The Spiritual Aspect

[bitsmart]

I really like what you wrote Barbara. I myself was brought up in a family that really had no beliefs, not even an atheist belief that there was nothing spiritual and no God. I was left to decide for myself what my beliefs are, and for that I thank my family. It's been interesting piecing together my own belief system, and every time I have a spiritual experience a belief I have becomes based on fact rather than faith.

I too have learned that there is no death, only change. We ARE spiritual beings having a human experience, which takes a lot of courage. We're all here by choice, whether we remember it or not. I recently started learning about Buddhism, which isn't even really a religion. It's more of a 'Tao', a way of life, and it teaches you to look inside for the answers you seek, becaues you really already know. Trusting my inner self, my true self is the center of my beliefs, and it's working out great so far.

I agree, people defend their beliefs tooth and claw. My parents taught me to never argue about two things: politics and religion. If someone is willing to have a friendly debate, I heartily proceed. But when you have beliefs as radical as mine, discussing this with most people reminds me of a comedian's saying...

"You know why opinions are like ***holes? Cuz I don't wanna hear yours!"

Forgive the vulgarity. So, each to his own. =)

bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -

[Qui-Gon Jinn]

Hi Barbara, good for you that you began looking within and asking yourself questions, and not only "took on" everything your parents believed in and then stuck with it for the rest of your life without questioning if this is the "only truth", that is the easy way, and a very dangerous way...  because it can be a major obstacle to spiritual growth I have learned..  I know one deep religious guy in my age, he can´t even understand why not everyone is as deep religious as he, and anything that isn´t spelled out clearly in the bible can impossible be true to him, he will go on attack right away...  I don´t wanna offend anyone either, but I´d say he "became" that way much beacuse his parents are exactly.
As you say Barbara, we usually follow whatever religious (or persuasion) our families adhere to.

And the majority of parents who have a strong belief will 9 times out of 10 try to convince (and most often succeed) their children that "this is the way it is",  I know I won´t do that to my future kids (if I´ll have anyone).


 I was brought up like bitsmart, in a family who really had no beliefs, not even atheist. And I am very thankful they didn´t try to convince me about anything, I could, and did, go my own way - building my own "belief system" from scratch (it´s still in progress, always changing a lil bit as the years go by as my experiences grow) out of my own experiences and my own instincts, not based on a faith.

I´m not at all saying it is wrong to be religious, absolutely not, but I think it is potentially dangerous to only rely on outer "ideas/beliefs/truths" - it can have the effect for example that when a person experiences something firsthand, chances are he/she will deny the experience because it has no place in their religious belief system. Also, he/she may not go "searching" as perhaps would a person not being told "this is the way it is" from early childhood...

  I to have "learned" there is no such thing as death (at least the definition most of us give it), and I have developed an interest for buddhism as well.  And just as you said bitsmart, it´s really "a way of life", teaching to look within for answers to questions that will arise.

 Again, I´d like to say I have as much respect for deep religious people as not religious people, and I believe that there was a man named Jesus walking the earth, just like there were the "buddha" (been more than one buddha of course) and the man known as prophet mohammed. I just feel people who are not looking within for answers is out on thin ice...

   Take care //Qui-Gon

- Your focus determines your reality -

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Greetings!

I am new to this board, just found it today infact. Like Barbara I grew up in a religious family, though they were not very strict. When I was young I became very interested in this religion that I was taught. In reallity I was interested in what else is out there, but at the time that is all that I knew. As I studied this religion I felt like it left alot out. There has to be more than what is in this book that is not suppose to be questioned. In my mid-late teens I had a spontaneous projection, though at the time I did not know what it was. A few years later I learned about Astral Projection and related subjects. With this discovery I found a direction to take my curiousity of life to find out the truths that that book left out. As I learned more my views of that religion changed and in a way I felt like I out grew the confines that religion imposes. I then faced a dilema, Do I question and even go against this religion and face the fear it instilled in me or do I forget all that I have learned? Once one knows something they clearly cannot forget it. It took time but I have been able to work through these conflicting feelings and ideas and overcome such fears. I feel I am better for it and now see clear horizons to be explored.

Sorry for boring anyone with my own personal experiences but it is for a point. These are my thoughts and I do not wish to impose them on anyone but just to share. Way back when a religion was in its creation I feel that its creators were trying to do just this, expand their horizons and find more to life. But then for whatever reason the followers stopped searching and fell into mundane habits. Over time the religion was molded to fit the earthly constraints the people wanted. Which brings us to today, we have stale religions that do not grow. Some people feel comfortable with what they have and do not push for more, which was not the original intend of the religion. How I see religion fitting into our lives today is as a stepping stone to higher thought. It is for giving direction but not for constraining. One that seeks the more must learn to step away from the religion and seek the truth. Otherwise it becomes stale. It is dangerous, as others have pointed out, to remain in this state and follow the doctorine without question. It will blind them to truths, enlightenment, and growth.

[Barbara]

Thank you for your replies, and welcome Fallnangel77 to this forum. As you can see I too am new here.

Bitsmart. I also believe that we have in each of us the answers to questions we are seeking. Yes the most controversial subjects on this planet are politics and religion.

Qui-Gon Jin. Regarding religion, once I became an adult and my eyes were opened to the wars, poverty and misery created in the name of this, also the hypocrisy, my initial question was "where is the spirituality in all of this?" Having said this, I also have respect for others regarding their political or religious viewpoint. The world is not full of clones, so it is only natural that each and every one of us is entitled to our own specific opinions.

Fallnangel177.  Like you I also felt that religion left a lot out. I understand your feelings of fear and the dilemma you faced in questioning your religion. There were two emotions that I felt ruled by in the religion that I was brought up in, and these were guilt and fear. The guilt because we were told that we were born with original sin, and fear because one never questioned, one obeyed. So I do understand what you are saying. It is never easy to go against a belief system that is ingrained in one, but in listening to that inner voice, you are being true to yourself, and this is not wrong.  I have often thought that life here is like a large schoolroom where by our lessons are learned through our experiences.

All good wishes,
Barbara

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Thank you for the welcome. This seems like a really nice and informative board.

I totally agree with your replay to Qui-Gon Jin. I looked at all that was taught and then all the terrible things that go on because of religion and asked myself the same question. But I still respect others and their opinions.

Fear and guilt, how can one find "salvation" in such things? Yet I felt like these were two things that were a major part of the religion as well. I could not understand much of the obvious contractions that the religion had, yet again I was taught that you are not to question. But if you do not question how are you to learn? After awhile of living I have learned that learning is what this life is about. I like your comparison of it being like a classroom and learning through our experiences. One thing that I have learned, especially since I have started Astral Projecting, is that fear and guilt can be very harmful emotions to instill in the followers of a religion. They sure do not seem to lead one to enlightenment.

Bitsmart and Qui-Gon Jin are lucky that they were not made to believe in something but rather find their own path. This way you did not have to deal with trying to undo beliefs that were instilled in you since birth that you feel are not right. I am glad that I was brought up in this religion in one aspect. I did get see this first hand so I have knowledge of what it is like, the beliefs, and how it works. It also atleast gave me an introduction into spirituality. It planted a curiousity for me to seek my own path.

[Barbara]

Hello Fallnangel 77

Yes you are right some people are lucky in that they didn't have to overcome a belief system in order to find their own way. Yet they like us still had to find their own particular path. I think that it doesn't matter how you start out, it's how you finish that counts!

We come into this life on our own and leave the same way. From the first breath to the last breath in life, what's in between "experiences" that's why we are here. No matter how rich or famous one is, the only thing that a person takes with them when they leave this place is the "experiences" So no matter what background we come from; when we become adults we all have choices, and are accountable only to ourselves.

With all good wishes,
Barbara

[Adrian]

Greetings Barbara!

quote:
Hello Fallnangel 77

Yes you are right some people are lucky in that they didn't have to overcome a belief system in order to find their own way. Yet they like us still had to find their own particular path. I think that it doesn't matter how you start out, it's how you finish that counts!

We come into this life on our own and leave the same way. From the first breath to the last breath in life, what's in between "experiences" that's why we are here. No matter how rich or famous one is, the only thing that a person takes with them when they leave this place is the "experiences" So no matter what background we come from; when we become adults we all have choices, and are accountable only to ourselves.

With all good wishes,
Barbara

I must say, I really do like your philosophy very much

I would just add that it does not matter where, in society, one is incarnated, it is what one makes of it that matters. If it were not for my family responsibilities, I would be content to live in a cave with my books, a PC and an Internet connection, helping people whenever and wherever I could

I think the recently passed over British Queen Mother is a good example of this - despite being born into, or coming into, extreme wealth and priveledge, she nevertheless selflessly helped, and positively improved the lives of countless people, and that legacy will travel with her to the Spirit worlds, and into her next incarnation here.

The very least anyone can do is to leave the world a better place than when they found it.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Barbara]

Greetings!

At some point in most peoples lives the question "Where did I come from?" Why am I here and "Where do I go when I leave here?" is thought provoking. When each and every one of us is growing up, we usually follow whatever religious (or persuasion) our families adhere to. When I initially got the first book that explained that there is no death. This certainly caught my interest, which led me to find out more about it. On finishing each book over the years, there was always the thought, "what next?" and there was always another book that expanded my knowledge.

Over the years, although I didn't realize it at the time, acquiring more information that made sense completely changed my perspective on life. I was brought up in a strictly religious family, where one never questioned one's faith. Because of what I found myself reading, my views on religion were also changing. I had come to realize that what is truly important is to look within for truth not outwith oneself and in so doing would find true spirituality. I believe that we are Spiritual Beings living the Human Experience. That place called the Astral is where we come from and return to. On occasion when in the company of others and where the subjects of beliefs were being discussed, I very rapidly found out to my cost at how vitriolic people get when your views differ from theirs. So I learned very quickly to keep my opinions to myself. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. I found that it was and is enough for me to listen to that Inner Voice which has spurred me on.

In retrospect, I realize that when I started to think and question. My 'Inner Voice' was always there, I have listened and this has guided me step by step. Sometimes I have acted not fully understanding why, but at some point it was always made clear. When I have not listened, it has usually been to my cost.

Projecting into the Astral is not something one can do by going into a travel agent to buy a ticket to...? (If it were, wouldn't it be full of the rich and famous?) The Astral Realms are to do with the spiritual, and to get there consciously is not by any stretch of the imagination easy (of course there are exceptions) I think that certain parameters have to be adhered to here and in the Astral, and even if successful you will only get to any level if you have the required criteria. For example, I don't think that a person who is disreputable would be allowed to enter where there is peace and harmony.

These are just a few of my thoughts regarding the spiritual aspect. I do hope that I have not offended anyone!

All good wishes,
Barbara