I will talk about astral projection and transhumanism in a moment. I also want to talk about the moral and ethical pros and cons of this technology later.
What is transhumanism?
Transhumanism, abbreviated as H+ or h+, is an international intellectual and cultural movement that affirms the possibility and desirability of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to eliminate aging and to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.
OK it is like a known fact that science is still advancing in many areas including the medical, nano, AI (Artificial Intelligence) sciences despite the economy. We keep on advancing in these fields. It is important to understand that all these things will help us greatly limit human suffering in the future. In fact this technology will not only be available to the rich, but middle class, and even lower class in time. Nano scale and the coming singularity makes it possible to have a big effect for a small price.
Anyway, so what does transhumanism have to do with astral projection. Well quite simply a LOT. The reason why is that is that it is my firm conviction that in the next 50 to 100 years almost anyone will be able to astral project with the coming technologies that will be able to control our nervous system on a fundamental level. This is not pie in the sky thinking. For those of you that don't know about Moore's law.
Moore's law: A description of the long-term trend in the history of computing hardware toward exponential growth in cost performance.
Basically what this means is that we are use to linear growth but with singularity you get something called exponential growth. Meaning progress reaches the point where progress really takes off. What this means for transhumanism, is that we are really not all that far off from really ground breaking technologies that will change the world and challenge us.
Now I don't think it's all good. The reason why is that many people want to use the coming new technologies to replace human body parts and worst of all replacing most of the brain for a computer that will last longer. This has some serious spiritual, moral, problems. IMHO anyone that would replace most of their brain with a computer is really misinformed on the nature of reality. They don't realize that once they take out a part of their brain and replace it with a computer they can't get back that other part of themselves. That part of themselves that they take out is what makes them who they are with all of there past karmic imprints on it. From the good to the bad. What is the point in our spiritual evolution if we are just going to replace all of our body parts with a machine. That is spiritual suicide IMHO. And honestly once they do die. They would not even be able to function in the astral for a long time since they took out the biological parts of themselves that were needed to help them function on the other side. I doubt any part of the computing power of a brain computer implanted in the brain will follow you when you die and go to the astral. It would have to be a very advanced computer that could follow you into the astral when you die.
Now I would not mind replacing some body parts perhaps and even some organs. Even though ultimately they do have our karmic imprints from our past which make us who we are. I would not for instance trade my heart for a device. But I would possibility do that with my lower intestine for instance if needed. On the other hand if it only would give me an extra year to live in a suffering state then I would probably just skip the mechanical intestine and go naturally.
Now there is a lot of potential for spiritual evolution and growth with transhumanism. For instance we can find out which genes make you astral project and then activate all of those genes at the right time and BAM instant astral projection on demand for anyone with the technology to afford it at the time. Then it really would not take too long for this kind of technology to be lowered in price. I would imagine that there will be a precursor to instant astral projection technology and someone will just come also and quite easily exploit it to make instant astral projection.
Now once this happens we should see the rapid integration of science and spirituality. Where science and spirituality are no longer at odds. At least not like now. This will obviously only deepen the mysteries of life, which is what science is good at. Instead of just saying "God did it" we can say wow let us investigate the mysteries of the universe and life.
I can also imagine this technology being used to find out what is going on in the brains of monks and enlightened people. Then we can translate those results with transhuman technology in order to give anyone instant Zen meditation. You can meditate very very deeply with the coming transhumanism technologies. You will not even need a master to teach you. You can download software into your brain to guide you through it and teach you things very quickly. You should also be able to make psychedelic effects with this kind of technology. Any psychedelic you wish can be made on demand if you wish. Not only that but we can find out which genes are responsible for kundalini awakening in order to open our nervous system to the power of kundalini. I will be laughing if the government tries to stop this one. People becoming enlightened and breaking away from the status quo with the power of transhumanism. I can see the possibility of being able to get instant lucid dreams also. The possibilities are endless really. But the potential for a spiritual Armageddon is real too because you can't get back in your body/soul the parts you decide to cut out here on earth IMHO.
Maybe we are already in a spiritual Armageddon with all of the abortions happening. But at least the fetuses are connected to the body and the whole brain is intact when they die and transition to the astral.
Some of the other things that I see coming out in the next couple of decades is that ability to live a lot longer. Prevent cancer by selectively killing cells that can cause cancer. Radically upgrading our intelligence. And so much more.
Here is another list of things transhumanists want to do.
"Transhumanists support the emergence and convergence of technologies such as nanotechnology, biotechnology, information technology and cognitive science (NBIC), and hypothetical future technologies such as simulated reality, artificial intelligence, superintelligence, mind uploading, chemical brain preservation, and cryonics. They believe that humans can and should use these technologies to become more than human.[70] They therefore support the recognition and/or protection of cognitive liberty, morphological freedom, and procreative liberty as civil liberties, so as to guarantee individuals the choice of using human enhancement technologies on themselves and their children.[71] Some speculate that human enhancement techniques and other emerging technologies may facilitate more radical human enhancement no later than the midpoint of the 21st century.[41]"
As you can see they have a lot to do with the future of the human body and how it functions. I can't down play the potential for good with transhumanism but at the same time there is a real potential for bad. We need to be careful and have our own say in how this technology should be used in the future.
Note: I am a little bit more optimistic than what this video presents,
but I think we all need to know the risks of Transhumanism and other
related technologies.
TRANSHUMANISM (Full): Techno-eugenics for the neo-feudal age -- Tom
Horn interview, by Alex
http://youtu.be/b0-zKZhdjsI
Here is a more positive view on transhumanism.
Ray Kurzweil - Futurist
http://youtu.be/QROMNOEI3PQ
Transhumanism will have some serious implications for all including Atheists to the religious and even animals on earth if transhumanist have their way. IMHO transhumanism will transform our societies beliefs about spirituality life and death. Hopefully we can have a smooth ride to a better world through transhumanism.
Again I take the middle ground on this issue. I think we need to be careful. It's like balancing the yin and the yang I guess you could say.
So if you have any personal thoughts about this I would love to hear it. I do believe this will be effecting us in our lifetime to some degree or another. Especially if cold fusion AKA LENR turns out to be true. :wink:
Love and light.
I would imagine in the future you could download some program or software that can effect you nervous system in a couple of ways in order to achieve astral projection whenever you wish. Then when one does decide they want to see what everyone else is talking about (astral projection) they can lay down and initiate the program, and in 15 minutes one can be out of body. Of course that is after it has been developed enough. I would imagine at first it will take some time to develop it of course to that point. But this is a no brainer to me. If astral projection is real and I have very very strong belief/knowing that it is, then it's only a matter of time before we can crack the code as it were on the factors that cause one to have an OBE. But I am very confidant that astral projection is real and almost anyone will be able to do it in the future.
Technology is growing fast enough that we can start anticipating this kind of modality from the medical and technological technologies that are being made and predicted right now.
Peace.
Some people are way ahead in this area. Check out orgone generators and resonance tech.
I know about orgone generators, I don't see how that will help one astral project yet. I don't know exactly what you mean by "resonance tech". I did a quick google search and it may in some way be developed to help find out what happens in the brain of those who astral project. IDK.
If you have some good links to better info on these technologies then I would like to see them.
Peace and light.
Quote from: astralprojectee on September 06, 2012, 04:56:10Peace and light.
Never mind. I get the feeling it'll be used for rotten purposes.
Quote from: zareste on September 06, 2012, 06:01:01
Never mind. I get the feeling it'll be used for rotten purposes.
WTF does that mean?
Call me cynical, but I don't believe any such future tech will be used for the benefit of the population, other than the very rich. I also don't think there's any evidence that astral projection could be initiated by manipulating genes.
As for orgone generators, If astral projection is really an energetic phenomenon as say Robert Bruce believes, then they could be used to provide the etheric body with a surplus of qi/chi/prana , which could be used in the separation process, and for increasing the clarity and duration of OBE's.
Victor Frankenstine had great ideas too . His went a little astray . desert rat
I think transhumanism is materialism at an extreme. Addiction to the physical. Not being able to let go. Ray Kurzweil is an example of that. There's nothing wrong with aging and dying - it's a beautiful process.
Quote from: Stookie_ on September 06, 2012, 11:39:09
I think transhumanism is materialism at an extreme. Addiction to the physical. Not being able to let go. Ray Kurzweil is an example of that. There's nothing wrong with aging and dying - it's a beautiful process.
yep, better dead than a Borg.
Resistance is futile lol.
This should be called Robotics 101. We are what we are supposed to be!
The first robots/transhumans will be used on the battlefield before anywhere else, just like any new technology is used, as unfortunate as that is. The next use of it will be for the rich and elite, so they can remain rich and elite.
Stookie once again hit the nail on the head with this quote:
"I think transhumanism is materialism at an extreme. Addiction to the physical. Not being able to let go. Ray Kurzweil is an example of that. There's nothing wrong with aging and dying - it's a beautiful process".
I don't think it will be for just the rich. Technology prices are always going down because something better and faster is coming out. Gamers, educators of all sorts will drive down the price and cause high demand. IMHO if you can afford a decent car and computer with health insurance then you will be able to have the technology to astral project. Especially if cold fusion AKA LENR is real then I know for certain this will happen. I have been following new developments in the LENR field for sometime now and I can tell you it keeps getting better. With people from CERN, NASA, Navy, National Instruments, MIT, SRI getting involved in the field it's breaking out of it's taboo status and moving on to become a real science. A couple of companies are scheduled to start selling cold fusion/LENR products soon. We will see.
As far as it being a materialist technology. Yes it can be used for those purposes but it can also be used for spiritual purposes. It could become your ultimate spiritual aid/teacher or your ultimate materialist dreams come true. It all depends on how you decide to use it IMHO. Almost any tool can be used for good and bad and everything in between it is up to us what we choose to do with it.
I also agree that I don't want to live to long but certainly some life extension is a good thing. Especially if you can stop or slow any suffering along the way. In the end I don't want any machines keeping me alive while on my death bed. I don't want any special interventions if it will just cause more suffering. So yes I agree with you about dying Lionheart.
Also the military wants an almost all robot Military by something like 2034. I forget the exact year but they want it ASAP around that time. So I am not so sure about transhuamansim technology being used in civilians. They would rather just use robots I would think than have to deal with the moral, ethical ramifications of modifying soldiers in some drastic way.
Peace.
A friend of mine that was staying over at my place last night following the Minnesota State Fair and he brought up a valid point. He said that it is nice to see what we are doing and trying to achieve, but our views are shared by such a small percentage of the population that it will take many many years to really even make a dent. To be something of substance, where there are going to be financial backers there would have to be a completely different global mindset. Until that time we remain a very, very small voice.
Like we always say here, people awaken when they are ready to.
This is a personal journey, not a video game! :-)
Quote from: Lionheart on September 06, 2012, 16:42:23
A friend of mine that was staying over at my place last night following the Minnesota State Fair and he brought up a valid point. He said that it is nice to see what we are doing and trying to achieve, but our views are shared by such a small percentage of the population that it will take many many years to really even make a dent. To be something of substance, where there are going to be financial backers there would have to be a completely different global mindset. Until that time we remain a very, very small voice.
Like we always say here, people awaken when they are ready to.
This is a personal journey, not a video game! :-)
Are you serious do you think that if one uses transhumanist technologies to astral project that there astral projection is not as real as your astral projection? What do you mean by " This is a personal journey, not a video game!"? Also transhumanist technologies like I am pointing out will bring astral projection and spiritual technology to the forefront of our civilization in the most smoothest and fastest way possible. And IMHO it will be about time.
Quote from: astralprojectee on September 06, 2012, 16:48:50
Are you serious do you think that if one uses transhumanist technologies to astral project that there astral projection is not as real as your astral projection? What do you mean by " This is a personal journey, not a video game!"? Also transhumanist technologies like I am pointing out will bring astral projection and spiritual technology to the forefront of our civilization in the most smoothest and fastest way possible. And IMHO it will be about time.
I am stating that you won't find a lot of people that will be onboard with any Transhumanist Technologies towards AP until they change their current mindset, no matter how easy these technologies would make Astral Travel. Why do you think it's so hard for people to AP?
Where did you get the idea that I said it wasn't the same? I said people wouldn't care regardless of the technology. This IS a personal journey, not a joy ride or Gamer related video game. Gurus have been teaching techniques for years, this isn't something that just recently appeared. You have to put hard work and commitment into being successful. Not everything in life has to have shortcuts. It's the "getting there" that teaches us personal control.
In your previous posts you bring up Psychedelics/Shrooms as possible aides. Now you bring up machines. You have the abilities inside of you already. I use my Laxman to aide people into a Trance feeling, but once there, they have to do the work to go further.
Quote from: Lionheart on September 06, 2012, 17:03:55
I am stating that you won't find a lot of people that will be onboard with any Transhumanist Technologies towards AP until they change their current mindset, no matter how easy these technologies would make Astral Travel. Why do you think it's so hard for people to AP?
Where did you get the idea that I said it wasn't the same? I said people wouldn't care regardless of the technology. This IS a personal journey, not a joy ride or Gamer related video game. Gurus have been teaching techniques for years, this isn't something that just recently appeared. You have to put hard work and commitment into being successful. Not everything in life has to have shortcuts. It's the "getting there" that teaches us personal control.
I kind of agree with you. Obviously it will take a certain kind of person to test it out. But IMHO all the teens will be the first to try it despite being Atheist agnostic and even religious. It will take time but certainly if we can get instant astral projection this really cuts a lot of the BS with trying to achieve astral projection. Which in itself is very valuable. I don't think AP acceptance will happen over night but certainly this kind of technology will radically speed up the progress here.
Let me make it clear that I believe that the transhumanist technology that will make it possible to AP will first be used for a variety of other things within the human body and mind. All one will have to do is download a program and run it to have instant AP. Obviously if one has to buy a special technology to achieve AP it will take a longer time to get the word out. But I doubt that will be the case in 50-100 years from now.
Quote from: astralprojectee on September 06, 2012, 17:11:08
I kind of agree with you. Obviously it will take a certain kind of person to test it out. But IMHO all the teens will be the first to try it despite being Atheist agnostic and even religious. It will take time but certainly if we can get instant astral projection is really cuts a lot of the BS with trying to achieve astral projection. Which in itself is very valuable. I don't think AP acceptance will happen over night but certainly this kind of technology will radically speed up the progress here.
It's the BS, as you put it that teaches you. You seem to be missing the point here.
Quote from: Lionheart on September 06, 2012, 17:14:52
It's the BS, as you put it that teaches you. You seem to be missing the point here.
If I am missing a point, can you explain the point better?
They might build humanoid-robot bodies that people could inhabit after death , of if some one had a major health problem . desert rat
they could live in a jar like in futurama :wink:
:NoY:
Quote from: astralprojectee on September 06, 2012, 17:32:28
If I am missing a point, can you explain the point better?
It's what you have to go through to reach the Astral that teaches you. Meditation, Lowering your Entropy, clearing your mind, focusing outside of the physical. When you do these things you change, your whole world and persona becomes altered in positive ways. I know you are a member of the "now" generation. But some things in life aren't supposed to happen with a push of a button.
[lionheart][no matter how easy these technologies would make Astral Travel. Why do you think it's so hard for people to AP?]
Are you saying its hard for people to astral project because of a deep rooted subconscious belief that they cant?
Quote from: mindflood on September 06, 2012, 17:44:54
Are you saying its hard for people to astral project because of a deep rooted subconscious belief that they cant?
No, I'm saying it's hard because it's supposed to be hard. It's supposed to be a rite of passage. It's supposed to be something that teaches you along the way, something that helps you navigate your own existence. With hard work and determination you can and will access it.
Quote from: Lionheart on September 06, 2012, 17:40:50
It's what you have to go through to reach the Astral that teaches you. Meditation, Lowering your Entropy, clearing your mind, focusing outside of the physical. When you do these things you change, your whole world and persona becomes altered in positive ways. I know you are a member of the "now" generation. But some things in life aren't supposed to happen with a push of a button.
You have a small point here. But the bigger point is that transhumanism will provide a way to give some serious training wheels for those of little belief in anything spiritual. And that is worth every bit of it despite how easy it will become. One could argue that before domestication of horses we were better off trekking out on foot to get to where we needed to go. Or that books are better than a computers since with a book you get all the details. Or there is just something about holding a book that makes it more real or captivating. Or something like that. It's just a matter of perception.
I have no doubt that if one uses transhumanism technologies to teach themselves to astral project that one can get to the point where they don't even need a machine to help them. This is the idea ultimately. And to even take it a step further, ultimately we should be able to modify our DNA in order that everyone can astral project without any nano robotic enhancement. I see nothing wrong with this as long as we know what we are doing. By then we can run complex mathematical equations and algorithms to find out the effects of certain enhancements before we even create any genetically enhanced human beings. I have no doubt that some experiments will go wrong. But in the end all experiments will bring about more an end to suffering than any possible suffering in the short term with these kinds of experiments.
Peace.
Quote from: NoY on September 06, 2012, 17:37:24
they could live in a jar like in futurama :wink:
:NoY:
There would be no fun in that , you would need to have a body with full human movement and feeling , or it would be a lot more fun on the astral plane . On Pavlina a few years ago we had this discussion of un freezing a frozen body . Would there be a soul there to re inhabit that body ? Maby a demon would be wating for that body . desert rat
Quote from: Lionheart on September 06, 2012, 17:52:59
No, I'm saying it's hard because it's supposed to be hard. It's supposed to be a rite of passage. It's supposed to be something that teaches you along the way, something that helps you navigate your own existence. With hard work and determination you can and will access it.
I think what you call challenging will just change as time goes by. We will always have challenges. Does that mean we should all just go back to the stone age in order to learn how to challenge ourselves enough. Not necessarily. We just need to be challenged in different ways.
Quote from: astralprojectee on September 06, 2012, 19:02:04
I think what you call challenging will just change as time goes by. We will always have challenges. Does that mean we should all just go back to the stone age in order to learn how to challenge ourselves enough. Not necessarily. We just need to be challenged in different ways.
It's exactly this kind of thinking that makes lazy minds. People are always quick to fall back on the "dinosaur" excuse. If you don't conform to new technology, than you are old fashion and anti technology. There are some things that technology should not replace. I don't need to make excuses, I confront things head on no matter how difficult the challenge may be. I know as do many other people here that the true learning is in the entire experience. Why do you think we don't try use the Astral to win lotteries?
Quote from: Lionheart on September 06, 2012, 23:12:37
It's exactly this kind of thinking that makes lazy minds. People are always quick to fall back on the "dinosaur" excuse. If you don't conform to new technology, than you are old fashion and anti technology. There are some things that technology should not replace. I don't need to make excuses, I confront things head on no matter how difficult the challenge may be. I know as do many other people here that the true learning is in the entire experience. Why do you think we don't try use the Astral to win lotteries?
You are obviously missing the bigger point here. Don't you think it would be better to give astral projection to the world via transhuman technology than to say "no you must do AP my way, or you don't deserve to astral project at all."
Quote from: astralprojectee on September 07, 2012, 00:16:33
You are obviously missing the bigger point here. Don't you think it would be better to give astral projection to the world via transhuman technology than to say "no you must do AP my way, or you don't deserve to astral project at all."
It's not MY way, its the way it is! Why do you think we have thousands of threads on this forum related to this?
Do you expect to learn to play a guitar with a simple button or for that fact any trade in general? It's the challenge that gives you the final fulfillment! :-)
I can see that you don't share my view at all here and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. This is my final words on this post.
Thank you! :-)
Quote from: Lionheart on September 07, 2012, 00:22:38
It's not MY way, its the way it is! Why do you think we have thousands of threads on this forum related to this?
Do you expect to learn to play a guitar with a simple button or for that fact any trade in general? It's the challenge that gives you the final fulfillment! :-)
I can see that you don't share my view at all here and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. This is my final words on this post.
Thank you! :-)
Both views will work but my view will have the most effect and end more suffering faster.
Peace.
Quote from: astralprojectee
Here is another list of things transhumanists want to do.
"Transhumanists support the emergence and convergence of technologies such as nanotechnology, biotechnology, information technology and cognitive science (NBIC), and hypothetical future technologies such as simulated reality, artificial intelligence, superintelligence, mind uploading, chemical brain preservation, and cryonics. They believe that humans can and should use these technologies to become more than human.[70] They therefore support the recognition and/or protection of cognitive liberty, morphological freedom, and procreative liberty as civil liberties, so as to guarantee individuals the choice of using human enhancement technologies on themselves and their children.[71] Some speculate that human enhancement techniques and other emerging technologies may facilitate more radical human enhancement no later than the midpoint of the 21st century.[41"
Sorry to rain on the parade, but some of us think that these technologies will never exist, or at the very least, are way way beyond our current scientific understanding of the nature of the mind.
The field of AI emerged, maybe 60 or 70 years ago as a direct result of the invention of the computer. I think Alan Turing is the father of all this AI nonsense, when he invented the Turing Machine and proposed the Turing Test. Turing likened the human mind to a computer. And once he sewed the seeds, the idea took off. People (mainly science fiction authors) then started to propose that the human mind is a bio computer. i.e. the brain is a piece of hardware, and somewhere mixed in there, is a computer program, running on the brain hardware... and bam! the mind appears!
Well, there is absolutely no evidence to support this notion, other than the observation that computers can be made to respond a bit like humans do. But otherwise absolutely NO EVIDENCE that the human mind is the result of brain software running on brain hardware. The idea is pure speculation. It has gained widespread acceptance. Why? Mainly because of science fiction writers, such as Isaac Azimov and "I Robot". But NOT because of any scientific research. It is ALL just pure speculation.
Computers are not self aware, they do not have subjective experiences, they do not have emotions, they do not experience qualia like we do. these are all part of the "hard problem of consciousness". We must solve the hard problem before we can create any sort of technology which can interact with a human brain, let alone replace part of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness
We are no closer to solving the hard problem than we were 70 years ago when the field of AI was invented. And there is no evidence that this situation is is changing.
Why do we think that we will have this technology by 2050? Because Ray Kurzweil says so? Do you realise that back in 1960 they were predicting we would have this technology by 1990? It never appeared. It doesn't matter how fast our technology is expanding. If we start with zero knowledge about the "hard problem" it doesn't matter how quickly we expand that knowledge. It is still zero knowledge.
Hi,
Take a look back in history at all those natural to AP. Most if not all have a nomadic lifestyle or very similar. Read plenty of books and this fact is there. U.K. residents notably those from Scottish highlands are more adept than those of long term city life. Ask yourself why, then think would this new or future technology be of use to townies?
Transhumanists/technocrats are a bunch of lunatics, that's a fact.
Quote from: Everlasting on September 07, 2012, 22:26:02
Transhumanists/technocrats are a bunch of lunatics, that's a fact.
Actually I think that's called an opinion. LoL :)
Quote from: Xanth on September 07, 2012, 23:08:36
Actually I think that's called an opinion. LoL :)
But I like his thinking!
EDIT: oohhhhh, it is a fact. Read your sig Xanth!!!
Quote from: catmeow on September 08, 2012, 05:47:21
But I like his thinking!
EDIT: oohhhhh, it is a fact. Read your sig Xanth!!!
ROFL! :)
QuoteWhy do we think that we will have this technology by 2050? Because Ray Kurzweil says so? Do you realise that back in 1960 they were predicting we would have this technology by 1990? It never appeared. It doesn't matter how fast our technology is expanding. If we start with zero knowledge about the "hard problem" it doesn't matter how quickly we expand that knowledge. It is still zero knowledge.
Kurzweil has quite an accurate track record though but it's based on his theory of exponential growth which I don't think will continue. Neither does his predictions take into account social and ethical concerns which would slow down progress. I wouldn't write him off but his predictions are quite optimistic. We'll see :)