The electromagnetic connection... etheric projection

[Synergy]

I believe that the forces behind etheric projection are largely electromagnetic, drawing on my own experiences and that of others. And this would seem to make sense given the basic nature of our universe...

There is strong evidence to support the theory of electromagnetic energy in our experiences:

- The feelings of being pulled, sucked or drawn out of body when in sleep paralysis (magnetic)
- The accompanying buzzing or static sounds at separation and return (electricity-like)
- The reports of people while in etheric projection being attracted to and then 'stuck' to power lines or other high energy sources
- The feeling of being slammed back into bed upon return (like two magnets in close proximity slamming together)

Evidence for the etheric body itself producing electromagnetic energy of its own:

- A friend decided to try while in etheric projection once, to pass his etheric hand through his computer... bad idea... but when he woke he turned on his computer to find that there were errors and data to the tune of 10 gb was missing from the hard drive, as if a magnet had been passed over it.

My own experiment with electromagnetic energy and inducing etheric projection:

- Being in the Navy I was in a position to be inside a ship that was being depermed, basically large cables are passed around the ship and electricity in varying bursts and intensity are passed through the cables to erase the magnetic signature in the hull (for magnetic mines, and magnetic anomolly detection etc)  Anyway I was basically sleeping inside a large electromagnet for 2 days.  I was able to induce an OBE very very easy and to date, it was the most vivid I have ever had.



thoughts??

[DH]

Synergy,

I have suspected much of what you wrote about electro-mag. and projection but have not been able to validate it in my own experience.  Your Navy experience is very interesting and is worth noting.

DH

[kiwibonga]

- A friend decided to try while in etheric projection once, to pass his etheric hand through his computer... bad idea... but when he woke he turned on his computer to find that there were errors and data to the tune of 10 gb was missing from the hard drive, as if a magnet had been passed over it.

You know... That story keeps being tossed around... But I really don't think it should be regarded as having any value whatsoever... I talked to the guy on astral society (solstice, I think)... What happened to his hard drive beared no resemblance to what putting a magnet near a hard drive would actually do...

First of all, he passed his hand through the computer monitor, not the actual computer...
Second of all... When he woke up and turned the computer on, scandisk reported invalid file entries... No data was actually lost... This is something that routinely happens when windows crashes, or if there's a power outage while you're downloading something. Not something that happens when you put a magnet near a hard drive. (and he said "something like 100mb" -- not 10gb)
And finally... The way he talked about it really proved to me that the story was bogus (not a lie, just a misinterpretation)... He was being overly vague about what exactly had happened... When pressed for more details, he started babbling, using wrong technical terms...

The story is just coincidence and lack of technical knowledge... Trust me...

EDIT: Oh... And I forgot to actually explain what happens when you put a magnet near a hard drive... Take out your hard drive, rub a magnet on it, and put it back into your computer. It'll work just fine, as if nothing happened. It's a hard drive... Not a VHS tape. If it did cause damage, the hard drive would be completely dead...

[Synergy]

kiwibonga:

I was merely stating possible evidence based on witness accounts of things that occurr that might indicate electromegnetic energy is related to etheric projections.  I wasnt trying to validtate his experience one way or the other...  It's just another of many accounts that could tie EM energy to these experiences.  My own experience with deperming is also just a witness account of something that could provide a clue to this link, but again can not be proven.   I am just trying to assemble a bunch of possible accounts that could explain the EM connection, which I strongly believe in.

[soulstice]

Wow, this is a blast from the past.  I guess I should speak up and defend my name.
Kiwi, I vaguely remember your name, but I am going to have to correct you on a few points, because I think this time you are the one who is confused.

Firstly, it was the monitor that I was trying to affect, not the hard drive; however the two were situated next to each other.
Second, I was not the one who started the machine, and so I was not the person who would have ran any kind of disk scan.  It was actually my brother who started the machine, ran the error check, and told me that something was wrong that was not wrong the previous day.  Further, he had absolutely no clue about what I had done, or thought I had done, so there was no chance of meddling.  I did look at the amount of available memory on the C Drive, and he was correct, that there seemed to be a significant amount of memory "missing".
Thirdly, where do you get off telling someone they are confused about something that happened to them?  Obviously, I would not have a lot of information to give you, because it was not I that had checked for such an error on that day.  And, how often does that kind of synchronicity happen to you?  I think my attitude on the subject does not change the facts of that day.
How many "general errors" in Windows XP can cause that level of a disturbance (that can be noticed by casually looking at the memory allocation on the C Drive, or some other obvious means), and what is the frequency of their occurrence?  It seems to me, that even if I did not inadvertently affect the hard drive, the synchronicity between my OBE and the physical event seems like there is more evidence that something psychic occurred, then not at all (future selection for example).  I been using XP on other machines, and have yet to see something like that happen again.
None of us can be completely certain if what I said happened was what it seemed, however I have no doubt that sort of thing warrants further investigation, and is completely consistent with a psychical explanation.  The fact is, that the report of the memory loss and what I tried to do happened on the same date-- IF the etheric body is capable of EM disturbance, then that even IS consistent with such a hypothesis.

Oh... And I forgot to actually explain what happens when you put a magnet near a hard drive... Take out your hard drive, rub a magnet on it, and put it back into your computer. It'll work just fine, as if nothing happened. It's a hard drive... Not a VHS tape. If it did cause damage, the hard drive would be completely dead...

Does a hard disk not use electromangnetic forces to change data?  And if so, then if my hand did pass through it (which it did not), then how is some other physical shielding going to have any affect?  Recently, I spoke to a student of computer technology (A++ Certification), and he said that it is theoretically possible to change only a portion of the stored data if the "magnet" were very small-- he went on to say that the data would not be erased, but would flip random bits, not to mention the speed of the wipe relates to the amount of data lost.
I am not saying this to confirm or deny my interpretation of the facts, but you cant use that analogy to support one side or the other, because it can support either.

[kiwibonga]

There's two "parts" to a hard drive when it stores data... One is the master file table, the other is data... It basically writes data to the data part, and then writes filenames, sizes and references to the file table. Sometimes, several parts of the same data are allocated to different files, or file entries are corrupted... Errors in allocation can happen in a variety of situations, the most common being when a program suddenly halts (or crashes) or the computer is turned off while it is writing to the disk. This does not prevent the computer from functioning properly, usually, because no data (or "memory") is lost, it's just misallocated; i.e., it's garbage, and wouldn't even need to be accessed. Running a check after not running one for a long time usually reveals misallocated data, because the OS does not typically check the entries for integrity -- it'll just let garbage data take up useless space. I'm surprised that your brother checked the hard drive for integrity two days in a row; it would probably mean that this type of error happened to your computer often, or that he really really enjoys running system tools.

Now, I'm sorry that I have no professional credentials besides being a Computer Science dropout who was once the "neighborhood computer repair kid", but even with this latest message, you don't come across as a person who has the ability to properly assess what happened... It's not something to be ashamed of, and it's not a personal attack on your internet reputation; I think if you had extensive experience in troubleshooting computer problems, you would not even consider this occurrence to be more than a banal coincidence...

I don't think your side of the story can be supported by the A++ guy's theory either, just because of the probability of it happening that way... Randomly writing to the hard drive and hitting only the file tables without preventing the computer from booting is really an amazing feat... Data is recorded in a circular manner... You'll have one platter with the master file tables on it taking up a fraction of a millimeter... Followed directly by the system files from when you installed the OS... It would mean you hit it just right there in that sweet spot, and did not knock out a single file that was actually important to either windows or you... There's just no chance, it's not even pessimism... Even if you were trying to achieve this on purpose with an electron microscope and high tech miniaturized equipment, you would probably fail.

This story:

A friend decided to try while in etheric projection once, to pass his etheric hand through his computer... bad idea... but when he woke he turned on his computer to find that there were errors and data to the tune of 10 gb was missing from the hard drive, as if a magnet had been passed over it.

Is extremely misleading, and is only helping to create rumors...

I'm sorry for singling it out specifically.. But Synergy is trying to investigate something of a highly scientific nature... I feel it's important for her to know that the chance of the story having any weight is remarkably low, for the reasons outlined above.

You went through your computer monitor in an OBE, and the next day your brother ran a scan and found some errors.. On a personal level, yes, it's an interesting-ish coincidence... But on OBE message boards, it's become somewhat of an urban legend that people routinely mention and give actual weight to, because it was in the ebook and presented almost as solid fact.

[Synergy]

Hmmm...

I did put it in the ebook.... but I only mentioned it again, as something that might support the EM connection, and i do believe I said it was a friend who 'reported' to have done this...  if you think about it, nothing any of us do while out of body can be considered fact because nobody can prove it.

I guess that's what makes this whole subject so hard to try and investigate...  

At this stage, I am just assembling a list of things that might show that there is something to it...  I would welcome any suggestions though on how to go further and actually do some study on it that might provide solid evidence.  I do remember reading once about an experiment with PK meters.  There were placards with words or symbols on them and a pk meter directly in front, so that anyone reading the placard would not be able to do so without being in front of the pk meter.  They checked the pk meter for each attempt at an OBE and when there was a successful projection, and the symbol was read correctly, the pk meter actually showed an increase.... showing that the etheric body might be measurable as a form of energy. ..... I cant find this again on the net so if anyone can find this story pls post it here!  .... or any other experiments of this sort pls and thanks

[soulstice]

I don't think your side of the story can be supported by the A++ guy's theory either, just because of the probability of it happening that way...

Basically, that coupled with your previous statement, what you are trying to say: is that both of us do not have the education to understand how a computer works, but you are right anyways, just because you say so.
Somehow, I do not find that very assuring, and I am going to listen to the person who actually has the experience in these matters.

I think you may miss the point, all together.  We are talking about a non-physical phenomenon interacting with a physical one.  There is absolutely no way to measure how it will behave, other than through observations and anecdotes, such as my own-- trying to explain how it works, by explaining how the target object works, is illogical.  Yes, if the etheric body is magnetic, then your interpretation is likely correct, but do not forget that even if it were, it is still possible to have the effect that was described, according to at least one source with whom I checked (I'd be open to other suggestions from people in that field of study).
I really dont like to speculate on these matters, so please do not confuse my side of the story as something that advocates the association between magnetism and ether.  What I am trying to get across, is that it is possible that ether has some behaviors like magnetism, while at the same time does not emulate it, so any effects, like the supposed one on my machine, can take place.
If my target was the same, and on the same day, some pots and pans fell out of the cupboard, in that instance I would not think there was any kind of connection.  Considering my intent and the target, I have to say that the error that suddenly turned up is too anomalous for me to ignore a metaphysical possibility.  One also should understand, that my life has been filled with more specific psychic events, so I have no hesitation considering the possibility if there is enough synchronicity between my actions and the physical events.  It is not like I am jumping at the chance to be included in something that has previously eluded me.

Synergie has the best intentions, so I hope her readers will learn to trust her, even if she misquotes or misinterprets a friend tells her.  She's not an impulsive person, so there is usually a lot of thought placed into the things she writes.
In the case of my story, and the case of how it actually happened, it would be best to look at the general theme.  (1) A synchronicity between an etheric projection, and a physical event; and (2) a possible similarity between ether and magnetism.  That is the sort of thing that one does not followed directly, but uses to ask further questions into such matters.

But on OBE message boards, it's become somewhat of an urban legend that people routinely mention and give actual weight to, because it was in the ebook and presented almost as solid fact.

Are you forgetting where you are?  This entire forum was created on the premise that Robert Bruce can project, and that his stories are true.  I do not see the distinction between how people view his, and how people view mine, other than we're different people.  In both cases, one might inflate the events to be something they are not, but certainly, you cant say there is no truth in anything any of us says because you were not there.
I agree, that how it is presented can be misleading.  The fact is that it happened; how one interprets that is another story.

It may also interest other to know that I am writing a book about etheric projection as a specific paradigm.  Content-wise, it is close to completion, but can not say when it will be published.  There in, I explain how ether has been connected to physical phenomena, and how etheric projections greatly vary from astral projections (supported by scientific and anthropological literature; not just my opinions).  My story about the memory loss is mentioned briefly, along with examples from other sources-- so I would not use my story on its own to make the case for the etheric body.
I always keep a copy of my bibliography handy, if anyone is interested in researching my sources.

[kiwibonga]

Synergie has the best intentions, so I hope her readers will learn to trust her, even if she misquotes or misinterprets a friend tells her.  She's not an impulsive person, so there is usually a lot of thought placed into the things she writes.

Right, I don't think it's fair for her credibility to be hurt by another person's mistake.

I also have nothing to gain from arguing about this or discrediting the story...

It's just that what happened is so typical of a common computing mishap and bears no resemblance to electromagnetic damage... It changes everything..

Right now, what you're saying is that some unseen force tried to damage your computer by writing random bits in specific areas of the hard drive, but did it in a careful way that would not damage any known used data or important system files. It worked very stealthily to accomplish this feat and mask it as the single most common disk error, ever. I believe the expression used in this kind of context is "hanging on to a thread."

it would be best to look at the general theme

As in, it would be best to omit facts?


Believe me, I understand the value you see in the story, and I know what it feels like to wake up to uncanny coincidences, I project too... But I'm afraid listening only to what you want to hear is not the best way to go about investigating these matters. This is your cue to move this story from your "maybe" list to your "highly improbable" list. I'm glad I could help you with interpreting your experience, you're welcome.

[Synergy]

Hmmm anyone here have an old computer they dont care about anymore??  Maybe we can set this up again as an actual experiment, making sure that the computer is fully operational with no errors (run defrag, run anitivurs etc all beforehand)??

[soulstice]

Right, I don't think it's fair for her credibility to be hurt by another person's mistake.

Oh, so now you are saying that she did not misinterpret or change my story in any way, and my corrections had absolutly no distinction.  And, you completly take back your statements on how "misleading" her e-book has been?  What exactly was my mistake, when the only version published was one that is not the original story.

I already explained that you can not dismiss the event by trying to explain how the target is supposed to work-- how can you use that as the basis for confirming or dismissing a non-physical force?

It's just that what happened is so typical of a common computing mishap and bears no resemblance to electromagnetic damage... It changes everything..

What about the etheric body is electromagnetic?  Did I not say that I was not advocating that possibility, or had you already, and are to present proof that is correct? 
In order for you to say that, you would have to accept that it is in whole or in part, because your basis of reasoning seems to be that it would have to interact with the disk exactly the same way as an EM field.
Since I said the etheric body could mimic an EM field in some ways but does NOT emulate it, then your assertion that it has to absolutly behave like an EM field is just silly.
Do you have any evidence to support your claims?  Right now, you have about is much as I do, and I was the one actually experiencing the event.

Right now, what you're saying is that some unseen force tried to damage your computer by writing random bits in specific areas of the hard drive, but did it in a careful way that would not damage any known used data or important system files. It worked very stealthily to accomplish this feat and mask it as the single most common disk error, ever. I believe the expression used in this kind of context is "hanging on to a thread."

What I am saying, is that you are trying to use physical terms to explain the operations of something that is not physical.  That is a completely illogical association.
Let's pretend you are correct, absolutly.  By your reasoning, psychic forces (or whatever you like to call them) have no inherrent direction, so when they act upon a medium, they must also change everything else around it in accordance.  Is that a fair summary?  Take a look at this OBE study: http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ctt_articles2.cfm?id=31 (scroll down to the fourth night of the experiment).
Why did Miss Z not report seeing any of the people in the building?  Why was it just the numbers, and not the person who wrote them down, or the person who rolled them?  More importantly, why did Charles Tart not see her, as she was being monitored?  If she projected, and as you say, must mutually and inadvertently interact with the environment and everything connected to it (like a hard disk on a machine next to a monitor), then it should not be just the numbers and their position she reported.

In my case, the target location did seem to be affected, only not in the direct manner I had planned.  my target was the monitor, which was positioned next to the tower.  First, anything seen on the monitor HAS to come from the tower; and second, if a person could project and move their arms around through the monitor, then their "field" would have no choice but to come into contact with the tower.
There is no reason to deny this possibility, and your lack of academics are less than convincing to me.

As in, it would be best to omit facts?

AS IN... the story that Synergie published and YOU quoted is NOT exactly what happened, but one can still learn from it, if they choose.

[iNNERvOYAGER]

Hi, was googling degauss and saw this
"That's another common misconception about degaussers, due to how hard-disk technology has changed. "In the old days, tapes and disks were coated with gamma ferric oxide, which is easy to erase and change the flux at 750 oersted [a measure of magnetic field strength]," Carboy says. "Today most tapes are made of metal particle oxide, which is hard to erase and change the flux and requires 4,000 oersted. People think they can purchase a cheap or inexpensive degausser to erase the tape or hard drives."

Doesn't sound that the drive was erased, but just a thought, by knowing the EMF power needed to affect a hard drive, then the idea of a detector could take shape.

If the theory is that an etheric body has an EM field powerful enough to alter data on a hard disk, then it would have to be more powerful than the strong magnets that are currently used in harddrives.

A CRT monitor can be distorted with a relatively weak magnet, and that could serve as a more sensitive means of detection.

One day I had some hard-drives and VHS tape to erase and got to use an industrial strength machine, about the size of a small refregerator, with one small slot for a tape or 3.5 in drive. You turn it on and start the charge cycle, then leave the room as a precaution, then 30 seconds later, you hear a loud THUMP, and that's the EM  pulse discharging into the media. I was reading that they do about 6000-10,000 gauss, I guess that's a lot. So we're talking about a lot of power here.

[Synergy]

One day I had some hard-drives and VHS tape to erase and got to use an industrial strength machine, about the size of a small refregerator, with one small slot for a tape or 3.5 in drive. You turn it on and start the charge cycle, then leave the room as a precaution, then 30 seconds later, you hear a loud THUMP, and that's the EM  pulse discharging into the media. I was reading that they do about 6000-10,000 gauss, I guess that's a lot. So we're talking about a lot of power here.

Hmm actually I frequently got to use one of those machines at work (military) erasing the tapes that recorded raw acoustic data from sonars.  I messed up two good watches!  We never left the room...

The machines we used had a drawer you had to pull out and secure the tape on (reel tapes)  and then push the drawer in, and start the sequence.  It took about 2-3 mins per tape to erase.

[kiwibonga]

What I am saying, is that you are trying to use physical terms to explain the operations of something that is not physical.  That is a completely illogical association.

Don't be ridiculous...

You are the one making the association between touching your monitor in an OBE, and your hard drive having a very common non-magical problem -- Thinking that anything remotely unnatural happened is already illogical enough...

Answer this question: do you honestly think that an unknown force actually mimicked data misallocation on the hard drive by deliberately corrupting areas of the disk along a circular path that is a few nanometers wide, in a completely controlled manner that was harmless to all vital system and user files?

If that was plausible, then perhaps I would support your argument... But that's like arguing that it may not have been your fingerprints on a murder weapon, because it's possible that another person somewhere on this planet has the exact same prints you do.

[Synergy]

It was not my intention to start a fight between two ap members  

Yes I may have misquoted Solstice (though in my ebook I did just say 'computer' without specifying which part thereof) but I was merely stating it as a 'possible' incident that could support the em theory.  And I am just gathering people's reports, and also analyzing the usual feelings and signposts we all go through when we project.  I just have a strong feeling that there is a connection between electromagnetic energy and etheric projection.  Actually I believe that the etheric body might produce its own em field.  I would love for someone who had the cash to do it... to reinvestigate the experiments Tart did, but add the pk meter in front of the cards.  It would be like combining the two experiments. 

I am sorry ap that I managed to start a war between kiwibonga and solstice.  I do not go one way or the other with Solstice's reported events.  I do think that even with the possibility of coincidence, there just might be something to it... especially if more people report the same things happening (and I hoped it would spark more people to write about their own similar experiences)  I cant say whether or not Solstice's reported experience happened or not, or whether it was mere coincidence or not.  I just thought it worth mentioning in the context of em... if it even just possibly happened. 

[soulstice]

[Do] you honestly think that an unknown force actually mimicked data misallocation on the hard drive by deliberately corrupting areas of the disk along a circular path that is a few nanometers wide, in a completely controlled manner that was harmless to all vital system and user files?

Let's see, when you used the phrase "inadvertently", and explained that my "arms" had to come into contact with the HD one way or the other: No, it was not controlled, or else I would have said that I was attempting to affect that and not the monitor.
I think you are forgetting the subject matter here.  We are NOT talking about physical habbits of causality-- we are talking about something that goes right up there with psychokinesis or magick (whichever you want to call it).  Ask a practitioner of either if they always get exact results, and if there has never been a time when the result they achieved was related, but not predicted.

Since I am saying that the event seemed to happen in response to an OBE, then it is now your burden of proof to do one of a few things: show that OBE are not real; show that ether behaves exactly like EM radiation; show that it is not possible to accidentally affect another system in response to the presence of ether (and no such accidents could ever happen); or deny that had projected at all.  You have done no such thing, other than try to explain it away, by explaining how the physical target operates.  And, that would be logical, if you had been able to achieve one of the latter possibilities.

You are the one making the association between touching your monitor in an OBE, and your hard drive having a very common non-magical problem...

Excuse me, but now you make it sound like I did something else.  I said that I passed my "hands" through the monitor, while at the same time, had to be in contact with the tower (because of how the two were positioned).
In the occult paradigm, it is not uncommon for a magician to affect the environment in ways that are related to their activities, but not nessesserily in a way that was intended or predicted.

Answer this question...

I was asking the questions first, so please show some courtesy, and stop avoiding my points.  I noticed that I have done most of the explaining, so I am waiting for you to back up your statements, rather and use ranting and accusations to get by.

[That's] like arguing that it may not have been your fingerprints on a murder weapon, because it's possible that another person somewhere on this planet has the exact same prints you do.

How so?  Did I commit the same crime at the exact time as the other person?  Your analogy does not make sense, so clarify, or next time think about what I am saying before you respond.

[Milkdrops]

- A friend decided to try while in etheric projection once, to pass his etheric hand through his computer... bad idea... but when he woke he turned on his computer to find that there were errors and data to the tune of 10 gb was missing from the hard drive, as if a magnet had been passed over it.

Haha thats cool as hell!

[kiwibonga]

- A friend decided to try while in etheric projection once, to pass his etheric hand through his computer... bad idea... but when he woke he turned on his computer to find that there were errors and data to the tune of 10 gb was missing from the hard drive, as if a magnet had been passed over it.

Haha thats cool as hell!

I am in awe.

[Synergy]

Funny how this thread which was supposed to be about EM and etheric projection turned into a thread predominantly about Solstice! grrrrrr!


Soooooo......

Anyone have any other ideas on the EM connection?  My reason for wanting to investigate this, is that maybe we can develop a way to help induce the experience by using an EM field.  (Maybe something like the deperming process on a much smaller scale that can be placed by the head of the bed or something...   )

Its already been shown that electrodes placed on certain parts of the brain (the angular gyrus in particular) can induce OBE-like symptoms... I say OBE-like because we do not know for sure if what that lady felt was in fact an OBE or just something that feels like it (dissociation or dislocation phenomenon).  But anyway, if electrodes can stimulate a certain part of the brain to help induce OBEs, then this might be a step in the right direction.  Maybe someone can construct a helmet or something that produces a small EM field that would encompass the head to test out. 

As for safety, in the Navy we were given a 10 page report on the effects of EM on the human body and were assured that the deperming was safe for us to be inside the ship.  Anything that we could construct would be much less of a field than I was subjected to those few days.... and for the record I am fine

In fact, here is a link to an experiment that is pretty close to what I'd like to see done... only we'd try to purposely induce an OBE, whereas these people were just left in a dark room with the em field in the helmet, and given a survey afterward.  Some reported seeing spiritual entities, the guy who wrote the article said several times he felt as if he was pulled out of his body.  Long article but worth the read.  It's from 1999.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html?pg=1&topic=&topic_set=

[soulstice]

I am sure you are aware of Blanke's experiments, concerning epileptic patients and the angular gyrus.  In order to simulate an OBE-feeling, that part of the brain had to be exposed to an electrical current.
And, Robert Monroe did some experiments with a Faraday Cage, but I did not read that book, so you would have to look into it.

[Synergy]

I am sure you are aware of Blanke's experiments, concerning epileptic patients and the angular gyrus.  In order to simulate an OBE-feeling, that part of the brain had to be exposed to an electrical current.
And, Robert Monroe did some experiments with a Faraday Cage, but I did not read that book, so you would have to look into it.

In the epileptic patients, their skull was opened!  eek! I would not be first in line to volunteer for that!

But I would volunteer for  EM helmet studies   kind of like the ones in that last link I posted.

[skropenfield]

Take notice of "plasma metaphysics" by Jay Alfred.    

http://plasmametaphysics.blogspot.com/2007_10_01_archive.html

http://www.plasmametaphysics.com/