What's more important: practicing phasing or meditation?

[Kree]

There are lots of expert meditators who have never phased so practicing phasing techniques must be important, and most people who are good at phasing are also good at meditating. So what's more important to develop well: the meditation or the phasing ability? I guess if you become a good meditator then phasing wouldn't take long to learn but can practicing a phasing technique alone be enough to get ok at phasing?

[Stillwater]

I suppose it is more about what your life goals are.

Meditation's benefits are slow and come over months and years, but I think it is the winner of the two practices. Its benefits are the most tangible, and likely to positively impact your life. I think if you never practiced projection, and only meditation, you are about 90% as well off as someone skilled at both.

Projection is neutral in terms of life impact to me. It is what you make it to be. Meditation is pure benefit ultimately. It can help you to better enjoy existence, grow less impulsive, be connected to the moment... there are few things I enjoy so much as just lying on my back and falling into a gentle trance. It feels like a friend who is always close at hand.

[Karxx Gxx]

I was just about to mention something like that on a separate pest.

there are few things I enjoy so much as just lying on my back and falling into a gentle trance. It feels like a friend who is always close at hand.

This is great stuff, ima quote you

[Stillwater]

Sure, whatever boats your float! 

[baro-san]

   
What's more important: practicing phasing or meditation? Self-hypnosis! 

[Xanth]

There are lots of expert meditators who have never phased so practicing phasing techniques must be important, and most people who are good at phasing are also good at meditating. So what's more important to develop well: the meditation or the phasing ability? I guess if you become a good meditator then phasing wouldn't take long to learn but can practicing a phasing technique alone be enough to get ok at phasing?

Meditation.  By a long shot.

Learning to meditate is like building yourself a super strong foundation from where you can begin to have all these other metaphysical experiences.
It's essentially your launchpad.  I'd go as far as you will NEVER learn to phase without having a strong base in meditation, because you are REQUIRED to meditate towards the goal of phasing/projecting.

[Kree]

Meditation.  By a long shot.

Learning to meditate is like building yourself a super strong foundation from where you can begin to have all these other metaphysical experiences.
It's essentially your launchpad.  I'd go as far as you will NEVER learn to phase without having a strong base in meditation, because you are REQUIRED to meditate towards the goal of phasing/projecting.

What would be the most efficient/fastest way of getting to that point? Could i just meditate for multiple hours every day or would I get diminishing returns beyond 30 minute sessions? If it's like learning to play the piano then short and frequent sessions especially before and after sleep would be best due to the resulting neurological adaptations. I really want to get good at this and would want to spend whole days meditating but it often feels like a waste of time as I spend less than 1% of the time actually meditating due to forgetting that I'm meditating and getting distracted from being restless/uncomfortable. I know it took you like 10 years, I'm not far off that, but haven't made any real progress. To keep going I think I need to feel some kind of progress but I've never felt an improvement so it's a bit demotivating.

[Stillwater]

I think the majority of the benefits would come from semi-frequent short sessions (so 50 minutes a few times a week). After a while, you don't even really need to do it that much anymore... it is like a framework of thinking that gets integrated into your normal everyday thought loop, although I still enjoy it from time to time.

If you are after spending more time to have a new experience, the next big jump is 3 hour sessions... but that is sort of something a mystic would be doing. The benefits of doing that are a lot less clear and immediate. You do get a sort of new level, such as experiences where you fall into very deep altered states where you can come into introspective contact with any number of things rolling around in your mind. For most people it is probably more of a novelty experience, whereas the short session benefits are immediate by comparison.

I know what you mean about piano practice... in that case it is something like your head internalizing what you have learned the next night / coming to the next session with a fresh mental state. To me a closer analogy might be running. You don't really start running all at once... you do it by degrees, and your body has to do a lot of repairing and building... integrating the meditative mindset into your life takes about as long, even down to the session lengths that feel appropriate at each stage.

[Kree]

I know what you mean about piano practice... in that case it is something like your head internalizing what you have learned the next night / coming to the next session with a fresh mental state. To me a closer analogy might be running. You don't really start running all at once... you do it by degrees, and your body has to do a lot of repairing and building... integrating the meditative mindset into your life takes about as long, even down to the session lengths that feel appropriate at each stage.

Thanks for the quick response. That's a good analogy, however, with running you are sure to get better and the improvements are visible early on. Imagine running regularly for years and still only being able to run for up to 20 seconds lol. With meditation maybe the improvement isn't as linear or at least that's my experience.

[Stillwater]

For whatever reason, I had that experience, lol. I was only ever able to run about 3-4 minutes at once, no matter what, for about 2 years, after 4, hour long sessions a week. Maybe it was exercise induced asthma, not sure, but I would be in severe anoxia by that point. Maybe I powered through it, it seemed to get easier by degrees.

[Xanth]

What would be the most efficient/fastest way of getting to that point? Could i just meditate for multiple hours every day or would I get diminishing returns beyond 30 minute sessions? If it's like learning to play the piano then short and frequent sessions especially before and after sleep would be best due to the resulting neurological adaptations. I really want to get good at this and would want to spend whole days meditating but it often feels like a waste of time as I spend less than 1% of the time actually meditating due to forgetting that I'm meditating and getting distracted from being restless/uncomfortable. I know it took you like 10 years, I'm not far off that, but haven't made any real progress. To keep going I think I need to feel some kind of progress but I've never felt an improvement so it's a bit demotivating.

Just set some time aside each day.
I have a routine I do in the morning... I get up, shower, sit in bed and meditate for 10 - 15 minutes.
That's really all it takes.  I think the more the merrier, but then I really do ENJOY meditation.

I could meditate hours on end and not bat an eye, while someone else who might not really truly enjoy the experience yet (it can take time to learn to enjoy it) might not be able to sit still for 30 minutes, let alone 2 hours.

Whatever you do, just stick with it.  There's really no way to do this "fast". 

[Kree]

Just set some time aside each day.
I have a routine I do in the morning... I get up, shower, sit in bed and meditate for 10 - 15 minutes.
That's really all it takes.  I think the more the merrier, but then I really do ENJOY meditation.

I could meditate hours on end and not bat an eye, while someone else who might not really truly enjoy the experience yet (it can take time to learn to enjoy it) might not be able to sit still for 30 minutes, let alone 2 hours.

Whatever you do, just stick with it.  There's really no way to do this "fast". 

I've started doing this, it is very nice and relaxing sometimes, though I do get irritable from the lack of stimulation often. I'm wondering if sugar has a significant impact on meditation, Tom Campbell says it does but I'm not sensitive enough to changes in my mental state to notice and no once else seems to bring it up.

[Stillwater]

Sugar has an effect on general mood and mental state. It gets used up quickly, so as soon as your body is done metabolizing it, you get a bit drowsy as your body is switching to a new source of energy, esp if it is a fat source.

Your body prioritizes it above all other kinds of fuels, so this will pretty much always happen if you eat a lot of sugar at once.

[Kree]

Sugar has an effect on general mood and mental state. It gets used up quickly, so as soon as your body is done metabolizing it, you get a bit drowsy as your body is switching to a new source of energy, esp if it is a fat source.

Your body prioritizes it above all other kinds of fuels, so this will pretty much always happen if you eat a lot of sugar at once.

What Tom says is it that after ingesting anything with sugar in it (unless the sugar is contained within a structure and is released slowly e.g. fruit) the blood sugar levels fluctuate a lot for the first 4 hours, significantly affecting the ability to concentrate. Those 4 hours are when the effect is the strongest but to get back to optimal levels you'd have to avoid sugar for 3 weeks. Most people never notice the impairment from sugar as it's almost impossible to go that long without sugar as it's in everything and you'd have to go out of your way to not eat any.

[baro-san]

What Tom says is it that after ingesting anything with sugar in it (unless the sugar is contained within a structure and is released slowly e.g. fruit) the blood sugar levels fluctuate a lot for the first 4 hours, significantly affecting the ability to concentrate. Those 4 hours are when the effect is the strongest but to get back to optimal levels you'd have to avoid sugar for 3 weeks. Most people never notice the impairment from sugar as it's almost impossible to go that long without sugar as it's in everything and you'd have to go out of your way to not eat any.

There is a lot of misinformation about sugar, and especially about fructose. This is on one side due to health providers' incompetence, on the other side due to peoples' weakness for  what feels good for the moment, and also due to food industry's pandering to customers.

If you dig a little into the sugar's effect on health, you'll find out that it is the root cause of all degenerative diseases. Among the sugars, fructose is the worst because it isn't broken down as the regular sugar is. Hence, eating more than 1-2 servings of fruits a day is unhealthy.

[Xanth]

There is a lot of misinformation about sugar, and especially about fructose. This is on one side due to health providers' incompetence, on the other side due to peoples' weakness for  what feels good for the moment, and also due to food industry's pandering to customers.

If you dig a little into the sugar's effect on health, you'll find out that it is the root cause of all degenerative diseases. Among the sugars, fructose is the worst because it isn't broken down as the regular sugar is. Hence, eating more than 1-2 servings of fruits a day is unhealthy.

Correct.  It's broken down by your Liver... hence, it's a POISON for your body. 
When I use something to sweeten or bake with, I use corn sugar which is 100% glucose instead of the 50/50 glucose/fructose which normal sugar is.
The sugar I use, while still sugar and still isn't healthy for you... it's just a bit better for you than regular sugar as your body can fully metabolize it and use it directly as energy which your cells require.  Table sugar has fructose, which is what is killing our species.

[Xanth]

I found this great statement on meditation just now and wanted to share it here:

"Learning to meditate is in some ways analogous to learning how to drive a car. You have to start in an empty parking lot where everything is simple, and there is no pressures on you. Formal practice in stillness, such as sitting meditation, is analogous to the empty parking lot. Over time, however, you internalize the skills of driving and are able to drive on a quiet country road. Formal practice in motion, such as walking meditation, is the quiet country road. Eventually, driving becomes second nature. It requires little thinking or effort. You simply get in the car and driving happens. / At some point, you can attend to the business of life and still be in a meditatitve state just like you can listen to the radio while driving on a freeway at rush hour.

So, as your meditation gets deeper, you're able to achieve more and more profound states of concentration and tranquility. As it gets broader, you are able to maintain those states throughout more and more challenging and complex activities of life."

Av Shinzen Young, från boken The Science of Enlightenment.

[Stillwater]

Correct.  It's broken down by your Liver... hence, it's a POISON for your body.  
When I use something to sweeten or bake with, I use corn sugar which is 100% glucose instead of the 50/50 glucose/fructose which normal sugar is.
The sugar I use, while still sugar and still isn't healthy for you... it's just a bit better for you than regular sugar as your body can fully metabolize it and use it directly as energy which your cells require.  Table sugar has fructose, which is what is killing our species.

It is a hair more complicated.

Glucose is something our bodies want, be it either in pure form, or in the form of complex carbs. It is in fact the preferred food for brain and muscle cells, and those types of cells will eat it over literally any other kind of food, and be super-stressed without it.

Many things are broken down or metabolized by the liver, and this doesn't necessarily mean they are poisons. The liver breaks down fats and sugars, and then makes a complex molecule called glycogen out of them, which it likes to hold on to as an energy reserve, and it will release the simple sugars from as the body needs them. The connection to the liver here is that the liver is the primary organ equipped for dealing with complex molecules as energy sources, so while just about every cell can metabolize glucose (a single monomer sugar), fructose is reserved for the liver. The form of sugar we get in table sugar is 50% glucose and fructose because they are bonded together as a double sugar called sucrose.  

The fact that humans have well-established metabolic pathways for breaking down alcohol (fermented sugar), indicates that humans are genetically intended and expected to eat some measure of fruit in their diets.

The issue with the North American diet is that it contains sugar in quantities and purity our bodies never expected to encounter. We don't have genetic adaptations for dealing with high-fructose corn syrup, because it wasn't in our environment 100,000 years back.

It is sort of like the car runs on gasoline, but you don't want to fill the entire passenger cabin with it.

"Learning to meditate is in some ways analogous to learning how to drive a car. You have to start in an empty parking lot where everything is simple, and there is no pressures on you. Formal practice in stillness, such as sitting meditation, is analogous to the empty parking lot. Over time, however, you internalize the skills of driving and are able to drive on a quiet country road. Formal practice in motion, such as walking meditation, is the quiet country road. Eventually, driving becomes second nature. It requires little thinking or effort. You simply get in the car and driving happens. / At some point, you can attend to the business of life and still be in a meditatitve state just like you can listen to the radio while driving on a freeway at rush hour.

So, as your meditation gets deeper, you're able to achieve more and more profound states of concentration and tranquility. As it gets broader, you are able to maintain those states throughout more and more challenging and complex activities of life."

Av Shinzen Young, från boken The Science of Enlightenment.

Yeah, pretty much exactly this!

[Kree]

I found this great statement on meditation just now and wanted to share it here:

So it's possible to be in a meditative state while doing anything, but can the intellect be active while trying to phase? Just had this thought today, I think this may be the biggest problem for me. I can be focusing on the breath but I feel like I do this from an intellectual level and the focus is weak because of this. Is the goal of meditation to be able to switch off the intellect? If that's the case would focusing on emotion or something 'being level' be more effective?

[LightBeam]

Regarding sugar and other bad food - That's why my favorite word is MODERATION. However, you need to have self control, because sugar is very addictive and the brain ending up wanting more and more. Therefore, will power is required to adopt the moderation diet. I can eat one fruit and two squares of dark chocolate per day, but then I stop. That's all my added sugar and fructose for the day. Most people cant stop there and that becomes a problem.

[LightBeam]

So it's possible to be in a meditative state while doing anything, but can the intellect be active while trying to phase? Just had this thought today, I think this may be the biggest problem for me. I can be focusing on the breath but I feel like I do this from an intellectual level and the focus is weak because of this. Is the goal of meditation to be able to switch off the intellect? If that's the case would focusing on emotion or something 'being level' be more effective?

If you get relaxed enough, your breathing will slow down significantly to a point where you wont notice it any more. Don't focus on physical body activities. Imagine lifting up a few inches above your body being in the nonphysical. Imagine that you are just consciousness, a ball of energy submerged into the deep levels of higher vibratory levels. I would focus on a specific question that you may be searching for an answer. Then you may experience flickers, noises, visions that are related to your question. I think this is a good start.

[Kree]

If you get relaxed enough, your breathing will slow down significantly to a point where you wont notice it any more. Don't focus on physical body activities. Imagine lifting up a few inches above your body being in the nonphysical. Imagine that you are just consciousness, a ball of energy submerged into the deep levels of higher vibratory levels. I would focus on a specific question that you may be searching for an answer. Then you may experience flickers, noises, visions that are related to your question. I think this is a good start.

But what can my mind grab onto to stay there? I mean, if I'm watching a movie, the story, visuals, script keep my mind engaged and therefore focused. If I'm imagining I'm above my head, my mind will soon look for a way to stimulate itself, with this technique, what is there to that would make my mind want to stay there?

[LightBeam]

But what can my mind grab onto to stay there? I mean, if I'm watching a movie, the story, visuals, script keep my mind engaged and therefore focused. If I'm imagining I'm above my head, my mind will soon look for a way to stimulate itself, with this technique, what is there to that would make my mind want to stay there?

Ah, so your mind gets bored easy. Then the traditional meditation is not suitable for you. In that case imagine that you are hovering above your body for a while and then go up through the roof and imagine flying above your neighborhood. Since you are familiar with your neighborhood, try to visualize it and observe it. Feel the motion of flying. This by itself is an AP technique. When done for 20 minutes while falling asleep before bed and then let yourself fall asleep as you are experiencing the motion and visualization. In three, four weeks of doing that every night, you will eventually start getting awaken by vibrations in the middle of your sleep phase, you will become very aware, only your body will be fully asleep, so you can freely get out and explore the non-physical.


I am not good at prolonged meditation because my mind gets bored as well and if I am too awake I can never project fully, and so do many people. So many people coming to this forum say the same thing over and over. Why am I meditation for hours and for months and I cant AP. Well, because there are only a hand full of individuals who can fully AP out of meditative state. The more achievable thing is through actual AP technique, one of them explained above. But it must be done WHILE you are falling asleep and hold the visualization and motion going for at least 20 minutes. So, maybe you can try AP technique instead of traditional meditation.

[Kree]

Ah, so your mind gets bored easy. Then the traditional meditation is not suitable for you. In that case imagine that you are hovering above your body for a while and then go up through the roof and imagine flying above your neighborhood. Since you are familiar with your neighborhood, try to visualize it and observe it. Feel the motion of flying. This by itself is an AP technique. When done for 20 minutes while falling asleep before bed and then let yourself fall asleep as you are experiencing the motion and visualization. In three, four weeks of doing that every night, you will eventually start getting awaken by vibrations in the middle of your sleep phase, you will become very aware, only your body will be fully asleep, so you can freely get out and explore the non-physical.


I am not good at prolonged meditation because my mind gets bored as well and if I am too awake I can never project fully, and so do many people. So many people coming to this forum say the same thing over and over. Why am I meditation for hours and for months and I cant AP. Well, because there are only a hand full of individuals who can fully AP out of meditative state. The more achievable thing is through actual AP technique, one of them explained above. But it must be done WHILE you are falling asleep and hold the visualization and motion going for at least 20 minutes. So, maybe you can try AP technique instead of traditional meditation.

So I guess your answer to my title question is phasing. I really like the sound of this technique as it should keep my mind engaged and maybe not strain it too much as I'm visualizing where I've already been unlike most visualization methods. Will try it just as you described. Thanks.

As someone who gets bored easily, have you been able to learn to phase whenever you want despite not being good to meditate deeply?

[LightBeam]

So I guess your answer to my title question is phasing. I really like the sound of this technique as it should keep my mind engaged and maybe not strain it too much as I'm visualizing where I've already been unlike most visualization methods. Will try it just as you described. Thanks.

As someone who gets bored easily, have you been able to learn to phase whenever you want despite not being good to meditate deeply?

Well, I like to call it AP, I always have. I think what people describe as phasing may be done during the day and it is like a prolonged deep meditation. If you project from that state, that's fine, the end result is the same, but as I said I cant project if I am too awake, no matter how deep I go in meditation. I may be able to see visions, hear  noises, but I can never fully AP. My brain needs to be asleep. Through my AP technique which is done ONLY WHILE falling asleep (other time of the day wont work)
then your mind gets adjusted into a higher frequency and the vebies wake your consiosness sometime during your sleep cycle. Your body and brain will be asleep, but you will be very aware, so you can project easyly and stay there for a long time.
You can select any place and motion, whatever will hold your interest. Touch objects, feel tectures, see the colors, smell, run, fly up, skii, swim, etc. I have even imagined I am at Hogwarts LOL. I have APd there a few times. Whatever place will keep you interested. If you find yourself falling asleep too fast, then go to bed about half hour before you know you will get sleepy, take your favorite sleeping position and transpot yourself to the place of choice.