Obviously I'm careful who I tell, but I have let a few people know I'm 'into' all this. My girlfriend knows, and I told a couple of my closest friends last weekend. They were fascinated, and one of them was ever grateful to me for telling her what Robert Bruce says about breaking out of waking paralysis.
I've also told a couple of my closest friends on the Internet, and they're both seriously considering attempting to project. If we all make it, Huwie will be a happy bunny indeed! [:)]
re: talking about OBE's , different realities, etc.
I'd recommend that you don't bring it up in conversation with people unless there is a common interest (e.g. the book lying nearby) or they bring it into the conversation themselves.
Why ? Because people will think you are mad. Ok, maybe that's a bit strong, but your friends will get the impression that you are slightly eccentric, to say the least. Whilst you are talking about OBE's being real and travelling to other dimensions, all they are thinking is "big deal, he's dreaming".
I haven't discusses this with anyone who knows me, nor ever will. If I mentioned this at work I'd probably get an immediate drug test, HR review, and fired for instability (I checked, its in the employee handbook). Every job I've had is pretty uptight, concentrated on making money, and have discouraged personal discussions (lawsuits you know). Topics are generally safe and neutral - books you've read, movies you've seen, holiday plans, pets. It would be pretty hard to steer conversation towards OBE/AP.
The reason why most people adversely react to the subject is that its too sensational. This leads to the easy jokes and gross misunderstandings ('Have you seen Elvis on the Astral? hahah'). Anyone practicing it would indeed be labeled mad. Maybe correctly so. It begs the question from philosophy courses - 'A sane man is surrounded by a society of insane people. Is he sane or insane?'. Put another way, maybe the sighted man in the land of the blind will have to consider being blinded (The Country of the Blind by H. G. Wells).
This is why I like a nice anonymous place to discuss OBE/AP. Thanks RB for astralpulse.com!! Many thanks indeed!
I do not usually talk about such subjects with people I know unless I think they may be interested in such things as well. I have mentioned it to a few people, but they seemed uninterested in really talking about it.
Secret knowledge is sometimes best kept secret.
Most people that I talk to think it's a joke, some however believe in NDE's, etc. I talked with my christian parents and they don't believe me, think it's evil, etc...
I wouldn't recommend telling anyone unless they're a good non work related friend.
After having my first two OBE's over 5 years ago, I was so excited that I told my Born Again Christian parents. Bad idea.
They scolded me for dabbling in the works of the devil, and I soon learned to keep my mouth closed about my experiences with them.
I then mentioned it to my best friend, but for some reason, I found that he wasn't as excited about this revolutionary new discovery that I made. He was content to dismiss it as a vivid dream.
So other than you fine people on the Internet, most who know me personally have NO IDEA that I have these on a regular basis, or even that I wrote a computer program to help track these. Not even my wife knows about them!
However, the longer I continue down this road, the better I get at having them, and the less I care about what people think. I already told my brother about these experiences, and he accepted it well. After I tell my wife about them (which I still don't know WHEN that will happen), I think my conscious will be clear and I won't feel the need to tell anyone else unless they ask.
A very good question..
Like many, I am very reserved when it comes to these experiences. For one, metaphysics is an "out there" way of thinking. Scientists/Physicists don't accept it as reality since it can't be tangibly "proven" on paper. And of course, normal every day people with common sense and a lifetime of living in the physical, deny it as a truth because:
1.) They don't understand it
2.) They have never seen it or experienced it
3.) A common misconception that hippies or crazy people believe in it
4.) <Post anything else here, there is probably a lot>
I think the only people who know i'm REALLY "actively" persuing this is my wife. And i'm not entirely sure she knows just HOW MUCH. The books I read may give away the "interest" in it, but it doesn't really tell anybody that i'm actively persuing it at night. Practicing, meditating, opening my mind up to possibilities.
I'm lucky that my immediate family is very open to this kind of material. Especially my old man. But i'm really not sure "how far" that "openness" goes. The last thing I need is my family and friends thinking that i'm pushing these "other possibilities" a little bit "too far". But I believe there is a difference between being open to possibilities and actually looking for a truth and experimenting to determine if it's a real possibility.. instead of an unreal one.
Ego is a problem. You shouldn't need to tell people. Really.. why? What you are doing is for YOU. That's all you need. Why do others need to know? What's the point? Chances are they will just ridicule you, or think you're weird.. even joke about Elvis walking around in the Astral. And what's the point in trying to "prove" it's real? You know it's real.. you know what you have seen, felt, and experienced..
The way I see it, this is for me. Because I need this. My family and friends don't. It's not their path. (Unless they feel the same way I do) THEN it would be ok to discuss it further. However, I will share my thoughts and experiences with others if they are truly interested. If they just want to listen and take it in as knowledge. Or at least as a "possibility".. then I will gladly discuss it. But I will NOT, under any circumstances engage in a debate of any kind. We have all been in too many religous quarrels.. and they rarely do end in "positive" feelings.
Afterall, these experiences are spiritual. At least for me. And probably for most folks out there. But you can never be certain, because it's different for everybody. Some probably enjoy flying around... others do "questionable" things.. while others seek knowledge and answers spiritually, etc.
My wife is open to all this. But on the other hand.. she is nervous about it when I try and tell her about my experiences. For one, she is scared of it, and appears to be worried about me. Two, she doesn't understand it, and three, the combination of both one and two makes her think i'm probably a little nuts. (But aren't we all to some degree?) While the rest of my family would probably listen to what I have to say, I can't help wonder (seriously) if they think "some" things I discuss are fabricated or exaggerated. I don't like this stray thought in my head.. and it makes me realize that it's not important for me to discuss it because of everything I discussed above.
But anybody who is truly interested.. I will gladly sit down and talk with! The only hard part is, how do you know who these people are? Short of coming on the forums, it's probably very rare you bump in to somebody who is open minded (or even experienced) in all of this. But sometimes you never know!
All it takes is for somebody to truly show an interest and ask me questions about it. I wont mind! But you can guarentee I wont be running around shooting my mouth off. Plus, i'm working on this "ego" thing.. and ego can play a role in wanting "special attention".. which is self-destructive to your spiritual development. At least in my opinion.
I enjoyed reading this thread. Some pretty good views on this subject!
I have a few friends I'll talk to it about. One of them used to do it years ago but quit because he liked restful sleep. The other is my neighbor, a pretty serious drinker. Alchoholics are prolific OBE'ers and LD'ers.
I'll mention it kind of nonchalantly to anyone if I think they might be open to it. If so, I'll get more in depth. I actually want to find out which of my friends would be willing to put serious time into developing their skills.
Dragen,
I enjoyed your response to this thread. I agree with the philosophy of not going around telling people that you practice OBE's unless they want to know about them.
This is kinda why I haven't told my wife about my adventures. However, at least in my case, things are starting to come to a head where I have NO CHOICE but to tell her.
For one, I seem to "go to bed early" all the time. I usually tell her I'm just tired, but in reality, I am practicing my projection techniques.
Secondly, I will wake up in the middle of the night, and she will be snoring. However, since I haven't had any extra earplugs in a while, I just move into the guest room and spend the rest of the night there. While I certainly don't have a problem with this, I feel somewhat guilty that I'm keeping my wife in the dark as to WHY I am moving into the other room.
So as I said, in cases like mine, while I choose to keep this to myself, I think it could prove more destructive to my relationship with my wife because it looks like I am distancing myself from her.
I envy the fact that you've told your wife about your experiences. I've been struggling for five years regarding how to tell my wife these things, and up until now, I just have kept things quiet. I enjoy having this as my "little secret."
But another part of me says, "Jeff, now you KNOW that OBE's are possible, and that they give hope for life after death...so how would you feel if you died suddenly without ever telling your wife about these things? She would be left never knowing that you are OK and still alive!"
It's things like that which really tempt me to tell her. Grrrrrrr!
When I first started getting into stuff like this, everyone thought I was nuts, except one close friend. So I just let them think I out grew it like most of my other hobbies.
Hi Jeff!
You make a very good point. And you are right, it's tough telling somebody so close to you about something so ... well.. pick a word? Controversial? Crazy? Weird? Abnormal? Scary? Evil? ... at least, those are all the things I was afraid my wife would say...
But you know something, hiding it from your wife and telling her you're just tired, isn't exactly a good thing either. Remember, you are bottling up a lot of things, which saps a tremendous amount of energy. Cleaning your closet, for lack of better word, will not only make you feel a whole lot better and enhance your future projections, but your wife would hopefully understand you better; Why you go to bed early, why you read and type in strange forums so much, and possibly why your perspective on life has changed since you discovered your own path. No longer will you need to hide any of this from her.. and maybe, if she is open to it, you can tell her wonderful stories and lessons you have learned along the way. I don't know about you, but I have enough common sense to realize when somebody has gone through a life changing experience because of the way they describe it, the way they conclude their statements in a final truth of wisdom.. and more importantly, by the way they act; in the present & in the future.
And Jeff, what if your wife can't believe? Ok so what? You tried. She has two choices, accept you or not. It's not about whether or not she believes. It isn't your place (nor should it be) to make her believe you. But it IS your place (and it should be) to be honest with her. But something tells me, if you told her .. "Look, I believe in the afterlife. I found something for myself. I know my path. I'm no longer scared." It will hit right at home. To speak so passionately about something and to express your deepest beliefs, desires, and fears will make her realize just how important this is to you... one can't help wonder if maybe there really is something to all of this afterall?
I think this is the only person in the world that you SHOULD tell. You have a bond with this person. You are married to this person. You will (hopefully) spend the rest of your entire physical life with this person. You are obligated to be honest with this person.. and the cool part about being married is that you (should) be able to tell your wife anything. And if things don't go well when you tell her... well, you tried and you will no longer need to waste energy on baggage. You will be able to tell her, "I'm going to bed a little early to meditate." This is what I tell my wife... I don't say anything scary like, "I'm going to Astral Project in to the Astral Realm where my name is Belthazar and I fight evil!" <-- which I don't do that anyway, lol!
Just as people go to church on Sunday, read the bible, and rest on Sundays.. Meditating, Projection, Energy, all of it, is MY path. It's one in the same thing. It's just different.. very different. And some do BOTH! It's all about your own path. There isn't one true universal path to follow.
Your wife may very well do the same thing mine does. She doesn't like talking about it with me. She will let me talk.. but she is very reserved about it. I think maybe a part of her thinks i'm exaggerating a bit, or thinks i'm misinterpreting something and "making it more than it really is" kind of deal. But more than anything, she is just afraid. After I had spontaneous vibrations last night.. I told her what I experienced and how I felt this morning. She straight out told me she doesn't like talking about it because it makes her worried/afraid. And it's only because she doesn't understand it. It's the typical, "You will get attacked, hurt, or lost." mentality. And nothing I say will really convince her otherwise unless she educates herself. Which is the other problem, because 1.) she's not interested, and 2.) she's afraid to understand. But the good thing is, she knows why I wear ear plugs, why I go to bed early, why I quiet the house down at night, why I read my books and endless amounts of information on the internet, and why I read and post on the forums. And I never have to worry about hiding stuff from the person who is closest and dearest to me.
I apologize if this turned in to a big thread.. and if I got too preachy. But the good news is, it does apply to the subject of the thread! And I guess it's pretty personal.. but hey, I don't have anything to hide. I truly believe hiding things is bad for your health. You gotta face your demons, your fears... you'll find the room isn't so dark afterall.
I'm quite lucky in that I can discuss all of what I do with my wife. She has no interest in pursuing any metaphysical matters herself. As she says, she has little enough time to pursue all of the physical world hobbies she's interested in to take the time to pursue astral ones. Some would see this as dissapointing as she has had spontaneoue OBEs and kundalini awakenings while doing yoga, and she is a somewhat skilled telepath. But it's her choice.
I'm also able to talk about these things with my boss and his wife as they are both wiccans (she a coven elder). She is experienced with energy, magic and OBEs, and he's a frequent lucid dreamer.
Other people around me, I stay quiet. A few people notice my amethyst pendant and get into conversations with me, but I don't advertise the fact.
James.
Dragen/James,
Thanks to both of your contributions to this thread. I will further try and expound on some of my.....fears? I guess that would be the right word.
While I know that it's not my place (nor in my power) to MAKE my wife believe in my OBE experiences, nonetheless they are extremely important to ME. I will even go as far as to say they have forever changed (and continue to change) my life as I know it.
Now, with something THIS impactful, this important to my life, I'm afraid (?) that seeing my wife shrug her shoulders and not show interest in this sort of thing will only make me frustrated. After all, if something this monumental to my own spiritual being is shrugged off, then what does that tell me about HER spiritual being? Or her feelings for me?
Note: I don't doubt the love she has for me. I doubt the interest she has for something so meaningful to me, and my reaction to that.
In both of your cases, James and Dragen, you mention that your wives don't express an interest in this type of thing...at least not in the context that you do. I'm just unsure of how *I* would react if MY wife did the same thing, and this is my fear.
I wouldn't want to look at her and think, "Gosh, here is this girl who doesn't really give a second thought about experiencing the afterlife....something that could completely change her outlook on life....something which could brighten her outlook on things, etc."
How do you overlook this thing? Do you say within yourselves, "Well, that is HER decision, and she will come to know the truth in either this life or the next?" Do you ever think, "How could a person NOT want to look into these things?" Especially when that person is the one you are married to?
Man oh man, the issues I have in my head! Thanks for the advice, guys. This is a never ending, internal struggle in my head that I've been carrying with me for years.
Hi Jeff,
Man oh man, you ask some good tough questions. I sure wish I had all the answers for you, but all I can do is offer you my advice and personal experience. Though, you pose a valid concern, is it really that serious? That's what you need to ask yourself.
Let's flip the situation around for a second here. Think about something where you have absolutely NO interest in. For example, (in my situation) cooking. Cooking is boring. All the different spices, and "final touches" you must put on a meal before it's "perfect" for serving. Just what the hell is the difference between Nutmeg and Cloves.. and.. while a good cook may laugh and go "Idiot! That's simple!". I really have no clue how to cook, nor do I care. Nor will I ever care. Why? Because I have other interests.. it doesn't pertain to me.. my future, my personality, my interests.. it is not part of my "path" in life. I don't align with it.
Now let's say your wife really really enjoys cooking. This is the greatest thing in the world for her. She wants to talk with you about "many different preperations" she has in store! All the wonderful recipes she is thinking of making. She wants to tell you of special foods she has prepared in the past, and how they were made.
Would this interest you? Even if it's something your wife is so passionate about? Whatever you do, DO NOT make the comparison between that and "spiritual" .. you definitely do not want to determine what is "more important".. something spiritual or cooking, because both are equally important.. it's matter of the individual's perception. But even then, would you find yourself fascinated in the "way of the cooking"? Maybe it's incredibly boring to you. (I think it is) What would you do if she spun off on a lecture about food and cooking?
The point of all this is to put a spin on the importance of perception. Just because you hate cooking, doesn't mean you love your wife less, now does it? It's just an aspect in YOUR life that is unimportant. And while you may not see, or choose to see that with metaphysics, it's most likely one in the same. But I believe it IS important for you to listen to each other. No matter the differences. As painfully boring as it can be sometimes, you need to listen and learn.
quote:
While I know that it's not my place (nor in my power) to MAKE my wife believe in my OBE experiences, nonetheless they are extremely important to ME. I will even go as far as to say they have forever changed (and continue to change) my life as I know it.
You know that.. we know that... but does your wife know that? I think you need to make it very clear how important this is to you. Just how much you align with this way of life. Show her the software you have written. Show her how many people you have helped organize their experiences by using your software. Better yet... (i'm going on a limb here) offer her the opportunity to read through your journal. (If she's interested) Again, she doesn't have to believe you, but it's important that she understands you.
quote:
wouldn't want to look at her and think, "Gosh, here is this girl who doesn't really give a second thought about experiencing the afterlife....something that could completely change her outlook on life....something which could brighten her outlook on things, etc."
Remember what I was discussing above. Don't let yourself fall in to this trap. Honestly, ask yourself who would be the real one with the problem if this happened? Really look in to this for a second..
Maybe your wife doesn't give a second thought about experiencing the afterlife.. so what? What's wrong with that? You don't realize that this isn't important to her.. this isn't her path. Maybe you are forgetting that what she's really doing is living her life with you, in the present. Because that's important to her. (As it should be for you) Your wife could just as easily turn all of this around and say "Hey Jeff, maybe you really haven't given a second thought about experiencing the physical life with me NOW." Again, it's a matter of perception.
quote:
How do you overlook this thing? Do you say within yourselves, "Well, that is HER decision, and she will come to know the truth in either this life or the next?"
Well, it's simple. I don't choose to overlook it. I choose to accept it. My wife's "truth" is living now and trying to live a good physical life. She told me that, right to my face. And what did that to me? It made perfect sense. I can totally see somebody ridiculing me for not living my waking life minute by minute, and instead trying "too hard" to understand the after-life and myself spiritually. But for me, for you, for all of us on these forums, that is a path we choose because it feels right for us. We want to understand BOTH. And there is nothing wrong with that either.
quote:
Do you ever think, "How could a person NOT want to look into these things?" Especially when that person is the one you are married to?
I used to. I was mind-boggled to think somebody wouldn't WANT to know all of the answers. But i've come to realize that no matter how hard you try, and no matter how much time you spend in this lifetime trying to get those answers, you will never truly have all of them. And quite frankly, you probably wont have a small fraction of those answers. But for most of us, it's the desire to have them which keeps us going. But people like my wife know they wont have all the answers, and it's not as important to them. I've come to terms with this and I don't have a problem with it.
To be honest with you, I wouldn't be surprised if my wife started getting interested when she realized I was learning so much. I think in time, she will become more and more fascinated with my stories and personally gained wisdom. Maybe just enough to be interested in my own interests, but not actually try it. Or maybe she will still think it's boring. Either way, I will understand.
The only time you will truly have a problem is when your wife or friends cannot respect you for your beliefs. A violation of trust and respect is a horrible thing, and you will know it if it happens. If my wife said I was an "idiot for believing in these things" and that I "will never find what i'm looking for".. that's disrespect, and I wouldn't tolerate that. But my wife, friends, and family aren't like that. And I sincerely hope your wife wouldn't do that. And if you just read that and thought to yourself, "No way she would do that", then what are you afraid of?
Famous quote, "The only thing we have to fear is, fear itself." You have carried fear with you for years, because you're afraid. Maybe it's time you try and lift that burden and clear the air a little bit. If you aren't ready, you aren't ready. But it is a fear you have to deal with nonetheless, and i'm sure you have learned by now that fear HAS to be dealt with. You managed to practice every night to experience something unknown. You didn't even know what it really was, but you knew you had to train your body and mind to achieve it. You experience vibrations and sensations and see very strange things.. beings, places.. and the only way you did that is by overcoming fear. And probably the biggest obstacle of them all was overcoming your fear of learning your path and your own truth.
Telling your wife the truth about yourself is the easy part. The hard part is for you to accept the outcome.
My family are all mature and intelligent people. They are very open to my interests in this area, especially my mother. I could probably talk with either one of them about anything to do with metaphysics and we would get into a conversation or a debate about the meaning of life or past life theories, after life theories, and similar topics.
My friends on the other hand... the friends i have made off of the internet, the ones i've made at school etc. have absolutely no clue about what i'm doing. When i was first getting interested in these sorts of subjects i tried to gradually tell one of my closest friends, but he didn't seem to be interested. I think he would consider me some sort of "freak". I don't believe most of my friends are open-minded enough to accept what i'm doing. There are one or two that may be interested but i will not just come out with it. If they ever bring the subject up i may pipe up.
I don't need to tell anybody though. I don't think anybody else could really understand what i'm going through anyway. Besides, my family is there if i just want to talk to somebody about my experiences.
Tell everyone, and don't keep it a secret. Our first instinct is to hide it because of obvious social barriers. Screw it!!! The world needs to know the truth about human ability and nature!
Kozzi
When I first became really interested and began doing heavy research into the subject I told everyone that wanted to listen. I would talk about it a lot around my friends, but sometimes it got a little philosophical. Not everyone is interested, they certainly weren't. I don't discuss it with anyone anymore other then sometimes my mom, who is a very open minded person. Otherwise I keep my experiences to myself. Most people judge what they don't understand.
Hi Jeff,
I can only add a little to what Dragen has said, he put it very well.
Basically, don't be worried about it.
If you have no doubt of your wife's love for you then anything past that is of much less importance. Her love for you doesn't require her to be interested in all that you do, even if it is very important to you.
The fact that she has shown no interest in your practices and spiritual journey does not mean that she does not care that it is important to you. I do think you will find that she cares greatly about how you feel about it, and the fact that it brings happiness to you will be important to her, even if she doesn't wish to partake in any of it herself.
Sometimes my wife will come out and say she's not interested at all, and other times she'll have some input on the topic. For the most part she thinks we're all a pack of complete loonies (me definitely included there), but she respects the fact that these are my beliefs, and that I enjoy being a part of this spiritual way. As long as I'm happy, she's happy for me. I also like to compose music on my PC, and again, she has no interest in it, but she's happy that I enjoy it.
My wife spends a good deal of time knitting, doing jigsaw puzzles, sewing and other crafts. Except for the jigsaw puzzles, her hobbies bore me stiff. She knows it, but she doesn't expect me to be a part of it. This is one of these areas where a good healthy relationship allows for separate hobbies and interests. There will always be the things that you enjoy doing together, but it is just as important to allow each other time for individual pursuits.
Regards,
James.
When I recently ordered Astral Dynamics I told my mom that a book was coming in the mail so I also told her what is was about.
She said she had seen several things on tv about people with near death experiences and of someone how was being operated on and saw it all from above and could describe it precisely, which was prove enough for her to believe it, she just didn't know that you can consiously do it. But she isn't very interested in the subject and she doesn't ask me questions.
My fiance is reading the book too :) and he loves the subject, maybe someday we'll be projecting together :D
My best friend told me that she sometimes sees her body from above and can't do anything about it and she seems to sleep to others and they can't wake her up for like 3 minutes. So I told her that that could be some sort of OBE and we talked about it too.
So no negative reactions for me yet, but I am very carefull, I only speak to people that I know will understand me.
Not that it matters much, I think everyone allready thinks I'm crazy :P
James & Dragen,
Thank you both for your wonderful insight. I almost mentioned something to my wife last night, but she started talking about trivial "work" crap and I couldn't see myself leading the topic into an OBE discussion.
I just need the right opening. I thought to myself, "What should I say to get this out? Do I say, 'Hey honey, I have something to tell you' and then just blurt it out? Or do I do something more philosophical, like saying, 'Do you believe in the afterlife?'"
At this rate, I think I am just going to wait for a lull in a conversation, and just come out and say it. I'll let you all know when I do and how it goes, although there are no guarantees that I won't chicken out and keep my mouth closed for another 5 years!
Hi Jeff!
Don't rush yourself in to it. When the time comes, it will feel right. Maybe taking her to dinner, or spending some time with her where you have the ability to talk openly without distractions. I think it would be important for you to keep the philosophical "mumbo jumbo" in check, and instead tell her how you feel about things. You want to explain how you feel, and why you are acting a certain way. You don't want to teach her philosophical lessons, or deep metaphysics theory. All this will do is confuse her and it could possibly make her feel stupid, or even distracted, and she would think you've lost it. You want her to connect with your feelings, not your own knowledge/wisdom.
The way I envision you doing this, (or perhaps the way I would do it in your shoes) is take her out to dinner. Don't say why.. just take her out. Sometime during that, I would probably say, "Hey, you know how I leave the room at night sometimes, or I spend a lot of time on the computer, etc, etc" well continue.. let her know it has nothing to do with her.. but it's because you believe in something spiritually.
Do your very best to keep technical metaphysical terms out of this. If you must, describe to her how you meditate and induce spiritual seperation.. how you seek answers to your questions. Let her know how important this is to you. DON'T ask her questions.. you are trying to help her understand you. Not the other way around. There are a lot of problems with asking, "Do you believe in the afterlife." Because this changes the conversation drastically, in many ways. You want to tell her how much YOU believe in the afterlife.. how you found your path and connect with it on a very deep level. TELL her how much this means to you. And the most important part of the conversation..
Tell her why you kept this bottled up for so many years. Tell her you were afraid of what she would think.. or say.. or do.. You need to be straight with her. I think you will find, just being honest about your feelings (without holding back anything) will make things go rather well.
I really think this would go well. Just be confident and cautious with this.. don't just blurt it out and make it 'unnatural'. I think you'll know when the time is right.
But one thing is for sure Jeff, you don't want to keep this bottled up for 5 years. Or even another year. It's just not mentally and spiritually healthy.
I look forward to hearing how things go!
I´ve told some friends about that.But have to be close ones and with some feel for the stuff.Sometimes I feel like coming up with the theme in the middle of a dinner but ,you know, I´m not into preaching..People who is not at it is a bit annoying to talk about it.
The ones I told, I did for several reasons...To most of my girfriends, for instance, told about this rather hidden side of me. I felt close to them and I thought they should know.
Other times I bring up the theme just becouse I need to talk about it with someone...I wish I had OBE friends, I can´t see much spiritual orientated people around me lately and I just feel I´m gonna explode with all this stuff in my head. Then, I just pick someone I feel confident with and shoot the speech.Feels better later [;)]
About their reactions? Many just don´t get it (just another story..reality is reality, anything else is just not real..very logical), some others try really hard to get into understanding it,open their minds as much as they can,but can´t believe it...I guess I would do the same.
Jeff, maybe you could rent a video like "Vanilla Sky" or "Waking Life" and watch it together... Then, you'd have to talk about it. And, who knows, maybe she's been APing for years! [;)]
Tell one...tell them all. When all this obe stuff started happening to me I went to see lots of doctors, shrinks and even some sleep studies. It took almost a year before I could figure out what was happening. So the ones I loved pretty much new already as I was discovering for myself. My husband still thinks it is all just dreams, and thinks its stupid what I believe....but he always listens and supports me no matter what.
As far as people I'm not close too, I have no problem bringing it up sometimes. If they pass Judgement, it doesnt matter to me. I love to share my thoughts on it. I am the Customer Service Director at the largest car dealership in N.J. Ive even brought the subject up in a meeting that I was having with over 75 people. A salesperson was talking about a dream he had, and I brought it up that way. Yes, I am ballsey. I am very straight forward too. Some asked me questions, others just listened. I dont think anyone thought I was off my rocker though, I mean look what I do for a living. They know already I'm not all there. I guess thats why I never care, what people think. I always show my true colors, thats what makes me, Me.
I'm proud of that quality I have.
I also think all of you should be too!
Sure, maybe everyone has OBE's at night and they just dont remember....but you do. So thats special in itself, dont you think?????? I feel special. I think I was given these experiances for a reason. They HAVE CHANGED MY LIFE IN SO MANY WAYS.
Never worry what people think of you. Sharing makes me feel good.
Thats why I always do....
Rachael
Hey Rachael,
While I think it's great you do all of that, for some people.. usually, most people.. it effects them in a bad way. Our race is notoriously judgemental.. and that can cause people a great deal of stress, depression, and self-esteem problems.
You are a hard worker and got yourself in a GREAT position! But a lot of people aren't that fortunate, and even some of those who are, can still receive a backlash by telling people things they shouldn't be. If there is one thing I learned all these years, it's that so many people have secrets. And sometimes these secrets are feelings that they are embarrased about having.
For example, you go to work and tell a couple co-workers about these strange experiences. These co-workers act like they understand and may chuckle a little bit, but deep down they may actually be scared to be around you. Maybe their own beliefs are such, that Astral Projection is the work of witches and Satan. (That belief is more common than you realize) But out of respect for you.. (most) don't say anything about it. And in some cases.. they wont say anything about you to other co-workers because they are nervous about. (The ones who do open their mouths are gossipers.. and they are their own breed) But in any case.. it is bad for you.
Now let's say this news spreads up to the HR department and other managers. And job positions.. or should I say, opportunities open up.. for years, you will be turned down. You may never know why. But some managers doing the interview may feel threatened or insecure with your "blunt attitude" and even worse, your own beliefs.. since they are evil, or "weird".. perhaps they view you as an unstable person.
At any rate, I am aware this sounds like a paranoid post, but the fact of reality is this is how it can turn out. Especially in the office environment. And most DEFINITELY when gossip or rumors are spread. Your reputation is at stake, and it's important to keep it up professionally and ultimately financially.
That is why it's important to share this with people you trust and care about. Particularly those who are at least "somewhat" open to the possibilities. The world is full of saturated dogmatic views.. the majority of the population isn't ready for this level of thinking. Partly because they don't care, think it's nonesense, or evil based on their current belief structure. But a lot of that is changing today! Perhaps when there are more free-thinkers, or more accepting people, discussing this subject will be a lot easier in the future. But for now, it causes far too many problems in your life to just spout out information to anybody and everybody.
But again, it's different for every individual. If your path is telling everybody you meet about a new way of thinking... I say go git em! But i'm staying out of it. lol
quote:
Originally posted by Nagual
Jeff, maybe you could rent a video like "Vanilla Sky" or "Waking Life" and watch it together... Then, you'd have to talk about it. And, who knows, maybe she's been APing for years! [;)]
Hehe, well, my wife watches movies like that and goes, "I don't get it!" Then I try and explain and she says, "Too much information. My head is going to explode!"
Although......she DID like "What Dreams May Come," and out of all the movies I have ever seen, that one comes the closest to explaining OBE's in my opinion. Since this movie is on my Christmas list, I think I will watch it again with her, just so it can be fresh in her mind.
She also liked the movie "Ghost" and I think I can use that as a good example too. Thanks for the idea of using movies to help break the ice.
All my life I grew up in a situation where it was fine to talk about OBE's with my mother and her college friends. My mom would take me to "Silva Mind control" classes and now I naturally fall into trances without trying and sometimes at inappropriate times. I can't drive because of that.
When I entered the real world as a young adult I was slapped down by groups of friends for speaking to freely of those things. It never stopped me back then. Now that I am older I am more considerate of the people whom I talk with.I stay on safe subjects and try not to push my beliefs but sometimes I will mention things about my experiences with the astral world that has scared people off. In a forum called "Worlds End" I upset some people by speaking to freely about my experiences. This past year I find I bite my tongue more. Not everyone is ready to experience or know about OBE's.
I feel blessed that my husband does believe. He has encountered some of my astral friendlies.
Wow! I sure got everyone talking, didn't I? :) Here's a few more things I would like to say on the matter.
If you feel like telling someone about your astral experiences, I say go ahead and do so, freely. Regardless of what you think they may already believe or know. Those of us here who have had astral experiences KNOW they are real. They are NOT beliefs. since they are known facts to us, telling someone else about them should be no more unusual than talking about a trip to France. That person may not have been to France...does that mean you should not talk about France, for fear that they may think you are making it up, and are crazy? Hmmm...i think not.
All humans are Spirit anyways. You are not doing anything wrong by reminding others about who and what they are. Unconsciously, they already know this. You're simply reminding them by talking about it. The reason people think these things don't exist is because they have beliefs about what is real. Our beliefs are what get in the way of truth. Only knowing will allow us to go where we need to.
What is fact to us is perceived as beliefs from those who never experienced what we have. I have had religious people push their beliefs on me and they view their beliefs as facts. I don't enjoy having people push me to believe something that I have never experienced and so out of respect to others I don't push them to believe what I know as fact.
I was raised by a woman who misuses her psychic abilities to manipulate others. Including her own children. I think the reason why not everyone is ready to know about the astral worlds has to do with the fact there are people who would misuse it.
I agree that we should not push anyone to believe anything. This goes for religion, AP/OBE's, and anything else in life. All I am saying is that if you feel like talking about it with someone, I say go ahead and do it. If I say "I woke up outside of my physical body yesterday.", that does not mean I am pushing anyone to believe anything at all. That is no different than saying "Yesterday I had a bowl of Cap'n Crunch." Would saying that mean that I am trying to get that person to believe that I can truly eat, and that Cap'n Crunch cereal is real? No.
If I tell someone about my AP expeiences, and they blow it off as some fantasy or dilusion, I simply smile and say "OK." There is absolutely no point in arguing about if it is real or not. Only direct experiences can allow us to KNOW for sure. Otherwise, everything is simply based on BELIEFS.
For those of you that still want to bring AP up in a conversation, here is a fun way to do so:
Let's say you are at work, and your co-worker sais "So, what did you do on your day off?"
You can tell them, "Oh, you know, just the usual. I had an out of body experience, and hung out with some astral friends of mine."
Now, normally, they would probably think you are a nutcake. But if you say it casually, and not with an ego, you can have alittle fun.
If they ridicule you for it, simply say "What? You mean you DON'T have OBE's? Riiiight." <---(In a sarcastic tone)
You can turn the situation around completely by making it seem like THEY are the crazy ones, and you are simply talking about a normal experience.
I'll get flack for that one, I'm sure. But that's how I do things. I am a very blunt person, and I speak whatever is on my mind. If I am mad at someone, I make it extremely clear. If I have an opinion to express, I right there telling it away. But I would NEVER tell someone what to believe, or not believe.
I understand what you're saying and I think it's great you are blunt. I use to be more blunt and free about letting people know what I think but now I live in a small tight knit town full of Christians who poisoned my pets in the past and threaten to kill my wolf. Now that I'm a mom I have learned to be more modest about my experiences. Even still, this town gets spooked by certain things like my yard ornaments and our 1963 Cadillac ambulance (that the neighbors think is a hearse). This year I have had to home school my children since their teachers treat them poorly because their family doesn't fit in with the norm around here.
I wish I felt safe enough to be more blunt like you.
There are certain people that I have tried to talk to about these things that blow it off. My family is one of them, except for my brother. If I make an attempt, and they reject the experience, I do not pursue it further. (Unlike some people, such as religious fanatics that shove their religion down your throat.) If I were in your position, I would not feel like talking to your neighbors about it either. Some people just love using religion as a shield/barrier. You say you can OBE, it's the work of the devil to them. Hypnosis...devil, telepathy...devil. The list goes on an on. It's truly sad. However, I am very thankful and fortunate to belong to a group of friends who all either believe or know (through experience) that OBE/AP is a real phenomenon. A couple of them have had OBE's, and another had once been pulled under his bed by a pultergeist! (True story, according to him, whom I trust alot.) So, they are all familiar with non-physical realities, each in their own unique ways.
Being able to share these experiences with others helps us learn and grow from them. Robert Bruce has done an amazing thing by creating this forum. We can all come here and tell the most far-out tales and not be seen as a complete lunatic (by most people anyways.)
Between this forum and Astral Dynamics (the book), I have learned a great deal of information about energy development and OBE's. I thank everyone who participates in this forum also. I hope to be able to come here up until the day of my final OBE.
Hi all,
Very interesting views on this subject matter! But why do you insist on telling so many people about your experiences? This appears to be an extension of the human ego. Really, I would like to hear your views on why you believe it is important to tell a lot of people.
I'm not just talking about telling a close friend or some family members, but a few of mentioned telling their co-workers or whoever they come across. One thing I would like to point out is the ego and dogma.
I heard a few comments about this being the truth, and how you can't see why it hurts helping people understand about the afterlife. This, I believe is a spiritually destructive pattern, for yourself and others. Essentially what you are doing is pushing your beliefs on others, just as major religions do today. You start crossing that line where you believe in it for YOURSELF, to believing other people should be aware of this "truth" you found. This truth is unique to the individual, and should in no way be discussed with others unless asked in my opinion. This is a new age.. the Age of Aquarius is approaching.. free thinking, less dogmatic views, less judgemental idealistic ways, less war, spiritual development; evolution; revolution. Trying to impress your peers, or gain attention, or whatever reason is an extension of the ego.
Please help me understand WHY it's important for you to push this on people, and if not push it on people.. why is it important for you to discuss it with them? You know, and I know that a lot of them are probably very religous anyway. Catholics, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists... maybe even Atheists. What you are doing is essentially giving yourself a label.. why do you have to BE associated with anything? Do you want attention? Do you want others to believe you? Do you want others to believe in the same thing as you? Or are you angry that you feel trapped about discussing it and refuse to do supress it anymore?
In any of those cases, I see stagnation to spiritual development.
I am really perplexed by this issue. I know that I found something for myself. I read books on it, I experiment with it, I attempt projection to gain answers and understanding. I have found conclusive evidence for my being.. my all, that life after death exists.. and it's really just a beginning. I have no need, nor desire to discuss this with anybody else as it is completely unimportant to my purpose. Again, if somebody is truly interested in what I believe.. and are open to my experiences, then sure i'll discuss it with them. But I cannot for the life of me see why anybody would have the desire to tell the entire world. Because the minute you do that, you become a leader. You put yourself on a pedastal and talk about spirituality like you have all the answers.
For the most part, you probably do have all the answers. For yourself. But I staunchly stand by my belief that everybody has their own path and their own answers. They are connected with their very own universal truth, and there is no wrong answer. Just because they read the bible and practice dogmatic beliefs, doesn't mean they aren't connected to god in some way. And this is coming from somebody who has never been religous. It's taken me years of searching and understanding to learn and accept people for who they are and their beliefs. This has always and will continue to be a difficult thing to accomplish and follow.
Though, some of you probably don't view OBE's as a spiritual thing. I probably wont understand that myself, but if it's just a "cool experience" for you, then perhaps I wouldn't see anything wrong with trying to tell people about it.. other than making yourself look crazy!
Hi Jeff
Just a few thoughts. I am also married and for about 1 year did not tell her or anyone. I told a Christian Minister and he dismissed it as fantasy and told me he thought I was having a subconcious desire to be someone important and was making the whole thing up.
All though I have told my wife and she believes me and is mildly interested it is also becoming a bit of a contention in our relationship. It is as if she feels a bit sort of afraid that I will just "fly away" some day or go die in my sleep. It is a interesting observation that people who have OBEs also seem to get strenght and stamina spiritual as well as mental to endure. I say endure becourse allthough it is a wonderful experience it can at times be very intense. Others may not have the same strenght as they do not have to do the battle so to speak.
As your day so shall your strenght be
I think that if I was to re do it I would be much more gradual and careful how I relate and make sure I did not give her any worries about me. I had a keeper of the thresh hold experience early on wich was terrifying and I told her. Bad idea[;)].I think that was too much for her. I think it would be wise to proceed carefully and with love and wisdom. It is a hard burden to carry, when someone you love are engaged in activities you do not understand and have no power over, and it can make people very fearfull.
Honesty is of course the best policy but maybe a remark and let her ask questions and certainly making it a gradual thing , rather than, "Honey I just wanna tell you that I leave my body at night and fly around the city and ....I just thought I would let you know[;)].
All the best
Mustardseed
Hi Mustardseed,
Excellent point. Your situation is exactly like mine. My wife knows what i'm doing, and she also thinks i'm a very deep spiritual person. She also told me she believes in my experiences 100%. But she is afraid of what she doesn't understand.. and she worries about me.
Like you, I find if I say something wrong.. something which can be scary, etc.. she reacts weird to it. She would almost rather not know instead of feel worried about me. At one point I mentioned not discussing it with her anymore.. but she didn't want that either. She just wants me to be careful. And deep down, I think she is interested; curious to say the least.. I think she needs me to "ease" it in a bit at a time... like Mustardseed said.. don't just blurt out
"I left my body and a Negative psychic attacked me, so I retaliated and it ran off scared, so I followed it in to the sub planes, a form of hell, and I saw things trying to kill me, and then I saw a vision of the world exploding.. but then I went to a happy place with small frolicking bunnies. What do you think honey?"
[:O]
Man you guys are funny,
I'm not married so I don't have any stories about my wife, but I'll talk for a minute about my experinces with this subject. I've been pagan since I was fifteen years old. My dad is a Baptist minister and my mom is a typical ministers wife (the SUPER CHRISTIAN[B)] Needless to say I've been spritually commited to the metaphysical pratices for quite a while, and I've had the opportunity to share my beliefs with people quite often. In the case I must agree that it is often best to say nothing unless approached about it. Most pople either don't, won't or can't understand things form our mode of thinking and often times, trying to explain that you have the abiltiy to leave your body or move objects, or read thoughts and feelings or whatever, will lead to more than your capable of dealing with. Believe me there's nothing worse than being the only pagan in a house full of christians who think you worship satan.
On the other side of this issue. I've got a lagre cadre of pagan and pagan friendly folks around me at most times so it's very easy to talk about the subject when ever I feel the need to. Additonally, my brother is constently trying to have a better understanding what I belive in so I'm always talking to him about it as well. I think that's the goal for most people. Not so much to convert but to quell mistinterpratation. That's not such a bad thing, as long as your not trying to turn the brow beating back on those who would do the same to us because they just don't get where we're coming from. If people know what your doing and understand that it's not what they believe it to be then I belive that it's a good thing for everyone and it makes our lives a little easier.
...ok..I'm done now[:)]
No great mind has made revolutionary changes in social philosophy by not talking about his theories, beliefs, or experiences. OBE and LD are real objective experiences natural to human life. Talk about it! Don't be afraid. There will be a time when this is all normal, and we're much better at it, so let's get the word out. I'm telling everyone regardless of their sometimes apparent negative reception. I'm not losing cool points. :-)
Kozzi
There are pros and cons to openly discussing astral projection to just anyone. Parents have their children to consider. If you live in a community (like the one I live in) you have to consider how that town will treat your children. You don't want your children to suffer because of what you believe to be true.
I was raised different than most people. My mother was blunt about her beliefs in the places we lived. When I was 5 a woman tried to drown me because of my moms life style. I learned in my youth that not everyone is open-minded. I have always felt safer in the spirit world than I do with fellow humans.
There are times when it is good to speak freely about things you know. If you are single and only have yourself to worry about than there is no harm done in being blunt. If you are a parent than you have to be careful. You don't want to lose your children to close-minded government officials who think that stuff is loony. You don't want your neighbors to harass your children.
I speak freely about those things when I feel safe in the group of people that I am around but I'm not going to walk up to my neighbor and say, "Wow I sure had an awesome out of body experience this morning."
Dragen,
I have to say that I really like the comments you've been putting here. There's a lot of very good common sense and wisdom in your thoughts.
One of the things my wife and I do share in common is we are both computer nerds - I set up Unix servers for a living and she's an IT trainer. Right now we're in our study, I'm on the main PC and she's at the desk beside me with her laptop manipulating a picture in Photoshop. I told her of the response you posted :
quote:
Originally posted by Dragen
"I left my body and a Negative psychic attacked me, so I retaliated and it ran off scared, so I followed it in to the sub planes, a form of hell, and I saw things trying to kill me, and then I saw a vision of the world exploding.. but then I went to a happy place with small frolicking bunnies. What do you think honey?"
To this she wanted to reply -
"That's just great dear, you just stay there and make a cool drink. I'm going shopping to find a white coat. Now what was the number for Mental Health again?"
[:D]
James.
A picture is worth a thousand words. This one (http://www.despair.com/bitterness.html) sums up my feeling perfectly that OBE should be kept very private.
Don't worry, its kid and work safe.
quote:
Dragen,
I have to say that I really like the comments you've been putting here. There's a lot of very good common sense and wisdom in your thoughts.
Thanks for the kind words James! I'm just like everybody else, trying to find answers and understanding. I think i'm fortunate that I was able to think like this since I was a child. My parents never forced me to attend any kind of church. So I have learned a great deal by being "open" with others, myself, and possibilities.
It's funny how you mention your "nerd" status. My wife and I are also both computer nerds. I work in Information Systems for a manufacturing company and develop software/business logic for a large database. It's a great job! My wife doesn't work in I.T. professionally, but she loves computers (I taught her how to build her own too!) and she plays computer games. So it's a nice thing to have in common!
quote:
To this she wanted to reply -
"That's just great dear, you just stay there and make a cool drink. I'm going shopping to find a white coat. Now what was the number for Mental Health again?"
ROFL! Make sure she gets one that fits. Last time I was committed, I lost circulation to my head and made the problems worse. [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by Tolvor
A picture is worth a thousand words. This one (http://www.despair.com/bitterness.html) sums up my feeling perfectly that OBE should be kept very private.
Don't worry, its kid and work safe.
LOL thanks for that link I just happen to know the perfect forum to post it in. Have you ever heard of Despair in Neil Gaimans Sandman?
Well I hope you don't mind me stealing that link and posting it in http://neilgaimanboard.com/6/ubb.x?a=frm&s=733605825&f=588609765
"Worlds End."
haha, Waking Life is a bad butt movie. Definately gets you thinking. If you watch it while shrooming though, wow, that's something else.
Hi, I was having a pretty good talk about OBE' yesterday with a guy I know at work. It turns out he has OBE's over once a month, and doesn't always consciously attempt them. We got into the conversation by him seeing Astral Dynamics lying on a nearby shelf. Another guy there wanted to know how to have them, so the first guy was explaining meditation/relaxation methods to him.
So, what I am wondering is, do you people have the luxury of talking to real-life friends or relatives about this stuff? My friends are all into it, and I am finding more and more other people who have had experiences, or are intrigued by it. My family, however, would think it's just plain silly, and that it is all rubbish that I learned by listening to "too much Art Bell". (No such thing as too much Art Bell, btw. :) )
Your thoughts on this, please.
Best,
Mike