What am I doing wrong?!

[Steel Hawk]

Sounds like your making great progress!

The key is patience. First off Out-of-Body experiences and Astral Projection are (recently) different things. OBE is where you enter the RTZ (Real Time Zone) and are basically like a ghost on the physical plane. Which is what most people do. Astral Projection or Astral Phasing involves different techniques and takes the projector to a higher realm than the physical plane.

I think your trying to have an OBE, and you seem pretty close. When you get vibrations you are 90% of the way to having an OBE.

Usually it takes one month all the way up to one year depending on the dedication and natural talent the would be projector posesses.

I wouldn't focus on the Brainwave Generator or any bineral sounds to induce an OBE. They can be helpful for learning the state of mind it requires, but you need to develop core skills as well.

For most people it doesn't happen over night. In my opinion the quickest way to have an OBE is to get familiar with the hypnogenic state. This is where your in borderline state, drifting between unconciousness and conciousness. You can get to this state by holding your arm up with your elbow on your bed as you fall asleep. Try to fall asleep but try to kept your arm raised.

This will get you to the state of mind where OBE's occur naturally. This is the state you need to be in to OBE. I (and others) have found that waking up a few hours before you normally do a good way to help induce OBEs. Wake up a few hours early, then go back to your bed, relax, get into a trance, feel the vibrations, and make sure to exteriorize your conciousness.

Read books, buy Astral Dynamics, I have a library full of books related to OBE's and Astral Projection. Astral Dynamics is to current date the most valuable resource and would be projector could own. Trust me.

At the very least read the treatise by R.B. on this site.

Good luck!

[jc84corvette]

Hey Steel Hawk you answered some of my questions. Does your arm fall down after a wile or...?

[Claw]

Wow.. Hawk.  You were very helpful!  Thank you very much.  I've been reading the Treatises and I'm ditching Brainwave Generator.  I think the ROPE technique will help me achieve an OBE... But for now, I'll practice entering a trance.  Any other pointers is greatly appreciated!  Again, thank you very much!

[Tolvor]

In theory when you fall asleep your forearm should relax completely and should collapse forward onto the bed, waking you up just enough to use the hypnogogic state.

It can be a little tricky though.  For one, it will take you a lot longer to fall asleep the first couple of times that you try it.  Secondly, the arm tends not to cooperate with your intentions.  As you get closer and closer to sleep your arm will tend to hand at a leaning angle, sort of half-mast, and thus when you fall asleep it will hit the bed from a short distance, and softly, and not wake you up.  Third, even if you do everything right, if your subconcious doesn't feel like cooperating it won't work.  If you are too sleepy, worried, or tense it simply won't work.  The best way to proceed if this happens is to make sure you have gotten plenty of sleep the night before and avoid any stimulant long before you go to bed.  I used to be able to drink *liters* of caffine soda before bed without problem, but I couldn't remember dreams or hit the hypnogogic state till I cut it out after 6pm.

HTH

[Steel Hawk]

Tolvor, brilliant your absolutely right.

Claw, that sounds like a plan! Already I think you have an head start on most beginning projectors. You said that your "body vibrated", if this means you felt this electrical energy, vibrating your entire body then you are SO close to projection!

Trances can be tricky, meaning that your not always "deep" enough into the trance. There's different layers, or levels to being in a trance. You can sometimes just feel the conscious mind going down another level. Like right now for me, I'm listening to Hemi-Sync. I can feel my mind shift to a different level of reality.

It can be hard but what you want to do is get back to the place you were when using Brainwave Generator. The place where the vibrations came. From what I've read (way too darn much) you need the following conditions (all of them) to project. Technically you don't always need the below, but it is ideal.

Steel Hawk's Rules on Projection Requirements

1. Deep Physical Relaxation

This means tensing *ALL* your muscles (off and on at different intensities) for about 5 minutes. Followed by stretching for about 10 to 15 minutes.

Exception(s) [1]: You are mental exhausted due to sleep deprivation. If you can hold on long enough sometimes you'll just fall right into a trance followed (hopefully) by vibrations.

Adverse Effect(s) if not followed [1]: If not properly relaxed it is possible the projector will not be able to enter a trance properly without the muscles fully relaxed. Also, if the projector does achieve the separation state discomfort or pain could be felt in certain errors of the body during projection. This could possibly make the projector "stuck" on an non-relaxed leg, arm, etc.


2. A Projection Technique

Exteriorize Consciousness as some call it. All but obsessed over this is an rarely mentioned as "Exteriorize the Consciousness" but an important detail. Techniques such as ROPE employ (and add on to) this method as to others. You have to imagine (not visualize) feeling yourself (not your astral body but you!) 2 feet or so away from your body. If that's too easy employ the ROPE technique or similar and create separation pressure on your astral body.

Exception(s) [2]: None.

Adverse Effect(s) if not followed [2]: Not using a projection technique you will have a greater reduced chance of triggering the projection reflex (which sends you OBE). So basically if you don't use a technique of some sort you'll get the trance, the vibes, then nothing. Unless your lucky like some and your body just naturally comes out. (Usually due to higher energy in the chakras).


3. Blank Mind - Focused Mind (Mind awake / Body asleep)

You must have a blank mind to achieve a trance and then vibrations. Meaning blank from verbal thought. Thinking in pictures is okay, as long as you don't get too carried away. It's weird... as you go further in the trance without verbal thought you see images as thoughts. Well at least I do. Thinking dream thoughts is okay but don't fall asleep.

As the vibrations come (wait till there solid 4-6 seconds I would say) then Focus Mind comes into use. You have to do a projection technique here. If the vibrations are strong enough (meaning I'm in a deep trance) I'll just imagine a nice floating feeling lifting me up like a feather or cloud. You know, floating on a cloud and all that.

Exception(s) [3]: It is possible for some people not to use a projection technique and naturally project. Also some people may find it impossible to project when trying to use a technique and just keep their mind blink through the vibrations and project. However, the opposite for this is also true. Live and learn.

Adverse Effect(s) if not followed [3]: Well you'll be lucky to make it into a trance, but don't count on getting those vibrations till your clear. You can still think feeling yourself out of your body, but no verbal thoughts!

And that's it. (whew!) For most people it takes 1-3 months (on average). It's definitely worth it and not what you'll probably be expecting. And if you do start to come out of your body you'll probably freak out like most people and ruin it for that night.

Just the hard truth. I didn't expect that I would actually think my physical body was floating like a ghost levitating me off my bed when it was just my astral body. But it feels soooo real. Or that my heart felt like it was beating 10 times a second when it was just my chakra. Or that I would hear "astral noise" of people talking or voices. I freaked out about 3 times before I gained enough mental discipline to handle the fear of it. And this is for someone that does 140mph down the interstate to feel alive, seriously I thought I was the shiznit not afraid of anything. Talk about an ego buster.

So much work, so much to learn... but it's worth it. The feeling of bliss that I get when I come out of my body. People take drugs to get this divine feeling. But we can do it with our minds! And with more power than a drug could ever do. It's just amazing, such knowledge yet so little believers. I luv it! [] Reminds me of the Internet when it first started. Anyway. Sorry if I rambled on. Last point though, the most important thing is dedication and patience. You have to be willing to tell yourself if it takes me 10 years I'll keep going as long as I'm making some progress. Don't burn yourself out on it.

Other theories that may or may not help:

North It is believed that laying with the top of your head pointing directly north that it will make it more probable that you will project. There's a post on this so I won't go any farther in it.

Angelite is blue stoned that is said to have effects on making it easier to OBE. I'm experimenting with the validity of this on my own.

Incense may be used to help create a trigger for the mind to OBE. If it is used only burn that type of incense when you are attempting an OBE. So when you burn incense in the future your subconscious will associate that with OBEs.

Moon phase This is a bit less orthodox, a little less new agey, and more of an old school occult belief. It was said that if the moon was full it was easier to project. Also this in accordance with different positioning of the earths perspective to the stars it could create positive or negative effects on the success of projecting.

Drugs Not recommended. (DMT, Ketamine, do at your own risk)

Bineural Beats. Good for getting to know what different states of consciousness feel like. Also a last ditch effort to OBE.

Also to more energy you raise the more powerful / vivid experience it will be.

Theres tons more, it's sick. Also try to keep your first projection about 20 seconds. Not too longer or you'll forget it (most likely at first).

S

[clandestino]

Hi there Claw.

Yes, it seems that there are 1000's of ways to project....but every time you try any of them, it seems impossible.

But it is not impossible - just pretty hard for most people !

Here are my pointers... Bear in mind that I've only conciously projected a few times.

1) Your ability to project is a function of your willingness to believe. As you lie back in an attempt to project, don't doubt your own ability. I believe that this, along with fear, is the main thing holding 99% of people back.

2) Get deeply relaxed, to the point where you are barely aware of your physical body. This is also very tricky in practice, and is linked to point (1).

3)Be prepared to practise. ! Some people are lucky - they project regularly, and often at will. But this isn't the case for most...I have been practising for years.

Here's a few further tips :
a) Maintain an interest in the subject (this forum is an excellent tool).
b) Try and keep a "dream diary".
c) Keep fit - after a good work-out, your muscles find it easier to relax.
d) Try interrupting your sleep patterns to practise every now and then.
e) don't give up !!

Mark

[Claw]

Thank you, all. You all inspired me.  I've tried to OBE or Project 7 times in 2 days.. I figured I could OBE by now.. But it seems a lot of people take a month or two.  That's kind of annoying, but I'm willing to overcome that.  I've tried the ROPE method, and I had trouble concentrating completely on pulling myself.  Next time I try (which will be in about 10 minutes), I'll try to relax more, until I feel heavy and paralyzed... Then I'll use that "float out of body" thing.  Hope it works!  And thanks again.  You're time is greatly appreciated, and maybe, if I become experienced, I'll be able to do the same for other people.

[dkj400]

quote:For most people it doesn't happen over night. In my opinion the quickest way to have an OBE is to get familiar with the hypnogenic state. This is where your in borderline state, drifting between unconciousness and conciousness. You can get to this state by holding your arm up with your elbow on your bed as you fall asleep. Try to fall asleep but try to kept your arm raised.

What are you supposed to do when you reach that state?

[Tolvor]

What are you supposed to do when you get the hypnogogic state?

1)  Enjoy it.  It feels very pleasant and I don't mind at all the condition
2)  Analyze it.  Be able to recognize it.  This is what you are aiming at during your regular OBE/AP attempts.  Hypnogogic should be a nice big landmark on your journey inward.
3)  Maintain it.  This is tricky and crucial.  Maintain the borderline between awake and asleep.  It's harder than it sounds.  Many people (including me) start getting excited and lose focus when interesting things start to happen during a normal OBE/AP attempt.  If you don't have enough exposure, you will blow it by either getting too excited, think too much (in either case becoming awake), or get bored and fall asleep.
4)  Deepen it.  Hypnogogic is not nearly deep enough for OBE/AP.  It is a good beginning, and being able to start there definately saves you a couple of steps.
5)  Power it up.  Start working on your energy centers.  It can't hurt and it gives your mind something quiet to do.  Fingers.  Toes.  Fingers to arm.  Toes to foot.  Arm to chest.  Feet to legs to solar plexus.  Full strokes from fingers to chest, toes to belly, and from the toes to the head.  If you are very very lucky you'll get a strong buzz.

But it shouldn't be so complicated.  At least enjoy it.  Making it over-complicated is like going to Disneyland to do crowd management studies, demographic targeting campaigns, and service utilization analysis.  You would be missing the forest for the trees.

[dkj400]

So I should stimulate/open the Chakras and I should automatically get vibrations without any exit techniques?

[Tolvor]

quote:Originally posted by dkj400

So I should stimulate/open the Chakras and I should automatically get vibrations without any exit techniques?

Um...  not quite.  It doesn't matter whether or not you stimulate your chakras for vibrations to occur.  I get light vibrations merely by lying down.  Exit techniques can be tried anytime, usually after strong vibration or heavy buzz, and again doesn't have much to do with chakras.  And the frustrating thing is that there is no 'automatically' to it, sometimes no matter what you do with your chakras you won't get your vibrations, and you just can't get anywhere close to hypnogogic.

Chakras merely raise your energy level, greatly increasing your chances of having enough energy to successfully exit.  For my first time I would be overjoyed on a complete exit, low energy or high.  I'd be happy with a distinct partial so that I'd know I was making progress.  I'd even be happy with seeing my astral hands that I'm using with my astral sight.  Chakras merely increase your chances.  I like them because they give the mind something constructive to do.  Instead of trying to kill all thoughts, I merely have to concentrate on a knuckle, circling and circling, back and forth, up the limb.  Trying to split the mind to tackle both limbs (either both arm or both legs) takes all the brainpower that I have.  Running the astral hands up one limb is easy.  The chakra concentration keeps the annoying thoughts away ('I wonder how much time has passed' 'Should I switch to a different technique' '(Yawn)' 'My legs feel like they need more attention').

What I'm trying to say is chakra development is sort of doing warm-up exercises before a sports game.  Not doing your exercises doesn't mean you'll fail, but you'll definately not be as ready and able as you would be if you had.

[Claw]

I get better results if I'm tired, right?  Because today, when I woke up, I went back to sleep.  I decided to try to Project an OBE in my tired state.  I did the ROPE technique (I was already in a body trance) and I came closer than I ever did before.  I guess my brain was in Theta.  I came so close, but something made me open my eyes.  I forgot what, though.

[dkj400]

quote:I get better results if I'm tired, right?

Yes, because your brainwaves are lowered and you are in the Theta or whatever stage.

[omega]

Hi umm if i would have to guess 2 percent of the people project within the first week some people can do it and some people lie about it. It took me 9 months to figure it out and i am still refining things to make it easier.[8D]  If i would make a percentage chart it would look like this..

37% Relaxation
20% Breathing
15% Method
20% Confidence
8% Research, Studying

This is what i would come up with the most important would be relaxation then breathing, confidence, Method, and lastley the reserch and studying. You may ask why i put Reserch and studying on this chart but it does play a good part for reaching your goal just having a little heads up on what will happen or what to expect.

You do not have to have a method to project you just have to wait to your in the Trance state with what i call the "short-dreams" and try to grab one of the dreams and take controll most of the time if you do grab ahold of a dream it will fling on out of your body.

If you have any questions just ask Claw

[Claw]

I see.  I was focusing way too much on the exit techniques..  I'll think about it.  9 months?  Wow... I thought I was so close, too.  I know that I am close, because there's a point when you feel your hands are floating above your body, and your heart beats extremely hard... But I've tried to project about 12 times in 3 days.  Each time I get closer.. some more closer than others.  I was hoping it would only take a week.. Maybe it will. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones. I better be.. No, infact, I will be.  Confidence is my grump :]

[dkj400]

quote:Confidence is my grump :]

*Claps*

[Claw]

I've heard of a half-dozen ways to achieve Astral Projection... so far I tried Brainwave Generator and Deep Mind 4... That sort of worked.. My body vibrated and my eyes rolled back as if I were entering a dream.. But I didn't actually get an OBE.  I also listened to an mp3 file about how to Astral Project.  It was from the site.  It's the one where you're supposed to walk around your kitchen, noticing things with new eyes.  Then you meditate on it, and in your mind, you feel yourself walking around the room.  Then after a few days of doing it, you'll feel your body vibrate, and hear a pop sound, and you'll be out of your body.  I don't know if it will work...

WILL ANYONE THAT KNOWS HOW TO ASTRAL PROJECT AN OBE HELP ME OUT?  I want to very much know how this really works, and how I can do it for real.. a way that works.  Please?