Hi everyone,
I've just recently started studying OBE's and reading peoples experiences and it reminds me of lucid dreaming. After studying lucid dreams it seems like people are mixing and matching their experiences with OBE's/Lucid dreaming. Some even say you can go into a OBE from a lucid dream. Now this makes me wonder are you really having an OBE or a lucid dream?
To ground yourself in a lucid dream you rub your hands together, tell yourself to see clearly if its not clear, you can fly, float, etc. In a lucid dream you can also conjure up helpers, go to different planes of reality, whatever you think will happen, just like they say in OBE's.
So how do you know your in an OBE and not a lucid dream? The one difference I do see though is some say when they roll out of their bodies they are in their rooms seeing themselves laying there. But from a short read it seems like this is just the starting point of your journey just like a lucid dream, you start somewhere interesting or uninteresting and then you can literally plant a seed and close your eyes and imagine a place you want to go and when you open your eyes your there.
You should probably try the search feature of the forum.
There has been LOTS of discussion on this already. :)
I'll just leave this link here for you: http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/labeling-experiences-of-the-non-physical/
I explain in it why, in the grand scheme of things, labeling your experiences (lucid dreams, astral projections, etc), and your question in general, is a completely meaningless endevour.
If you have any questions, please let me know. :)
there should be a sticky on this question
This question has been answered countless times and probably causes more disagreements then anything else here.
Everyone interprets what is happening in their own way.
I don't think a "sticky" would solve anything.
I just did a search, using the upper right hand corner search engine using the words "OBE or Lucid Dream" and came across 168 pages of posts.
I have also found the difference of Lucid dream and AP through this way. You can also find the difference through this way.
Ultimately, the conclusion I believe that we can all draw from the many discussions (ARGUMENTS!! LoL)... is that this isn't a question you can ask others. You have to (you SHOULD, in fact) come to a conclusion yourself based upon your own direct experiences.
This actually goes for everything else as well.
Not an easy thing to define, I must say. People might say: OOBE is real, LD is a dream. But the border between them is blurry. Some LD can show you the "reality" better than OOBE.
Quote from: embrace on January 14, 2013, 20:54:54
Not an easy thing to define, I must say. People might say: OOBE is real, LD is a dream. But the border between them is blurry. Some LD can show you the "reality" better than OOBE.
What exactly IS a dream? Nobody knows what a dream is...
So don't ya think saying that we know where a border between those two experiences are, sounds kind of silly? How can we know a border exists somewhere we can't even define? :)
Once you accept the above, once you accept the concept that we, as a species, has ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what a "dream" is... then you can begin to look at your own experiences for answers. <-- This is called 'emptying your cup'... it MUST occur before you are to learn anything.
Xanth- I do hear ya!
The only reason I would like to think dreams have nothing to do with the out of body experiences I have is because of the content in my dreams. I kill people... sometimes my own family is after me.
You're spot on though. I love lucid dreams because I can just "raise my awareness" It really boils down to awareness I think. But what do I know? Honestly I am still a noob at this myself but I manage to have loads of experiences. The will to learn is there and it always will be. :-)
Quote from: Xanth on January 14, 2013, 21:31:00
So don't ya think saying that we know where a border between those two experiences are, sounds kind of silly?
That's exactly what I did NOT say, my friend :) I said that the boarded between two was blurry - meaning, I agree with you.
Quote from: AstralCody on January 14, 2013, 23:36:12
The only reason I would like to think dreams have nothing to do with the out of body experiences I have is because of the content in my dreams. I kill people... sometimes my own family is after me.
the content has noting to do with it really.
The whole affair can be summed up using analogies to computer games or films.
A dream is like you are watching a film starring yourself that has a preordained plot line. You can only watch and be pulled in emotionally.
A Lucid dream is like watching a film that you are starring in that suddenly becomes 3D and high def. you can suddenly control the film partially but can't really change the preordained plot-line to a massive degree.
Full projection/OOBE/AP is like arriving at the set of the same movie... you don't need to follow the story line, you aren't bound by the director and you aren't a participant in the movie anymore... You can chose to be. You can also visit the other sets and films in the studio... or walk out of the studio and visit others and anywhere in between.
Quote from: Bedeekin on January 15, 2013, 10:29:47
the content has noting to do with it really.
The whole affair can be summed up using analogies to computer games or films.
A dream is like you are watching a film starring yourself that has a preordained plot line. You can only watch and be pulled in emotionally.
A Lucid dream is like watching a film that you are starring in that suddenly becomes 3D and high def. you can suddenly control the film partially but can't really change the preordained plot-line to a massive degree.
Full projection/OOBE/AP is like arriving at the set of the same movie... you don't need to follow the story line, you aren't bound by the director and you aren't a participant in the movie anymore... You can chose to be. You can also visit the other sets and films in the studio... or walk out of the studio and visit others and anywhere in between.
Now that should be "stickied"! :wink:
Another excelllent job at explaining that which confuses so many.
Great job Bedeekin! :-)
Bedeekin, that's probably the best way anyone has ever explained it to me.
So I am most definitely creating my dreams but can't participate in them? Or is it more like subconscious thoughts making a "movie" and I get to watch it without participating.
I thank you for taking your time to post that.
Namaste.
The movie thing was just an analogy. I could have best used a multiplayer computer game and that would have been closer in nature.
You can participate in them yes... but you have to know you are dreaming or you just get swept along by the narrative; You run from the T-rex with your fathers face... when the dream becomes Lucid you realise the ridiculousness of a T-Rex being there to run from, never mind its face.
All the Lucid-Dreams I've had take place directly having sussed out I was dreaming. The dream becomes suddenly more real, high definition... much more vivid. The characters are more alive and there is a distinct feeling of utter elation and wellbeing. It is directly following a narrative though... the same one controlling its content... ME. I can chose to become wrapped up in the narrative again (turning it back into a normal dream) or become more objective and focused. The more objectively focused one becomes the closer one gets to achieving the quality of a full projection. I either do this or sometimes wake up from a lucid dream and find myself in SP... whereupon I make a separation back into the environment I left. In this case I use the 'separation' metaphor I am more used to.
In other words a Dream can become a Lucid Dream and a LD can be gear shifted into an OOBE.
They are all the same thing - NONPHYSICAL - just you are perceiving them with different levels of awareness, subjectivity, focus and subconsciousness.
Thanks everyone for the info! After posting this I realize how silly it was to classify the experiences as something different. They are all special and I enjoy them immensely.