Well, I have had yet another peculiar experience; after 20 minutes of deep relaxation and staring into the space before my eyes, I began to have the sensation of a buzzing, similar to an electric massager, over my upper-most chest, in about the region the throat-chakra is said to reside; the feeling was about 1 foot in dimameter, and was acute, until it subisded minutes later.
From this information, can anyone make a statement? "Vibrations" was my first guess, but I cannot make any conclusions; if this was the case, how would I procede form there? I tried diligently to maintain focus for an "exit", but none was forthcoming.....
Just keep trying.
Stillwater,
Just imagine yourself rolling in circles inside your body and roll off onto the floor. This has helped a lot for me in the past, but the downfall is that little bit of 'skepticism' am I really falling onto the floor in the astral or physical.
Sounds like you are getting close but need just to relax, enjoy, and take it to the next step.
Tvos
Quote from: the voice of silenceStillwater,
Just imagine yourself rolling in circles inside your body and roll off onto the floor. This has helped a lot for me in the past, but the downfall is that little bit of 'skepticism' am I really falling onto the floor in the astral or physical.
Sounds like you are getting close but need just to relax, enjoy, and take it to the next step.
Tvos
Weird almost every time I try and fall asleep laying on my back I get this sort of head rush and I feel like im falling. Which is sort of insane because my matress is on the floor and there is no place to "fall too"
I dont think it has anything to do with OBE, I think too much exercise and unhealthy food isn't a good balance lol.
and hope u all love the latality of the lately late reply which is sort of... late
have fun
cya later :roll:
Pepto_bismol,
Its easy to fall asleep then awakening into the trance state. Its not tough to accomplish and can happen. I found out by accident that I was entering this state after a good 1/2yr of projecting. It became easy for me to acknowledge this.
I've tried this a few times and it actually seems to work. I was talking with Mendel earlier and suggested to him about the alarm clock technique. This has already been addressed in the forums but as a refresher.
1. Set your alarm clock to go over every half hour
2. When you wake up to turn off the clock, go back to sleep with the feelings of spinning or rolling around. This is the prime-time to image this because your body is physically tired. If you fall back to sleep, don't worry you know that every 1/2hr you will be reminded to wake up by the alarm. (Reinforcement you could say)
3. The trick here is that your 'mind' will know that every half hour to wake up because of the alarm. Internally, you will find yourself waking up into the trance state instead of physically.
Hope this clarifies and helps.
Tvos
Quote from: StillwaterWell, I have had yet another peculiar experience; after 20 minutes of deep relaxation and staring into the space before my eyes, I began to have the sensation of a buzzing, similar to an electric massager, over my upper-most chest, in about the region the throat-chakra is said to reside; the feeling was about 1 foot in dimameter, and was acute, until it subisded minutes later.
From this information, can anyone make a statement? "Vibrations" was my first guess, but I cannot make any conclusions; if this was the case, how would I procede form there? I tried diligently to maintain focus for an "exit", but none was forthcoming.....
I would get similar sensations too, they happen on their own upon going to sleep, i dont know what it is. I have been able to use the sensations to elicit a projection. If the sensations are already not intense then i focus on intensifying them as much as possible. Mentally some kind of momentum is created by intensifying the sensations until they will spread to the whole body at which point things become automatic and "out" you go.
Maybe try following the sensations you are getting. Try not to resist the actions you may be feeling if you are at all. follow, watch and intensify.
vibrations is just your bodys feelings turning off so u can dream. AP is not real. lucid dreaming is. vibrations are a step in sleep paralysis which happen everynight without you knowing it so you can dream without moving your real body. get a clue guys no offense
www.dreamviews.com
Jaydawg,
I agree with you in thinking that the vibrations arnt too glamorus and one should be weary of assigning some kind of higher value to them, it very well could be a bunch of synapse left with nothing to do, not a very exciting explaination. The thing is about this step in the sleep cycle is that the vibes can be seen as a ready made indicator for impending(dream/ap/oobe whatever you want to call it) activity. It doesnt really matter what the person believes the vibes are as long as it serves a function its ok in my book.
Tvos, I'v heard that alarm clock suggestion a few times... the question for me is, do you lose much sleep, if any?
Jay, I dunno man, it's just something you kinda have to experience first. In a way AP is pretty much the same as lucid dreaming Except for the fact that you are aware of the dream and/or your surroundings so you are in a definitive control. There are just so many terms and descriptions so people just say AP--IMO
I have neither felt any vibrations while projecting nor have I heard any sounds. Actually I take that back, on my first one I did, I think because I heard so much on the subject, that I just expected it. Although vibrations do occur at times, some people like use this as a tool to focus on their projection. Do whatever feels good to you..thats your best bet at geting somewhere.
i feel vibrations and see them when i try a wild. a wild is a teqnique used to get a lucid dream while awake.
and ummm u said the difference is that in an AP u are aware and awake? well um that is called a lucid dream. lets not turn to superstition here. get real guys.
Vvid1012,
No, I really don't lose any sleep when I experiment with the alarm clock method. It can a difficult method (IMO) to work with especially if you're trying to project. You'll either give into sleep and turn the alarm clock off or be in the right frame of mind for conditioning to allow it to work.
This is nothing more then waking up in the morning hours to go to bathroom and then back to bed with the intent and desire to project.
Last night few nights I tried the alarm clock experiment and completely failed. Because of the geographic change my bed is now in my house and had reduced sleep.
It can work under the right conditions.
Tvos
I wouldn't be so negative and dictatory Jay Dawg.
We're all here to share information and learn from each other. Not disregard and flat line people.
It would seem the difference they are trying to make between AP/OBE and Lucid Dreaming is the control factor. AP/OBE is considered a 'conscious' exit, whereby a person relaxes to a state permissive of exiting without having to go to sleep first, whereas a Lucid Dream is where you enter a dream either fully aware from the go, or attain a level of awareness at some later stage in the dream and take control. WILDs take Lucid Dreaming a step closer to OBE and they may actually be the same thing depending on who's arguing the point.
But regardless of that, i wouldn't go around posting as if your the lord and master of all things astral.
"Get a clue guys"
"Get a grip guys"
Go easy Jay Dawg.
Jay Dawg,
I agree with Guthwulf and what he had to say about astral projection vs. lucid dreaming. I believe when you become conscious within the dream you're out of body. Just a month ago I became lucid in the dream and you can instantly tell the shift in conscious level of awareness.
We are here to share information, help one another and not put each other down for their beliefs. So relax and enjoy the conversations, if not then
Read up on my astral projection card verification that I experienced last week: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19831 Maybe this will help you with your own perceptions if its real or not.
Give the experiment a try or choose your own tests. Its a
500 to 1 shot that I nailed on the first attempt with the card verification.
This is not the first time I had verifications, but this was the BIG ONE!
Tvos
ive had lucid dreams where i am completely consciously aware like right now. i knew it was a dream and that i was wide awake in it. so why would i think its spiritual?
i cant find the link on dreamviews.com but trhre was a thread about astral projection and a dude had a ton of examples how he did what he was supposed to do to get an OBE and did a number of tests like reading car plates outside his house and they were different in the morning. another person met up with him and said he was astral travelling with him too and so he asked for an e mail address and all he said was blabbering words. a ton of other stuff that just seems like obes are just REALLY high level lucid dreams thats all. the highest level possible. remember its all in your head even if it seems like your above your body. you know it is possible to have a DREAM about seeing your real life body. its not that big of a stretch really
Jay Dawg,
I like your approach and skepticism on the issue and I respect that. Its always good to have a alternate view. Please don't take this as I'm attacking you or putting you down.
Although, you can't tell someone that has had a NDE (Near Death Experience) and had flat lined for 5-10mins that were dreaming and were able to verify the obe. There have been millions of reports on the subject that closely falls in align with OBE.
Just last week I was able to get VERY close to a 500 to 1 card experiment with two suits matching and a mix up between king and jack. My brother experienced a verification projection premonition many moons ago. He found himself in the front room answering the door out of body and it was the postman. The next day, my brother went to the door without thinking and the postman was there. Dressed EXACTLY to detail and the kicker of it all was that the postman wasn't the regular that usually comes by everyday. It was the postman that my brother saw in the projection... Please kindly explain that!
Have you ever tested targets, experiments while lucid? Have you kept your notes, journals and scientific data that leads you to conclusion that all these 8,000 members on this site are crazy? Btw: How long have you been active in lucid dreaming? How many experiences?
I have the proof - now show me yours!!
Tvos
Quote from: the voice of silenceJay Dawg,
I like your approach and skepticism on the issue and I respect that. Its always good to have a alternate view. Please don't take this as I'm attacking you or putting you down.
Although, you can't tell someone that has had a NDE (Near Death Experience) and had flat lined for 5-10mins that were dreaming and were able to verify the obe. There have been millions of reports on the subject that closely falls in align with OBE.
Just last week I was able to get VERY close to a 500 to 1 card experiment with two suits matching and a mix up between king and jack. My brother experienced a verification projection premonition many moons ago. He found himself in the front room answering the door out of body and it was the postman. The next day, my brother went to the door without thinking and the postman was there. Dressed EXACTLY to detail and the kicker of it all was that the postman wasn't the regular that usually comes by everyday. It was the postman that my brother saw in the projection... Please kindly explain that!
Have you ever tested targets, experiments while lucid? Have you kept your notes, journals and scientific data that leads you to conclusion that all these 8,000 members on this site are crazy? Btw: How long have you been active in lucid dreaming? How many experiences?
I have the proof - now show me yours!!
Tvos
i believe if someone flatlines for 10 minutes they could very well just be dreaming. ive heard a ton of stuff on flat lined obe'ers which at the time had me convinced, until i studied LDing. i dont get it your brother had an OBE of going to the door and seeing an OBE poastman? that makes no sense. so are u saying u left out a playing card and saw what it really was? cuz it sounds like it didnt work. did it?
i will say one thing in your support, i had a VERY high level lucid in which i was in my bathroom and my vision started to fade white and so i did dream spinning and then regained consciousness again. it only worked for a while but i did feel myself float backwards through the wall into my body into SP where i thought i was awake but could see just couldnt move for a few seconds until my body woke up. at the time i thought it was OBE but how could it be? i realize it is possible but am still sceptic considering all ive read on OBEs having shocking similarities to LDing along with its symptoms.
this girl on dreamviews keeps saying she leaves a book out and reads it in obe's but i doubt her
Jay Dawg,
Here's some excellent reading material on NDE and what these people have went through. I've read quite a bit of the testimonies and the ones that really stick out are the true verified scientific verifications.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research11.html
Read the part on Pam Reynolds and especially Dr.Charles Tart.
And another Rev. George Rodonaia.
Lommel noted that only 10 seconds after the heart stops beating, the electroencephalogram goes dead. At this point, there is no activity in the brain cortex and the brain cannot manufacture visions. Within 10 minutes, brain stem activity ceases and irreparable brain damage can occur.
Read on more of the site, I think you'll learn a lot and might help you understand the differences.
About my experiment its rather pretty simple. I was able to verify two playing cards with two different suits, along with the factor of the king and jack getting them mixed up. The other card was a 2 and I saw a 8. No biggie, but to get the suits correct and the mix-up between the king/jack which are identical - its a 500 to 1 attempt to get this accuracy.
My brother had a astral projection experience the day before he met the mailman at the door. It was the same mailman in the astral, detailed to the 'T'. This mailman was not our regular that came around everyday.
All I can say is run your own tests, experiments and see if you're able to produce viable results. So far, you've not showed me anything to challenge except what you 'hear'. Show me, don't tell me!
Tvos
i read alot on that link there. thanks for that . but u see the link did what it was meant to do. change my mind. that is why i am sceptic. ive already seen NDEs on that so called christian channel before on tv before. at the time i was scared senseless. but hell is the impossiblity of reason and if it exsists then god doesnt.
aside from that. those are some interesting stories but i wasnt there and neither were you. the only thing that interests me is the idea of being VERY aware and at the same time having no brain activity, thats cool. seems like evidence to me. that feeling of knowing you are not your body is one ive felt many times. ive gotten so high i thought i was gonna die cuz it felt so different and energetic in my mind and body than my normal consciousness. and at the time i remember thinking to myself how wierd my physical body looked and seemed, and how things we do and what we are really arent us. like a feeling of being my spirit inside of my body. ever since i started smoking herb i have a constant feeling of being disconnected like i am not me likei am inside me. especially looking in a mirror. we all are the same its just not all of us have the same spiritual awareness... i guess
but if that is true then that would mean the spirit is somehow connected to the brain while we are conscious? if so then yes drugs would be a means of feeling or using the spirit in an abnormal way.
thanks for the link but i still am aware that the mind is very powerful
Jay Dawg,
Whats interesting is that these reports from the site talk disconnection entirely for longer then 10minutes and pronounced dead with some incredible validation to the experiences.
Its true that you visit a site like that and you're expected to have a change of mind. Its more a less to balance out obe and ld. The only true authentic method of proof is to experience this yourself.
All I can really say is that conduct experiments in the astral that you can bring back to the physical as proof for yourself. I think that being skeptic will narrow your verifications and not opening up possibilities. Also, smoking pot will just diminish your experiences.
What experiments have you tested in the dream to say there's no astral? Do you keep a record account of your journals? Also, where are you from and your age?
Tvos
florida. 20.
i keep a dream journal to keep my recall up yeah. i havnt tried the deck of cards test yet though. like i said i might have had an astral travel before. the one i said about floating backwards through a wall and into my body into SP. another lucid dream i had i was shooting aliens like in halo and once i realized it was a dream i floated back to my body and went into sp and woke up again.
but u see my point? how was i shooting aliens in the astral? i mean its got to be possible to dream about floating back to your body. although it is a big coincidence. heh
i admit i should give the astral some tests. what do you suggest i do
This is a link that may help you to clarify your somewhat obstinate position on OBE/AP being "a lie". And it will further explain the point i was trying to make earlier about the difference between the two.
http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/chat-forum/viewTopic.jsp?t=lucid-versus-obe
This comes from a master thread of:
http://www.saltcube.com/obe-guide/
Hope this helps...
yeah im sorry that didnt clear up anything for me. all it said was if u go from conscious into dream state is it obe. and thats simply not true. a wild has nothing to do with obe.
most of my normal dreams i am completly aware of my body and my self while i dream. and i know its just a dream.
so those are the only two things that he can say that makes obe and lding different? thats kinda weak. i honestly thought it would have something i didnt already know. but thanks for trying.
phasing? all it said was to imagine a doorway and then open it. yeah thats called hypnogogic imagery. how in the hell is anyone gonna say what we see in our imagination has anything to do with spiritually teveling? are u guys insane? come on please
oh whats primary focus 2
focus 2 is apart of Frank's model of consciouness. Many people use it to refer to where they are located. Frank's model also works out with Mr. Monroe's model fairly well. I would say you ought to read some of either Robert Monroe's books or check out some of Frank's posts in the FAQ and in the permanent topics area. But you're right it's hard to give you something tangable to say that aping, obeing, or phasing is something real... I think that's why people that have found it to be true for themselves ask others to try to find out for themselves and not just believe what has been said. Anyhow more so Focus 2 is the area where your imagination, your dreaming and other related things all happen, this would also be where your lucid dreams happen. There may be more to it as I can't say I know too much about what all of the focuses completely encompass. But that's the general idea. anyone else that can add more please do.
James
Jay Dawg,
Those are two real good explanation difference between lucid dream and astral projection. However, this is also something you really need to search for yourself within to determine if its real or not.
Read up on monroe, bruce and the others as well and form your own conclusions. The best way to go about proving this to be real or not, start conducting tests like the card experiment. When you perform the card experiment and able to retrieve the info. make sure when you come back write down the results first before looking at the cards.
Hope this helps.
Tvos
I agree.