A basic question...

[bryman]

I've got a question about OBE.   Ive skimmed across some of these topics and for the most part alot of people that claim they have an OBE, seem to think so without some solid proof....at least from my point of view.  Ive had lucid dreams where i fall asleep and dream that i wake up from my bed, but that doesn't necessarily mean ive had an OBE, or maybey i did and didn't even know it.  So someone please enlighten me with some knowledge on how to find solid proof between a lucid dream and an OBE.

Bryan

[Dark Ruler]

I heard something about how to prove it once.
You get someone you know to write down a number or letters on a sheet of paper and go to sleep with the sheet of paper lieing on ur desk or something then the person who claims to be able to astral project, goes to that persons house (in AP)  looks at the note and tells them the next day what no. or letter it was.
Thats the only way i have heard of proving it.

[jilola]

The thing is, it's almost impossible to prove to someone else you've had an obe.
The very experience and the environment is totally subject to your own perception and interpretation that even the hard tests such as the one suggested with cards or numbers tend to fail. Not necessarily because you cannot see the card or the number but becuase they ultimately have no importance at all. And and OBE is only and completely about what is relevant and important to the person experienceing it.
OBE is all about perception. This reality we call the world is all about perception. We perceive and then interpret the perception according to who we are and how we see our relation to whatever else is out there that may or may not affect us.

The best thing is to do what any scientifically oriented person would do and try the experiment himself.

Heck, from my point of view you are not solid proof.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[pmlonline]

Hey bryman,

That's been one of my main points at this forum; i.e., proving to self.  I am sure there are many reasons why people don't try to prove it, but IMHO one big reason is the fear of failure or ruining their cool new ability.  I think it is a defense mechanism so people, which is probably why so many projectors fall for the old self reality theories.  Truth is there are 1000's of incarnated people who have their own personal proof.  When I began projecting in college the first things I did while out of body was:

1. Take a digital timer (down to 100th of second)
2. Start the timer at least one day before projecting and then place the timer in a closed container or something.
3. After at least a day has passed, then close your eyes and get the timer and press the stop button.
4. Put the timer back inside and then open your eyes.
5. The next the you project then go to the timer and remember the number.
6. Wake up and verify.

I did this various times.  I now have my own personal proof without a doubt, but at first it was not what I'd hoped for.  For example, the first time I did it, the number was incorrect.  BUT, I noticed one thing.  The number that I saw while obe was long.  Then it hit me.  The number was a telephone number that I knew well back then.  Back then we had a government telephone number that anyone could dial that gave the exact time.  This number was the phone number for time, lol.  So what was my higher self or subconscious telling me?  I think it was telling me "In due TIME child, in due time."  Well, it was correct, in due time I finally got my personal proof.

BTW, numbers are by far the most difficult thing to get while out of body and bring back to the physical.  Take my advice, you will want to take a deck of pictures.  Each picture of a different scene, perhaps mountains, animals and such.  Then close your eyes and place a random photo in a box or cupboard or whatever.

Eventually the projector will want to see clearly.  If a projector doesn't want to put forth the effort and energy into developing their bodies so they can see reality and not a self created dream world then they will lose out in one of the greatest gifts and privileges.  That is, the privilege to helping others while out of body.  Nearlly all projectors create their own reality with a few glimpses here and there of true reality.  There are countless places to go while out of body.  You can even go to the physical plane in an etheric projection.  The physical plane is one of the largest group consciousnesses.  The ability to sync in to a group consciousness while out of body is a talent that will come over time.  Eventually you learn how to immediately focus and sync in to that group consciousness.  That's where the real fun begins.  Then you have access to the akashic records.  You be able to visit your passed away family and friends-- the real ones, not figments of your imagination.  And by far most importantly, you'll have the privilage to work along side of great beings and angles and sometimes even Archangels on missions to help save other beings who are hurt, in danger, in great pain, or need desperate healing.  When you do these things on these great missions with such beautiful Angles and friends, it will send chills of joy up and down your spine.  To help another being is indescribable.  The true projector can help others for more than in the flesh.  The work at night is vital and without such workers this world would have been destroyed ages ago.

As said so many times, there are great deals of people who've developed their bodies to the degree that can prove these things.  BUT unfortunately they are the ones who have the least desire to prove it to the world.  In fact, they learn that it is vitally important for present earth to not provide such proof.  Earth is great school.  Would you expect your teacher at school to give everyone the answers to the test!  Try and get Chris Angel to admit he has supernatural abilities!  He'll die before admitting it.  My advice is NEVER GIVE UP!  If you want your proof then you'll eventually get it.  Question is, do you want it enough to put forth the effort.  I can promise that you will be internally joyful that you put forth the effort.

Peace,
Paul

[bryman]

thats was very informative pmlonline.  I find it interesting that a person can go out of body and still be influenced by their minds, to the point where the OBE eventually turns into a dream.  

I remember I thought i went out of body once, and when i looked back on my bed to see if i could see my sleeping body as some proof, I saw myself sleeping with tatoos on my back.  The only problem is I dont have any tatoos, so after i saw that I immediatly discredited the OBE as a lucid dream.  

Another question...if one goes out of body do they have the ability to move anything on the physical plane and has anyone prooved this, or is the projector just an observer.

bryan

[Stevo]

You know, in a lot of ways I don't want to know if it's real or not. If it all just ends at my imagination or not. It's amasingly fun, the first thing I have ever been passionate about for more than 2 years, and it brings people who might otherwise be seperated by spiritual beliefs together on one similar ground.

I know it's a cliche idea, but I like it. It's fun, friendly, and most importantly involves bringing people in to a greater questioning of the world around them. Real or not, it's good for you.

[pmlonline]

Actually it is not only the mind that influences what you see, it can be the astral / desire body, or your Soul or your intuition body, or beyond, or even your physical brain.  As you know, control comes from the mind which is the link, but it sure helps if all your bodies are developed.  Think of your physical body.  If it was diseaded, full of cholesterol, extra fast heartbeat, craps, ulcers, aching parts, etc. then it would be a whole lot more difficult to project.  Same goes for the etheric body, astral body, and the mind.  The astral body is that emotional part of your being.  The etheric is extremely important in projecting as it is the part that heals the material body and holds the memory and much more.  A healthy etheric body makes all the difference.  The mind is the focusing unit.  Not meant as an insult but the mind in most is weak and wavering in thoughts and cannot focus too long and quickly dissipates when the physical enters trance state.  When the bodies are developed then you have a person on the other extreme.  Someone who has 24/7/365 continuity of consciousness.

Yes, people can project to the Etheric plane and move a physical object.  It is easier than you think.  The amount of material you move depends upon your belief in your ability AND the who ever else is watching.  For example, if you have a room fool of skeptical scientists then they will play a big role in the outcome.  It would take a giant like say Chris Angel to pull that off.  Remember, as you know this entire existence is a group consciousness.

Stevo, I hear you.  It's amazing, beyond words, especially when you create your own universe to play in!  Although one word of advice to everyone and that is don't over do it.  If one is perceptive then they may have noticed that life and the events that happen to one is not really so random after all.  Have you noticed how life seems to test each of us, our temper, just everything.  Like there's some life form in the far far background that is poking and probing you.  Some that have become perceptive don't like it and think that it's some sick joke on their life.  As stated, Earth is one of the most difficult schools ever.  The one that sets up situations in life is our Higher Self.  It is our teacher, guiding us through what we need to experience.  Yet it also gains from your experience since it is truly part of you.  So my point is, just don't push your luck.  I was in college when I began to project.  So you could say I had some curiosity about the opposite sex while out of body.  I had my fun, but it didn't last.  You could say that it stopped because I lost my ability to project for some time.  Each person is different and perhaps what I did not need to exploit is perhaps what another persons needs.  I abused the privilege of projecting far beyond what I needed to experience.  So I am only suggesting that there is something that watches over you.  It is there for your spiritual growth and for your protection.  It is the one that yanks you back into the physical body when you enter into a dangerous area.  Without it, your Higher Self, there could be a swarm of non-physical beings popping into your physical.

Peace,
Paul