Trying but failing

[shawnp]

First off, I have to be honest and tell you that I don't have lots of time to get this done.  My wife and kids are away on a yearly vacation without me and this is the only time I have were I have the peace to get this done.  Over the last 2 days I have tried 3 times, last year and the year before and year before about 10 times per weekend.  So if inducing OBE takes hundreds of practice tries, I'm screwed.

Last year I made it to vibrations and got scared and snapped myself out of it.  This year I have not mad it to vibrations, but did make it to a very relaxed body state-sleep paralysis.  At this point several things start to happen.
I fall in and out of sleep.
My body feels heavy.
I feel myself jumping out of my skin.  I don't know if this is because I am trying to have an obe and I am inducing this feeling?
I feel this incredible urge to move.
I get annoyed at distractions like a sound or an ich that takes away my concentration.

Any advice on getting through this stage?

I
Why I have been trying to focus on is a ball of light about 3 inches in front of my 3rd eye, once I feel like I am in sleep paralysis, then I instead see a rope and try to grab it.  This is as far as I have made it.  I wonder what is holding me back, what can I do better?  I wonder if I'm trying to hard?  Must you try to leave you body?  Or does it happen naturally?  Once your body is in a relaxed sleep paralysis state, what state does your mind need to be in?  I assume in order for this to work you mind must be focused on one thing for a period of time.  So each time a thought comes into my mind, I get annoyed and think "Oh got start all over".  I think either I'm right and my inability to focus is screwing me up or the stress I cause myself when I lose my concentration might be screwing me up.

[Rudolph]

Any advice on getting through this stage?

I strongly recommend reading this free ebook and watching the videos at this site.

http://school.obe4u.com/

[Summerlander]

First off, I have to be honest and tell you that I don't have lots of time to get this done.  My wife and kids are away on a yearly vacation without me and this is the only time I have were I have the peace to get this done.  Over the last 2 days I have tried 3 times, last year and the year before and year before about 10 times per weekend.  So if inducing OBE takes hundreds of practice tries, I'm screwed.

First off, no you're not...you are not screwed...

I live with my wife and three kids and if you looked at my journal...it's a three-year record already. At first I never used to project that much but now it's getting to the point where I do it every week at least. This link will show you how I usually do it and the times that I do it in:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/how_to_have_an_out_of_body_experience_composed_by_summerlander-t34339.0.html

It doesn't take a lot of practice. For me, priming is paramount for a fast OOBE induction. In fact, OOBE induction is easier than what people think regardless of whether you've got kids or not. If they are noisy during the day, then perhaps nighttime is the best option. 3-4 am is when your melatonin levels peak (a good time to enter the Phase). You can get up, use the toilet, and go back down to induce. In the morning, after a full night's sleep, entering the Phase is piece of cake too but it involves recognising that you have really woken up without moving, and launching from the hypnopompic state.

Last year I made it to vibrations and got scared and snapped myself out of it.  This year I have not mad it to vibrations, but did make it to a very relaxed body state-sleep paralysis.  At this point several things start to happen.
I fall in and out of sleep.
My body feels heavy.

Lapses in consciousness can happen. When you go down to induce, the mind will wander. If it gets lost, focus on something. If it gets lost again, gently bring it back to focus. This does NOT mean that you are failing (on the contrary!!) it is very natural. Mind starts to get lost...bring it back to focus...mind starts to get lost...bring it back to focus...until suddenly BANG (you experience a shift in consciousness and you are very much aware). You have already had a taste of sleep paralysis and vibrations so you probably know what I'm talking about. You may also benefit from checking this site out:

www.obe4u.com

I feel myself jumping out of my skin.  I don't know if this is because I am trying to have an obe and I am inducing this feeling?
I feel this incredible urge to move.
I get annoyed at distractions like a sound or an ich that takes away my concentration.

Priming yourself with a pre-nap or sleep takes all of this away because, if you interrupt a sleep cycle, your brain will be hungry for REM and your body will be dying to sleep at the next opportunity, with or without the mind losing consciousness. So when you go down to induce, all you have to do is relax and the brain will enter REM within 10 minutes instead of the usual 90 minute wait (this is the difference it makes if you prime yourself first).

The body falls asleep so quickly and doesn't wait around for the mind. The mind will be aware during sleep paralysis (the natural sleep mechanism that causes muscle atonia) and vibrations may or may not be experienced. Remember: mind awake, body asleep. - this is what you are aiming for. Vibrations are a good indication of when to separate. Let them peak and then apply a method of separation. I personally find the rolling over and out very effective (where movement is NOT imagined - move as though physically).

Must you try to leave you body?  Or does it happen naturally?  Once your body is in a relaxed sleep paralysis state, what state does your mind need to be in?  I assume in order for this to work you mind must be focused on one thing for a period of time.  So each time a thought comes into my mind, I get annoyed and think "Oh got start all over".  I think either I'm right and my inability to focus is screwing me up or the stress I cause myself when I lose my concentration might be screwing me up.

Perhaps you are trying too hard. Once I reach the hypnagogic state and auditory/visual hallucinations jump at me, I stop focusing on my something (usually a lamp) and I just observe. Don't be too analytical of what is happening to you. From that point on you just relax and enjoy the weirdness until you decide it's time to separate. Do not get annoyed with thought coming to your mind, btw! The mind naturally wanders, so all you have to do is bring it back to your point of focus (in your case the ball of light). Do it every time it wanders and remember...you are not "starting over" by doing this.

What is screwing you is your belief that you are failing and the fact that you get annoyed with yourself. Trust me. I've been there. You are not failing.

[Xanth]

Hey Shawnp. 

Welcome to the Astral Pulse.

First off, I have to be honest and tell you that I don't have lots of time to get this done.  My wife and kids are away on a yearly vacation without me and this is the only time I have were I have the peace to get this done.  Over the last 2 days I have tried 3 times, last year and the year before and year before about 10 times per weekend.  So if inducing OBE takes hundreds of practice tries, I'm screwed.

It can be hard to find the time to practice.  The benefits are great though to try and find the time, even with the kids and wife around.  You could always just tell them that you need an hour to yourself.

Last year I made it to vibrations and got scared and snapped myself out of it.  This year I have not made it to vibrations, but did make it to a very relaxed body state-sleep paralysis.  At this point several things start to happen.
I fall in and out of sleep.
My body feels heavy.
I feel myself jumping out of my skin.  I don't know if this is because I am trying to have an obe and I am inducing this feeling?
I feel this incredible urge to move.
I get annoyed at distractions like a sound or an ich that takes away my concentration.

Any advice on getting through this stage?

Don't aim for Vibrations.  They're not a goal... the goal is to disassociate from your physical body and surroundings.
Your first issue here is that you're allowing yourself to "get annoyed" at random things.  You need to work on this area first.

If you have an itch, just scratch it... if you hear a noise, just accept it.  Let the distractions and the noises be like the flowing water... let them flow around and past you.  If you want to be able to ignore and tune out that which is around you, you will need to work on being more accepting to those things.

My suggestion is to break it down to just learning to meditate first.  Learn to control your own mind and thoughts... then move onto learning to project.

Why I have been trying to focus on is a ball of light about 3 inches in front of my 3rd eye, once I feel like I am in sleep paralysis, then I instead see a rope and try to grab it.  This is as far as I have made it.  I wonder what is holding me back, what can I do better?  I wonder if I'm trying to hard?  Must you try to leave you body?  Or does it happen naturally?  Once your body is in a relaxed sleep paralysis state, what state does your mind need to be in?  I assume in order for this to work you mind must be focused on one thing for a period of time.  So each time a thought comes into my mind, I get annoyed and think "Oh got start all over".  I think either I'm right and my inability to focus is screwing me up or the stress I cause myself when I lose my concentration might be screwing me up.

What does being in "Sleep Paralysis" mean to you?  It sounds like you might be confusing yourself with terms... so I just need you to clear that up quickly.
When you say that you get into a "relaxed sleep paralysis" state, what do you mean?

And stop getting annoyed at yourself.
That will stop you everytime.  You sound like your own worst enemy. 

[Summerlander]

If you have an itch, just scratch it... if you hear a noise, just accept it.  Let the distractions and the noises be like the flowing water... let them flow around and past you.  If you want to be able to ignore and tune out that which is around you, you will need to work on being more accepting to those things.

This is excellent advice, Xanth. In fact, noise can sometimes be something that keeps you focused as your body is trying to sleep. Sometimes I get hypnic jerks in the morning because my kids get up and start playing in their rooms. Their sharps sounds bring me back to consciousness as I'm falling back to sleep or my mind is wandering. Then my body quickly slips into SP and vibrations often ensue which give me a clue of when to separate (I'm used to separating).

On the other hand, sometimes I have been able to hold on to scenarios that emerge during the hypnagogic state and been able to "enter" them. This, of course, is closer to the phasing method, and tends to skip the bedroom environments to get you far away already.

[shawnp]

Thank you all for the advice,
The site and videos were awsome. 

"Perhaps you are trying too hard. Once I reach the hypnagogic state and auditory/visual hallucinations jump at me, I stop focusing on my something (usually a lamp) and I just observe. Don't be too analytical of what is happening to you. From that point on you just relax and enjoy the weirdness until you decide it's time to separate. Do not get annoyed with thought coming to your mind, btw! The mind naturally wanders, so all you have to do is bring it back to your point of focus (in your case the ball of light). Do it every time it wanders and remember...you are not "starting over" by doing this.

What is screwing you is your belief that you are failing and the fact that you get annoyed with yourself. Trust me. I've been there. You are not failing."
This is helpful as well.

In terms of my family, which are returning today, I have two problems.  1. When I talk about this stuff my wife thinks I'm nuts and 2. No piece in the morning.  I might get lucky and wake up to a moment of silence and then I will give it a shot.


Sleep paralysis may not be the correct term to describe how far I've got, but It's a strange feeling like if I wanted to move my body I couldn't (although I am able to), my body feels heavy or even not their at all.

[Xanth]

Sleep paralysis may not be the correct term to describe how far I've got, but It's a strange feeling like if I wanted to move my body I couldn't (although I am able to), my body feels heavy or even not their at all.

That would be the "beginning" stage of sensations that come along with the Trance state.

Keep pushing towards that.  You sound like you're on the right path, you just need a bit more encouragement. 

The feeling heavy and loss of sensation of your body and your surroundings is the beginning of "disassociating" from the physical.  This is what you want.  When I do this, my goal is to remove my consciousness from this physical reality to the point where it's just ME... just my consciousness... no physical reality... no physical body... no nothing... just ME and nothing.

From there, you can place your Intent to do whatever you want... and then ALLOW yourself to do it.   
Placing your Intent and then Allowing yourself to do it is like walking to the edge of a cliff (placing your Intent) and then allowing yourself to fall off (Allowing yourself to do it).  There's no effort in the "allowing" yourself part.

[Selea]

I
Why I have been trying to focus on is a ball of light about 3 inches in front of my 3rd eye, once I feel like I am in sleep paralysis, then I instead see a rope and try to grab it.  This is as far as I have made it.  I wonder what is holding me back, what can I do better?  I wonder if I'm trying to hard?  Must you try to leave you body?  Or does it happen naturally?  Once your body is in a relaxed sleep paralysis state, what state does your mind need to be in?  I assume in order for this to work you mind must be focused on one thing for a period of time.  So each time a thought comes into my mind, I get annoyed and think "Oh got start all over".  I think either I'm right and my inability to focus is screwing me up or the stress I cause myself when I lose my concentration might be screwing me up.

First of all stop trying "exiting your body". Don't focus on it. Learn how to enter a so-called "trance" and only that.  Also don't have expectations. They bring with them doubts and impatience.

Secondly, don't mix things up, as you are doing. There are three main methods to enter the trance state:

1. Using sleep and specifically the Hypnagogic or Hypnopompic state (this is the easiest method, especially using Hypnopompic state, doable either if you have no experience in anything else, its drawback is that the results are usually sporadic at beginning and you have less conscious control of the process and you can do it only using sleep, but it has the great positive of being very easy to adopt, for everyone, and it is also the method that has the most "instructions" to find out more).
2. Using self-hypnosis methods (they requires a bit more work than using sleep methods but they are much more "stable"). Progressive relaxation/breath awareness, inductions, passive visualization, active visualization etc. are all examples of self-hypnosis methods. An alternative is having an experienced hypnoterapist setting-up a post-hypnotic induction to bring you to trance immediately with a command (usually a word mixed with some simple action), but you must find someone that knows what he is doing and sometimes this is more difficult than simply learning doing it yourself.
3. Using full, undivided attention, 100% active concentration on something related to what you want to do (this is the most difficult method and it requires basis on many things to be effective, but it is the "faster" and more reliable of all the others. Still it requires a lot of training, so it's better to do other methods if you just want to have the experience).

Metdho 3 can and is sometimes used along the other two, but ONLY on the exit attempt to set the intent, and only briefly (or you are doing something wrong), and anyway it's stilll different there (and much easier, given the trance state), especially with 1, when it can just be an action, and nothing more.

So focus on one of those three and don't mix and match (I suggest to begin with 1 to try it out, then go to learning 2; or you can start directly from 2 if you have a little of patience and don't care necessarily to have a result of some sort as fast as you can).

You should focus on reaching that particular state that Xanth explained. When you have reached it, "exiting the body" it is just a matter of setting your intent on it. So don't focus on how to "exit", focus on how to reach that state using one of those methods, at first, or you do a lot of confusion and you just go nowhere (for example if you try to have full concentration on something as you do in method 3 and mix it with method 1 or method 2 before the trance state. as you are doing, it will bring you nowhere, only to a lot of frustration).

Another thing: let go of lust of result. You have to learn how to do things just for the sake of doing them, without expecting results. You have not to "try", trying holds you back, do it.

[shawnp]

Thanks for the amazing advice, you guys  are very willing to help.  I have rememberd about 4 times out of sleep to try, with no luck yet, but I have had some strange things happen.  One time I was focused on moving my hands and arms.  I gave up and then got up and my hands and arms were asleep.  I don't recall this every happening before.  Another time while I was trying I fell asleep and then ended up kicking my leg so hard I awoke.  Again this is unsual.  One time it felt like my hands might have been seperated, but I'm confused.  Do you see anything when you are out of your body? 

[Kieran]

Hi, one of my goals is to experience sleep-paralysis, and the other effects that occur as you go into sleep paralysis, the hallucinations, the falling sensations, and these "vibrations"
of course another goal is to lucid dream eventually too

If you have an itch, just scratch it... if you hear a noise, just accept it.  Let the distractions and the noises be like the flowing water... let them flow around and past you.  If you want to be able to ignore and tune out that which is around you, you will need to work on being more accepting to those things.

from what i know, this is very good advice, when i started out, i would lay on my back and just try to stay as still as i could for an hour, didnt get much results, wasnt until later, when i was just laying in bed with no intention to OBE that i experienced anything, (i was laying there, in a very comfortable position so i didnt need to move, just thinking about things and it happened)
for me it's best to just try to go to sleep, well almost, just act as you would if you were going to sleep, but have something on your mind to keep you conscious

dont take my word on it though, i'm just a beginner

[David Warner]

Everything is a goal and a small step towards projecting. If it's getting to the vibrational state, it is a start in the right direction. If that is all you reached, pat yourself on the back for a job well done *just reaching that level*.

From many years of experience, everytime that I project there is always a cause and reason, a goal that I set to accomplish. It can be something as reaching the vibrational state, or a full body exit into the astral. Other goal can be simple as walking through a wall, or exiting the house. Remember to take small steps than big one's. You are in the beginning stages learning how to enter a trance, feel vibrations, make a clean exit from the body and then experience a foreign new world and beyond. That is a big undertaking but can be exercised with time, patience, with proper documenting, and statistics.

Just remember that every night, this could be the one. If its not, you can try the next night, and so on. I would recommend that you find a comfort level of technique that you can work with over a period of time. Just because one technique might not yield immediate results, don't abandon it until 3-4 months. If does not work, move on to another technique.

There are no fast food drive thru's or magic pill to instant success when trying to project.  This goes without saying with anything we do in life. It all takes time and patience to develop. Remember to enjoy the fight, trial by error and passion behind your motivation. Being scared is normal and I can assure you that you will not die from a OBE. You might have a negative experience and be scarred for a little while, but that is rare. I have been out thousands of times and in all honestly, about 2% I ran into difficulty or a bad experience. It happens and you think positive to the next experience. Just do your best and please remember that if you really want to project whole heartedly, you will have to go the distance and train for that marathon.

Good Luck,

DW

[shawnp]

Felt like I was very close last night to being out of my body.  I remembered to try when I woke up.  While I felt like my astral body was out, I saw nothing.  At some point  or what point do you start to see?  How do you see without your eyes?

[Kieran]

from what i know, you cant see in a lucid dream, a lucid dream ( any dream ) is an idea really, your mind tricks you into thinking you can see, just like when you picture something in your head, you cant see it, but you know what it looks like

[shawnp]

Tried about 5 more times the last week.  Feel like I'm close, but who knows.  Trying upon waking up.  I cycle through trying to clap, reach for a rope, summersalt, and roll over with all my might.  I'm not trying to use my physical body, but I am.  One time I stopped and noticed that my legs were physically a few inch's off the ground.  My question is, Is moving your physical body close to moving your non-physical body?  Or am I fundamentally doing something wrong?  Still wondering about the vision thing also.  When your out of your body, do you just begin to see?

[Xanth]

Y'know, when I read people saying that they're trying this or trying that, but failing at it... I can't help but come back to good ol' Yoda here:

Do, or do not... there is no try. 

[astraladdict]

Y'know, when I read people saying that they're trying this or trying that, but failing at it... I can't help but come back to good ol' Yoda here:

Do, or do not... there is no try. 

Well there's also the fact that if it's not working for them.. Get the brains to try something else.

~astraladdict

[Bran]

Ugh, most of these threads just end up confusing me more...

3. Using full, undivided attention, 100% active concentration on something related to what you want to do (this is the most difficult method and it requires basis on many things to be effective, but it is the "faster" and more reliable of all the others. Still it requires a lot of training, so it's better to do other methods if you just want to have the experience).

That's what I've been trying the most, as it feels most natural to me... what is the "basis" that needs to be known here? It sounds like one needs to be experienced to do this technique. I have no problem keeping my focus on something... problem is, my brain is used to activity like that and it doesn't stop me from just going to sleep. Which is what happened to me last night. On the other hand, when I try technique #1:

"1. Using sleep and specifically the Hypnagogic or Hypnopompic state (this is the easiest method, especially using Hypnopompic state, doable either if you have no experience in anything else, its drawback is that the results are usually sporadic at beginning and you have less conscious control of the process and you can do it only using sleep, but it has the great positive of being very easy to adopt, for everyone, and it is also the method that has the most "instructions" to find out more)."

It seems impossible to try for this. It's true that most of the OBEs I've had that were worth something were close to morning, but I don't try for it. If I try to wake without opening my eyes, I can't. My eyes just pop open. I don't see how I can consciously stop that, not being conscious of being asleep.

And I see several comments in this threads that is saying we shouldn't be trying to leave the body? Okay, that contradicts pretty much everything I've been told so far... every technique involves some sort of method for detachment....

I've looked at that ob4u site, but... it didn't help me. The so-called "easiest method" is the one I find to be the hardest. All the articles and material are much more spiritual oriented than I'd like, not being a religious person.

[Xanth]

Hey Bran,

I can totally understand your confusion... it's something that we all struggle with as we attempt to learn master this ability. 
The confusion stems from all the different and often contradictory information regarding Astral Projection.  It's hard for a group of people to come to a consensus as to the "what" astral projection is and the "how" to do it.  This is mostly due to the fact that it's an individually unique and subjective experience.  So what works well for one person won't work well for everyone.

I PM'd you a link to my Phasing Primer, which includes a link to a downloadable PDF eBook I wrote.  I tried to be as basic as I can in explaining these things and how to get past certain issues.  So give it a read, and if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.  But remember, what you read in it is simply "my perspective" and in the end it could be wrong and it could not really help much.  LOL  See if it helps. 

[shawnp]

Hi Ryan,

While I have not had an experience yet, I have had luck trying in the morning.  Basically I found the more you think about have an OBE the more likely you are to thing about it at the right time.  Think about it when you go to bed especially and throughout the day.  I have especially had luck remembering with morning naps.

Although I am rembering to try, I still have not been able to seperate.

[Lionheart]

 Hey Bran, when I first started to OBE, I would bombard myself with info, books etc. on the subject. Always keeping it in my daily thoughts, even doing affirmations to convince myself and program myself that I can do it. There are alot of techniques, what you need to do is take a little something form each and develop your own or what works for you. I know it is frustrating almost getting there, then the doubts start to come in. When this happens to me I take my negativity, load it into a huge cannon and shoot it against a brick wall. The most important part of this visualization is to see it absolutely explode and disenegrate. Hopefully this helps you.
Good Luck!

[Bran]

Hey Bran,

I can totally understand your confusion... it's something that we all struggle with as we attempt to learn master this ability.  
The confusion stems from all the different and often contradictory information regarding Astral Projection.  It's hard for a group of people to come to a consensus as to the "what" astral projection is and the "how" to do it.  This is mostly due to the fact that it's an individually unique and subjective experience.  So what works well for one person won't work well for everyone.

I PM'd you a link to my Phasing Primer, which includes a link to a downloadable PDF eBook I wrote.  I tried to be as basic as I can in explaining these things and how to get past certain issues.  So give it a read, and if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.  But remember, what you read in it is simply "my perspective" and in the end it could be wrong and it could not really help much.  LOL  See if it helps.  

Thanks, I'll read it tomorrow.

Yes, I think that's pretty much, it- all the various info, etc out there, lol. But, yes, I realize that all I can do is learn what I can and kind of figure out the rest as I go along.

Hey Bran, when I first started to OBE, I would bombard myself with info, books etc. on the subject. Always keeping it in my daily thoughts, even doing affirmations to convince myself and program myself that I can do it. There are alot of techniques, what you need to do is take a little something form each and develop your own or what works for you. I know it is frustrating almost getting there, then the doubts start to come in. When this happens to me I take my negativity, load it into a huge cannon and shoot it against a brick wall. The most important part of this visualization is to see it absolutely explode and disenegrate. Hopefully this helps you.
Good Luck!

Lol, funny you should mention that... where's what I do: generally I will start off picturing some sort of slab- what type doesn't matter. I picture it as being something like off the old Soul Caliber games where you'd be on a floating block platform, only mine has only blackness for background scenery. I dispose of my negativity by either imagine tossing it into a big green dumpster in the center, or maybe do something creative like chuck it down a worm hole to vanish forever.

I have figured out somewhat of what I need to do to achieve an AP: seems like I do best letting my mind go somewhere rather than the traditional "keeping my mind focused on something". If I force it, I don't reach a "dream state" with that object. But, if, for example, my brain decides to go to a meadow as I mentioned elsewhere, it becomes much more real. The barrier for me seems to be not falling asleep(or being woken up/jarred) long enough to get to that place. But, I'm really undecided on where I want to go when I AP: sure, I'd like to visit my meadow more in-depth, but I'd feel better starting off in my room and then going to the meadow.

Anyway, I've far from given up. I'll be trying all this week. Thanks for the input guys and/or gals.

[Lionheart]

 Bran when you go to the Astral you need to have intent. Try focusing on 3 different places or 3 different things that you want to do when you get there. It's really hard to reach the Astral without a reason or goal for getting there. Everytime I travel I have my 3 focus areas, I try to spend as much time in each as I can, but when one of them really kicks in I stay with it.
Hopefully this helps you.

[Bran]

At this point, I'm really just wanting to get out... I really don't know what I want to do at this time other than that, cause I really am not sure what to expect... I won't be able to tell an AP from a dream unless I start it off controlled, such as in my room so I can verify to myself I am having an AP and not just dreaming. Aside from exploring my zone in AP form(I have a large bathroom mirror I'd like to mess with) and the meadow, I am really not sure what I want to do.... never been the most creative person at that sort of thing.

[Bran]

Argh, Ryan, I wrote out a nice pm to you and I don't think it sent it to you. Apparently there is some trick required aside from clicking "reply", writing out the message and then pushing "send". ><

Anyway: thanks, the ebook was very informative!

Now I realize that the times I heard/saw stuff I was in F-12- I didn't understand those terms prior to reading that- and that I was actually pretty close to AP. I also realize that I've been doing it wrong lately. The times I've managed to AP where the times I was doing things similar to the techniques outlined in the ebook. When I lay down at night, I often get to sleep and clear my head by "noticing" stuff behind my eyes. Sometimes I'll basically do what is called the "mental-rundown" in that ebook- the night I saw that meadow, that's what I was doing. So, it's interesting that I seem to all ready do those things naturally. It seems to be going farther that I struggle with. Last night I tried with this newly found knowledge and wasn't very successful. Noticing wasn't as effective as it usually is, just didn't see anything interesting. Probably now that I know about it, it won't work anymore, usually how it goes.

I have a question: should I be using both techniques or just one? Like, once I get to F-12 with noticing, would I continue on or start a mental-rundown? Not that I am there yet, was just wondering. Another thing I wonder about is "vibrations". I can never tell if this is occurring for me. Sometimes I get a little tingle somewhere or a limb feels weird, but I'm not sure it counts.

[Xanth]

Argh, Ryan, I wrote out a nice pm to you and I don't think it sent it to you. Apparently there is some trick required aside from clicking "reply", writing out the message and then pushing "send". ><

Anyway: thanks, the ebook was very informative!

Now I realize that the times I heard/saw stuff I was in F-12- I didn't understand those terms prior to reading that- and that I was actually pretty close to AP. I also realize that I've been doing it wrong lately. The times I've managed to AP where the times I was doing things similar to the techniques outlined in the ebook. When I lay down at night, I often get to sleep and clear my head by "noticing" stuff behind my eyes. Sometimes I'll basically do what is called the "mental-rundown" in that ebook- the night I saw that meadow, that's what I was doing. So, it's interesting that I seem to all ready do those things naturally. It seems to be going farther that I struggle with. Last night I tried with this newly found knowledge and wasn't very successful. Noticing wasn't as effective as it usually is, just didn't see anything interesting. Probably now that I know about it, it won't work anymore, usually how it goes.

I have a question: should I be using both techniques or just one? Like, once I get to F-12 with noticing, would I continue on or start a mental-rundown? Not that I am there yet, was just wondering. Another thing I wonder about is "vibrations". I can never tell if this is occurring for me. Sometimes I get a little tingle somewhere or a limb feels weird, but I'm not sure it counts.

Just one technique will do.   

They are separate exercises essentially.