do
The only character trait common to all projectors is that they are conscious. :wink:
Anyone can do it
Using some of Gardner's intelligence types, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that intrapersonal intelligent people are more likely to project - the introverted type.
it is the birthright of all people, it comes more naturally to some.
perhaps those people that might have been chosen at birth to become the shaman's apprentice, or our modern day seers and guides. someone with strong intuition.
maybe they are all naive? and naivity drives them to have such beliefs?
jesus alfalfa. nothing nice to say? :lol:
maybe you're right. maybe this is all crazy and we're making it up and we're really just naive and trusting of wonderful claims.
maybe we're can't cope with the real scientific reality that you inhabit so well. naturally we seek a way out, we live in a fanciful world of imagination that holds no concrete value. we are so pathetic.
i'm playing portal 2 as well.......for science.
but then how can so many people have such experiences?
it cant be that they are all naive, i dont think they are, you are just one of them, u cant talk for all of them
(haha yes i make your head blow because you assume i am takeing sites)
Most people who aren't properly initiated in this stuff do seem to think they are going crazy. :lol:
Quote from: alfalfa on May 04, 2011, 11:05:41
but then how can so many people have such experiences?
it cant be that they are all naive, i dont think they are, you are just one of them, u cant talk for all of them
(haha yes i make your head blow because you assume i am takeing sites)
remove that one line and this is a great example of a legitimate post!
you're on your way to becoming a real live member!
lol. :-D
just having a laugh alfalfa, please do join in.
Quote from: alfalfa on May 04, 2011, 07:23:59
maybe they are all naive? and naivity drives them to have such beliefs?
There is no belief associated with projection, only experiences. You can create a story to explain an experience (or explain it away) but an experience is an experience.
A typical projector may have experience meditating or naturally being good at focusing, is somewhat fearless since at first many have roadblocks/strange sensations, and is very curious about the nature of reality (and explores theories like those found in Buddhism, Quantum physics, Jane Roberts/Seth books and Law of Attraction).
Quote from: extracrispy on May 05, 2011, 08:19:11
Or headed in that direction. :-)
Heh. Yeah, at least one would hope so.
But then I started wondering at the huge numbers of 'curiosity seekers' who are only into it as a 'dip the toe in the water' type action.
I think we need to clarify what the definition of "Astral Projector" is. Daily OBEs? Monthly? Yearly?
Do Lucid dreams count? How lucid?
...
Quote from: Rudolph on May 06, 2011, 18:41:43
Heh. Yeah, at least one would hope so.
But then I started wondering at the huge numbers of 'curiosity seekers' who are only into it as a 'dip the toe in the water' type action.
I think we need to clarify what the definition of "Astral Projector" is. Daily OBEs? Monthly? Yearly?
Do Lucid dreams count? How lucid?
...
It depends on who you talk to.
If you're talking to me, I believe that any experience that doesn't happen while you're wide awake here in this physical reality is a non-physical experience (aka: "projection").
Some people disagree with me, and that's really fine. :)
But it underlines the point that we'll probably never come to a consensus over all of this stuff. The best you can do is come to your own opinion through experience. :)
An astral projector is every kind of person you can think of because everyone projects whether they are aware of it or not, so I'm assuming what you are really asking is what kind of a person is one who is good at "recalling" projection experiences. Well, again that could be anything. It's like asking what kind of a person is a body builder, or what kind of a person is a basketball player. There's nothing special about someone who can recall their projection experiences. It's just that, due to our upbringing in this materialistic society and deeply embedded belief systems since birth, most have to work really hard at being able to successfully recall projection experiences, just as a body builder has to work really hard to get a muscular body.
As far as there being different kinds of projections, the only difference is in how they are perceived. Like Xanth said, they are all projections of consciousness. They are just perceived differently. And even the word "projection" is not really an appropriate word because there is no such thing as "time" or "space". We don't project anywhere, because we are already there. "Out of Body" experiences does not mean you are actually out of your body, it is just perceived that way. "Astral Projecting" into the astral realms does not mean you are projecting outside of the physical realm because there is no "outside" of anything. Again, there is no such thing as "space" or "distance". So again, all projections of consciousness occur within, and even the term "within" is not an appropriate word, but given the limitations of human language it will have to suffice for the purposes of the topic of projections of consciousness. It's really more like just shifting or transforming your awareness.
And as far as those who think that people who "astral project" are delusional based on some radical belief, hehe well, for me to tell you that you don't know what you are missing would be an incredible understatement. For someone to tell another that projection experiences are not real would be like someone walking up to a person who loves to skydive and telling them that people cannot jump out of airplanes or telling someone who loves to ride rollercoasters that rollercoasters are not real, and that there is no proof that they exist. I guarantee you they would not care whether or not others had proof of it's existence or not because they already know it's real because they have already experienced it. And I can tell you right now that projections of consciousness is incredibly more vivid and solid than anything within this physical realm, and because of the extral sensory "overload" it can be perceived to be much more real, to the point where one could argue that the physical is the non-existent dream world and the realms "within" or "beyond" are the "real" world.
I personally wouldnt say everyone projects.
To me, projection is about projecting your waking consciousness(or something close to it) to a non-physical environment. Everyone dreams but not with their waking consciousness. For all I know we might all visit the astral every night but I dont think we all take our waking consciousness with us.
I'm inclined to believe that some parts of us are always in the astral and that the projecting is just us moving our waking consciousness to what we happen to be doing in that time/place.
The only trait I can think of that you could probably apply to all projectors is curiosity.
is the question what kind of person goes about learning how to do it consciously?
There are people who spontaneously project without even knowing what is going on.
Do all people dream? What makes one person more lucid than another? Skill, luck, heridity? Somehow I doubt it has to do with personality traits because we are a very different bunch.
Quote from: blis on May 06, 2011, 20:32:21
I personally wouldnt say everyone projects.
[...]
The only trait I can think of that you could probably apply to all projectors is curiosity.
Well said.
and that last thought is pure genius.
Yes! I agree with the curiosity part. At least the people who deliberately try to do it are.
From Carlos Castaneda's books on don Juan - a man of knowledge IMHO
good call apsinvo, i haven't seen a castaneda reference in a while.
he always comes back around somehow, lol.
One with patience and the ability to translate, interpret and collate information and experience when faced with the non-physical environment.
Quote from: Leary Herring on May 03, 2011, 20:45:00
Do people who astral project share any character traits? Describe a typical projector.
IMO, No. There are all kind of people, with nothing in common (character traits), who have experienced this.
Don't go very far, just read some posts here, you will find people ranging from fearful housewives to spiritually advanced persons, all describing their experiences.
However, if you are asking about what kind of people pursue AP and give it enough importance that their lives revolve around it, they are mainly of explorer kind, having a deep interest in unknown. Another trait is that they are open minded, open to knowledge and new ideas, however crazy.
One more guess is that they all want to be free, than anything else. (But thats my feeling, can't support it)
I wouldn't say they are fearless, because fear goes away only with time and experience in astral. A random Ap'er will be as afraid of something nasty and dangerous as a common man.
I wouldn't say they are spiritual or evolved, not all of them, because an evolved person has gone past this stage and sees AP as hindrance or mildly amusing at most. Most of us are noobs in spirituality.
I wouldn't say they are special or chosen ones, just a common man who has chosen to become special. :)
QuoteIf you're talking to me, I believe that any experience that doesn't happen while you're wide awake here in this physical reality is a non-physical experience (aka: "projection").
That would basically make any typical dream a "projection".
I think "wide awake" is even a debatable condition. It is all a continuum and those who are making a successful effort to wake up will often experience a wide range of lucidity throughout the day and night. Even full conscious OBE can be cloudy with impaired or even no vision.
But the question is, "What kind of a person is an astral projector?". Taking a broad sweeping glance across the field of participants reveals a wide range of 'types' experiencing the OBE state. But I think it is narrowed down quite a bit if we define it as those who are consciously making the effort to project and it is narrowed down MUCH further if we require at least once monthly success. Then the characteristics of "curious" along with "persistent" as well as "goal oriented" begin to emerge as a commonality.
Quote from: Rudolph on May 10, 2011, 14:19:06
That would basically make any typical dream a "projection".
Exactly. :)
The only difference is the lack of what I call a "waking awareness".
QuoteI think "wide awake" is even a debatable condition. It is all a continuum and those who are making a successful effort to wake up will often experience a wide range of lucidity throughout the day and night. Even full conscious OBE can be cloudy with impaired or even no vision.
I've actually never experienced this "cloudy" or "impaired" vision that people talk about. My dreams, when I'm actively experiencing them as they're happening, are always clear, just like my waking physical life right now.
QuoteBut the question is, "What kind of a person is an astral projector?". Taking a broad sweeping glance across the field of participants reveals a wide range of 'types' experiencing the OBE state. But I think it is narrowed down quite a bit if we define it as those who are consciously making the effort to project and it is narrowed down MUCH further if we require at least once monthly success. Then the characteristics of "curious" along with "persistent" as well as "goal oriented" begin to emerge as a commonality.
I view the astral landscape as so wide and varied, that I'm not sure I could put a finger on it as such.
For me personally, it doesn't even really matter. If I was hard pressed, I'd say "what kind of person is an astral projector?" ... I'd say one conscious within this reality frame.
My answer would be (did I say it already?) "A person who doesn't sleep well, and takes a long time to go to sleep". The rest just evolves from it.
i dont know exactly what you mean by the question, but i am a 20 year old male who is a full time auto mechanic, i play paintball, and race my racecar on the track. used to practice obe a lot more, but with work it's hard now but still keeping up with my dream recall at least
QuoteThe only difference is the lack of what I call a "waking awareness".
That would be like lacking a cup of milk in the muffin mix.
QuoteI've actually never experienced this "cloudy" or "impaired" vision that people talk about. My dreams, when I'm actively experiencing them as they're happening, are always clear, just like my waking physical life right now.
We weren't talking about dreams... but full conscious OBE. Many strong and promising young projectors experience this partial blindness upon projecting into the "PHASE".
Quote from: Rudolph on May 10, 2011, 22:29:52
That would be like lacking a cup of milk in the muffin mix.
Yup. Full awareness is (or should be) built into the definitions of "projection" and "obe." To make these terms synonymous with all non-physical experiences just complicates things.
Quote from: Rudolph on May 10, 2011, 22:29:52
We weren't talking about dreams... but full conscious OBE. Many strong and promising young projectors experience this partial blindness upon projecting into the "PHASE".
I see no difference in the 'where' between a "dream", "full conscious OBE" or "Phase" though.
I equate the "partial blindness" to some sort of subconscious block, not a problem with the reality they're experiencing.
Quote from: Astral316 on May 11, 2011, 10:58:10
Yup. Full awareness is (or should be) built into the definitions of "projection" and "obe." To make these terms synonymous with all non-physical experiences just complicates things.
There are a lot of things that we'll never get everyone to agree to... terminology being one of them.
I believe an important skill to have is being able to read someones interpretation and match it up as closely as you can to your own metaphors. It's not perfect, but it's all we have.
^ Agreed.
Quote from: Xanth on May 11, 2011, 11:30:16
I see no difference in the 'where' between a "dream", "full conscious OBE" or "Phase" though.
Do you mean that in the sense that there is no such thing as location outside of material reality or that all those types of experience are located in the same place?
Quote from: blis on May 11, 2011, 14:32:03
Do you mean that in the sense that there is no such thing as location outside of material reality or that all those types of experience are located in the same place?
I try to break everything down into a really simple form. I break it down into two "locations": 'here' and 'not here'.
"Here" = this physical reality frame
"Not here" (or "there") = any other reality frame that isn't this one. This includes the area we dream, lucid dream and astral project into ("into" also being a not quite correct term, but for lack of a better word).
But really... I'm starting to think that even this "material reality" (or as I call it above, "here") doesn't truly exist as a fundamentally objective thing.
These are all just my ideas and concepts, aka: Opinions. :)
The metaphysical is a different dimension altogether. It is very difficult for us to grasp because we are so used to our three-dimensional world. when we enter the other realm, we even attempt to see it the way we are used to perceiving our world. Our minds start to boggle when we think about what the Plane of Thought is...if everything there is made of thought, or representational of thought, then space/distance itself is a thought and thus it can be changed with ease. Another way of looking at such realm is that it behaves similarly to the quantum world...one minute things are there, the next they are not. This is what we are dealing with here. It's another form of existence altogether and might as well be considered as an unseen extension of reality from the physical point of view.
I wonder about that too, Summer. I mean... if I am OBE I am not using physical eyes so what is doing the seeing? There are no photons striking a retina. I must be translating 'energy' states into something recognizable to my brain. After one of Castaneda's inner journeys Don Juan asked Carlos what he had seen and Carlos replied, "you were there - didn't you see it?" Don Juan replied to the student, "I only see 'lines of intent'... I stopped 'seeing' they way you do a long time ago".
Quote from: Rudolph on May 11, 2011, 17:49:24
if I am OBE I am not using physical eyes so what is doing the seeing?
You are doing the seeing. The same thing as in the physical. Eyes do not see. Does a camera see? Does a brain see? Can a brain invent something as wonderfull as colour?
Quote from: blis on May 11, 2011, 18:34:32
You are doing the seeing. The same thing as in the physical. Eyes do not see. Does a camera see? Does a brain see? Can a brain invent something as wonderfull as colour?
ummm... I don't think it is the same. Eyes DO see. The brain processes the data that the retina passes to it along the optic nerve. Color, varying wavelengths of light, existed long before the human eye evolved.
Who is teaching this idea that the "seeing" is done by the "I" or inner Being? This is very misleading.
The incorporeal Self perceives energy, intent, etc. and the brain only processes it as a 'visual' or other familiar sensory event in order to translate it to a language the earthly human is familiar with.
Quote from: Rudolph on May 11, 2011, 20:59:45
ummm... I don't think it is the same. Eyes DO see. The brain processes the data that the retina passes to it along the optic nerve. Color, varying wavelengths of light, existed long before the human eye evolved.
Who is teaching this idea that the "seeing" is done by the "I" or inner Being? This is very misleading.
The incorporeal Self perceives energy, intent, etc. and the brain only processes it as a 'visual' or other familiar sensory event in order to translate it to a language the earthly human is familiar with.
I gotta disagree. Eyes don't see just like a camera doesn't see. Eyes are the conduit for light to bounce off the retina, and the light 'picture' is then transmitted to the optic nerve, which is now electicity. The electric signal goes into the visual cortex where it's interpreted and chemicals are produced to create a picture in the brain. So if the 'seeing' is a physical activity, it is the brain that sees.
But that's a whole 'nother story, because the act of seeing includes scanning memories for comparisons, and concepts forming. So who in the brain does all this?
You. The "I" in you, whether physical or metaphysical.
I disagree.
The seeing is obviously a human artifact and it is the eye that 'sees' and the brain that processes the image data.
In certain realms I meet entities that appear to me as balls of 'light' and I am pretty sure that they do not perceive me as a human form. Physical, planet earth forms are NOT what the eternal Self is naturally attuned to. Simple direct perception is the modus operandi there and the image data that is processed from what the eye sees and the brain processes is unnatural to the eternal Self. What we call 'seeing' is not a function or process of the eternal Self. OBE excursions are only processed and retrieved as planet earth image type recall because that is what the corporeal form relates to.
EDIT; This is kinda interesting. Feeling is another one of the senses like seeing and most would readily admit it is the fingers or skin or whatever that is doing the feeling but I doubt anyone would even suggest that the brain does the feeling. It is the ears that hear and the tongue that tastes, etc.
Again, the 'seeing' twist that people attach to the Self is unique but more pervasive than common sense would allow so I think some pseudo-teacher out there must have thrown this stumbling block out at some point and it seems to have stuck.
No one's taught me it. It's just the sort of thing I ponder.
Could the brain, a physical thing, create an non-physical 3d image that doesnt actually exist anywhere(physical)?
When you die will you not be able to see anymore? Will colour cease to exist?
Obviosuly the brain has a role in the whole operation(pattern recognition and what not) but it just doesnt seem to me like a physical thing could "see".
The brain is merely a tool which oscillates according to the environment. It receives the data and interprets it its own way. Consciousness is something else. If conscious awareness identifies itself as being the brain, it will be focusing on the data that the brain has interpreted from objective reality. If this conscious awareness shifts away from the physical, it may still use the same modalities of perception that it got used to for so long while in the physical body because it knows not any other way. However, as it perceives "out of body" it may embellish this perception, hence, for example, the crisp hyper-real quality of the ambiences it encounters and the bright colours that outshine the physical realm.
Our true nature though is a radiant emptiness which is paradoxically aware of itself. There really is no observer nor observed. Just mental states and concepts that this pristine cognition clings to in order to acquire a sense of purpose and meaning. That's our intrinsic nature. There is no "I" inside the brain whatsoever. There is nothing there. It's just meat!
Quote from: blis on May 12, 2011, 06:01:43
When you die will you not be able to see anymore? Will colour cease to exist?
Obviosuly the brain has a role in the whole operation(pattern recognition and what not) but it just doesnt seem to me like a physical thing could "see".
Yes. Once the Self separates and distances Itself from this physical earth reality completely enough.
I have a friend who is color blind. Completely. The world is literally black and white and shades of gray to him. That does not mean that there is no varying degree of wavelengths to the light hitting the rods and cones of his eyes. That data is just not propagated along his optic nerve.
There are physical colors that exist beyond what the physical human eye can perceive but other animals see them fine.
There are no photons in the Astral but there is an energetic aspect of Consciousness that our brain will process as a light and color correlation.
The eternal Self can have an experience in consciousness that It formulates as "light" in order to communicate the experience to the physical human waking awareness but it is not quite the same thing. It is possible to grasp the essence of a thing through direct perception without dumbing it all down to a collection of base humanoid sense characteristics.
Well, the way I see it, and what makes the most sense to me is that our "brain" simply exists to provide limitations to how our consciousness perceives and interprets the data it's receiving. If that brain gets damaged in some way, or simply isn't functioning properly (as in the color blind example), then that provides FURTHER limitations upon that consciousness to perceive and interpret the data.
Mind you, all that is just my opinion and I have no basis really for the reality of this. LoL
It's a filter
It might be a sort of a filter in some ways but it is more than just that. Summerlander had another aspect of its purpose as a receiver that oscillates according to waves or vibration, like a radio or TV set. But it is limited and cannot reproduce even closely, in some cases, what the exteriorised Self may be experiencing.
And this is not something that I consider a matter of opinion like "which is better, pistachios or cashews?"
Some of this discussion seems like people talking about electricity and being of the opinion that it comes from fireflies. That falls outside the realm of opinion. A proper understanding of the human form, function, sense receptors, cognitive features, etc. and its relation to the eternal Self can be instructive in these matters.
I'd also like to add that blind people who have had OOBEs and NDEs suddenly acquired vision. Interesting...it seems that once free from the brain, our individual consciousness can pretty much do the impossible. It goes back to what Xanth was saying in his post. The brain narrows the capacity of consciousness, perhaps as a means to deal with this realty, while at the same time consciousness seems to want to improve the physicals models to their entelechy...evolution. So...we have the infinite, perfect, archetypal and unborn reality which could be trying to recreate itself in our dimension. Hence this physical universe, which, in essence, is just one in a plethora of ideas and on this mode of vibration, a finite one still.
I believe in the case of a blind person being able to see again when OBE, we find after a little digging that they were not blind from birth. They might have lost the vision at a young age and forgotten what it was like but the subconscious carries the memory clearly.
I knew a man who was blind from birth who said he did not see when he was OBE but that he had a knowingness associated with encounters in the phase.
I guess not all of them see but different minds may access different modalities of perception. It may be that if they are not familiar with certain modalities that others use, they may invent their own and this is great. The mind is good like that.
what kind of person is an astral projector we have people in jails in fact all people with sentences of 2 1/2 years or more project twice a day morning and night as it seems to the most economical time to do this as in energy wise (less), thats all jailers every where in the world, building a process so as all in a short time will be able to project to do... long story
Quote from: Rudolph on May 12, 2011, 16:59:01
I believe in the case of a blind person being able to see again
etherical vision i believe they call it, most have acquired it all except a hand full because of something...they had it... but...get it back again though
apparently they see in black and white from awake to sleep (when wanted) for now and color to come but for reasons i cannot explain as yet why, but soon will be color as an area are in the process of combining the realms?/plains? don't know the exact wording for it
good luck
love all
Quote from: c0sm0nautt on May 04, 2011, 17:19:51
Most people who aren't properly initiated in this stuff do seem to think they are going crazy. :lol:
That's funny, I was telling my therapist about my nighttime "hallucinations" a few years back, and she got a concerned look & asked me if I'd ever been diagnosed with a mental disorder. :-)