Ego / Identity while out-of-body...

[RJA]

I'm curious to hear others experiences on how much of your identity you seem to retain while out of body.

Most of my obes begin with me projecting to RTZ, and once I'm out of my body I almost always begin with a few common thoughts.  First I almost always think something to the effect of "Good!  I'm out again!"  and after that I usually remember to try to increase my lucidity, and I usually think something like, "What should I do know?" or "Now, what was it I was going to try to do?"

I'm clearly aware that I'm "me" and that I'm out of body again, and I think back to plans I had made in the physical regarding what to do or where to go.  However, it strikes me as very interesting that beyond that, I seem to take very little of my identity with me.  My name, my job, what I did yesterday or will do tomorrow, what day of the week it is, etc. - these things never cross my mind.  Although I might see my wife there in bed, or pass my kids' rooms, they don't enter my thoughts beyond that.

In short, although I am "me", I am pretty darn detached from anything having to do with my normal, physical existence.   It seems that although I am conscious of my existence and am operating based on my "will" I seem to have left most of my ego / identity behind.

So, who exactly am I, when I'm out-of-body?  

Curious to hear others experiences and thoughts on the subject.

[MisterJingo]

While OBE (RTZ and AP) on the whole I am what I seem to be while 'in body'. I say on the whole because on some occasions my awareness is dimmed and so perhaps are my 'day-to-day' memories.
I've experienced many OBEs where I have full awareness of all my 'awake' memories and associations with other people. Such as trying to pull family members OBE, having conversations (although it seemed more a conversation with his mind) with my Dad while OBE etc. On some OBEs (usually the dimmer ones) I've worried I was actually still in body but not fully awake, so am worried about what family members (who at the time I perceive to be in the room with me) will be thinking of my actions (like unsuccessfully trying to push myself through windows). This assumes quite intimate knowledge with areas of my waking mind used when dealing with social interaction.
What's more interesting is that state specific memory usually means in significantly altered states of consciousness, we don't carry over 'hang-ups' and social memories. Such as when drunk we usually have lowered inhibitions (because learnt memories when baseline are generally not carried over), and so we act differently. As this is not the case when OBE (for me at least), it might have interesting implications for OBE experiences (in regards to altered states of consciousness in the OBE state).

[jalef]

im my experience this greatly depends on the state of mind during projection. e.g. if you project spontaneously out of a dream you will have a very dreamy consciousness and it will be the dream you (i dont like this ones because then the whole OBE is like a dream). if you manage to maintain a great deal of waking consciousness during projection you will mostly be also the normal waking you.

[kiwibonga]

RJA, you've got it

This is something I've been thinking about a lot, and which has come to make me understand altered states of consciousness a lot better.

Visualization while wide awake, dreams, lucid dreams seem to all belong to the same group -- there is an "arbitrary reality" mind somewhere back there that we can't seem to handle too well... We'll input some info when we try to visualize something and it'll respond appropriately with images.

When we go into trance, we are much closer to this "background" mind, it seems that the images that are normally in the back become the foreground.

Add to that the "qualities" you bring into dreams... For example, you are in this alternate consciousness of yours, and you do not always have these particular reflexes of the physical consciousness such as fear, doubt, or even the intent to memorize.

Being able to shift your focus so that both the "arbitrary reality mind" and the physical consciousness work together is the key to many, many extra-sensory skills.

When you are out of body and entirely conscious, you have successfully brought the full extent of your human qualities with you -- if you don't, you won't have as much control.

This is the reason it's so hard to have control at the beginning... People come here and ask "what was that thing I saw?" And people reply "well, why didn't you simply ask while out of body?" -- the person did not forget to ask, nor did they "not think of it" -- they simply did not have the control required to make this decision.

The more control you have, the more control you actually have on both the physical and the subtle bodies... This means that there are great chances that you won't be able to control only the subtle body, and hence will have to "paralyze" the physical consciousness in order to experience the "beyond."

Many times, people will have extremely vivid, lifelike etheric projections where they are stuck in the physical, and when they manage to move, they wake up, because they are moving their physical body.

Beyond being able to trance, beyond being able to induce out of body experiences, there is a lot more work to be done on raw control, on the raw ability to express your will and transform thoughts into action, by being close enough to the physical that you remember the experience and bring along your logical mind, but by being detached enough that you have the freedom required to do what it is you want to do.

I have yet to find sources that explain it that way... Some say that "the dream mind is always active even when awake" ; but they still insist that dreams and lucid dreams are completely separate events from projections, when in fact everything seems to indicate that they are all the same phenomenon at different levels of memory, awareness, lucidity.

The phasing model is very close to this, but it's very... Abstract... Vague...

[Kriztenzen]

What we truly are while out of body, is a very fascinating question, i think. To me it is a question of progression, or if you will, evolution.

I remember clearly, when I first got into all this metaphysical stuff, I seemed to be much less than my normal conscious self, during early out of body experinces.

As I gained more experience of this state of being, I had full consciousness, much like in the waking state.

In later experiences, I feel like I am much more than my normal conscious self, super-conscious?

Anyways, what we are during out of body, seems to change quite strongly with time and practice.

[RJA]

Kiwibonga,

Thanks for that post.  That is quite interesting in that although I've had obes for a few years I haven't really worked at all on improving my awareness/technique.  Also, aside from a few times when I went from a lucid dream to obe, all of my obes have occurred when I've awakened from a dream in a state where I could then project.  i.e. none from a waking trance state.  Thus my level of lucidity has been similar in all of my obes.

I'll ponder a bit on those thoughts regarding the relationship between my waking mind and that "background mind".  

Kiztenzen,

I guess what you're saying then is that as you practiced and got better at this you were then more in control while obe, so that the difference in your consciousness between your normal waking state and obe state was something you could be aware of.  

I guess in that sense, using kiwibonga's terminology, you are able in the obe state, to see both the contents of that background mind and your conscious mind and reconcile them per se to a higher degree.

[RJA]

This question of mind regarding identity and ego, for me is also a question of how the obe state relates to that which we will encounter after death.

It's interesting to note that most religions and spiritual paths and mystical schools at some point involve the idea of banishing the ego.  The ego is what binds us to this phsyical existence inside of this body we're in.

In this life I'm Rob.  I'm 42 and I have an aging Mom, an old Dad who has passed on, a wife about my age and two kids in elementary school.  I'm a middle-class, white American.  My job is a run-o-the-mill technology job.  And as I pass through this physical existence the role I play, at least consciously, is strongly tied to these characteristics and with regard to my family my ego/identity depends strongly on my parents being old than I and my kids being younger.

But clearly, 100 years from now, when my parents and I and my kids have all passed on then our age relativity need not exist.  i.e. after death my parents will not be perpetually senior citizens, while my wife and I remain in our forties and our children remain children.

And if I have lived other lives (and even if I haven't), then presumably at some point after death, I will shed the identity of "Rob" and recognize my existence as a spirit in a broader scope in which this life was just a chapter, and my current relationships something vastly different than those of son, husband, and father as they appear while in the physical.

So I guess for me, as I progress down this path, I hope to be able to understand who I am when I am not "Rob" and to understand my existence from a more distant perspective.

[Mustardseed]

Wow what an interesting thread. This has happened so often to me that I almost ignore it. I have however learned some tricks. It seems that if my exit comes after a very concentrated effort and affirmations, I more often than not keep my identity. If I project from a dream I rarely do. This is why I often battle with false awakenings.

The more I practice exiting consciously the more I am able to experiment and go and do what I want to experience.

Often I find that I transcend time, I will meet my kids as when they are young when in reality they are all in their 20s

It is a very interesting issue and I look forward to your investigations into this area

Regards Mustardseed

[Kriztenzen]

RJA,

what I meant can be compared to growing up in normal physical life. As you get older and more experienced, you notice more details, more nuances and increase your understanding of this state of being.

Thats it.

I just wanted to clear that up, because there is nothing technical about it, and very little need for any terminology. It is simply a matter of progression.

[Selski]

Great topic RJA

Good observations from Kiwibonga.  

I've found that my identity goes along the scale of not really knowing what I'm doing to being ultra-aware of myself.  

For instance, during one OBE, I remember checking myself and asking what day it was, what was going to happen later on that day, what my address was and so on.  I even did a small numerical calculation and satisfied myself that I was "me" - fully.

On the other end of the scale, I have been floating around my room (RTZ) wondering what I'm doing and what I'm supposed to be doing.  

And I've also experienced everything in-between.

In addition, just recently I remembered during an OBE that breathing in to "take in" more energy (with the view that it would prolong the experience) was beneficial.  So I started to breathe in (obviously a high sense of awareness at this point) only to find that the very act of breathing in caused me to lose the experience and I found myself physical.

I seem to experience staggered awareness too.  By this I mean that I am fully coherent with who I am and what I am doing (having an OBE), but can't for the life of me remember what it was I wanted to do next time I had an OBE.  In these types, I end up floating around aimlessly.  

The "ultra-aware" state is evidently the best state, however when I do get this, it doesn't last for long and sometimes I have to work at keeping it.

I'm of the opinion that the more "aware" we are of the present moment in our physical lives, the more aware we will be during OBEs.  This is something that Novice mentioned recently and it struck a chord with me.

Sarah