I have an idea that I want to toss out into the mix regarding what the Vibrational State is. This idea explains what it is and why people eventually stop experiencing it as they progress through their Projection Careers. It's simple really... as with other "sensations" associated with astral projection and obe's, the Vibrations are a manifestation of your expectations.
We've all "read about" the vibrations... actually, it's probably one of the very first things that a person learns about regarding astral projection! We're told that to project, you need to initiate the "Vibrational State" and then they go on to tell you *EXACTLY* what it's supposed to feel like. *THIS* is the problem.
Then we look at where it started... Robert Monroe might not have been the first one to experience this state, but he was the one to popularize it throughout our culture. He was the initial spark for this concept growing in the minds of the Astral Projection community. He was the first to make the connection that if you wanted to project (or in his words, go Out of the Body), you *HAD* to experience the Vibrations.
Let's look at Mr Monroe for a second... he was an Electrical Engineer, and what do the vibrations mostly feel like? He described them in the a way that he could understand... like a pulse of electricity flowing neatly through the body. I surmise that the possibility exists that these vibrations manifested within him *ONLY* in a manner which he could comprehend... "ELECTRICITY". This initial "connection" is now the most prevalent
Most people I speak with who are more experienced with Astral Projection tell me that they don't experience Vibrations all that much anymore. Some people believe this is because they've become "accustomed" or "familiar" with them... so the sensation doesn't have all that much impact upon them anymore. But if I apply the idea that the vibrations are an expectation based experience, then I'd conclude that it's because they've grown out of the requirement for them. They know now that they don't need to feel the vibrations in order to project, so they don't experience them anymore.
I do a type of projection called "Phasing"... whereby I was taught that it by passes the portion of a classic OBE/AP where the vibrations generally are believed to occur, so with that in mind, I don't experience them anymore. I'll re-iterate that point: I don't experience them anymore, because I don't expect to experience them.
Any thoughts?
I understand the connection your making, but I'm not sure...
The first time I felt vibrations was before I got into meditation or knew anything about it. I was lying in bed listening to music with headphones on and tuning out, and then started feeling floaty and swaying, and then the vibes hit hard and scared me to death. I had never heard about them or OBE's at this point. I definitely wasn't trying to OBE and was not expecting them. I know I can rule out expectations in this case.
If you've never naturally had vibrations, I don't think your imagination could hallucinate them based on expectations, because when you have vibes, there is no denying there is something to them. They are HARDCORE. And then there are the people who have never had vibes and expect them, and then mistakenly relate the tingly sensations during trance with them. That's pretty common.
Vibrations seem to be associated with the transition from physical to RTZ, which is where most people end up when they first start. I don't know why... maybe you have to prime yourself before moving further inward towards the astral-proper.
But as people gain experience, they tend to skip the RTZ all together and end up in an astral environment, even if it resembles the RTZ. Here, vibrations lessen immensely or seem to be non-existent.
These seem like normal patterns that I've noticed from myself and different projectors at the astral pulse over the years. While I haven't had vibes in years, it's hard for me to believe that they are just popularized expectations.
Quote...as they progress through their Projection Careers.
Career? I got suckered, I have to do it on my free time!
I was trying to do some research earlier if anyone in the past (before Monroe) experienced them... the only mention of some kind of vibration-y thing was Sylvan Muldoon mentioning something about it in his 1929 book. But I don't know the extent of it.
It would also explain why everyone seems to experience them in a slightly different manner. Anyway, as I said, just a theory I'm tossing out there.
If anyone has any information on some historical "vibration" cases... that'd be great to post here!
Ah, here's a good recounting of Muldoon's experiences: http://www.psychwww.com/asc/obe/whois_mu.html
Second Paragraph, first few sentences:
QuoteMuldoon's first conscious projection occurred when he was 12 years old. He awoke in the middle of the night to find himself conscious, but not knowing where he was, and apparently unable to move, a condition he later called astral catalepsy. Gradually the sensation of floating took over, and then a rapid up-and-down vibration and a tremendous pressure in the back of his head.
That was written 29 years prior to Monroes first experiences, so who knows really. :)
Food for thought, none-the-less... as I'm finding a lot of our non-physical lives being "expectation-related". And I'm starting to see this physical reality as being really nothing more than yet another "non-physical environment'. It makes sense to me that the same rules apply "here" as they do "there".
I guess the real question is, did Monroe term his experience a "vibration" before or after he read Muldoon's book, because then the initial link could be from Muldoon, with Monroe simply bringing it into the public consciousness in a more popular manner. Hmmm
QuoteCareer? I got suckered, I have to do it on my free time!
hehe ;)
The first time I experienced vibrations I thought I was being kidnapped by aliens, so I don't agree on the idea of it being an expectation.
Also, ancient Hindu Mythology describes creation cosmology in terms of vibration, and Kundalini arousal symptoms also include vibration (or is described in terms of vibrations), so it's not unreasonable to suppose that it could have been influenced by actual symptoms felt by meditators, since they did it first. :-)
The thing is, that the western mind tends to separate things and categorize them separately- so we study the OBE and hone in on this or that symptom, and don't look at them in a 'big picture' kind of way.
However, the ancient Hindi saw the whole thing as related, so a meditator feeling vibrations could have been interpreted as becoming one with the eternal AUM and would have expressed it that way, because an OBE would not be a thing in itself, but one of the things achieved by the search for enlightenment and oneness, in which meditation and asceticism would have been a large part of.
It's just a matter of having a general worldview that is very different from ours.
--
I like Nick Newport's ("The Lucidology Man" :wink:) take on this. It also explains why experienced projectors have them less or even stop having them.
http://www.lucidology.com/101/pdf/lucidology-101-p10-vibrations-www-lucidology-com.pdf
To sum up his hypothesis: vibes are just energy frictions and more or less a sign of energy waste and lack of effectiveness in the separation process. If you learn the ropes of OBEs then you also learn to reduce the frictions and thus they decrease or vanish.
I cannot assess this theory adequately on my own for lack of sufficient experience. Recently, I only had "exits" into lucid projections from dreams without vibrations. Before that, I had them with vibrations (but very different ones) from the hypnopomp trance state. My very first OBEs were lucid dream conversions where I got "woken up" "back to my body" and starting to the ceiling upwards, and those vibrations were very HEAVY! Extremely heavy so it felt like thousand volts (without the pain of course) going through my whole body. Now I have only lighter and more evenly spread vibes (those from hypnopomp state). Thus for me it depends on the induction/exit method. However, the reduction of vibes for me could support the theory of the "learning effect" and "reduced friction". But I don't know for sure.
This is then the perfect thread to discuss theories of what the Vibrations might be.
I'm still not decided if they're truly an objective experience.
CFT and Volgerle, thank you for the perspectives too! :)
Anyone else have any other opinion?
the past 2 mornings i can actually say ive experience the vibrations, and they are DEF. very extreme and noticeable; its impossible for them to not be at that stage.
Everything is frequency (VIBRATION) when we shift dimension it's quite common to feel this vibrational shift. I thought this was common knowledge.
Quote from: Everlasting on January 18, 2011, 09:00:16
Everything is frequency (VIBRATION) when we shift dimension it's quite common to feel this vibrational shift. I thought this was common knowledge.
That's the point though, it *IS* common knowledge.
However, I don't experience them anymore. Many people here don't experience them either.
... and I'm unsure if it's because I'm "used" to them, or "Phasing" doesn't get them, or if I just don't expect to experience them.
That's what I'm asking.
It's obvious if you experience them that they "feel" real.
My question is, do you really think they are real?
Quote from: Everlasting on January 18, 2011, 09:00:16
Everything is frequency (VIBRATION) when we shift dimension it's quite common to feel this vibrational shift. I thought this was common knowledge.
Everything is frequency, but when you are beating at the same frequency as what's around you, it is not apparent. What makes vibration (of any kind, not just shift vibes) to be perceived as such, is when you are beating at a different frequency, that is, not harmonically, with your environment.
That is why I suspect that separation vibrations 'go away' after you are experienced- perhaps you synch in to them quicker. Just a hypothesis, not even a proper theory.
Something I forgot to mention is that every time I've experienced vibes, it was accompanied with a pulsing heart-chakra. I don't know that I've ever had them without that chakra going crazy too. From what I've read in the past on the forum, some people just get the heart-chakra pulsing during separation without the vibes.
my theory is that we normally experience the vibration of atoms in the physical as sensory input which is translated as sights, sounds, smells, etc., etc. Then in the astral our brain is receiving a different kind of vibrational sensory input, but it's still translated into sensory information (though the stimuli themselves are of a different frequency of vibration). The transition from physical to astral doesn't negate vibration. But that transitory phase is vibrating in a frequency we are not familiar with. We are familiar with the physical and astral vibrations, so our brain can process this stimuli. But that in-between gradient of vibration is foreign to our brain, so early on, we don't know what to make of it and perceive it as what it is, infinite probability. just the vibration of reality, pure and simple. as we project more and more, our brain learns to handle that transitory vibration and we no longer feel it physically.
Quote from: CFTraveler on January 18, 2011, 09:54:39
Everything is frequency, but when you are beating at the same frequency as what's around you, it is not apparent. What makes vibration (of any kind, not just shift vibes) to be perceived as such, is when you are beating at a different frequency, that is, not harmonically, with your environment.
That is why I suspect that separation vibrations 'go away' after you are experienced- perhaps you synch in to them quicker. Just a hypothesis, not even a proper theory.
So you're saying that it's some kind of "in-between" frequency shift?
Definitely plausible. That was always my initial thoughts as well... along with the other "static noises" that people tend to report hearing.
Quote from: Xanth on January 18, 2011, 14:46:40
So you're saying that it's some kind of "in-between" frequency shift?
Definitely plausible. That was always my initial thoughts as well... along with the other "static noises" that people tend to report hearing.
That's what it seems like to me, yes. PR expressed it well also, I think.
I wouldn't say I'm experienced... but I don't get the Vibrations anymore either.
Perhaps it truly *IS* because with Phasing, you by-pass the point where vibrations happen.
I'm still curious by this... lol
Hmmm... thought...
Does anyone get Vibrations when they by-pass the RTZ and directly project to the Astral?
If individuals only get the Vibration while doing an RTZ (aka OBE)-type projection... then perhaps, it's related to that.
Again, just thinking outloud.
I agree that vibes come with RTZ. In phasing you are shifting your consciousness but in RTZ its like you are trying to *physically* move your consciousness.
I think the brain cause vibes to manifest in the begining because that is how it processes what is happening....as it becomes more common the brain has integrated the process as normal...
Quote from: testing on January 18, 2011, 15:26:58
I agree that vibes come with RTZ. In phasing you are shifting your consciousness but in RTZ its like you are trying to *physically* move your consciousness.
I think the brain cause vibes to manifest in the begining because that is how it processes what is happening....as it becomes more common the brain has integrated the process as normal...
Now THAT sounds like something I can wrap my head around. :)
Quote from: Xanth on January 18, 2011, 15:17:35
Does anyone get Vibrations when they by-pass the RTZ and directly project to the Astral?
If individuals only get the Vibration while doing an RTZ (aka OBE)-type projection... then perhaps, it's related to that.
From my own experiences, I can second that idea. My only RTZ projections were those where I only had VERY strong vibrations, almost tearing me apart :evil:. So the correlation for me would be the stronger the vibes the more or "nearer" I get (out) to the RTZ.
But I also have lighter vibes where I project to astral planes or lucid dreams - it seems (possibly I am also 'phasing' more into it recently, because I don't remember the exits anymore, there is just a 'switch' taking place, but still ... before that I may experience vibrations).
I think it is pretty much accepted that the higher you go in the Astral realm, the higher the vibrations. Once a person has projected several times into the RTZ, their vibrational field increases so the more experience one has, the less they will feel them. They're natural vibrational field is closer to the Astral so the transition is not as intense.
The strongest vibrations I ever felt did not allow me to project. Instead I had the feeling of going upward into space and I had no sight. At the time I was religious and thought the lord had come to take me home. But, as fate would have it, the vibrations stopped and I was back in my bedroom. However, the second time I experienced the vibrations, I was out and floating on the ceiling! Still, at this time I had no expectations because I had never heard of Astral travel.
I'm curious though, because it seemed that Monroe always mentioned having the vibrations even after many years and being as seasoned as he was, you would have thought they would have stopped.
This is a good topic for discussion! :-)
I had a short RTZ OBE last night with full on vibrations. I do so love the vibrations and hope they never go away. :-D
Quote from: jub jub on January 20, 2011, 08:22:27
I had a short RTZ OBE last night with full on vibrations. I do so love the vibrations and hope they never go away. :-D
I used to get them all the time during my practices back when I was attempting the "classic obe". But, now that I've switched over to Phasing... I don't experience them at all.
I'm still not 100% sold on the idea of them being something "real".
But yeah... looking for lots more opinions, thank you for yours Jubjub, it's much appreciated!
If anything, it's nice to get everyone's thoughts and ideas into a single location. :)
I miss vibrations. They used to be so pleasant and interesting.
Quote from: CFTraveler on January 20, 2011, 10:59:10
I miss vibrations. They used to be so pleasant and interesting.
From time to time, when I read the accounts of other people... I do miss them as well.
I remember my first ones... I had fully read about them and figured I knew exactly what to expect.
Well, needless to say... they scared the ever-loving CRAP outta me even though I had all the book-smarts about the subject. ROFL
Quote from: Xanth on January 20, 2011, 09:45:31
I'm still not 100% sold on the idea of them being something "real".
If they aren't "real", what else would they be?
Quote from: Stookie on January 20, 2011, 11:49:31
If they aren't "real", what else would they be?
Well then, that's the big question. ;)
At least, it's MY big question. lol
There has to be something that makes you question it. Anything? Because it's not observable? A gut instinct? I can't think of anything myself. It seems pretty verifiable across the board as a real thing that happens to pretty much everyone who projects at some point or another, whether they've heard about them or expect them, or don't. There's not too much difference between everyone's description of them either.
Being of electrical mind and body, I have a theory about phasing. My theory is that it is similar to paralleling two generators together (I use to work in a power plant so I like to use this analogy). Before paralleling two generators together, you must first synchronize the oncoming unit to the same phase relationship as the unit that is on line before you close the breaker. What that means is the voltage and frequency have to be identical or "in phase".
So, you can liken the relationship of phasing into the Astral the same as connecting two generators together electrically. As you raise your vibrational frequency by observing (mind awake, body asleep), your consciousness synchronizes with Astral and wallah, you're there!
As far as the strong vibrations felt by some, I believe that is usually the case when making the transition into the Etheric plane or real time zone (RTZ) as it's called. Because the transition is so abrupt, and the vibrational frequency so much lower, it is readily felt as a vibration or tingling sensation. I believe this accounts for why the higher you go into the Astal planes, the more vivid and brilliant they become.
Of course, all this is conjecture on my part and I really have no idea what I'm talking about! lol :-D
Quote from: Stookie on January 20, 2011, 11:49:31
If they aren't "real", what else would they be?
I think what Xanth meant is, they're not real in the sense of being a physical manifestation. More of a psychological phenomena.
Partially, Jub jub. :)
I mean... we all know that there are certain "baseline" experiences that people tend to experience towards everything metaphysical, however, we also know that there are exceptions to every rule. Not everyone is going to experience the same thing in the same manner each and every time.
Now... assuming that they're only felt during a classic 'etheric' projection (aka: OBE) and not during an 'astral' Projection... then that is actually good evidence within itself that the Etheric truly is a separate entity from the Astral. I dunno... I guess that's just a side note. LoL
Jub jub is correct though, in that do not believe for a second that Vibrations are anything physical. The question is really, what part of the non-physical, if any, are they related to.
Doesn't TMI have any big research towards this? I'd love to see what they gathered.
In any case, consider this me remaining... open minded. LoL :)
....
I cannot imagine vibrations to be chemical in its basis. That is, by the way, how reductionist / materialist skeptics surely would argue too - that's why I also don't like it 8-). Next logical step then would be that we postulate that projection is all a neuro-bio-chemically caused illusion of the brain-mind anyway, huh? :| :wink:
No, it is surely on the border between physical and nonphysical. "Etheric" might be the right expression since the etheric body is supposed to be narrowly entangled with the physical and does itself not leave the body except for standing out a few inches or so (ok, that's just a theory, who knows what's to it.. :wink:)
I think it is electromagnetical. It feels this way and to me it is only logical to assume it is.
....
Maybe you can find the answer here.
:-D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCeD_6Y3GQc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCeD_6Y3GQc)
I really don't think there's anything different going on chemically. In my opinion it is just the separation process. Our astral body.. usually in perfect vibrational harmony with the physical body.. begins to vibrate at a higher frequency when our physical begins to drift asleep. Now what if there is some sort of interference pattern between two bodies existing upon one another with different vibrations.. My guess would be is that they would interfere, possibly causing the shaking we feel.
Quote from: Under_the_Midnight_Sun on January 20, 2011, 22:21:48
I really don't think there's anything different going on chemically. In my opinion it is just the separation process. Our astral body.. usually in perfect vibrational harmony with the physical body.. begins to vibrate at a higher frequency when our physical begins to drift asleep. Now what if there is some sort of interference pattern between two bodies existing upon one another with different vibrations.. My guess would be is that they would interfere, possibly causing the shaking we feel.
An interference pattern, kinda like the Binaural Frequency in a Binaural Beat?
Interesting. :)
....
Of course, there are bodily bio-chemical, electrical and psychological actions & reactions taking place in every (voluntary or involuntary) induction method.
It's like turning on switches on a radio to get another frequency in (more or less clear or distorted or interfered with other "channels"). For me it is us driving a bio-computer or bio-machine that can be switched and operated on to get different results. For example, DMT might cause more separation from the body and thus facilitate the experience, especially during so-called near death experiences. (But it's a facilitating contribution, there are possibly other things, that contribute, too). Similar things apply to other induced states of consciousness with similar or other ways of induction, e.g. by ingesting external drugs (DMT is then an 'internal self-generated drug', so to speak).
The problem is (and it is overlooked quite frequently!) that we should differentiate between the TRIGGER / INDUCTION TOOL on the one hand and the consciousness EXPERIENCE on the other.
The EXPERIENCE is not DMT or any internal/external chemical. The EXPERIENCE is not any drug. The EXPERIENCE is not the induction of a meditative or trance state. All these things help to get it, but the EXPERIENCE is an independent reality we "receive" or "enter" and later "digest" the memories of it by analysing it with / in our brain waking state.
So the thing is: I consider vibrations already being more part of the EXPERIENCE instead of being part of the TRIGGER. Vibrations thus are also already a consequence of my induction activities (affirmations, meditating, visualising, putting myself in trance, etc.). So I think that we do not "induce by vibration" or "induce by releasing vibration-sensation-causing chemicals", but rather indirectly "induce vibrations" when we have them when you actually "induce OBEs".
What makes these vibes so interesting, is that they still "feel" physical because the have a direct interaction with your (physical) body. But does that therefore mean it is chemical? I think they are something really in-between physical and non-physical. It is a border-land - quite literally - when we switch between realities (or bodies). That is why it cannot be (purely) chemical because that would still be too much on the physical side for me. However, they are very real! This is why I cannot agree to Xanth's hypothesis declaring it somehow "unreal". Non-physical things are as real as physical. And those in-between-things as well. :wink:
Of course, as said above, during induction methods, there might also be chemical "switches" be flipped by conscious / psychological action in conjunction with neurological/bio-chemical reactions taking place. So yes! - You might see "vibrations" indirectly caused (also!) by chemical causes, if you like to see it that way. Since we always start out from our physical body when we have and induce these experiences, we naturally use body "chemistry", too.
However, and this is again quite subjectively (but I know I am not the only one that thinks that way), vibes just feel so exlusively "electrically" spreading over the body in waves, that I just cannot imagine it being purely chemical at all. It's just my impression.
Quote from: Xanth on January 17, 2011, 11:21:08We've all "read about" the vibrations... actually, it's probably one of the very first things that a person learns about regarding astral projection! We're told that to project, you need to initiate the "Vibrational State" and then they go on to tell you *EXACTLY* what it's supposed to feel like. *THIS* is the problem.
Have to say that when I first experienced vibrations (approx 14 years ago) I had no idea what was happening to me. I had never investigated OBE or AP before and I never actually projected either, (because I didn't know that I could, or that it was even possible).
I have experienced SP on and off for approximately 23 years, but when the vibrations hit me again for a second time (just about 3 or 4 months ago) I then investigated through the modern wonders of the internet and found you guys! Since then I have only been reading up about the likes of Monroe etc, and it's typical of me that I have not had a fully conscious SP since!!! :x
It is this reason that leads me to believe that I must be an energy of some form, but why it seems to have disappeared in some more experienced people is beyond me. :?
Quote from: daytona955 on January 21, 2011, 06:06:13
Have to say that when I first experienced vibrations (approx 14 years ago) I had no idea what was happening to me. I had never investigated OBE or AP before and I never actually projected either, (because I didn't know that I could, or that it was even possible).
what if.. experienced projectors don't experience the vibrations as frequently, because they know when they are in the right state of consciousness to simply roll out. There would be minimal interaction between the two bodies. The same hypothesis holds through with phasing. When the individual is in the right state, they are instantly transported to their desired location, thus reducing the interaction between two bodies.. just a thought
...
Quote from: Volgerle on January 21, 2011, 05:32:28
However, they are very real! This is why I cannot agree to Xanth's hypothesis declaring it somehow "unreal". Non-physical things are as real as physical. And those in-between-things as well. :wink:
You're confusing what I'm saying.
I'm not saying they're "unreal"... I'm saying that they *could possibly* be a subjective experience. :)
Quote from: Xanth on January 22, 2011, 18:36:27
You're confusing what I'm saying.
I'm not saying they're "unreal"... I'm saying that they *could possibly* be a subjective experience. :)
Of course they are subjective, since they are experienced subjectively and personally. Everything you experience / feel as a person is subjective. Is there any 'objective' experience at all? :wink:
Quote from: Volgerle on January 23, 2011, 10:41:00
Of course they are subjective, since they are experienced subjectively and personally. Everything you experience / feel as a person is subjective. Is there any 'objective' experience at all? :wink:
LoL I had actually typed that exact response out as well... but then deleted it. ;)
Hi I'm djed ; As has already been mentioned, the yogic teachings are 'the stimulation of the chakras causes the kundalini to flow'. There are special meditational techniques for this. What then happens there is a kind of cleansing and a freeing up of the natural life force.
My first natural oobs occured without vibrations, the vibrations came later through practising meditation and yoga.
cheers, djed :-)
Yeah, I think it's safe to say, everyone is different when it comes to the vibes.
I didn't read through this entire threat but just your initial post. I've had hundreds of documented OBE's and rarely ever had any signs of vibrations. I've mostly had buzzing noises and hypnopompic hallucinations if I don't return to my body properly and just "force" my body awake.
I would agree that generally speaking -- much of the idea behind vibrations came from Robert Monroe and that this "inspiration" led many of us to believe in "Vibrations" or the "Vibrational State". The power of thought alone amazes me and it would not surprise me that these thoughts create our own actualization of the vibrations instead of it being a natural phenomena prior to an OBE.
That's my thoughts.
Quote from: ka0s on January 30, 2011, 03:44:53
I didn't read through this entire threat but just your initial post. I've had hundreds of documented OBE's and rarely ever had any signs of vibrations. I've mostly had buzzing noises and hypnopompic hallucinations if I don't return to my body properly and just "force" my body awake.
I would agree that generally speaking -- much of the idea behind vibrations came from Robert Monroe and that this "inspiration" led many of us to believe in "Vibrations" or the "Vibrational State". The power of thought alone amazes me and it would not surprise me that these thoughts create our own actualization of the vibrations instead of it being a natural phenomena prior to an OBE.
That's my thoughts.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/vibrations_a_theory-t32920.0.html;msg271410#msg271410
And, http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/vibrations_a_theory-t32920.0.html;msg271608#msg271608
Quote from: ka0s on January 30, 2011, 03:44:53
I didn't read through this entire threat but just your initial post.
I think you should read through the thread.
I didn't need to read the entire thread to state my opinion --- because it is all relative to interpretation =). CFTraveler, I read your links and I did not know that! It is interesting how far it goes back. I guess I meant "modern day" adventurers likely get the "Vibration" idea from Monroe.
Quote from: ka0s on January 30, 2011, 22:42:01
I didn't need to read the entire thread to state my opinion --- because it is all relative to interpretation =). CFTraveler, I read your links and I did not know that! It is interesting how far it goes back. I guess I meant "modern day" adventurers likely get the "Vibration" idea from Monroe.
I don't think so. I think the vibrations are part of the phenomena which most people experience. I use to get vibrations long before I ever heard of Monroe or OBEs.
BTW, is your name an amateur radio call sign?
I guess I'll have to do some deep self-questioning to figure out why I don't experience them anymore. I don't exactly consider myself an experienced projector... only having experiences once a month or so on average lately.
Perhaps, Phasing really does just bypass that part... I have no other explanation for it really. At least no other explanations yet. :)
Quote from: daytona955 on January 21, 2011, 06:06:13
Have to say that when I first experienced vibrations (approx 14 years ago) I had no idea what was happening to me. I had never investigated OBE or AP before and I never actually projected either, (because I didn't know that I could, or that it was even possible).
I have experienced SP on and off for approximately 23 years, but when the vibrations hit me again for a second time (just about 3 or 4 months ago) I then investigated through the modern wonders of the internet and found you guys! Since then I have only been reading up about the likes of Monroe etc, and it's typical of me that I have not had a fully conscious SP since!!! :x
It is this reason that leads me to believe that I must be an energy of some form, but why it seems to have disappeared in some more experienced people is beyond me. :?
Quote from: Xanth on January 31, 2011, 10:43:07
I guess I'll have to do some deep self-questioning to figure out why I don't experience them anymore.... Phasing really does just bypass that part...
So you actually DID experience them in the beginning? Doesn't this lend weight to the hypothesis of the "learning curve" / "higher energetic efficiency" effect? I think we should not ignore the fact that many projectors first experience them and then it lessens (which is not expectation related - how could it be)?
Well, and maybe the technique of Phasing is exactly that: it is "advanced" OBEing without energy frictions by more skilled (or naturally talented and thus vibrationless-from-the start-) projectors.
Quote from: Volgerle on January 31, 2011, 12:08:37
So you actually DID experience them in the beginning? Doesn't this lend weight to the hypothesis of the "learning curve" / "higher energetic efficiency" effect? I think we should not ignore the fact that many projectors first experience them and then it lessens (which is not expectation related - how could it be)?
Well, and maybe the technique of Phasing is exactly that: it is "advanced" OBEing without energy frictions by more skilled (or naturally talented and thus vibrationless-from-the start-) projectors.
For me personally, I read about the Vibrations long before I actually experienced them myself... so from a personal point of view, I can't really use that as a basis anymore since so many people have experiences that completely contradict that. As for why people who do classical OBE separations experience them at the start and then those experiences diminish over time... is quite strange, and is, I believe, what we're trying to pin down here.
As for Phasing... I really do truly believe it's something that every human being does every single night of their lives when they go to bed and dream... also many people do it consciously terming it a "WILD" (wake induced lucid dream... ie: Robert Bruce calls this a Lucid Dream Projection) and in a slightly lesser degree, "day dreaming". It's because of this that I can't really define it as something "advanced"... to me, it actually seems like the "easier" method by which to perceive "there", but that would just be my opinion. :)
I think people try to complicate the matter by believing it's "advanced" or "special"... when, again, in my opinion, it's really not.
In the end though... your hypothesis is really just as good as anyone elses and we can definitely mark it down in the 'possibly' column. :)
Quote from: ka0s on January 30, 2011, 22:42:01
I didn't need to read the entire thread to state my opinion --- because it is all relative to interpretation =). CFTraveler, I read your links and I did not know that! It is interesting how far it goes back. I guess I meant "modern day" adventurers likely get the "Vibration" idea from Monroe.
But as you can see from many of our reports, many of us got the vibes before we read about it and searching for an explanation is what got us to actually read about them. Except for Xanth and others, who experienced them after reading about them.
It seems to me that if a large segment of the experiencer population has them at least at first, and some of us lose them after cultivation and experience, it should not be considered a self-fulfilling prophecy, instead a genuine phenomenon dependent on the experience, at least at first.
Considering them a case of 'autossugestion' does not serve to explain them, and it makes honest experiencers feel that they have not been taken seriously.
A long time ago I asked a bunch of church ladies about having OBE or OBE dreams, and an astounding amount of them (about twenty percent) admitted having spontaneous OBEs, and all of the experiencers reported vibrations. What is more interesting is that about ten percent more (including the minister) admitted awakening to vibrations (without the OBE). Only about ten percent of them pursued the experience and knew anything about projection, one had read books on it and wanted to learn to do it.
I ended up giving a class on OBE at the church. This was a very openminded group.
ps. I no longer get vibrations, except on the odd occasion when I wake up from a dream or come back from a projection in the middle of the night.
---
Quote from: CFTraveler on January 31, 2011, 12:35:32
I ended up giving a class on OBE at the church. This was a very openminded group.
what a cool church 8-)
Indeed. It was a small church and everyone knew each other.
Xanth, I think the reason you don't feel the vibrations when phasing is, you are synchronizing your energy field with that of that of the Astral at a slower rate. Whereas, people that spontaneously project, go from the physical to the etheric rather rapidly. I know it sounds like a simple enough explanation but, when you consider everything has a natural occuring vibration, it makes perfect sense.
I would have actually said the exact opposite.
People who etherically project do so slower... and Phasing is a more "quick change" method.
Funny how we perceive things differently like that. :)
CFTraveler,
I guess I can not relate because I never got vibrations except until after I read about them, as well. Besides "witnessing" separation, the only "vibes" i would ever get would be upon reentry and it was more like distortions of noises such as buzzing sounds.
"But as you can see from many of our reports, many of us got the vibes before we read about it and searching for an explanation is what got us to actually read about them. Except for Xanth and others, who experienced them after reading about them.
It seems to me that if a large segment of the experiencer population has them at least at first, and some of us lose them after cultivation and experience, it should not be considered a self-fulfilling prophecy, instead a genuine phenomenon dependent on the experience, at least at first.
Considering them a case of 'autossugestion' does not serve to explain them, and it makes honest experiencers feel that they have not been taken seriously.
"
I suppose I don't disagree with you considering the evidence of how many people has had them at first and then started searching or reading about them. I read somewhere at one time about a theory of us being on one "frequency" and that if we were to distort from that frequency we would experience vibrations in that distortion -- possibly leading to another dimension. I have not done extensive research on the subject but I do find it quite interesting. At the end of the day i'm not 100% sure where I fall in the subject because of my lack of experiencing them.
My name is Not from an amateur radio call signal, btw =)
Maybe it has to do with the technique you use? This morning I tried a different technique & experienced intense vibrations like my skull was being electrocuted. I would have never thought that was awesome had I not known what it was. I am not someone who has vibrations so intense, so that was incredible for me. I wasn't expecting that at all.
@ Lexy:
Interesting, I usually tailor my exit to the symptom I am already having- I find that to do an exit technique before symptoms is a waste of time and energy.
@kaos:
QuoteMy name is Not from an amateur radio call signal, btw =)
?
So do you work for Maxwell Smart's enemies? :lol:
Interesting.. Vibrations if you go to the RTZ.
I've never had vibrations in my OBE either and I could also say I never made it to the RTZ. I'm always in some dreamscape even if I phase into my room. There's always something a little off, like finding my mother's furniture in my room. So perhaps I will try to induce them.
Honestly.. my research into all this stuff has been super messy haha. I only got into vibrations when I heard my friend talk about them, he said that they hurt and I was curious about how they felt. So I had a nap and when I woke up, I closed my eyes and then it happened.. I felt electricity go through my body. I didn't know what to do because I hadn't read far enough, so I just laid there in the black with all the wind around me till it was over. I would have never called/expected it vibrations though. Vibrations to me are waves.. but this was electricity :-(
I've experienced waves when I am meditating. They are like cold shivers going down the back of my body. I'd call those vibrations, but probably not the ones described as part of OBE...
OBE vibrations can vary in intensity, from soft flowing waves like the ocean, a strobing back-and forth reminiscent of those old videos where they strobe different positions to make it look like someone is having some sort of seizure, all the way to buzzing, tingling, and, yes, electricity.
QuoteVibrations to me are waves.. but this was electricity
Electricity travels in waves (AC), the buzzier the higher the frequency. That's why high tension wires buzz and hum.
Which goes back to something someone said a long time ago about it possibly being a brain symptom.
Stephen LaBerge's Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, page 110, states something about the vibrations:
"Watch for signs of strange sensations, vibrations, and distortions of your body image. Theses are the harbingers of REM sleep paralysis...
...physical body has a... ...twin, that is, your dream body...
Now imagine yourself embodied in your airy dream body and imagine what it would feel like to float or roll out of your earthbound twin...
Remember that you are in a dream body and that everything around you is a dream thing too."
Apparently LaBerge only believes in dreams and LDs, but not in OBE. Nevertheless, his book is very interesting, when it states that the vibrations are onset of REM sleep.
I wrote this in a post before but I shall repost here.
I talked to a friend about vibrations, he's a graduate working with our nations state research institute. Very open minded with a great understanding about waves and lovely things like quantum physics and the crazy things it does.
Anyway, as he explained, the upper parts of our atmosphere seem to contain 4Hz EM frequency wave, basically 4Hz electromagnetic frequencies cannot escape the earth at all. Interesting thing about the 4Hz wave is (as many of you will already know) is the same frequency our brains use when we reach a Delta wave state (Theta is 4-7, Delta is less than 4). Not only that but it's been registered in all animals and plant life. Another interesting point is that babies brains only emit these 4Hz or below Delta waves, as well as it has also been discovered in continuous attention tasks, such as meditation.
Now should these waves be the connective element between all of us (or perhaps even creating the super-consciousness itself of which we all gain ours from) then what may occur in the early stages of phasing into the astral stages is that as we are trying to connect to that frequency in our internal tuning systems, then you would feel a steady pulse at around 4 pulses per second. The sensation would increase in strength of the pulses until we are making an accurate enough connection to that particular frequency.
As for why it stops or isn't felt at all by some, well, the theory I'm kicking around is that it's like a radio. If you're looking for a station you need to keep tuning the frequency until you find it. At first it soft and distorted, the gets stronger and become much louder, before dropping and settling in to the station. Onc you know what frequency you look at, you can tune straight to it and skip that whole part. I think we go through something similar if we are slowly searching for the frequency that is responsible for connection with the astral. Once we have figured it out (or if we already know it.... somehow) then we phase directly, rather than having to find it each time.
Anyway, my friends been quite helpful in looking into this. I'll post a link once I've written this out properly, but to me it seems a good explanation for a lot of things, not just phasing. These include:
Why babies and young children learn so quickly
Why our eco-system seems to effectively self balance
Why two plants of different species root systems automatically grow away from one another
Anyway, a bit of a long post and I apologize but would really love some feedback and suggestions. Please note though this idea really doesn't preclude the ideas of spirituality regarding the astral plane or the Buddhist shared consciousness concept etc., it reinforces them quite strongly.
TurtleSnake: Interesting theory. I wonder if you're confusing cause and effect here, though, i.e. when the brain is relaxed the neurons fire at slower speeds approaching 4-7Hz, rather than the brain perceives EM radiation in the upper atmosphere. It has been proven that electromagnetic radiation can affect the brain at very close range at at much higher magnitudes (EM helmet, basically), but there's no way the scattered standing waves miles above the earth would have any effect.
If that was true we'd be far more strongly influenced by all the other EM radiation caused by humans in the last 100 years, which appear across the entire spectrum.
Also, babies and young children learn quickly because they have much higher brain plasticity (growing neural connections) than an adult, where the connections are mostly formed already.
Our eco-system "self-balances" due to natural selection, and it isn't always a nice balancing act. There are often cycles of over-breeding followed by mass starvation in the wild (deer, rabbits, wolves, fish, kangaroos, various plants). Sometimes an invasive species arrives on a piece of driftwood and devastates an entire ecology.
I think vibrations are caused by your inner ear and proprioperception disconnecting from your body gradually: for a minute your brain is getting very confusing signals, until it's disconnected entirely and the vibrations stop. That's why sometimes if feels like you're spinning (sense of balance upset) and sometimes your hands or feet seem to be in strange places or at weird angles (proprioperception is wonky).
I don't agree with the op suggestion it's just an expectation that creates it. I didn't get into projection like a lot of people, hearing about it and reading books about it. I was practicing meditation for a few weeks before I started making some break throughs with it. Eventually I started 'ending up at other places' after these feelings of buzzing/vibration in upper body and head. After of few of these experiences where I ended up in other locations... it was only then I started to search what this was and books about it. Which is when I first read the first book by Robert Monroe that not only listed all the pre-projection symptons I experienced but also experiences that were just like mine. It's more than just a byproduct of expectation (at least in my case).
I rarely experience vibrations anymore. It's just a very subtle almost unnoticeable tingling. For me it's the sound I hear which is a high pitched sort of shriek as if someone played a tuning fork in your ear way too close and then once I separate it goes away. I also tend to project from my head and less from my body if that makes sense. Perhaps I leave through my head...?
I generally return feeling really sort of dizzy. It's a bit uncomfortable like a night of drinking. I usually feel dazed and just generally like half in myself. ANyone else get that feeling accompanied by some hot tingling in the head?
Look around google (http://www.google.com/search?q=vibrations+sleep) and you'll find reports of vibrations from people who are not into AP.
Here are a few examples I've collected:
Quote
Every morning i wake up im getting a deep vibration (feels like a motor running inside my body) and at first i thought there was a small earth tremor happening ! It makes the bed shake slightly and my partner can feel it if she holds my arms when its happening. i feel that its centered somewhere in my head. but dissapears after about 30 seconds of waking up !!!! Sometimes it wakes me up and it feels like im having some kind of siezure all over my body and head, even though i dont loose conciousness. On some occasions (like the last few days i cant get to sleep. just as im about to drop of i get a strange feeling in my body, my heart beat goes up and i feel rough !!! this can happen 20-30 times in a night. i can sometimes only manage to get sleep if i take a zopiclone sleeping pill. about 6 weeks ago i went 5 days and 5 nights with no sleep because something in my brain wouldnt let me drop off ! im getting real worried now. Thanks for your help in advance.Dead link (http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2824)
Quote
The length of these feelings used to be about 5-10 secs and are now much longer, sometimes over a minute. I also seem to have unusual dreams associated with this disorder which I never experienced before. I have difficulty recalling the details of the dreams when fully awake. The weird thing is that there is no external tremors, shaking, or vibrating like I'm feeling internally. The feeling is centered in my chest and upper body, nothing in my lower extremities. I continually check my pulse when awake enough and find no rapidness or irregularity with my heartbeat. A year ago I had a heart catheter and was told everything looks good. The only other symptoms I experience are sometimes my top forearm, thumb, and first two fingers go to sleep, depending on which side I sleep. Has anyone else ever experienced this and can offer some help? Doctors have yet to find a solution to the problem.
It cleared up for a few years and then during the mid 90s I had another bout of it. Only this time it was slightly different, more like a feeling that my bed was vibrating, like I was sleeping on top of a fridge. This time I really didn't realise it was me. I thought it was something in the environment - underground vibration from a factory about a mile from here. I called out the Environmental Health Department and they went investigating all the nearby factories, the electricity board and the sewage works.
I have MS with secondary narcolepsy, and I think it is to do with the narcolepsy. I did find it on one of the narcolepsy websites that some narcoleptics get a feeling of vibration inside them.Dead link (http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56686)
Quote
[I think I used the "¥" here to indicate a new post]
Has anyone experienced this? I'm used to times when my heart races and usually tapering off the amitryptiline for a while settles it but this sense of internal vibration at night (or anytime I lie down or relax deeply) is new. It's been going on about a month now and it's weird and disturbing. I wake feeling like Sigourney Weaver in Alien!
I've searched the forum and found someone referencing this last year but I'm still very puzzled. Is this yet another fibro symptom or possible something menopausal as my hubby suggests. It's corresponding with almost daily nose-bleeds and some feverishness. I'm seeing my GP this week and will ask for BP check but any other suggestions very welcome.
I have chronic daily migraine as well as fibro but this vibrating doesn't seem to belong to the migraine or medication.
¥
I had something very similar a few years back. It happened mostly in the middle of the night; I would wake up with it.
It turned out to be an antidepressant I was taking at the time, Elavil, I think. My psychiatrist said it could be "cardio toxic". I stopped taking it, and it hasn't happened since. It scared the heck out of me.
¥
The other, new and more disturbing sensation is this feeling of my internal organs vibrating. The sensation is centred around the solar plexus rather than the heart and is not completely homogenous ie it's not all vibrating at the same speed or rhythym. It has begun to spread into the top of my thighs but generally is within the torso area. It carries on for a while once I'm awake and up but then seems to abate or maybe I'm just not as aware of it while I'm active.
I think my GP is going to think I've flipped when I describe this. I'm not anxious or stressed; pain levels have been average and life is pretty much as usual. Thanks for your input. I'll report back on what the GP says.
¥
As for the internal 'motors' he suggested I take out a patent. He didn't think it could be a fibro symptom but four fibromates on the forums have experienced similar so .....
I'll report back if I come to any tentative conclusions.
¥
I had the vibrating internal thing going on also for 6 weeks, my stomach and entire colon was quivering constantly, I thought my heart was either skipping beats or racing but when I checked my pulse it was normal. I felt like I had swallowed a tunng fork. Still get this on and off in the AM for awhile but goes away shortly after moving around.
¥
Yes, and it is usually, for me, worse when at rest, like at bedtime or very early in the AM, before I am fully awake, like my spine is 'oscillating'. I am pretty used to it now, but when I first got it several years ago, it FREAKED me out.Dead link (http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=101552)
Edit: I tracked down the website where I found these, and it is still full of examples (http://www.google.com/search?q=vibrations+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fbraintalkcommunities.org). I don't know why the URL has changed since I saved those posts.
Old thread I'm sure but I'm new here and just want to put in my 2 cents. LOL.
I get the vibrations head to toe. Sometimes they are super intense to the point of causing real physical pain even afterwards! Sometimes they are more mellow and mild like goosebumps all over.
I can certainly say that I have never had expectations of feeling vibrations. In fact like another post I read, I thought my first experience was an alien or demon attack! I had never even heard of OBE's before let alone vibrations.
One thing is that I can't tell the difference between vibrations. For instance, I was once at the In-N-Out Burger Drive-thru and I just got this sudden realization that there was a spirit in the parking lot. I was fully awake ordering dinner mind you when suddenly it felt as though the spirit had entered the car with me! I felt the same vibrations running head to toe thoughout my body and was certainly not having an OBE while in the drive thru. It scared me out of my mind. I think that some people, like myself, might just be more sensitive to feeling the vibrations....? :|
So yeah... lately I've been watching a lot on Tom Campbell and by extension, his partner in crime, Dennis Mennerich. They have BOTH mentioned now that back in the 70's when they were doing their explorer work with Monroe that they found that the Vibrations were entirely Physiological in existing. They found that they could measure them and even predict the exact onset of them.
I found that very interesting.
Hello Xanth. As for me, I had very substantial experiences with vibrational state and probably a hundred or so OBEs before I even heard of Robert Monroe or read anything. I told a friend about it many years ago, and then he told me that I should read some books by Monroe. That was in the early 80's.
But, I do tend to agree that expectations perhaps play a part for many folks. But, I think it is a point of focus. If one looks for the vibrations, one will probably feel them.
I tend to think that at the beginning folks experiences are much involving the vibrational state in a similar manner to sitting outside an strange doorway. Initially, the doorway will perhaps be very interesting. "What is this strange thing?" But, once one learns to step thru the door, one likely does not dwell as much on the vibrational state. But, i think one could. However, I also think that we tend to have limited time in that state. So, unless there is a real purpose to dealing with that state, I expect one will slip thru more quickly.
Anyway, as an FYI, I also tend to think that perhaps the vibrational state relates to sensationsof so called chi. I now feel that much of the time, even in the waking state. It is more intense when in a sleeping state, and a bit diffrent. But, it is very much the same. So, I think perhaps feelign vibrations is a bit similar to just noticing onesself too. Just some thoughts from my side too. I do not read too much so this is just based on my experience really.
Thanks,
I always supposed the vibrations had something to do with passing into a sleep paralysis state; we are not really meant to be awake for that, so maybe they are a sort of nerve-firing that happens just prior to that state?
Lately I tend to relate vibrations with the flow of Kundalini energy. It can also be an intense flow of Prana (Chi). The symptoms are similar, if you read about the sensations related to kundalini flow, you will notice that.
Once the Kundalini flow is consistent and strong, you are always in Astral even while awake. It becomes a matter of shifting the focus. You are aware of both worlds.
There are types of meditations to stimulate this energy and these amusingly sound a lot similar to the techniques for inducing vibrations.
Quote from: Psan on March 27, 2011, 14:25:37
Lately I tend to relate vibrations with the flow of Kundalini energy. It can also be an intense flow of Prana (Chi). The symptoms are similar, if you read about the sensations related to kundalini flow, you will notice that.
Once the Kundalini flow is consistent and strong, you are always in Astral even while awake. It becomes a matter of shifting the focus. You are aware of both worlds.
There are types of meditations to stimulate this energy and these amusingly sound a lot similar to the techniques for inducing vibrations.
Whatever it is, as per the Monroe explorer team, it was something that they could physically measure with their devices and predict the on-set of.
All mystical/metaphysical beliefs aside, that's the part that's interesting to me.
You cannot measure the mental states by physical instruments, by definition these are non physical but you can measure the physiological changes these states produce such as EEG/ECG and breathing/skin conduction/temperature etc.
I guess they were able to do that and correlate with (pre)OBE states.
Quote from: Psan on March 29, 2011, 11:27:35
You cannot measure the mental states by physical instruments, by definition these are non physical but you can measure the physiological changes these states produce such as EEG/ECG and breathing/skin conduction/temperature etc.
I guess they were able to do that and correlate with (pre)OBE states.
Exactly. :)
They were, apparently, quite thorough in their testing and recording.
I obe almost every night. Multple Xs in one night. A matter a fact, I thought I was the only weirdo out there. Im ecstatic that they have a name for this and there's forums like this out there. I just came aware of books and sites for this and im pumped to hear peoples stories. I know I got lots to tell.
My theory on what those vibrations are- its when your brain releases the chemical that paralyzes the body for sleep. It also shuts your brain down to from everything going on around you so u can sleep.
(best way for me to describe it is the sound you hear n feel when you yawn, just intensify that Xs a few hundred thousand and thats the noise.)
Trick is to be aware of it, dont get scared when its happening and youl be obe'n in no time. With a little practice n technique you can trigger it easily.
At least thats my opinion on what the screaming chaos you call the vibration stage is, cause when I was younger it would sometimes happen unintentionally - And when the the noise came I would freak in horror, and Id try to move and scream, and its veryvery hard to do that. -eventually though I would snap out of it. I remember I would classify it as a nightmare or the beginning of one.
Till the day I confronted it, I let it ride its course and...