Who Am I?

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by Patty:

So then my thoughts on what is self, what am I, leads me to emotion. This meditation takes me away from emotion. Despite the fact that I value my emotion. I think that it is this. I think that in this focus, the emotions are not repressed or controlled, they simply are not present.
Patty

Yes my precious, yes.

quote:
I need a useful metaphor for this idea of emotions, self, and so on.

A useful one that comes in handy for me is to think of a water fountain. Not the kind you drink from but the ones that create a fancy display.

Thought (in Mystical terminology this energy I think has been called Prana or Chi; and other names like that) being a primary energy is the water, and the nozzle of the fountain is the mind. In other words, you could have many different nozzles that create many different fountain displays: but they are all powered from the same pool of water.

Each person's mind is connected to the same supply of thought. But where things differ (and often differs radically) is how each person uses their mind to manipulate this basic energy and forms what we commonly call an "individual character". Which is basically a person who has decided to modulate the incoming thought energy in much the same way over time.

Yours,
Frank

[Patty]

Hi Qui-Gon Jinn,

(We just saw "The Phantom Menace" two nights back. Love Star Wars.)

Can you elaborate? I'd love to hear some.... examples? from your life, times that acceptance  have affected you in some tangible and specific way, and what insights that has given you as to what 'self' is.

I often enjoy something distilled down to a guideline like "acceptance" but also sometimes a framework of examples, or the concept in action, gives me a better grip on the idea.  I'd love it if you could elaborate on your thoughts here.

Frank, thanks for the edit. Last night I didn't know quite what to make of the briefer response. I like the water fountain analogy and hope to get back with thoughts about it after I have mulled it over; of course there is no necessity to have an ongoing conversation unless you wish to as well.

And to both of you, I have been reading and surfing, looking for essays and that sort of thing on the concept of self, from different viewpoints (ex, last night I looked for such from a buddhist viewpoint; a quote I came across was something like:

quote:....an attitude towards life refined through ongoing mindful awareness. It may lead us to the realization that ultimately there is neither something nor nothing at the core of ourselves that we can put a finger on.

-"Buddhism without beliefs," Stephen Batchelor

The book goes on to describe such questions as "who am I?" (or "what am I?") as serving a powerful purpose in the form of a mystery. That is, the answer may be unrealizable, but the mystery can serve an important purpose.

I enjoy the mystery, the search for clues, and hope for more input on this thread!

(and in the interest of maintaining this on topic, it occurs to me that while out-of-body, a state that I occasionally enjoy but do not conclude much from in terms of continuation of consciousness, I find that my not-well-defined sense of 'who I am' is the same as while physical. Thus, if we are truly separate from our bodies, it may be that those things that we associate with the physical condition are actually a part of something more lasting. Example: While out-of-body, I still consider myself to have children, I still have the same interests, and the same sorts of things perturb me. This is in contrast to the non-OBE meditative state in which I feel I reach a place of detached calm, where normal daily concerns don't seem to affect me the same way.)

Patty

[Patty]

The suicide thread has me thinking about this.

First I'd like to mention again that I am currently holding the notion that all viewpoints in comunity can be perfect. Including the viewpoint that I may adopt in the future that this notion is ludicrous.

Anyway. Dave and I share some similar ideologies. I wonder how we both came to this. I know that I have come to my present, (always evolving) understanding because of the trauma of my child's death. I know Dave has lost a child, too.  I also know we both attribute our interest and success in projection, to the experience of losing a child. (maybe that sentence will put this post on-topic for this forum!)

So I wonder, am "I" the totality of my experiences? That idea has always sounded a little flat and empty to me. Surely there is a "me" that has been shaped by experience, but is not wholly defined by experience?

During meditation lately, I have found myself returning to an image that came to me after Rachel's death. The image was of a core of energy within me, that wasn't me. It sustained me, (sustains me) , but seems beyond me. I had thought of it as the divine giving me life.

I read some Jung a few days back in which he describes the 'self' as something separate from the ego. THe ego is an appendage of the self. When he went on to try to define self, which is hard, the description sounded very close to the image that I had during meditation.

This image, during meditation, allows me to drop fear, allows me to see the eternal beingness of existence (sorry for the jargony sound of that) .  It's just a different level of focus, separate from the worries of the world, and lately I have found it to act as an anchor for me.

So then my thoughts on what is self, what am I, leads me to emotion. This meditation takes me away from emotion. Despite the fact that I value my emotion. I think that it is this. I think that in this focus, the emotions are not repressed or controlled, they simply are not present.

This leads me to wonder if we are all really saying the same thing about emotions, from different viewpoints. I could not have the understanbding that I do were it not for the extreme emotions that I suffered seven years ago. How could I not value them, then? And indeed it was emotional distress last week that brought me back to this meditative image of a 'self' that is both in touch with the divine, and also free of emotion. But not in control of emotion----

It is as though the emotions control me (to some degree) until I find a way to allow them, from a place of calm ... something. Acceptance? it is sort of a buddhist thing, too - the impermanence of these states.

I also had the thought that if I were in the place that I was in some years ago, and may be again someday, my posts would be very angry indeed.  Is that 'me?' I have no idea.

I need a useful metaphor for this idea of emotions, self, and so on.

Warmly,

Patty