You have basically described the common problems in a nutshell. Unfortunately, this is what most people have to face when trying to do it. Astral projection is one of those things that sound quite simple and straightforward on paper. But when you actually try and do it, all manner of challenges rear their heads.
Somehow, you have to forge a channel that runs between wakefullness and sleep. It's a tricky mental balancing act to achieve and normally takes a lot of practice before a high degree of proficiency is attained. Unless you happen to be one of the small minority who have a knack for it that is. Unfortunately, I was not one of them and, from what you say, it looks like you are not either. :(
What usually happens is, just like you describe, you can't seem to get relaxed and then, just as you do, you fall asleep. It is most frustrating as I and many others know only too well. What I would suggest is, don't give up on your current attempts because you never know, one day it might all just fall into place for you as it did with me.
In the meantime, try raising your awareness in order to "come awake" within a dream. That way when you fall asleep you get another shot at it, as it were. Projecting from within a dream is a perfectly legitimate way of going about it. It's a little tricky as you are by no means certain to achieve the requisite state each night. But with a little practice there is no reason why you should not be able to project, say, once or twice a week from this technique.
HTH
Yours,
Frank
Just as there are relaaxation techniques to obtain an OBE, are there techniques to obtain a state in which beginning relaxation techniques are much easier to obtain, more free from the distractions of the flesh? In other words, are there techniques one can do to obtain relaxation, so that one can then do relaxation techniques to then obtain an OBE?
Also, how does one take control of one's dreams when the mind is delirious and barely conscious like the dreams it is absorbed in? My mind gets so delirious in dreams that I think the delerious, etheral, incoherent virtual realities my mind generates during my dreams are real...
Now dreams are my bailiwick. LD, or Lucent dreams are great fun. What happens in an LD, is you realise your dreaming. Many things can cause this, but I have found if you meditate and build power before going to bed, you can usually have at least one LD. Lately I've been having a good run of LD's.
Usually it snaps into place that I'm dreaming. At that point you have several options. Most people just mess around in there dreams, and slip back into the dream world. Some people turn the dream into an AP, and project elsewhere. The tricky part is ignoring physics and using your mind to do things. There are several threads going on how to stabalize your dreams and OBE or AP from there.
I found that by not trying anything too demanding in particular I could fall asleep and stay awake at the same time. And as vibrations are typically a buzzing of one intensity or another that by thinking or steering my thoughts towards something 'buzzing' that they'd turn up before I lost total consciousness.
I know you should develop a technique, well it makes sense, but projection is so natural for some reason when you don't know anything about it. And I dislike the idea some intense method is needed to overcome the blocks that seem to come up once you know what is going on, and which stop you from doing what you did before without trying particularly hard.
So rather than practising relaxation techniques, which tend in many cases from the comments I have read to have the opposite effect, so that the person ends up noticing every little itch, twitch and ache so focused are they on the act of relaxing. Instead I would just get comfortable as if I was going to lay down and watch TV. In my opinion all you need to relax your body enough to go to sleep is just to forget about it being there to start with.
Then do the thing that according to some people doesn't work and is the 'wrong' method, I let my thoughts wander some. I would then introduce the thought of something spinning, a wheel or some kind of machinery. I would simply lie to myself that I could hear it, and I could. Then even if I got into a dream that dream would overlay the imagined whirring/buzzing machine in the background but at some point my conscious mind says hang on, that's not a machine, that's vibrations and the dream would fade and I would project.
I don't really call this a method as such, more a non-method. But the point is from no focused relaxation at all, and with just some directed focus on an imagined noise that it is possible to have fully conscious projections.
Of course many times I fall asleep, or hover between sleep and wake, but it works enough. I have no idea whether this kind of thing works for anyone else, or whether it is of any use to anyone else, but it showed me that I could project without doing anything more complicated than falling asleep and nudging my consciousness gently in the right direction. It won't get it everytime, it won't give you mastery, but it can get you out for minimum (ie, virtually no) mental effort or stress.
Like Frank says, it is just a question of balance and I think that it is a much wider tightrope than we sometimes believe it to be.
yes i believe its just like everthing else, the more you practice the better you get. its very much like a balancing act and just like a balance beam, its not easy the first couple times. i would just make it a manditory habit to see how long you can hold your concentration as you drift too sleep.
quote:
I dislike the idea some intense method is needed to overcome the blocks that seem to come up once you know what is going on, and which stop you from doing what you did before without trying particularly hard.
Wow, I just so loved the way you put that I couldn't help mentioning it. What you say makes a
lot of sense!
Yours,
Frank
... that does NOT require relaxation? ^^;
Every single time I have tried to obtain an OBE by relaxing my body to the point where I can project, it's fruitless. My body distracts me with various sensations such as itches or cramps, or even worse, the need to conduct a "buisiness transaction" with nature. oO
And if by some miracle I do manage to obtain a significant level of relaxation, I fall asleep, and my mind is unable to think coherently when I'm sleepy (so consciously leaving the body is obviously difficult)
I have concluded that relaxing to the point of projection is nigh impossible without either falling asleep or being distracted by bodily sensations; my flesh has a "stranglehold" on my soul. Oo
So, my question is, is there a method that anyone can obtain without drugs or special equipment of obtaining a CONTROLLED AND CONSCIOUS OBE that does NOT require one to do relaxation exercises beforehand? ^^;
Thanks for your help. ^^
-fruit [:D]
PS: If any of you out there are members of ASMR (the moonromance.net forums), you'll probably recognize me as that one guy with a pretend obsession with bagels. ^^