This is probably a really stupid question, but what exactly is an out of body experience? I've been looking around the forum and I can't understand if an oobe takes place in the "real", physical world or if its all just in another dimension/frequency(?). Can you actually go to "real" places that you haven't been to and actually see real people doing things at the same time that you're having the experience?
Sorry again for the noob question; i just started reading about it all today.
It is possible to have real time projection, when you see places and actions that exist in the "real" world just as you see them.
As far as I know, ethereal projection takes place in this dimension, but altered (higher) state of vibrations, but astral projection - in other dimensions.
Am I right, professionals? :grin:
I can say for sure that an OBE can be in the physical and not on the astral -- been there, done that. :shock: I didn't have enough time to think about going far and have been unable to do it again so far, but time will tell...
So much of what we call OBE boils down to semantics -- how you define the term. Personally, I believe I frequently go OBE while dreaming. The main problem there is maintaining lucidity while OBE. Vilkate, you know what I mean -- you did the dream thing yourself! :cool:
I can't comment from personal experience on the astral plan because I am not sure I've been there yet.
An RTZ projection isn't actually the physical world/dimension, but the next closest area of consciousness. It's sort of like the underlying building blocks of the physical world, which is why you can fly and pass through walls etc., while still seeming to be in the physical.
How can you do a "ethereal projection" then?
You know, it...happens!... :roll:
Quote from: SharpeHow can you do a "ethereal projection" then?
I have no idea what that is, but I can say that all types of projections are the exact same thing, just a different area of consciousness.
QuoteHow can you do a "ethereal projection" then?
Supposedly the ethereal is the plane closest to the physical (arguably the same as a RTZ projection). Ghosts are on the ethereal plane, as the lore goes, so apparently it's possible to be visible in the physical.
It's also been suggested that weres, shape-shifting, etc. is actually a function of an etheric body - for example, you project ethereally and shift your ethereal form into that of a wolf or bear. Since the ethereal can influence the physical plane, such creatures could also be dangerous.
It sounds cool. I have no experience whatsoever to convince me it's real, though.
I think there's a better explanation then that, i do not believe ghosts are in the ethereal plane, because no one would want to visit it.
Nothing is in the ethereal plane, because it is not actually a plane, but a state of being...
When you are in the ethereal/etheric, your focus of consciousness is placed both in the astral and in the physical. If you have projected, your energy double is a blob of subtle energy that exists only in the topmost levels of the physical. This energy can be perceived fairly easily... Try to touch a person's body while in the real time zone ; I wouldn't be surprised if they had a new ghost story to tell the next day!
Ghosts ARE essentially in the etheric, since they are the physical manifestation of a deceased person. Not many ghosts are able to be seen or to affect the physical, those that do are driven by strong, low vibratory physical emotions.
The question of WHERE one is when out of body is a bit vague, because there's so many places/dimensions you can be in.. You are everywhere forever! From a physical standpoint, you only truly leave the body when you have a real time zone projection.
Dreams, lucid dreams, astral projections, and projections to higher planes are all out of body experiences, but they are not necessarily happening in any given place, they just are -- not tied to the physical illusion of time and space.
"Nothing is in the ethereal plane, because it is not actually a plane, but a state of being... "
Kiwibonga,
are you saying that the real time zone, is not an astralplane? Or have I misunderstood?
You understood correctly, the real time zone is not a plane. It is what Robert Bruce refers to when he talks about the environment you find yourself in when your consciousness is placed inside the projectable double.
It is located at the same dimensional level as the etheric, but the etheric is not a plane. There is the physical, then the astral, but nothing in between except an imaginary boundary.
Obviously, the real time zone is an astral plane, since it is not in the physical dimension.
It is a non-physical environment = astral plane.
It is not a non-physical environment, since it is both in the physical and the astral at the same time... The real time double can affect the physical.
Quote from: kiwibongaIt is not a non-physical environment, since it is both in the physical and the astral at the same time... The real time double can affect the physical.
How exactly? I'm sure there may be an indirect effect, but it's not like you can move physical objects from the RTZ. You may be able to percieve bits of the physical from the RTZ, but it's not the physical world. When you pass through a wall in an RTZ projection, you're not in physical space going through the actual wall, but through it's "etheric" counterpart.
You would be right in saying that it's not our etheric body that we use to "travel", because it's the counterpart to our physical body, and in order for it to move around, our physical body would have to be moving also. So the "double" becomes our projected consciousness.
In the sense you're speaking of though, the physical extends from F1 to F4. All astral planes make up the physical. It's our location of awareness that makes them seem as "planes" and separate.
(Anyone may feel free to elaborate or correct me. None of this is provable fact, obviously)
The idea is that the physical is a single point in the range of dimensions called the etheric.
The astral is separate from the physical, but the etheric does not exist as a plane proper. The etheric body is the glue between the physical and the astral, but this glue is not dimensionally located in a plane called the etheric -- the part we can perceive is "almost physical", while the part we can't perceive (the astral body proper) is in the astral.
The etheric double and the etheric body both function on a level that is high enough to be considered separate from physical matter, but it is very much still physical -- otherwise it would not be in a physical location or in time; all other bodies are devoid of time and space, although you are free to use the space/time illusion when you focus into them.
QuoteI'm sure there may be an indirect effect, but it's not like you can move physical objects from the RTZ
I disagree. The etheric body and real time (etheric) double are made of energy, they are much more dense than anything astral, and I am 100% sure that it is possible to affect physical objects while projected. Ghosts can do it without being physical, and so can we. I'll take telekinesis and energy work as examples of subtle energies affecting physical matter.
QuoteThe etheric double and the etheric body both function on a level that is high enough to be considered separate from physical matter, but it is very much still physical -- otherwise it would not be in a physical location or in time;
I think we might be getting into semantics now. I assumed the level of physical matter is the physical, outside of that is non-physical. Like the etheric double and RTZ. The atoms and molecules don't exist on that level, but it's the glue that binds them together in the physical. I view the astral as the ideas and creative source for the physical, and the etheric/RTZ the framework for physical matter.
This is where I was saying before, that all levels (f1 to f4 - franks model, f10 - f27 - moroe's model) are the total makeup of the physical. Normally we're only aware of one at a time, but we exist in all at once.
As far as being able to effect things in the physical, I've only heard stories... I sure as hell can't move anything. :lol:
Yeah, the problem is that there's so many different models... But I'm basing myself mainly on Robert Bruce's writings from Astral Dynamics, as well as Charles Leadbeater's analysis of the human energy body (it's available online but I can't find the link -- highly recommended for anyone who's looking to better understand the etheric plane and the different energies).
Can you go to spirit worlds, where people go when they die??And if so has any of you ever been there?