What's the worst suffering you have seen in the astral?

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Hi all I was wondering what is the worst suffering you have witnessed in the astral by a being or thing hurting another being or thing? And not as importantly, any suffering.

Thanks, peace.

[majour ka]

Hiya, Im sure unless you dreamt it or imagined it you wouldn't see anything like that?

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

I don't believe this stuff that there is no suffering in the afterlife. I mean I can only imagine if a really emotionally cray, psychotic person dies and what kind of sick things he might inflict on himself and others until he realizes that it's all empty.

Thoughts please.

Peace.

[Lionheart]

 Go and experience it for yourself, than you will find what the truth is. Right now you are thinking with your current realities point of view. You need to go to the NPR with an open mind. Allow the truth to show itself to you.

Question it after you experience it! 

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Go and experience it for yourself, than you will find what the truth is. Right now you are thinking with your current realities point of view. You need to go to the NPR with an open mind. Allow the truth to show itself to you.

Question it after you experience it! 

Lame.

[Lionheart]

Lame.

Do you wish other people to do all the work for you? We find the answers we seek ourselves. This is why we are all being led down this road.

Ever since you have been here you have constantly asked others there thoughts on things Astral related. But we never here yours. Tell us what you are finding or seeing. Don't always ask us, you can't live the NPR through other people. You have to find your own truths there.

Thoughts Please. Peace

That was my thought!

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Do you wish other people to do all the work for you? We find the answers we seek ourselves. This is why we are all being led down this road.

Thoughts Please. Peace

That was my thought!

I think your biased on this question. I think you just don't want to admit to others that there is suffering, or can have suffering in the astral. I think most all other questions you or some else would answer here, but this question I think could easily bring fear to the mind of newbies. I ask questions here sometimes and have never gotten such an answer. Also I have seriously tried to do AP, but I have health problems so it effects my sleep too much and lowers my immune system too much. So I can't really do it for health reasons. Unless I take a psychedelic that might work, but that is a whole another story.

Peace.

[Lionheart]

Also I have seriously tried to do AP, but I have health problems so it effects my sleep too much and lowers my immune system too much. So I can't really do it for health reasons. Unless I take a psychedelic that might work, but that is a whole another story.
Peace

Thank you for telling the truth. Now I know where these all of these questions are coming from.

But I stick to my guns in saying that you really have to experience it yourself. If you wish to call me biased, then so be it. If you wish to think of the NPR as a evil place with all kinds of suffering, then that is up to you as well. The only thing that will change your mind is seeing for yourself.

In my life I have lived by the words "I believe 1/2 of what I hear, but everything I see"!  

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Thank you for telling the truth. Now I know where these all of these questions are coming from.

But I stick to my guns in saying that you really have to experience it yourself. If you wish to call me biased, then so be it. If you wish to think of the NPR as a evil place with all kinds of suffering, then that is up to you as well. The only thing that will change your mind is seeing for yourself.

In my life I have lived by the words "I believe 1/2 of what I hear, but everything I see"!  

I have experienced the paranormal first hand. So I know the likelihood that a multiverse is pretty high. OK so your biased. If anyone else has the balls to tell the truth then please do. Or just PM me and tell me.

BTW I do believe there can be suffering in the afterlife and on a large scale there is suffering but only according to your karma. You must get what you want, this is the universal rule. If one desires anger and evil then that is what they will get. The universe is not biased. Thus when psychos die then they should naturally gravitate to like minded psychos so they can all kill each other and work out there desires and see they are empty. It seems only natural that there is suffering in the lower astral realms, while the higher astral realms are feel of such beliefs and feelings. So when you say "If you wish to think of the NPR as a evil place with all kinds of suffering, then that is up to you as well." I must say that depends on what realm you are talking about.  Also when you say "Thank you for telling the truth." This shows that you probably have seen suffering on the other side. Obviously hollow hells are called hell for no reason, even though they are hollow.

Peace.

[Lionheart]

I have experienced the paranormal first hand. So I know the likelihood that a multiverse is pretty high. OK so your biased. If anyone else has the balls to tell the truth then please do. Or just PM me and tell me.

BTW I do believe there can be suffering in the afterlife and on a large scale there is suffering but only according to your karma. You must get what you want, this is the universal rule. If one desires anger and evil then that is what they will get. The universe is not biased. Thus when psychos die then they should naturally gravitate to like minded psychos so they can all kill each other and work out there desires and see they are empty. It seems only natural that there is suffering in the lower astral realms, while the higher astral realms are feel of such beliefs and feelings. So when you say "If you wish to think of the NPR as a evil place with all kinds of suffering, then that is up to you as well." I must say that depends on what realm you are talking about.  Also when you say "Thank you for telling the truth." This shows that you probably have seen suffering on the other side. Obviously hollow hells are called hell for no reason, even though they are hollow.

Peace.

Oh my, where do I start.

Thank you for telling the truth about the fact that you have not Astral projected before. Believe me, this speaks volumes!

You are thinking from a Human point of view of this reality. This world is for experiencing, the good, the bad and the ugly. It's how you handle those three things that shows what kind of person you are or how you are progressing in your life's paths.

In the NPR there is no good or evil. These are human traits, human labels. Just like here there are experiences and once again how you handle them shows your true level of development. The reason you need to experience this for yourself is so you can get away from this Human way of thinking. We here are the ones that give labels to everything. There is no Black or White Magic, the color or direction is made purely by the INTENT of the practitioner.

Many people on Coast to Coast Radio have tried to tell George Noory the same thing, but then he reverts back to the Human way of thinking again. Let go of that, learn the truth first, then you can question it later.

Psycho is a Human label, good, bad, ugly, again these are Human labels. When we talk about this practice and needing to change our mindset to be able to project at will, this is exactly what we are talking about. You need to get away from all these Human labels to be able to see the truth.

This is exactly the reason why we tell people it's so hard to talk about the NPR. It's because we don't have anything to reference it to here on Earth. It's an entirely different way of thinking, it's an entirely different way of doing things. It doesn't follow any of this Earth's laws of Physics. That in itself should show you how unique it is. There is no need to travel to a foreign destination. You don't hop on a train or plane. You think a thought and you are there. This is why when people awaken in SP they can create all these monsters and Demons. Fear kicks in and it happens. Thought = action in the NPR.

There I just had the balls to tell you the truth. Now it's your turn to man up and experience it. You can't live it through us and you will never understand a word I said until you do. If you have a condition that won't allow you to project, then believe it or not, that's for a good reason as well. Everything has a purpose. Perhaps yours is to overcome this fear.  

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

In the NPR there is no good or evil. These are human traits, human labels. Just like here there are experiences and once again how you handle them shows your true level of development. The reason you need to experience this for yourself is so you can get away from this Human way of thinking. We here are the ones that give labels to everything. There is no Black or White Magic, the color or direction is made purely by the INTENT of the practitioner.

Many people on Coast to Coast Radio have tried to tell George Noory the same thing, but then he reverts back to the Human way of thinking again. Let go of that, learn the truth first, then you can question it later.

BTW I do have an idea of what the astral is like through the lucid dreams I have had.

Psycho is a Human label, good, bad, ugly, again these are Human labels. When we talk about this practice and needing to change our mindset to be able to project at will, this is exactly what we are talking about. You need to get away from all these Human labels to be able to see the truth.

Some knowledge and understanding is better then no knowledge and understanding.

There I just had the balls to tell you the truth. Now it's your turn to man up and experience it. You can't live it through us and you will never understand a word I said until you do.

BS, if that is the case then all the astral projecting authors of the past should have only written books for other astral projectors.

Also that is not exactly the answer I was looking for. I was more looking for how serious can the suffering get for those who create their own demons and suffering for themselves.

If you have a condition that won't allow you to project, then believe it or not, that's for a good reason as well. Everything has a purpose. Perhaps yours is to overcome this fear.  

I have no fear of the astral. In fact I was eager to get out of my body.

[catmeow]

My opinion?  Yes of course there is suffering in the astral. There is also great joy. Just read all of those hell-like NDEs. Of course there is suffering.  The astral is infinitely pliable to thought, so any negative thoughts can easily manifest. There are so many people with mental problems here in the physical world that I really do wonder how they will cope in the astral, where thoughts become realities so much more readily. There is likewise the capacity for great joy if your mindset is that way inclined.

I have been to belief system territories which were extremely warm, friendly and inviting (which I really didn't want to leave) and I have been to BSTs where the inhabitants, in my opinion, weren't having a great time. By and large I haven't felt threatened at all in these BSTs, a bit like being a UN "observer", free to explore without getting too involved. Yes there is suffering. The worst I have seen has been people trapped by thought and behaviour patterns which locked them into very worthless lifestyles. Also people trapped in very subservient and demeaning lives. So a bit like the physical world, but harder to escape from.

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Thank you for your insights catmeow, someone else has been honest at least. But what does BSTs stand for?

[Stillwater]

BST-

Short for "Belief Systems Territory", or a projected environment which people construct in the nonphysical out of their own expectations of what will be there.

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

BST-

Short for "Belief Systems Territory", or a projected environment which people construct in the nonphysical out of their own expectations of what will be there.

Thanks.

[majour ka]

Im certain with out doubt that the world we live in when we leave this one "The spirit world" is a subjective reality like much like this one, that is to say we create our own surroundings to some degree and also it still must be subject to cause and affect. So we can still suffer to some degree, but only on an emotional sense since we wont have a physical body and we will only create that suffering our selves. Not inflicted by anyone else.

The "astral world" is a reflection of our emotional and subconsciousness. its where we dream and AP so we can manifest experiences there ourselves consciously or subconsciously  and I expect to some degree we might experience there an aspect of a collective consciousness, but that im not certain of. But what we see feel or sense in that area of consciousness is that which we need to face or helps our own growth and understanding, that our mind creates for us.

The suffering I think you maybe referring to is the pain of reflection maybe a mass murderer may have to face by understanding the hurt they have caused and feeling it directly. I understand from the spirt teachers and inspirers that the very energetic frequency that such a person would find them selves in and attuned to through the creation of their own light  (or lack of) and vibration is suffering enough in its self and until there is a shift in their understanding and consciousness they wont or cant move to a more enjoyable area of existence.
So we very much create the surroundings we find ourselves in the next life while we are here on earth and the like minds we mix with by building our light and vibrational frequency here.
The spirt world gave the seven principles of spiritualism through the trance mediumship of Emma Hardinge Britten in the 1800s in a seance in the states. The communicating spirit was well known social reformist Robert Marcus Owen from wales G.B who invented/formed the co-operative society. The principals were not rules as in religious dogma but ideas by which a person can live to enlighten their life and mind. One of those principals was "compensation and retribution hereafter for deeds good and evil done on earth" Suggesting that we will pay for in some way or reap the rewards of our behaviour when we reach the spirit world. I believe that most likely the worst pain and suffering we might inflict/suffer or witness would be here in this world not the next...One of the other principles the spirit world gave us through Robert Owen was "eternal progress open to every human soul" So we have eternity to get it right...and all are assisted in doing so.
We create the place and experience that we experience in the next life by our actions and thoughts now, just as we do now i this world. I hope that helps with some food for thought for your question.

You most likely find that some answers to some questions will sometimes offer some sense, but you wont evr really know it until it crystallises in your own mind. So all lessons/teachings are only sign posts to your understanding...I think thats why Lion heart was really trying to help you by encouraging to find it for yourself knowing how joyful and amazing you will find it  

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Im certain with out doubt that the world we live in when we leave this one "The spirit world" is a subjective reality like much like this one, that is to say we create our own surroundings to some degree and also it still must be subject to cause and affect.

I agree.

So we can still suffer to some degree, but only on an emotional sense since we wont have a physical body and we will only create that suffering our selves. Not inflicted by anyone else.

Well I do think it's possible to inflict suffering on others based on NDE's I have read. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

In the end I am much more concerned about others than myself right now.

The "astral world" is a reflection of our emotional and subconsciousness. its where we dream and AP so we can manifest experiences there ourselves consciously or subconsciously  and I expect to some degree we might experience there an aspect of a collective consciousness, but that im not certain of. But what we see feel or sense in that area of consciousness is that which we need to face or helps our own growth and understanding, that our mind creates for us.

I agree.

The suffering I think you maybe referring to is the pain of reflection maybe a mass murderer may have to face by understanding the hurt they have caused and feeling it directly. I understand from the spirt teachers and inspirers that the very energetic frequency that such a person would find them selves in and attuned to through the creation of their own light  (or lack of) and vibration is suffering enough in its self and until there is a shift in their understanding and consciousness they wont or cant move to a more enjoyable area of existence.
So we very much create the surroundings we find ourselves in the next life while we are here on earth and the like minds we mix with by building our light and vibrational frequency here.
The spirt world gave the seven principles of spiritualism through the trance mediumship of Emma Hardinge Britten in the 1800s in a seance in the states. The communicating spirit was well known social reformist Robert Marcus Owen from wales G.B who invented/formed the co-operative society. The principals were not rules as in religious dogma but ideas by which a person can live to enlighten their life and mind. One of those principals was "compensation and retribution hereafter for deeds good and evil done on earth" Suggesting that we will pay for in some way or reap the rewards of our behaviour when we reach the spirit world. I believe that most likely the worst pain and suffering we might inflict/suffer or witness would be here in this world not the next...One of the other principles the spirit world gave us through Robert Owen was "eternal progress open to every human soul" So we have eternity to get it right...and all are assisted in doing so.
We create the place and experience that we experience in the next life by our actions and thoughts now, just as we do now i this world. I hope that helps with some food for thought for your question.

You most likely find that some answers to some questions will sometimes offer some sense, but you wont evr really know it until it crystallises in your own mind. So all lessons/teachings are only sign posts to your understanding...I think thats why Lion heart was really trying to help you by encouraging to find it for yourself knowing how joyful and amazing you will find it  

I agree what everything you said. Thanks for your help.

Peace and light.

[Szaxx]

The wall of souls deep in the badlands (named from many nightmares). Its an immense structure made from those who pointlessly maimed, raped, murdered...
These are doing time for their sins in a place where they can only leave once they suffered that which they did unto others.
Its a very dark place in the BST's .
All tried to repent, all believed this is where they'd end up. Mixed with their own kind. Sliding naked like slugs in the cold and dark over each other, they form a wall that stretched into infinity, screaming their self pity into your mind. They're the leaches sucking the blood of a newborn until dry. They have no compassion only hate and rage. Deciet and lies emanating into your thoughts to get closer. The rank stench of rot and excrement in the slime they're trapped in.  The sorrow in the rivers of tears leaked from the tormented, the suffering they did being returned a thousand fold.
Their torment is their own. Filth from all kinds of existance. All competing for some glimmer of hope to escape from themselves.

A guided tour to hell.
The words hardly scratch the surface of the feelings of pure terror within.
I'll never go back. I wasn't taken deeper. My thoughts were enough for the guides to remove me.
Its been 40 or so years since then and still its the only place I fear to revisit.
I had 3 guides at that time. Never had that many again. Its impossible to reach alone. Unless you're a ruthless murderer....

[Xanth]

The only suffering is the suffering you bring with you.

Think about that for a while.

Ironically, that also applies directly for this physical reality as well as any non-physical reality.   

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

The wall of souls deep in the badlands (named from many nightmares). Its an immense structure made from those who pointlessly maimed, raped, murdered...
These are doing time for their sins in a place where they can only leave once they suffered that which they did unto others.
Its a very dark place in the BST's .
All tried to repent, all believed this is where they'd end up. Mixed with their own kind. Sliding naked like slugs in the cold and dark over each other, they form a wall that stretched into infinity, screaming their self pity into your mind. They're the leaches sucking the blood of a newborn until dry. They have no compassion only hate and rage. Deciet and lies emanating into your thoughts to get closer. The rank stench of rot and excrement in the slime they're trapped in.  The sorrow in the rivers of tears leaked from the tormented, the suffering they did being returned a thousand fold.
Their torment is their own. Filth from all kinds of existance. All competing for some glimmer of hope to escape from themselves.

A guided tour to hell.
The words hardly scratch the surface of the feelings of pure terror within.
I'll never go back. I wasn't taken deeper. My thoughts were enough for the guides to remove me.
Its been 40 or so years since then and still its the only place I fear to revisit.
I had 3 guides at that time. Never had that many again. Its impossible to reach alone. Unless you're a ruthless murderer....

You obviously went to a place and seen things that either most other astral projectors have never seen or they are afraid of ever telling anyone of such an evil retched place. I have read NDE's of much more greater horror than that. So I was just trying to confirm and make sure that belief is in line here. So this is just one more piece to the puzzle to help me understand the bigger picture. Thanks, I think most astral projectors are not evil people so they naturally don't end up in such places. Most astral projectors simply don't have the energetic signature to bring them that low in the frequency spectrum. I am sure most astral projectors are for the most part good people.

Anyway so thanks for being so honest Szaxx

Peace, love, and light.

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

The only suffering is the suffering you bring with you.

Think about that for a while.

Ironically, that also applies directly for this physical reality.   

But can't one gain karma in the afterlife?

I agree with the last statement.

Peace.

[Bedeekin]

Well I do think it's possible to inflict suffering on others based on NDE's I have read. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion is a much overused and misunderstood 'saying' amongst young people today.

When you say 'In my opinion' or that you are entitled to your own opinion it actually counts for nothing... zip... nada... it means NOTHING.

An opinion is whether you like cheese or think a painting is good... it is not a basis for reality... or your own reality... it is based upon a preference of what you want to belief under your very limited knowledge base and experience.

If you said you in your opinion the sky is blue because god craps blue jellybeans and the photons break up the jelly into reflected and refracted light then your opinion is as it stand a bunch of horse manure.

So your opinion as it stands at your current state of being when it comes to nonphysical is wrong.

You ask the most bizarre questions that are simple to those who actually experience the nonphysical and then have a gamut of theories of your own...

Like this...

I have experienced the paranormal first hand. So I know the likelihood that a multiverse is pretty high. OK so your biased. If anyone else has the balls to tell the truth then please do. Or just PM me and tell me.

BTW I do believe there can be suffering in the afterlife and on a large scale there is suffering but only according to your karma. You must get what you want, this is the universal rule. If one desires anger and evil then that is what they will get. The universe is not biased. Thus when psychos die then they should naturally gravitate to like minded psychos so they can all kill each other and work out there desires and see they are empty. It seems only natural that there is suffering in the lower astral realms, while the higher astral realms are feel of such beliefs and feelings. So when you say "If you wish to think of the NPR as a evil place with all kinds of suffering, then that is up to you as well." I must say that depends on what realm you are talking about.  Also when you say "Thank you for telling the truth." This shows that you probably have seen suffering on the other side. Obviously hollow hells are called hell for no reason, even though they are hollow.

Peace.

You really do not have a clue.

You have got upset and consequently been rude to the most experienced members when they answer truthfully and agreed with the answers that best befit your 'opinions'. "i agree" "I agree" "thankyou for saying what I thought" etc.

I couldn't care less whether you agree with me.. nor do I necessarily want you to. I don't personally answer people to please their egos.

Goodbye.

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion is a much overused and misunderstood 'saying' amongst young people today.

When you say 'In my opinion' or that you are entitled to your own opinion it actually counts for nothing... zip... nada... it means NOTHING.

An opinion is whether you like cheese or think a painting is good... it is not a basis for reality... or your own reality... it is based upon a preference of what you want to belief under your very limited knowledge base and experience.

If you said you in your opinion the sky is blue because god craps blue jellybeans and the photons break up the jelly into reflected and refracted light then your opinion is as it stand a bunch of horse manure.

The main reason I say "IMO" is that I don't want others to think I will try to impose my opinion. At least that is what it can imply. Meaning this is just my opinion take it or leave it and it's OK if you have your opinion.

So your opinion as it stands at your current state of being when it comes to nonphysical is wrong. You ask the most bizarre questions that are simple to those who actually experience the nonphysical and then have a gamut of theories of your own...

You really do not have a clue.

I am not a total newbie when it comes to the astral. I have read many things. And I don't make things up about the astral. I know, I know it's not the same as experiencing it. But I don't have a choice for health reasons. So sorry if I can't go there my self. Would you rather I shut up my search for understanding and knowledge. I can't stop seeking truth and reality even though I can't AP. I will not let that stop me.

What I have learned about our multiverse is from others. So if you say I have no clue and if that is correct then the other things I have learned from experienced people needs to be edited. But what I have learned is from people who have had first hand experience. I didn't rely on my own understanding to get as far as I have in my search for truth and reality. So if I disagree with you about something it's only because someone else who experienced the astral didn't interpret it correctly and then lead me partially astray on that point. So don't beat me up, I am trying to understand this better and it does not help if you are mad at me. I only expected that others hurt others because of what I have read from others that have experienced the astral.

You have got upset and consequently been rude to the most experienced members when they answer truthfully and agreed with the answers that best befit your 'opinions'. "i agree" "I agree" "thankyou for saying what I thought" etc.

I was not particularly upset. I never said anything mean.

I don't know who are the experienced members here. Sorry there was no ceremony or test to find out when I signed up to this forum.

I couldn't care less whether you agree with me.. nor do I necessarily want you to. I don't personally answer people to please their egos.

Goodbye.

I don't know what to do with that piece of information other than that your probably mad at me for not listening to an experienced member. Well I don't want to disrespect any experienced members here and I never particularly did. I just want people here to be honest and tell the truth. majour ka had the courage to tell the truth. And I thank him for his bravery. That does not necessarily mean lionheart or you or anyone else is not brave enough to tell. You just may have not seen such a thing yet possibly. You don't have evil karma to bring you to such a level. I don't really know what people have seen or not seen. But I would think someone would have seen something like what I have read about in NDE's and other astral experiences other places.

Me and Lionheart have gotten into a disagreement before without anybody getting mad over it. It was about the future of astral projection here as a society with technology being able to induce OBE's at will. But it was all good in the end.

If your willing to let go of your defensiveness perhaps we can talk about the experiences I have read that make me think that others hurt other people in the astral and that people can suffer a lot.

Peace.

[Xanth]

But can't one gain karma in the afterlife?

I agree with the last statement.

Peace.

I don't believe in the existence of karma.  Never have.
I view it as just another rule whereby they threaten you with something 'bad' should you not do something 'good'.

[Xanth]

If your willing to let go of your defensiveness perhaps we can talk about the experiences I have read that make me think that others hurt other people in the astral and that people can suffer a lot.

This is what Bedeekin is talking about.

Forget about what experiences you've "read"... they're ultimately nothing more than mere entertainment for anyone who isn't the person who directly experienced it (aka: the author).
Their experiences don't help you one bit.  This is what people need to realize.  You CAN NOT have someone else's experience, so reading about them is futile.

Work on experiencing things for yourself, THAT is the only meterstick which matters.