Title: What not to do...
Post by: Dragen on December 06, 2003, 11:14:14
Post by: Dragen on December 06, 2003, 11:14:14
Huwie!
Congratulations! I'm not sure I would consider that a failure if I were in your shoes. That's called "Progress" and you got closer than you ever got before. As you know, (from my own thread) the closest I have gotten is feeling very intense vibrations and loud humming, and feeling like my body was heavy and then weightless.
But for me, it has only happened once. I'm having difficulties getting back to that point. I would be interested to hear your personal experiences using Robert Bruce's techniques in detail.
Wow! What a great experience. I enjoyed reading it!
Congratulations! I'm not sure I would consider that a failure if I were in your shoes. That's called "Progress" and you got closer than you ever got before. As you know, (from my own thread) the closest I have gotten is feeling very intense vibrations and loud humming, and feeling like my body was heavy and then weightless.
But for me, it has only happened once. I'm having difficulties getting back to that point. I would be interested to hear your personal experiences using Robert Bruce's techniques in detail.
Wow! What a great experience. I enjoyed reading it!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Nay on December 06, 2003, 11:39:59
Post by: Nay on December 06, 2003, 11:39:59
I Ditto that! I feel your excitement!!
I would say that was great progress. That darn fear..grrrrr, I use to get it really bad. Just keep on doing what you are doing, and soon it will lessen with time.
I could never get the rope method to work for me.[:(] I would tense up, glad to hear it works well with you.
Really happy for ya, Huwie! [:D]
Nay [;)]
I would say that was great progress. That darn fear..grrrrr, I use to get it really bad. Just keep on doing what you are doing, and soon it will lessen with time.
I could never get the rope method to work for me.[:(] I would tense up, glad to hear it works well with you.
Really happy for ya, Huwie! [:D]
Nay [;)]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 06, 2003, 11:46:40
Post by: Huwie on December 06, 2003, 11:46:40
[:I]
Thanks for your kind words, Dragen! I suppose I should be seeing it in a more optimistic light, as you suggest.
As for your questions, I'll reply here rather than split my reply between this thread and yours.
The ROPE technique is astoundingly good, but I agree that it's difficult sometimes. Let me tell you something, Dragen - I was having exactly the same problem as you at first! Namely, I was visualising the rope instead of feeling it. To get around that, I used two methods. Firstly, I think RB has said somewhere that it's easier to imagine you're climbing in the dark. That helped. Also, my own method, was to imagine that climbing the rope is difficult. Imagine you're really heavy and that you have to really struggle for every inch. I think that the reason it works is that it focuses your concentration a lot more. I know it works because I practically projected yesterday morning, as I said. It's just that that damned 'fear of the unknown' beat me. The fear of the heart chakra is nothing compared to it.
Speaking of which, yeah, your heart probably is beating rapidly. RB says it's just the chakra, but after an attempt I will feel my pulse and discover it really is my heart beating. However, all I can say is that it isn't anything to worry about. It's probably just caused by the adrenaline. I find that the closer I get to projection, the faster my heart beats. But trust me on this, dude - it really isn't anything to worry about. Something that helped me here was something I read in Robert Monroe's book Far Journeys. He said that in some 25 years of experimentation, absolutely no harm had ever come to the experimenters, physiological or otherwise. Reading that made me feel a lot better, and the next time I attempted to project I realised that I had defeated my fear of the heart chakra.
Regarding the chakra stimulation. In order, this is what I do (I stick closely to RB's methods). First, I use my mental hands to pull energy up through my legs. I try not to visualise my hands (although I find that chakra stimulation isn't ruined by visualisation), I just imagine what it would feel like. I don't so much grab the energy and yank it up as RB suggests...instead I kind of 'waft' it up. Give it encouragement. Then, I open my base chakra exactly as RB suggests. I have no idea what a chakra is supposed to look like, so I just use a general opening action with one of my mental hands. After that, I continue to send energy into the chakra, and beyond it. Then I simply open successive chakras in the same method. For the crown chakra, I imagine pulling it open from beneath, i.e. from inside my head. I then spend a few minutes dragging the energy through my body (always upwards), through each chakra in turn. I concentrate on chakras that I think need it, I like to keep it all balanced.
I think that's everything you asked about. Please feel free to ask any more questions if you like. Hopefully, soon, I'll be projecting so I should be of a lot more help to you. And don't ever give up! No matter how depressed I get about my failures, I always try again with as much passion as the last time. Good luck! [:)]
Thanks for your kind words, Dragen! I suppose I should be seeing it in a more optimistic light, as you suggest.
As for your questions, I'll reply here rather than split my reply between this thread and yours.
The ROPE technique is astoundingly good, but I agree that it's difficult sometimes. Let me tell you something, Dragen - I was having exactly the same problem as you at first! Namely, I was visualising the rope instead of feeling it. To get around that, I used two methods. Firstly, I think RB has said somewhere that it's easier to imagine you're climbing in the dark. That helped. Also, my own method, was to imagine that climbing the rope is difficult. Imagine you're really heavy and that you have to really struggle for every inch. I think that the reason it works is that it focuses your concentration a lot more. I know it works because I practically projected yesterday morning, as I said. It's just that that damned 'fear of the unknown' beat me. The fear of the heart chakra is nothing compared to it.
Speaking of which, yeah, your heart probably is beating rapidly. RB says it's just the chakra, but after an attempt I will feel my pulse and discover it really is my heart beating. However, all I can say is that it isn't anything to worry about. It's probably just caused by the adrenaline. I find that the closer I get to projection, the faster my heart beats. But trust me on this, dude - it really isn't anything to worry about. Something that helped me here was something I read in Robert Monroe's book Far Journeys. He said that in some 25 years of experimentation, absolutely no harm had ever come to the experimenters, physiological or otherwise. Reading that made me feel a lot better, and the next time I attempted to project I realised that I had defeated my fear of the heart chakra.
Regarding the chakra stimulation. In order, this is what I do (I stick closely to RB's methods). First, I use my mental hands to pull energy up through my legs. I try not to visualise my hands (although I find that chakra stimulation isn't ruined by visualisation), I just imagine what it would feel like. I don't so much grab the energy and yank it up as RB suggests...instead I kind of 'waft' it up. Give it encouragement. Then, I open my base chakra exactly as RB suggests. I have no idea what a chakra is supposed to look like, so I just use a general opening action with one of my mental hands. After that, I continue to send energy into the chakra, and beyond it. Then I simply open successive chakras in the same method. For the crown chakra, I imagine pulling it open from beneath, i.e. from inside my head. I then spend a few minutes dragging the energy through my body (always upwards), through each chakra in turn. I concentrate on chakras that I think need it, I like to keep it all balanced.
I think that's everything you asked about. Please feel free to ask any more questions if you like. Hopefully, soon, I'll be projecting so I should be of a lot more help to you. And don't ever give up! No matter how depressed I get about my failures, I always try again with as much passion as the last time. Good luck! [:)]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 06, 2003, 11:54:53
Post by: Huwie on December 06, 2003, 11:54:53
Hehe, thank you Nay! Very kind of you to say so. I find that ROPE works wonders, it's a magical technique! If you ever feel inclined to try it again, maybe employ the slight variations I use?
Anyway, thanks again for the encouragment. I'm sure you know how much it means to me right now! [;)]
Anyway, thanks again for the encouragment. I'm sure you know how much it means to me right now! [;)]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 06, 2003, 12:10:19
Post by: Huwie on December 06, 2003, 12:10:19
Oh, one more thing Dragen. You said you only got to that point once, and haven't achieved it since. That also happened to me. My second and third attempts didn't even result in heavy vibrations, just a little bit. After thinking about it, I realised that I simply hadn't relaxed my body enough. As RB says in his treatise, the inital relaxation stage is VERY important. He's right. Whenever I make an attempt since then, I always make damn sure my body is relaxed as can be before I even start on my chakra work. All my attempts have been really close ever since. [:)]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Dragen on December 06, 2003, 13:31:10
Post by: Dragen on December 06, 2003, 13:31:10
Huwie!
Thank you for spending your time sharing your personal techniques with us. I am going to try some of the things you suggested and see if that yields better results. I guess you're right about the ROPE technique and making sure you don't visualize it. It's just really hard! I also think you may be on to something with the "relaxed state" before attempting to move further. I've never been clear on this, whether or not i'm REALLY comfortable and relaxed. (Even though it seems I am?)
I don't have a real comfortable chair or recliner, so I do this laying down on my bed. I wonder if propping my head up will help?
Thank you for spending your time sharing your personal techniques with us. I am going to try some of the things you suggested and see if that yields better results. I guess you're right about the ROPE technique and making sure you don't visualize it. It's just really hard! I also think you may be on to something with the "relaxed state" before attempting to move further. I've never been clear on this, whether or not i'm REALLY comfortable and relaxed. (Even though it seems I am?)
I don't have a real comfortable chair or recliner, so I do this laying down on my bed. I wonder if propping my head up will help?
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 06, 2003, 13:55:11
Post by: Huwie on December 06, 2003, 13:55:11
I dunno mate, despite RB's advice I always lie down on my back, with my head parallel with the floor. Seems to work for me...
But yeah, be as relaxed as possible. I dunno if I'm naturally good at this type of thing or not, but I seem to have no trouble at all achieving meditative states and ignoring rogue thoughts and things. I have a topic around here somewhere (in the energy body devlopment forum) called 'Quick meditation question', and in it I outline my meditation technique. It helps me a lot, so maybe it would help you too.
As for ROPE, I cannot stress enough how much better I became at the technique when I imagined myself as being really heavy, so I really had to try hard to 'climb' it. You're right, it is difficult to avoid picturing it. The best advice I can give you here is to try and focus your visual awareness on the blackness of your eyelids. Just never stop climbing that rope, not even for a second!
But yeah, be as relaxed as possible. I dunno if I'm naturally good at this type of thing or not, but I seem to have no trouble at all achieving meditative states and ignoring rogue thoughts and things. I have a topic around here somewhere (in the energy body devlopment forum) called 'Quick meditation question', and in it I outline my meditation technique. It helps me a lot, so maybe it would help you too.
As for ROPE, I cannot stress enough how much better I became at the technique when I imagined myself as being really heavy, so I really had to try hard to 'climb' it. You're right, it is difficult to avoid picturing it. The best advice I can give you here is to try and focus your visual awareness on the blackness of your eyelids. Just never stop climbing that rope, not even for a second!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: m0d0 on December 08, 2003, 08:06:51
Post by: m0d0 on December 08, 2003, 08:06:51
Hey Huwie,
Sounds like you made real progress with that last attempt. I havent got to the lifting stage yet. But theres definately something goin on [:D]
I think i mentioned in a previous post somewhere on the site that im gonna give the heavy ROPE a try because up until know ivebeen as light a feather.
Once were all fully able to project, we'll have to meet up and go for a pint down the local astral pub [8D]
Have u tried Brain Wave Generator? I don't think it works for everyone but it's certainly my cup of tea. Maybe it might do the same for you.
Sounds like you made real progress with that last attempt. I havent got to the lifting stage yet. But theres definately something goin on [:D]
I think i mentioned in a previous post somewhere on the site that im gonna give the heavy ROPE a try because up until know ivebeen as light a feather.
Once were all fully able to project, we'll have to meet up and go for a pint down the local astral pub [8D]
Have u tried Brain Wave Generator? I don't think it works for everyone but it's certainly my cup of tea. Maybe it might do the same for you.
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 09:39:51
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 09:39:51
Hi m0d0
That's an excellent suggestion, I'd love to meet up with you guys! [:D]
I've tried to project twice since this thread but I've been disturbed both times, bah! I've tried the BWG, yeah, and I love it! It cures my headaches, it helps me relax, or it wakes me up with the attention-focussing (cyclic) presets. With regard to AP, though, I wouldn't really want to try to be honest. It may very well work, but I'd rather be able to do it on my own, know what I mean? Besides, getting to the exit stage isn't too much of a problem for me, it's just the letting go I have a problem with.
That's an excellent suggestion, I'd love to meet up with you guys! [:D]
I've tried to project twice since this thread but I've been disturbed both times, bah! I've tried the BWG, yeah, and I love it! It cures my headaches, it helps me relax, or it wakes me up with the attention-focussing (cyclic) presets. With regard to AP, though, I wouldn't really want to try to be honest. It may very well work, but I'd rather be able to do it on my own, know what I mean? Besides, getting to the exit stage isn't too much of a problem for me, it's just the letting go I have a problem with.
Title: What not to do...
Post by: m0d0 on December 08, 2003, 10:24:01
Post by: m0d0 on December 08, 2003, 10:24:01
I Know what you mean with BWGEN. I dont want to become dependant upon it, so i eventually plan to ween myself of it.
Just a note about your previous post as well -
I havent encountered the fear of the unknown yet and was kind of apprenhensive about doing so. That is until i read this lovely little paragraph by Robert Bruce.
"Many people feel there is something evil waiting for them, or a nasty spirit trying to stop
them projecting. This must be faced with courage! Look upon it as a test, an exam that
must be passed before you can project freely. Once you do project, and face it, you will
find it is only a hollow threat that will crumple into nothing.
"
Once i read that, i have no worries at all and hopefully will just be able to take the experience in my stride. Hope it helps you as well.
Cheers,
Mo!
Just a note about your previous post as well -
I havent encountered the fear of the unknown yet and was kind of apprenhensive about doing so. That is until i read this lovely little paragraph by Robert Bruce.
"Many people feel there is something evil waiting for them, or a nasty spirit trying to stop
them projecting. This must be faced with courage! Look upon it as a test, an exam that
must be passed before you can project freely. Once you do project, and face it, you will
find it is only a hollow threat that will crumple into nothing.
"
Once i read that, i have no worries at all and hopefully will just be able to take the experience in my stride. Hope it helps you as well.
Cheers,
Mo!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 10:28:01
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 10:28:01
Hehe, thanks m0d0! There's so much information in that treatise that it's easy to miss something.
I will certainly bear that in mind next time I begin my preparations. Much obliged! [:)]
I will certainly bear that in mind next time I begin my preparations. Much obliged! [:)]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Dragen on December 08, 2003, 12:25:47
Post by: Dragen on December 08, 2003, 12:25:47
Hey Huwie and M0d0!
The "Astral Pub" sounds like a great idea! It looks like we have a goal now don't we?! And don't you worry, the tab is on me!
Just a quick little follow-up about the ROPE technique, since this thread is focusing on it quite a bit. (No pun intended, HAR!) Ok that was lame.. lol, but I am still having a hard time with the rope technique.. and I suddenly came up with the idea to "borrow" that concept and I used a LADDER instead of a rope. For me, this has helped tremendously.
While this concept is still new, it seems to yield the same results as the rope, but it works better for me. I think I do better climbing a huge extended ladder in pitch black, then trying to climb a rope. I can "feel" the metal and the footsteps and "hear" the creeking of the ladder as I climb. I think it's working very well.. maybe you guys could try it and see if it works as well or better?
Cheers!
The "Astral Pub" sounds like a great idea! It looks like we have a goal now don't we?! And don't you worry, the tab is on me!
Just a quick little follow-up about the ROPE technique, since this thread is focusing on it quite a bit. (No pun intended, HAR!) Ok that was lame.. lol, but I am still having a hard time with the rope technique.. and I suddenly came up with the idea to "borrow" that concept and I used a LADDER instead of a rope. For me, this has helped tremendously.
While this concept is still new, it seems to yield the same results as the rope, but it works better for me. I think I do better climbing a huge extended ladder in pitch black, then trying to climb a rope. I can "feel" the metal and the footsteps and "hear" the creeking of the ladder as I climb. I think it's working very well.. maybe you guys could try it and see if it works as well or better?
Cheers!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 14:29:16
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 14:29:16
That's an interesting concept, Dragen! I'm going to keep on with ROPE for a little while longer though, because - and this is probably just me - I think that if I can't do it with a rope then I won't be able to do it with anything. Besides, I know rope works because I almost got out before, and it was just my stupid fear that stopped it.
I have a new problem now. I think I've finally defeated that fear, but what that has done is made me over-keen to project. So now I'm starting to rush it and getting too frustrated when nothing happens. Bah!
I really need to stop thinking about it and just let it happen. [|)]
I have a new problem now. I think I've finally defeated that fear, but what that has done is made me over-keen to project. So now I'm starting to rush it and getting too frustrated when nothing happens. Bah!
I really need to stop thinking about it and just let it happen. [|)]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Dragen on December 08, 2003, 14:54:00
Post by: Dragen on December 08, 2003, 14:54:00
Hey Huwie!
Yep, you use what works best for you. I just posted some ideas if there is anybody out there who is having troubles with the ROPE technique. Who knows, it may just work! But it's funny how many of us go through the same things. Just like you, I have been overly "keen" and tried rushing (or tried too hard) to project ever since that first time.
So here is what i'm doing to take the "pressure" off. I want to project, that is my ultimate goal. But right now, everything starts with a trance state. I just want to relax.. and get in to the trance state. That's my goal. The projection is a secondary thing... if I have the capability to do it, then i'll sure try, but not expect anything. I just want to maintain that trance. Robert Bruce even recommends getting used to entering this state and maintaining it.
Entering that state of mind has been a load off my chest. I feel like I can meditate better now that I am strictly focusing on energy, relaxation, and trance. With the "expectation" and overwhelming "desire" to project being out of the picture.. you can focus on the most important part... meditation and relaxation.. and if I have time.. i'll toss in the projection!
Remember, Robert Bruce even stated relaxation and trance is the SECRET to this whole thing. I think many of us try and skip steps on that high stairway!
Yep, you use what works best for you. I just posted some ideas if there is anybody out there who is having troubles with the ROPE technique. Who knows, it may just work! But it's funny how many of us go through the same things. Just like you, I have been overly "keen" and tried rushing (or tried too hard) to project ever since that first time.
So here is what i'm doing to take the "pressure" off. I want to project, that is my ultimate goal. But right now, everything starts with a trance state. I just want to relax.. and get in to the trance state. That's my goal. The projection is a secondary thing... if I have the capability to do it, then i'll sure try, but not expect anything. I just want to maintain that trance. Robert Bruce even recommends getting used to entering this state and maintaining it.
Entering that state of mind has been a load off my chest. I feel like I can meditate better now that I am strictly focusing on energy, relaxation, and trance. With the "expectation" and overwhelming "desire" to project being out of the picture.. you can focus on the most important part... meditation and relaxation.. and if I have time.. i'll toss in the projection!
Remember, Robert Bruce even stated relaxation and trance is the SECRET to this whole thing. I think many of us try and skip steps on that high stairway!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 15:06:12
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 15:06:12
You're right! That's the best idea yet, I'm going to try that too. We have our whole lives, right?
This has the added bonus of being more practical when there probably isn't quite enough time or peace to try a full-on projection. I think I've been getting too sure of my meditation skills lately. Thanks for pulling me out of the clouds, so to speak. [|)]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Dragen on December 08, 2003, 16:58:13
Post by: Dragen on December 08, 2003, 16:58:13
Yep, you're right. We do have our whole lives. That trance state is a big accomplishment in my book. And it does bring you a sense of peace and weightlessness. In this state, you can focus on developing your Chakras capabilities.. which we all know is incredibly important!
I think it will be one of those things, where you just "know" it's time to do it. It has to come natural!
I wish you the best of luck Huwie.. if you do get out before me.. give me a hand and yank me out will ya? [;)]
I think it will be one of those things, where you just "know" it's time to do it. It has to come natural!
I wish you the best of luck Huwie.. if you do get out before me.. give me a hand and yank me out will ya? [;)]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: m0d0 on December 08, 2003, 18:47:41
Post by: m0d0 on December 08, 2003, 18:47:41
Hey Dragen, Huwie.
The ladder sounds like an interesting modification and if it's what works for you then thats what you should do. I think the learning curve were all in requires us to make these little modifications to suite whats best for are personal selves. At the very least the modifications will help because you believe it too. That kind of self belief is important (By making changes we truly believe where making progress, therefore we are).
Like Huwie though, i'm gonna stick with the ROPE method because (Agen like Huwie) i have gotten close using it.
Although tonight my attempts completely bombed. I don't whether it was down to tiredness or just the wrong frame of mind, but i didnt get anywhere close to where i was yesterday. I got realxed an all but no further. As backup though i worked on my Chakras so at the very least i did a little bit to help me in the future.
Dragen, its definate go for the PUB expedition, we'll have a celebratory drink (Don't quite know how yet, but as they say 'where theres a will, theres a way) [:D]
This pub needs a name. Any ideas?
My first obvious attempt is 'The Astral Inn' but there has to be a more clever name out there. Get ya thinkin caps on. [:o)]
The ladder sounds like an interesting modification and if it's what works for you then thats what you should do. I think the learning curve were all in requires us to make these little modifications to suite whats best for are personal selves. At the very least the modifications will help because you believe it too. That kind of self belief is important (By making changes we truly believe where making progress, therefore we are).
Like Huwie though, i'm gonna stick with the ROPE method because (Agen like Huwie) i have gotten close using it.
Although tonight my attempts completely bombed. I don't whether it was down to tiredness or just the wrong frame of mind, but i didnt get anywhere close to where i was yesterday. I got realxed an all but no further. As backup though i worked on my Chakras so at the very least i did a little bit to help me in the future.
Dragen, its definate go for the PUB expedition, we'll have a celebratory drink (Don't quite know how yet, but as they say 'where theres a will, theres a way) [:D]
This pub needs a name. Any ideas?
My first obvious attempt is 'The Astral Inn' but there has to be a more clever name out there. Get ya thinkin caps on. [:o)]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: m0d0 on December 08, 2003, 18:58:47
Post by: m0d0 on December 08, 2003, 18:58:47
Just an added note before i slip off to the land of nod.
Early this evening, when i was bombing. I did managed to get real realxed. Now when im meditating i tend to lie or sit with my hands resting on my thighs (Instead of by my side) When i was in deeo relaxation mode, it felt like my hands had sunk into my thighs. It was a pretty interesting and new feeling.
Just wondered if any of you's have it at all?
Finally, i think one of the other reasons i bombed today was because i set out directly to AP. Sounds like i got the same over-determined attitude to nailing this thing as you both.
So great advice Dragen, i think im gonna take a leaf and just bring myself down a peg or two (Now thats a lamer pun concerning your ladder mod) and concetrate on honing my meditation skills before attempting to AP hehee.
Cheers,
Mo!
P.S - jus thought of another name. 'The Astral Arms' (How sad am i, i actually started a list).
Early this evening, when i was bombing. I did managed to get real realxed. Now when im meditating i tend to lie or sit with my hands resting on my thighs (Instead of by my side) When i was in deeo relaxation mode, it felt like my hands had sunk into my thighs. It was a pretty interesting and new feeling.
Just wondered if any of you's have it at all?
Finally, i think one of the other reasons i bombed today was because i set out directly to AP. Sounds like i got the same over-determined attitude to nailing this thing as you both.
So great advice Dragen, i think im gonna take a leaf and just bring myself down a peg or two (Now thats a lamer pun concerning your ladder mod) and concetrate on honing my meditation skills before attempting to AP hehee.
Cheers,
Mo!
P.S - jus thought of another name. 'The Astral Arms' (How sad am i, i actually started a list).
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 20:16:25
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 20:16:25
LOL m0d0! Nah it's a good idea actually, we need a good sign for it anyway, so it'd better have a name as well.
"Now when im meditating i tend to lie or sit with my hands resting on my thighs (Instead of by my side)"
Yeah, I do that too actually. I've no idea why, I didn't even think of it until you mentioned it.
So you're being thwarted by over-eagerness too, huh? This is so ironic. If it isn't one thing, it's another. At least it was one way of beating the fear of the unknown. Now I'm just so ticked off I can't project I really couldn't care less what happens when I finally do it, I just wanna do it!
"Now when im meditating i tend to lie or sit with my hands resting on my thighs (Instead of by my side)"
Yeah, I do that too actually. I've no idea why, I didn't even think of it until you mentioned it.
So you're being thwarted by over-eagerness too, huh? This is so ironic. If it isn't one thing, it's another. At least it was one way of beating the fear of the unknown. Now I'm just so ticked off I can't project I really couldn't care less what happens when I finally do it, I just wanna do it!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Dragen on December 08, 2003, 22:58:48
Post by: Dragen on December 08, 2003, 22:58:48
LOL Huwie! You sound overly excited again! I thought you were going to take it easy so you can lower the anxiety? [;)]
I can't blame you though.. I feel the same way!
As for your hand locations, I have found that my hands cannot, in any way be touching each other or be "too close" to one another. If they are touching, the heat from each hand distracts me, and it can cause you to sweat over time.
I will either have my hands at my sides, or I will put them on my chest, approximately 2 inches from each other.
Works great! Am I crazy? I think i'm crazy. The voices try to convince me that i'm not.. but I know I am. Or is it the other way around?
[;)]
I can't blame you though.. I feel the same way!
As for your hand locations, I have found that my hands cannot, in any way be touching each other or be "too close" to one another. If they are touching, the heat from each hand distracts me, and it can cause you to sweat over time.
I will either have my hands at my sides, or I will put them on my chest, approximately 2 inches from each other.
Works great! Am I crazy? I think i'm crazy. The voices try to convince me that i'm not.. but I know I am. Or is it the other way around?
[;)]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 23:39:28
Post by: Huwie on December 08, 2003, 23:39:28
Hehehe, well I'd be lying if I said I wasn't really excited about the prospect of getting out of my hellishly unfit body for a while. [;)]
The first time I tried to project I had my hands on my chest, and so the racing heart was even more alarming, so ever since then they never rest on my chest when I make an attempt.
The first time I tried to project I had my hands on my chest, and so the racing heart was even more alarming, so ever since then they never rest on my chest when I make an attempt.
Title: What not to do...
Post by: m0d0 on December 09, 2003, 03:40:55
Post by: m0d0 on December 09, 2003, 03:40:55
I think were all crazy Dragen lol. It's healthy, i love being crazy. At least i think i do... Sometimes when i argue with myself in the mirror wearing a bear suite i get confused. But 90% percent of the time im crazy happy.
I'm not sure what it was for me. I think maybe it was a mixture of over-eagerness and Tiredness. I dunno, gonna give medtation another crack of the whip tonight and see what occurs (Notice me, playing it all calm like) hehee.
Never tried meditationwith my handson mychest before... Hehee my heart Chakra already beats like a mo-fo when im in a trance. I wouldnt want to do anything to increase it. God knows what would happen if i did.
I'm not sure what it was for me. I think maybe it was a mixture of over-eagerness and Tiredness. I dunno, gonna give medtation another crack of the whip tonight and see what occurs (Notice me, playing it all calm like) hehee.
Never tried meditationwith my handson mychest before... Hehee my heart Chakra already beats like a mo-fo when im in a trance. I wouldnt want to do anything to increase it. God knows what would happen if i did.
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Dragen on December 09, 2003, 08:11:45
Post by: Dragen on December 09, 2003, 08:11:45
Haha! A bear suit! [:D]
This thread as turned in to the Huwie/Dragen/m0d0 thread. It has been flagged as a "hot forum" because of all the posts. But I think if people read it, they would be bored with it! lol [B)]
Last night, I attempted to project.. but it didn't work well and I ended up falling asleep. I was in the middle of having sporatic dreams, when I woke up in the middle of the night.. just enough to slip into consciousness. My body was asleep just minutes after. Pretty simple that was! But after countless attempts to use the ROPE technique, or my LADDER variation I got absolutely no-where.
I must admit, i'm feeling really frustrated. I don't think i'll give up, but seeing some kind of results or progress would be nice.
Oh, Huwie, I saw you added me to your MSN Messenger list and it asked me to add you to mine. So I should see you soon!
This thread as turned in to the Huwie/Dragen/m0d0 thread. It has been flagged as a "hot forum" because of all the posts. But I think if people read it, they would be bored with it! lol [B)]
Last night, I attempted to project.. but it didn't work well and I ended up falling asleep. I was in the middle of having sporatic dreams, when I woke up in the middle of the night.. just enough to slip into consciousness. My body was asleep just minutes after. Pretty simple that was! But after countless attempts to use the ROPE technique, or my LADDER variation I got absolutely no-where.
I must admit, i'm feeling really frustrated. I don't think i'll give up, but seeing some kind of results or progress would be nice.
Oh, Huwie, I saw you added me to your MSN Messenger list and it asked me to add you to mine. So I should see you soon!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 09, 2003, 08:57:51
Post by: Huwie on December 09, 2003, 08:57:51
Sure thing, Dragen. I'll see you online!
Have either of you tried the NEW techniques available on the website? I only realised last night that they were free to peruse. I think I'll have a good look through that and see what I can see. In other news, attempting to project after only 5 minutes of meditation isn't a good idea... [;)]
Have either of you tried the NEW techniques available on the website? I only realised last night that they were free to peruse. I think I'll have a good look through that and see what I can see. In other news, attempting to project after only 5 minutes of meditation isn't a good idea... [;)]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Zarklon on December 09, 2003, 13:54:17
Post by: Zarklon on December 09, 2003, 13:54:17
Hey , correct me if I'm wrong but .. that experience happened after you had some rest or in the morning ? It seems that most people's experiences happen after a long rest or unless they can get their bodies to that "after a long rest state".. at least thats how it has felt through my year or so of experience.. I'm able to have an OBE at least 90% of the time if I do it in my first class of the day at school. I take 2 naps before arriving at school.. (2 busses). So I think meditation and stuff helps to get to that state im talkin about but it seems to be effortless if you've just woken up and are still a bit tired. IF you go to bed at 12midnight and wake up at 6am or 6:30am , then walk around or eat breakfast without waking yourself up to much .. within 20 or 30 minutes , you should be in the state I project in.. It has something to do with how tired your body still is and how awake your mind has become from brushing your teech , or making your breakfast.. I project form a sitting position so I dont fall asleep as easy. I hope this helps , Icant type much cause I'm in class right now. Good luck !
PS: The fear of the "unknown" goes away in time. Luckily I havent had that cause I didnt really care what was happening .. maybe you should have the same attitude "SO what! Just leave my body!" Heh.. I dunno , peace!
PS: The fear of the "unknown" goes away in time. Luckily I havent had that cause I didnt really care what was happening .. maybe you should have the same attitude "SO what! Just leave my body!" Heh.. I dunno , peace!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 09, 2003, 17:02:47
Post by: Huwie on December 09, 2003, 17:02:47
It happened in the morning, but I'm nocturnal so it was before I went to bed for the 'night'.
You're right, meditation is probably the key. Recently I have been too keen to project so I've neglected it. In the last couple of days I have also been too distracted by noises and stuff to focus, an unfortunate consequence of being nocturnal; as I'm going to bed, the streets below my flat (apartment) are filled with kids going to school and stuff.
About the posture, I have never personally needed to use a sitting position. Falling asleep is generally not a problem for me, I don't get tired easily anyway.
Thanks for the encouragement and advice, dude! I'll keep on trying. I will project if it takes me the rest of my life. Har, no pun intended!
You're right, meditation is probably the key. Recently I have been too keen to project so I've neglected it. In the last couple of days I have also been too distracted by noises and stuff to focus, an unfortunate consequence of being nocturnal; as I'm going to bed, the streets below my flat (apartment) are filled with kids going to school and stuff.
About the posture, I have never personally needed to use a sitting position. Falling asleep is generally not a problem for me, I don't get tired easily anyway.
Thanks for the encouragement and advice, dude! I'll keep on trying. I will project if it takes me the rest of my life. Har, no pun intended!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: m0d0 on December 09, 2003, 18:53:18
Post by: m0d0 on December 09, 2003, 18:53:18
Well its 1:43AM, and i'm off for a lil meditation hehee.
Dragen, i was going to add you to my MSN, but i couldnt find your email (I bet it was staring me right in the face as well lol) But jus check my profile if ya want to add me.
Huwie, started reading about Psi Balls (Man that title sounds like some Space Sci-fi spoof). Looks very intriguing. Infact that whole site you sent the link for looks interesting.
Right im off to do some meditating [8D] *shouts* "Up, up and Astralllll!!!"
P.S - That was a cool MP3 an all, very dark!
Cheers,
Mo!
Dragen, i was going to add you to my MSN, but i couldnt find your email (I bet it was staring me right in the face as well lol) But jus check my profile if ya want to add me.
Huwie, started reading about Psi Balls (Man that title sounds like some Space Sci-fi spoof). Looks very intriguing. Infact that whole site you sent the link for looks interesting.
Right im off to do some meditating [8D] *shouts* "Up, up and Astralllll!!!"
P.S - That was a cool MP3 an all, very dark!
Cheers,
Mo!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 09, 2003, 19:08:57
Post by: Huwie on December 09, 2003, 19:08:57
Yeah, that song is amazing innit? Pity it was rejected for the film, imagine how much better it would've been!
I'm very intrigued by the psi balls, and psionics in general. I've started to train...plus it can only help with our efforts to project too, really. Mind-focussing and all that. Have fun, dude!
I'm very intrigued by the psi balls, and psionics in general. I've started to train...plus it can only help with our efforts to project too, really. Mind-focussing and all that. Have fun, dude!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Dragen on December 09, 2003, 19:41:36
Post by: Dragen on December 09, 2003, 19:41:36
Heya m0d0!
I added you to my MSN messenger list!
I look forward to talking to you online!
Psi balls eh? I haven't read much about them. Well, yet. I'm trying to focus on this meditation stuff first. Baby steps you know.
[^]
I added you to my MSN messenger list!
I look forward to talking to you online!
Psi balls eh? I haven't read much about them. Well, yet. I'm trying to focus on this meditation stuff first. Baby steps you know.
[^]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Zarklon on December 09, 2003, 21:22:00
Post by: Zarklon on December 09, 2003, 21:22:00
I'm back at home now and I thought I'de post another reply to this thread.
I just wanted to tell everyone that it IS very very possible to project from a noisy environment and around other people. I have had numerous OBEs from a classroom with 20 or so people making much noise , yelling (yes some goofballs yell at 7:40 in the morning)... So if you've read about NEEDING a quiet place , comfortable place , warm place , or whatever... its not true .. although it may help some , if not 99.9% of you guys heh.. Quietness is probably the reason I fail at home yet have much success in my classroom.. having nothing to focus on while I'm falling asleep might hurt me a little.
And Psi Balls... please..there are a few DBZ loving sites and sites that claim to have nothing to do with DBZ (cough psipog.net cough) and they are very immature sites. Psionic energy , Kai , Chi , whatever you want to call it , can be very exciting ..especially when bored. I've been practicing with energy manipulation for about a year and it has been interesting. I mostly save it for people that I just meet and freak em out when I try to get them to feel it on their hands or something.
Basically , psi balls are cool and fun to do but dont get too caught up in the lies that some sites expect you to believe.. (example: Kame kame ha! , Psi flames , beams ,) whatever.. just find out something that works and play with it yourself until you find a .. real site or you might turn out like some dude I know that has A.D.D. and thinks hes a Druid of nature and wind and thinks he can make it rain on command.... yea.... that may come laaaaater down the line.. by that point , you will probably not exist here anymore and have moved on to something more.. --- Yes I'm depressed.. Peace
I just wanted to tell everyone that it IS very very possible to project from a noisy environment and around other people. I have had numerous OBEs from a classroom with 20 or so people making much noise , yelling (yes some goofballs yell at 7:40 in the morning)... So if you've read about NEEDING a quiet place , comfortable place , warm place , or whatever... its not true .. although it may help some , if not 99.9% of you guys heh.. Quietness is probably the reason I fail at home yet have much success in my classroom.. having nothing to focus on while I'm falling asleep might hurt me a little.
And Psi Balls... please..there are a few DBZ loving sites and sites that claim to have nothing to do with DBZ (cough psipog.net cough) and they are very immature sites. Psionic energy , Kai , Chi , whatever you want to call it , can be very exciting ..especially when bored. I've been practicing with energy manipulation for about a year and it has been interesting. I mostly save it for people that I just meet and freak em out when I try to get them to feel it on their hands or something.
Basically , psi balls are cool and fun to do but dont get too caught up in the lies that some sites expect you to believe.. (example: Kame kame ha! , Psi flames , beams ,) whatever.. just find out something that works and play with it yourself until you find a .. real site or you might turn out like some dude I know that has A.D.D. and thinks hes a Druid of nature and wind and thinks he can make it rain on command.... yea.... that may come laaaaater down the line.. by that point , you will probably not exist here anymore and have moved on to something more.. --- Yes I'm depressed.. Peace
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 09, 2003, 23:21:11
Post by: Huwie on December 09, 2003, 23:21:11
Hehe, did you enjoy your rant, Zarklon? Actually, psipog is the site I have been using. Worry not, though, I'm not taking everything they say as gospel. I just want to master constructs, then I will take it from there myself. In all fairness, though, they seem to know what they're talking about and a lot of what they say makes a great deal of sense. I like their frank attitude.
By the way, I have never seen DBZ and have absolutely no intention of doing so. [:D]
"Quietness is probably the reason I fail at home"
Quietness is precisely the reason I have failed most often recently. The other reason being over-eagerness. Oops!
By the way, I have never seen DBZ and have absolutely no intention of doing so. [:D]
"Quietness is probably the reason I fail at home"
Quietness is precisely the reason I have failed most often recently. The other reason being over-eagerness. Oops!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: m0d0 on December 10, 2003, 03:42:16
Post by: m0d0 on December 10, 2003, 03:42:16
Whats DBZ?
Hey all.
So i was meditating last night, working on energizing my Chakras. Man i dont feel a thing when im working with any of them. I still do it though because i know it may take some time to develope them.
I tried RB's tensing method (Preperation before meditating) and that helped me get into a meditative state.
After energizing and opening my chakras (I think) i decided that i had time for a little AP practise.
So i start 'Mind Awake, body Asleep' just to add a little more focus and also something to let my body float away.
After this i start climbing rope. As soon as i start, like clockwork my heart starts to pound and my eyes start rapidily twitching. This goes on for a while.
I try and will my heart into some kind of control and slow it's beat. However as i did so the eye spasms stopped. I think i stopped the process of energy expansion by purposely slowing my heart.
After failing to recapture the ROPE sensations it was like i was lay in nothingness. I was there in meditation, but there was nothing in my mind and nothing outside of it.. At the very most i felt very light. I wasn't scared afraid, happy, excited... nothing. It was like i fell in an abyss or something.
After a while of wondering what all this was i decide to come around so i start moving my fingers, then my arms etc.
I turned and went to sleep.
So No AP, but certainly an interesting experience. I really do think that my chakras don't have enough energy to generate an OBE. I think i have some kind of bloackage or something.
Hey Dragen - i got you on my list now, cheers Buddy.
Zarklon - thanx for the warning but i tend to just take from a stie what works for me anyways. If i think it's bull crud, then i already no it won't work coz subconsciously ive already said to myself it won't. I try a take the most scientific and skeptical view when learning about new stuff like this.
Cheers,
Mo!
Hey all.
So i was meditating last night, working on energizing my Chakras. Man i dont feel a thing when im working with any of them. I still do it though because i know it may take some time to develope them.
I tried RB's tensing method (Preperation before meditating) and that helped me get into a meditative state.
After energizing and opening my chakras (I think) i decided that i had time for a little AP practise.
So i start 'Mind Awake, body Asleep' just to add a little more focus and also something to let my body float away.
After this i start climbing rope. As soon as i start, like clockwork my heart starts to pound and my eyes start rapidily twitching. This goes on for a while.
I try and will my heart into some kind of control and slow it's beat. However as i did so the eye spasms stopped. I think i stopped the process of energy expansion by purposely slowing my heart.
After failing to recapture the ROPE sensations it was like i was lay in nothingness. I was there in meditation, but there was nothing in my mind and nothing outside of it.. At the very most i felt very light. I wasn't scared afraid, happy, excited... nothing. It was like i fell in an abyss or something.
After a while of wondering what all this was i decide to come around so i start moving my fingers, then my arms etc.
I turned and went to sleep.
So No AP, but certainly an interesting experience. I really do think that my chakras don't have enough energy to generate an OBE. I think i have some kind of bloackage or something.
Hey Dragen - i got you on my list now, cheers Buddy.
Zarklon - thanx for the warning but i tend to just take from a stie what works for me anyways. If i think it's bull crud, then i already no it won't work coz subconsciously ive already said to myself it won't. I try a take the most scientific and skeptical view when learning about new stuff like this.
Cheers,
Mo!
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 10, 2003, 08:19:56
Post by: Huwie on December 10, 2003, 08:19:56
From what I gather, DBZ is some Japaneses cartoon called Dragonball Z. Apparently, they use psi balls or something. I wouldn't know, I have managaed to avoid it altogether so far! [:D]
Title: What not to do...
Post by: m0d0 on December 10, 2003, 12:14:32
Post by: m0d0 on December 10, 2003, 12:14:32
Oh... Never heard of it. [:P]
Someone should do a cartoon about Astral Projection!! That'd be cool, and education for the kiddies too, hehee. It'd probably even teach me somehing.
Someone should do a cartoon about Astral Projection!! That'd be cool, and education for the kiddies too, hehee. It'd probably even teach me somehing.
Title: What not to do...
Post by: Huwie on December 05, 2003, 20:25:01
Post by: Huwie on December 05, 2003, 20:25:01
I haven't managed to project yet, although I have been incredibly close to it, so I thought I would share an experience with everyone so that people in the same boat as me hopefully won't feel so bad. Projection takes an enormous amount of willpower, you're not going to get it straight away!
Extracted from my LiveJournal, then...
OK, so I tried last night. Dismal failure. The problem was that I was too tired. Never attempt to project when you're really tired!!! As I was meditating and trying to descend into a trance, I kept slipping in and out of consciousness. It was only happening for a fraction of a second each time, but believe me, that was quite enough. It ruined the whole thing, and I barely got any exit sensations at all, despite stimulating my chakras for quite some time. A sad experience.
This morning, however, was a completely different story - it's the closest I have come to projection so far!
I lay on my bed, physically tired but mentally not too bad. I first tried something I had never tried before, which was RB's 'tensing' method. It actually worked! It relaxed my physical body no end (ha, listen to me talking abstractedly about my physical body already - you haven't done it yet, Huw!).
Next, I began meditation, coupled with breath awareness. Achieving meditative states is one thing, achieving a trance state is quite another. I don't think I quite got there, although my body did start to feel heavy, but that doesn't matter because the ROPE technique isn't reliant on it anyway.
So, after a good 10 minutes or so of this, I started to open my chakras. I'm getting better at this. I'm better at stimulating my base and heart chakras (*sigh*) than anything else, but I think I have started doing some good work with my Third Eye this morning.
So, trance - check. Breath awareness - check. Chakras opened - check. Energy flowing through chakras - check. Nothing left now but to attempt to project!
I began the ROPE technique. This time I put heart, body and soul into it. The exit sensations started. My body started to vibrate quite strongly. I feel it most in my head and my legs. It's like having a fit, but it isn't scary. It makes me feel cold though.
OK, so I'm climbing, climbing. My head is banging the pillow behind me but I ignore it. I'm climbing, climbing. My heart seems to be pounding at 200 beats per second, but I know it's just my chakra and I ignore it. I climb and climb and climb and.....this is it! This time I could actually feel my astral body start to lift! I recalled something RM said about thinking how great it would be to float, and I immediately felt myself getting lighter! My vision started to change, it must have been the beginnings of astral sight! I climbed further and further, then disaster. As I was lifting out (and I'm positive I was), that damned fear of the unknown hit me. The very millisecond I started to get doubts I hastily locked them away, but even that one millisecond was too much. As soon as it had happened, everything changed and I knew that this time was not going to be the one.
I tried for a few seconds more, then gave up. I sank down into bed, a huge grin on my face, chuckling occassionally. See, although I had failed, that was closer than I have ever been before. As I drifted off to sleep I kept saying to myself "I can do it, I can do it."
Just that one last barrier. The fear of the unknown. I will defeat you!!!
Extracted from my LiveJournal, then...
OK, so I tried last night. Dismal failure. The problem was that I was too tired. Never attempt to project when you're really tired!!! As I was meditating and trying to descend into a trance, I kept slipping in and out of consciousness. It was only happening for a fraction of a second each time, but believe me, that was quite enough. It ruined the whole thing, and I barely got any exit sensations at all, despite stimulating my chakras for quite some time. A sad experience.
This morning, however, was a completely different story - it's the closest I have come to projection so far!
I lay on my bed, physically tired but mentally not too bad. I first tried something I had never tried before, which was RB's 'tensing' method. It actually worked! It relaxed my physical body no end (ha, listen to me talking abstractedly about my physical body already - you haven't done it yet, Huw!).
Next, I began meditation, coupled with breath awareness. Achieving meditative states is one thing, achieving a trance state is quite another. I don't think I quite got there, although my body did start to feel heavy, but that doesn't matter because the ROPE technique isn't reliant on it anyway.
So, after a good 10 minutes or so of this, I started to open my chakras. I'm getting better at this. I'm better at stimulating my base and heart chakras (*sigh*) than anything else, but I think I have started doing some good work with my Third Eye this morning.
So, trance - check. Breath awareness - check. Chakras opened - check. Energy flowing through chakras - check. Nothing left now but to attempt to project!
I began the ROPE technique. This time I put heart, body and soul into it. The exit sensations started. My body started to vibrate quite strongly. I feel it most in my head and my legs. It's like having a fit, but it isn't scary. It makes me feel cold though.
OK, so I'm climbing, climbing. My head is banging the pillow behind me but I ignore it. I'm climbing, climbing. My heart seems to be pounding at 200 beats per second, but I know it's just my chakra and I ignore it. I climb and climb and climb and.....this is it! This time I could actually feel my astral body start to lift! I recalled something RM said about thinking how great it would be to float, and I immediately felt myself getting lighter! My vision started to change, it must have been the beginnings of astral sight! I climbed further and further, then disaster. As I was lifting out (and I'm positive I was), that damned fear of the unknown hit me. The very millisecond I started to get doubts I hastily locked them away, but even that one millisecond was too much. As soon as it had happened, everything changed and I knew that this time was not going to be the one.
I tried for a few seconds more, then gave up. I sank down into bed, a huge grin on my face, chuckling occassionally. See, although I had failed, that was closer than I have ever been before. As I drifted off to sleep I kept saying to myself "I can do it, I can do it."
Just that one last barrier. The fear of the unknown. I will defeat you!!!