I didnt know they should have been coming down this weekend. The room was an unnatural golden/orange glow and it was a way i've never seen my room (7:50 am .. Im never awake that early) so when I ended the OBE willingly all that I've seen and heard was true perfectly. It was amazing and it just goes to show you that even though I had reality fluctuations .. I still proved something I wouldnt have normally known without being awake at the time or whatever... so that should be an interesting read for a lot of people now that I think about it eh ?? Should illeviate a few mental "blocks" some people might have as well.. just from me realizing it kinda helps me to alleviate my own block that even though reality fluctuations are occuring out-of-body I shouldnt end my experience thinking "oh crap i'm in the alice and wonderland effect again" .
hope this was an eye opener to someone :) Peace!
Maybe related to how our minds focus on one possibility/location of an object, when really there are many. In the physical, we just think of it as being in one place, so it is always there. But, in the astral, maybe how things move, disappear, appear randomly is just showing the different possibilities, and we aren't always choosing just one.
?
There is no such thing as a real time zone, since time and space are both illusions that are agreed upon as being real, the physical word is just a mirror of your mind.
i think there is such thing as an RTZ obe but i wont go into details
Quotethe physical word is just a mirror of your mind.
So anybody mind is the same? :)
I think that physical reality is our contact with this universal consciousness :)
This world is the 3 dimensional part of what Einstein called the 4 dimensional space-time continuum. RTZ projections place the OOB person in the 4th dimension. The 4th dimension transcends the 3 physical dimensions. Because humans mostly relie on their 5 physical (3 dimensional) senses they are usually unaware of this transcendent dimension. Simple so far.
Now here is my theory on why RTZ projections often do not correspond exactly with known physical locations. Einstein left out consciousness as a constituent of the universe. In my view the universe is a 4 dimensional space-time holographic matrix where consciousness and energy and matter all interact in a very comple tensor field. Since physical objects have energy (or an energy field) about them any person who is OOB in an RTZ projection (I call it an ethereal projection) may or may not correctly perceive the 4 dimensional energy/energy field as a 3 dimensional physical object.
Remember that perceptions can be faulty even in the best of times. During an OBE perceptions can become distorted, hazy of warped. And there could be other factors involved. For example electrical equipment might be perceived as energy, or light or even a different type of electrical device (such as a tv appearing as a CD player).
Reality is objective (imoa) and human perception - because it can never completely comprehend all of reality, only selected bits of it, is subjective. So it is the OOB person's perceptions that are mistakenly perceiving the object as something else. Or maybe the OOB person does not perceive a physical item at all. That is the reason for confusing RTZ projections.
Quote from: GreytravellerThis world is the 3 dimensional part of what Einstein called the 4 dimensional space-time continuum. RTZ projections place the OOB person in the 4th dimension. The 4th dimension transcends the 3 physical dimensions. Because humans mostly relie on their 5 physical (3 dimensional) senses they are usually unaware of this transcendent dimension. Simple so far.
Now here is my theory on why RTZ projections often do not correspond exactly with known physical locations. Einstein left out consciousness as a constituent of the universe. In my view the universe is a 4 dimensional space-time holographic matrix where consciousness and energy and matter all interact in a very comple tensor field. Since physical objects have energy (or an energy field) about them any person who is OOB in an RTZ projection (I call it an ethereal projection) may or may not correctly perceive the 4 dimensional energy/energy field as a 3 dimensional physical object.
Remember that perceptions can be faulty even in the best of times. During an OBE perceptions can become distorted, hazy of warped. And there could be other factors involved. For example electrical equipment might be perceived as energy, or light or even a different type of electrical device (such as a tv appearing as a CD player).
Reality is objective (imoa) and human perception - because it can never completely comprehend all of reality, only selected bits of it, is subjective. So it is the OOB person's perceptions that are mistakenly perceiving the object as something else. Or maybe the OOB person does not perceive a physical item at all. That is the reason for confusing RTZ projections.
wow, very nicely put.
Quote from: manuelThere is no such thing as a real time zone, since time and space are both illusions that are agreed upon as being real, the physical word is just a mirror of your mind.
I think manuel is on to something. What if we take this one step further that what we call the physical world is a group collective experience and that a higher part of ourselves binds the universe in totality. :grin:
Inward
Just because reality rhymes with objectivity doesn't mean they are related.
A lot of people like manuel here like to barge into threads and say that nothing is real and everything is an illusion... That's because he's stuck in the "scientific" definition of reality, which is too concrete to be accurate.
thinks,
Maybe you could add a poll to see who thinks the RTZ is real or not. It could provide at a glance how the majority feels, even for those who don't want to post.
BTW, a very good thread! Lot's of good ideas out there.
Quote from: kiwibongaJust because reality rhymes with objectivity doesn't mean they are related.
A lot of people like manuel here like to barge into threads and say that nothing is real and everything is an illusion... That's because he's stuck in the "scientific" definition of reality, which is too concrete to be accurate.
Whos says im stuck in any scientific mode of thinking? get your facts right, I have personaly come to this conclusion from my personal experiences in these matters...I didnt say reality is not real, it is real to how much you think it is real.
Well, you did say there was no such thing as a real time zone...
The real time zone is agreed-upon as a standard, just like the notion of reality altogether.
Some interesting views here. I have found that my experiences tend to fluctuate between an almost perfect replica of the physical room to anomalies all over the place. And this is random. What I mean is, I'm not progressing - for example I'm not getting fewer anomalies in my more recent experiences.
It's totally random.
I think CFTraveler brings up a good point - expectation and suggestion. This does seem to play a part in our experiences. However, from my own personal experience, it isn't consistent. My expectations sometimes come to life, and sometimes are unfounded.
Again, it's totally random.
I kind of like what kiwibonga says, but it's wrapped in too much "belief" packaging for me to really take to heart. No offence, Kiwi!
Inward has a good point - practice practice practice - and perhaps when I've been at this for 30 more years or so, I'll be able to speak with more authority on the subject. But even so, I still think it's personal to each and every one of us - and one of my beliefs so far (hurrah - I have a belief!) is that it's different for everyone.
Therefore, reading about other's experiences is not particularly beneficial, especially when you are on your own OBE path. So the guy you mentioned, whilst he may be honest, good and true, he is to himself. I want to be honest, good and true to myself. I don't want to rely on anyone else's experience to shape mine. Again, this sort of comes back to CFTraveler's experience - how expectation and suggestion can influence. I'm of the opinion that once you (I) have headed down the OBE road and am comfortable with having them semi-regularly, it is best to avoid the books and "gurus". And follow your own path. Just my opinion.
And whilst I can understand Manuel's comment, it isn't very productive to the spirit of the thread. The thread mentions the "RTZ" as a place/focus/whatever that we are familiar with and just happen to call the RTZ to qualify what we are talking about. If we go down the "nothing is real" road, we would find discussing anything rather difficult. We need terminology to communicate. And the "real" time zone is quite apt because it is close to what we call "reality" (regardless of whether reality is real or not - it is a given that we understand and helps us communicate).
Are you with me? :lol:
Sarah
In my own experience, while out of body, the less I thought about what was around me, the more accurate it appeared to look (and sharp but usually black & white).
Again I stress the importance of not placing too much importance on either 3 dimensional physical senses or any one's own " higher" senses during an OBE. Perceptions are not always accurate and therefore are subjective.
The OBE researcher Robert Crookall noted that many RTZ/here-now/ethereal OBEs involved very confusing and vague perceptions while a person was in close proximity to his or her physical body. People who were OOB in this state often reported a dense mist or fog and the inability to accuratey perceive their (physical) surroundings. Crookall called this state the 'body-veil' state of consciousness.
I suspect something similar (if not identical) is taking place during RTZ projections. Perhaps a persons "higher" OOB perceptions are interacting with, and being distorted by, their nearby physical body's energy field. Or perhaps various thought forms or non sentient energy fields manifest as objects in a familiar RTZ location. :question: :idea: That might make sense because many people have reported being able to create their own environment while being out of body.
Hi,
I wanted to add my own perspective / spice.
It's true that we have our unique experience and it may take some people a few years to become advance while others may take decades. I usually throw in the typical 5 years of solid obe experience before the average person begins to get past the illusions and such. So at 3 obe's per week, five years comes to 780 obe's. I recall while in high school how I wanted to know what the average was. While going to numerous astral projection seminars there were other people who also wanted to know. I have no idea if 5 years is the correct average, but that's what they say. Now if you only get 1 obe per week then that might not count at all. For example, if you play tennis 40 hours per week then perhaps in 10 years you could be a professional. So that's 20800 hours. Yet that does not mean you'll become a professional if you put in 20800 hours of tennis in say 40 years.
Personally I'm all for help and advice. Hey, the universe is infinitely old, so surely there are and always has been those far more advanced capable of seeing my charkas and present state of being and I'm not talking about the fakes in India, no offense to anyone. :-) If I break my arm, I'm going to seek a doctors help, lol. I'm not going to tread the path alone and not allow anyone to influence my reality. I want to be open minded. If I want to become a doctor, then I go school and seek the help of others who have treaded the path. Yet I still become my own unique person, not a copy of my teacher.
Sorry, I just find it odd how so many people are appalled by a spiritual teacher. Perhaps it is due to so many fakes and frauds in the world. How sad because a real teacher can save one from a world of pain and time. For example, the last thing one wants is to experience unnatural kundalini pain because that's a whole knew type of pain that makes you want to die!
Here's a little test to experience just a smidgen of perhaps a new type of pain. I call it panic attack pain, but it's nothing compared to improperly developed kundalini pain. Now do this at your own risk and seek your doctors' advice. Hold your breath and wait until you start involuntarily gulping for air. It will kind of be like hiccups, but your mouth will remain closed. After several of these gasping gulps with your mouth remaining closed, you should begin to feel an instant dreadful cold chill in spine and soon enough the panic attacks will hit you. This might not work on everyone though. Now multiply that times a thousand, but then you will not be able to open your mouth and make the pain go away.
Folks, that's what happens when you seek the path with help and no care in the world. When you get older you begin to think more about pain. All types of pain, but physical pain in nothing in comparison. There have been too many nightmare reports of badly developed energy system / kundalini. They say physical pain is dreadful, emotional pain is a killer, and mental pain is out of this world. Kundalini pain is a road to hell. :twisted:
So in good conscience I can't recommend any path alone without some guidance. Help from teachers is good. Big brothers are good. Friends are good. Just stay away from the fakes.
Inward :smile:
In all fairness, I should say that pain promotes growth, but all in moderation and balance, right?
Inward
QuoteSo at 3 obe's per week, five years comes to 780 obe's.
Just how does one have 3 OBE's per week?
It's not that I think it's impossible, I just don't understand how 3 OBEs per week is natural for one person, and to another 3 a year is a godsend. There has to be a reason why.
QuoteSo in good conscience I can't recommend any path alone without some guidance. Help from teachers is good. Big brothers are good. Friends are good. Just stay away from the fakes.
How do you propose we tell the difference? Demand proof?
QuoteIt's the anomalies that we experience that intrigue me. Why are windows in the wrong place and pieces of furniture totally missing?
I think that we mirror the view , the etheric double is not an exact replica , and some things become invisible or have not become visible yet because of the energy attached to them .
Usually what people call here RTZ OBEs are "fake." After the first couple of "real" RTZ OBE the root of the OBE state naturally shifts "upward, " retracts further from the here and now to lessen the shock that "etheric projections" exert on the organism.
So what is a "real" and what is a "fake" RTZ OBE? Both experience use the same interpretating system and pictures from the available (waking state bounded) memory to represent what is perceived. Similarly, in both case perception is composed from "internal" and "external" components, that is, representing the state of the total self and the external world (physical or "non-physical") at the same time.
The difference is that in a "real" RTZ OBE you access external information via a dens energy field that interacts with objects of the physical world. If you have a "real" RTZ OBE your movement and perception is pretty chaotic and high tension power lines show up all the time. This energy field 'decondensates' in the magnetosphere but keep its coherence during a "fake" RTZ OBE.
In a "fake" RTZ OBE you perceive the "low astral," or more precisely a specific region of it what I call "landing unit." This is projected around yourself to protect you from the "real astral" (sort of an enormous 3D space).
This shield is partly constructed by your expectations based on the act of separation (somatosensory detachment is not directly related to the change in perception). This is a bubble of some sort made by yourself and partly shaped or even designed by other beings. By being put in a test you will be trapped in this region as long as you found your way out by solving the test.
So if you found yourself in a weird looking bedroom the best thing you can do is to ask aloud what you can gain from this situation. "Anomalies in your bedroom" are to make you realize your actual state of being and to ask for the reason. The state where false awakenings take place is actually a parallel state. You can always hear a voice if you ask something and plug in the ear of your dream body.
QuoteJust how does one have 3 OBE's per week?
There are people that can project at will... Nothing unusual.. :)
Astral Projection is correct. There are people who can project at will. My friend can project within 10 seconds, every time.
QuoteQuote from: InwardSo in good conscience I can't recommend any path alone without some guidance. Help from teachers is good. Big brothers are good. Friends are good. Just stay away from the fakes.
How do you propose we tell the difference? Demand proof?
The same way you tell any fake. Analyze and test them. Sometimes you can quickly spot a fake. Sometimes it takes time. It's a shame there are so many fakes!
Inward
One way to tell you're in RTZ is testing. While out of body you could go to a place you've never been and study the surroundings. Then go there in your physical body and verify. One problem is that this could filter out a lot of legitimate projections. Even though it might not be RTZ, it could still be a legitimate projection to a parallel universe. The popular Many World Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics teaches there are infinite parallel universes. You could easily project to one of those parallel universes. I think the trick for most is trying to sync in the universe that your physical body is located.
Inward
How can you believe that your friend can project within 10 seconds, every time? I'm not saying that it's impossible (could be though), but to have such acquaintance is very unlikely.
Countless of my "RTZ projections" degenerated into semi lucid dreams about parallel universes. It is strange because I'm certainly not obsessed with the theme. These dreams seem to be too naive to be taken as any kind of evidence. I don't know, probably they are both unconscious expectation and insights into the work of my future creating parts.
A more serious, I mean lucid experience would start with zooming around then missing a target, or by having an autopilot session, allowing myself to be transported like a leaf in wind. Then I would go through a border symbol of some sort (typically a series of enormous walls) and end up in a city / classroom setting. The transition between symbolic landscape and the living scene is always smooth and powerful. I would instantly meet someone telling that I'm asleep and dreaming. To get a clear situation right at the beginning I would prove my claim with a trick. Then we would talk about the differences between our world.
The entire scenario looks too simple to be true, but one thing persists that may add some credibility: we use visual symbols in excessive amounts. It is like projecting brief movies into each other's heads and almost exactly the same feeling I have with other dreamers (without the pronounced heads). Vision is never a concern in these dreams. Its mechanism even tend to escape from my attention just like the unusual way of our communication. Another common elements are lifts and an authorization process at the end of these dreams which I have to pass through before waking up. For some reason I never wake up prematurely from these dreams.
Quote from: upstreamHow can you believe that your friend can project within 10 seconds, every time? I'm not saying that it's impossible (could be though), but to have such acquaintance is very unlikely.
I agree it's a rarity to hear about such people. I think there are a lot of these people, but they more or less choose to watch in the background. I think there's a stage in a persons human emollition where they change in a relatively short period of time. Sort of like evolving to the next level. Anyhow, most people don't really publize such abilities with the exception of a few like Samael Aun Weor. Actually I don't know much about Samael except that his students say Mr. Weor would have to be careful while even walking down the street. He could be walking and suddenly realize he's not in his physical body, lol. I heard that face to face from one of his main students.
Inward
http://www.robertpeterson.org/obebook.html
In this online book, the author deals with the problem of differences between physical reality and the OBE state. He describes seeing some vague mass of astral matter floating in the air, and he couldn't tell what it was. He believes these things occur because the right side of the brain (artistic side) is interpretting the experience, so to engage the left side of his brain, he mentally performed some math problems. As he did, the mass of astral matter became clear, and he was able to tell it was a plant in his room, sitting on the dresser (not floating in the air). Did this work because he believed it would or because the right side of the brain really was interpretting the experience until he changed the fact? Who knows, but I think that the theory should be considered and applied as a solution to the problem.
James
I think it's not only the instrument of brain that needs training to accurately translate the information but also the astral instrument needs to help accurately transmit information to the brain. It makes sense if physical and astral are different realities with unique laws.
Also, the projector eventually learns to not influence the environment. The novice could have easily created the plant without knowing it since astral matter is easily influenced?
Inward
QuoteI think there are a lot of these people, but they more or less choose to watch in the background.
I'm sure this is the case.
3 obes a week is a lot? i used to have obes every night all night for 3 months, i used to count how many obes i had but i just stopped counting after so much, i would rarely have obes while awake tho, sometimes when i would be sitting down i would catch a glimpse of myself from the back of my head, for some reason if i threw up too i would see myself from the back of my head, not sure why throwing up would cause an obe tho