So I been going over many peoples OBE experiences here and elsewhere but even the most experienced projectors seem to have very short OBE's. Why is this? is there a reason people seem to only be able to be outside their physical body an average of 10 to 20 minutes? whats your longest time out? and how long did it actually feel like had passed also.
I've had one 45 minutes but generally I sling shot back and forth where I'll separate up to 5x in a row. I've heard it explained that you are more likely to download the memories/experiences if you have waking periods between OOBEs where otherwise with a long continuous one you might forget some of it. This makes sense to me.
I also think at some level we feel the need to check in with our physical bodies since we're conscious of being out and at first it's a bit disturbing to think there's no one minding the store.
Time is distorted when you project. 10 minutes in real life can feel like 2 hours sometimes while out-of-body.
But since the REM sleep state is required in order to start the OBE, there is a psychological limit in the duration of a cycle (usually around 10-15 minutes each).
I usually have them when my husband gets up in the morning so I know what time it is then and when I wake up so have a 'real time' measuring stick although I agree, usually 10-15 minutes is the norm.
Quote from: Jilt on May 25, 2011, 12:37:02
I've had one 45 minutes but generally I sling shot back and forth where I'll separate up to 5x in a row. I've heard it explained that you are more likely to download the memories/experiences if you have waking periods between OOBEs where otherwise with a long continuous one you might forget some of it. This makes sense to me.
I also think at some level we feel the need to check in with our physical bodies since we're conscious of being out and at first it's a bit disturbing to think there's no one minding the store.
This is a good question. Like Jilt I will have multiple sequential OBEs where I come back after each small episode and "touch base" as I call it. Then I re-project and I can either re-enter the last scene or start a completely new investigation. I would have said most of my OBEs are 5-10 min but if you allow for sequential events to string together as one OBE duration period the time period can really stretch out.
For me, sunrise or activity in the world around me, family, etc. can be a seriously limiting factor in OBE duration.
Because most people have the attention span of a gnat. ;)
You've gotta train your mind to remain focused if you want to stay out longer. This requires meditation... this requires mastering your own mind at all times.
Quote from: Xanth on May 25, 2011, 18:04:16
Because most people have the attention span of a gnat. ;)
You've gotta train your mind to remain focused if you want to stay out longer. This requires meditation... this requires mastering your own mind at all times.
Permission to speak freely Mr. Moderator, SIR?
Quote from: Rudolph on May 25, 2011, 18:10:54
Permission to speak freely Mr. Moderator, SIR?
Lol you're not going to get it ;P
Quote from: Xanth on May 25, 2011, 18:04:16
Because most people have the attention span of a gnat. ;)
You've gotta train your mind to remain focused if you want to stay out longer. This requires meditation... this requires mastering your own mind at all times.
I Kinda agree.. strengthen ones will power and you can stay out freely, another reason why when you're first starting off and you not staying out as long, is because your energy body isn't developed enough
I know a lot of people who have meditated for decades and they can't even project at all. And then some can project for a short while but only that.
Mind control can extend the length of projection into a very tiny slice of the Inner Realms.
Those with the courage and wherewithal to venture into mostly uncharted waters may find an extended stay to be difficult to maintain. (... regardless of meditation ability or mental discipline)
If you meditate correctly then you will have control of your mind. I think a lot of people who meditate don't really focus, they are fake meditating for decades.
My theory is that it has to do with natural sleep rhythms. Don't sleep circles go around 30 minutes, well then if your not actually sleeping maybe the body wakes you up instead of going into your next deeper cycle or whatever.
Quote from: Lexy on May 25, 2011, 18:53:27
If you meditate correctly then you will have control of your mind. I think a lot of people who meditate don't really focus, they are fake meditating for decades.
Hmmm. Perhaps. Lexy, How many people do you know have been "fake meditating for decades"?
(but don't get me wrong... I think I know what you mean... but really I am not sure how one would go about making such a determination... though, I strongly suspect one individual I know would fit the description....)
:wink:
Imagine your physical body is a refrigerator and your waking consciousness is a giant magnet. How do you separate the two? Direct enough energy into separation that it overcomes the energy creating the natural attraction... a feat in itself. Now the magnet weighs 50 pounds and you're going to get tired eventually. Pretty soon your energy depletes and the energy creating the attraction wins out... the magnet snaps back to the refrigerator. With increasing focus your source to sustain energy expands, you can hold the magnet away from the fridge for longer.
Yes, I like the magnet analogy - it takes real effort not to lose consciousness, to start normal dreaming or wake up. For some reason when I get to F3 this gets easier for me because I don't have as much dream interference and everything is more stable and vivid.
As far as meditation, the king of meditation Ken Wilber wrote a book "One Taste" where he describes his sleep as being conscious or lucid dreaming all night. During the non-REM periods he has what the Tibetans call "the clear light of bliss" which I think is similar to what we call our 3D black world. He and other monks who've mastered this likely can because they've trained their minds over time (he says 20 years).
Here's a youTube clip of Ken's brain waves when he meditates and how he can pretty much flatline everything them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFFMtq5g8N4
Quote from: Jilt on May 25, 2011, 20:38:02As far as meditation, the king of meditation Ken Wilber wrote a book "One Taste" where he describes his sleep as being conscious or lucid dreaming all night. During the non-REM periods he has what the Tibetans call "the clear light of bliss" which I think is similar to what we call our 3D black world. He and other monks who've mastered this likely can because they've trained their minds over time (he says 20 years).
I don't know if I'd want to be aware all night lol, but that's an interesting concept... what if dreamless sleep is just experiencing the 3D blackness with reduced consciousness?
Yes, I think unconsciousness has its benefits so wouldn't necessarily want to be conscious all night, however, it would be nice to have the option.
Some of my most profound experiences have come from what has happened in the 3D black world and I think it's because my dreaming/REM mind is in neutral and I'm able to get clearer images and audibles from my higher self/guides that would otherwise be polluted or mis-interpreted by my dreaming, distracted mind.
Esther Hicks recently had a youtube clip from her "Dreams" CD that said people who have OOBEs have learned to sleep without resistant thought (which is the same as being in a true meditative witnessing state) so I think there's a connection between the two for sure.
QuoteI also think at some level we feel the need to check in with our physical bodies since we're conscious of being out and at first it's a bit disturbing to think there's no one minding the store.
I like that! :-D
QuoteBut since the REM sleep state is required in order to start the OBE,
@Lightning, Not sure if this is correct, can anyone verify this? As an OOBE can be started from awake state, and from memory I have had OOBE from a non-dream period, but couldn't be certain of this, cos I may have forgotten all dreams at that time.
I agree with most of the posts, the average is about 10 minutes, and could be from physical reasons, uncomfortable limbs, breathing, local noises. Although I think its for the same reason why some OOBE are dim, heavy, and slow moving is lack of 'psychic energy' from shallow meditation techniques of short times, cos some of us are busy people. :-D
Cheers, good topic ! :-)
Quote from: djed on May 26, 2011, 01:20:40
@Lightning, Not sure if this is correct, can anyone verify this?
That's what I gather from authors and people like us. REM sleep is where dreams happen and many people use LD to project. The other popular methods all include accessing REM sleep while remaining aware. Also, REM sleep is the only sleeping stage where the activity of the brain's neurons are quite similar to that during waking hours. That's why it's called paradoxical sleep.
Projecting outside of REM sleep could be possible. But I do think there is a relation in how the average duration of the OBE (10 mins) is the same exact average duration of a single REM sleep cycle (though the latter can also supposedly last up to more than 1 hour).
@Lightning
QuoteThat's what I gather from authors and people like us. REM sleep is where dreams happen and many people use LD to project. The other popular methods all include accessing REM sleep while remaining aware. Also, REM sleep is the only sleeping stage where the activity of the brain's neurons are quite similar to that during waking hours. That's why it's called paradoxical sleep.
When we 'Wake Induce' successfully on a regular basis, we have no idea if it was a REM cycle or a non-REM cycle we have exited into, because we were awake! lol :-D
So all those people who are saying OOBs are in REM cycle are in error. Says the 3 star poster! :-D
Cheers djed :-D
Quote from: Astral316 on May 25, 2011, 20:06:37
Imagine your physical body is a refrigerator and your waking consciousness is a giant magnet. How do you separate the two? Direct enough energy into separation that it overcomes the energy creating the natural attraction... a feat in itself. Now the magnet weighs 50 pounds and you're going to get tired eventually. Pretty soon your energy depletes and the energy creating the attraction wins out... the magnet snaps back to the refrigerator. With increasing focus your source to sustain energy expands, you can hold the magnet away from the fridge for longer.
makes perfect sense. In fact I can relate completely. After an OBE, I find that I can slip in and out of them starting again and again, but they never actually take. It's like I am completely drained. I feel really wiped sometimes after having the experience. I guess it's just training yourself to get used to the process.
Quote from: djed on May 30, 2011, 17:04:37
@Lightning
When we 'Wake Induce' successfully on a regular basis, we have no idea if it was a REM cycle or a non-REM cycle we have exited into, because we were awake! lol :-D
The funny thing is that you can induce REM sleep easily with deep relaxation during the day if you had enough rest already (non-REM sleep). And during that state, it feels just like being awake (unlike deep sleep).
Plus I have to say, lately, after 3 more OBE's, I'm beginning to think it's all just lucid dreaming, whether you call it AP or OBE. We're all just remaining aware during REM sleep.
This still doesn't take away the spiritual quality of the experience. It can be used to know yourself in a very profound way, face your fears and actively cleanse your subconscious. As for contacting people in the real world/other dimensions/planes... well, let's just say I find it hard to believe (at the moment).
@ Lightening, To induce OOBE from the wakened state we don't go to sleep, we either just go into Deep Trance, no dreams, still awake, or we phase directly into Astral, no dreams, body still awake. That's the beauty of Wake induce, we get dream-free experience.
QuoteAs for contacting people in the real world/other dimensions/planes... well, let's just say I find it hard to believe (at the moment).
When you do eventually make a solid contact with another person in the non=physical dimension, its easier to believe, but I know what you mean, its easier just to disbelieve and to say 'its all in the mind' but to me that doesn't explain the experiences I have had over many years.
Cheers djed :wink:
Quote from: djed on June 06, 2011, 01:36:30
@ Lightening, To induce OOBE from the wakened state we don't go to sleep, we either just go into Deep Trance, no dreams, still awake, or we phase directly into Astral, no dreams, body still awake. That's the beauty of Wake induce, we get dream-free experience.
Oh, I see what you mean now :-D
You're not lying down to induce the trance. Please share your technique! I haven't tried projecting like that. Ryan told me it's the type of projection everyone should be striving to achieve, and I think he's right. I'd like to learn a specific technique that works for that, other than just meditation (which I will continue to practice anyway of course).
Quote from: djed on June 06, 2011, 01:36:30
When you do eventually make a solid contact with another person in the non=physical dimension, its easier to believe, but I know what you mean, its easier just to disbelieve and to say 'its all in the mind' but to me that doesn't explain the experiences I have had over many years.
Yeah, personal experience is needed in order to judge this kind of thing. For me, everything has felt extremely real there, even touching other people. But at the same time, I can modify everything and it still feels real, so yeah... I will of course keep investigating, and I'd love if you could share your technique for wake inducing :-D
QuoteI'd love if you could share your technique for wake inducing
@Lighting.
My method of getting into trance was developed from R.Bruce/B.Mercer's 90 day course, with a combination of energy raising, chakra stimulation, rhythmic breathing and several exit- visualizations (of which the climbing-rope seems to be the most popular) You can sit in a chair or lie down to do trance meditation. If this sounds a bit too complicated , which it is! Lol :-D , maybe you should try Phasing.
To learn how to Phase I would encourage anyone to read online or download Xanth's Phasing primer which you will find here http://unlimitedbounderies.ca/xanths-phasing-primer/
He first gives an explanation of what phasing is and then starts you off with a couple of exercises.
Good luck, djed
Quote from: djed on June 06, 2011, 16:49:02
@Lighting.
My method of getting into trance was developed from R.Bruce/B.Mercer's 90 day course, with a combination of energy raising, chakra stimulation, rhythmic breathing and several exit- visualizations (of which the climbing-rope seems to be the most popular) You can sit in a chair or lie down to do trance meditation.
Yeah, I'm very familiar with Bruce's work. I first found out about him 6 years ago when I was only semi-interested in OBE's. I also have the astral dynamics workbook course you're talking about (excel file). I haven't tried any of his energy raising techniques, but I can already achieve the conscious exit he describes.
Quote from: djed on June 06, 2011, 16:49:02
To learn how to Phase I would encourage anyone to read online or download Xanth's Phasing primer which you will find here http://unlimitedbounderies.ca/xanths-phasing-primer/
He first gives an explanation of what phasing is and then starts you off with a couple of exercises.
Good luck, djed
I will try phasing just to see how it differs from the normal type of projection I use.
My aim, however, is to be able to perform the exit (without having to lie down) through meditation, with the clearest possible awareness, even while remaining close to my physical body in the RTZ, and to be able to prolong the experience for as long as needed. Now... that's gonna take some serious effort :-D
But even if I'm never able to accomplish that, I will keep meditating.
Good luck to you too, man.
Quote from: Lightning on June 06, 2011, 20:28:04
I will try phasing just to see how it differs from the normal type of projection I use.
I'd also suggest Franks Phasing Resource: http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html :)
Quote from: Xanth on June 07, 2011, 09:33:25
I'd also suggest Franks Phasing Resource: http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html :)
Cool, thanks :-)
What has happened to me before is that I successfully exit, but lose focus after I exit and can't remember anything from my OBE. Or I only remember small parts of my OBE. Most people just don't have the attention span to go more than 20-30 minutes.
If you can get to 20-30 minutes, that's pretty impressive in itself (I've gone 45 minutes but that's rare).
This morning I was lying on my side and exited 3x in a row but I felt like I wasn't getting enough air and I heard a voice say "breathe!" so I breathed deeper but still woke up too soon so I turned to lie on my back (my usual position) where I exited and had a much longer OOBE. This has prompted me to believe that people may have more luck on their back because they're able to breathe more deeply/generate more energy to stay out.
Currently....
For LDs I tend to remain for between a few seconds to what seems like 3-4 hours and can easily re-enter after awakening.
For what I consider APs I'm able to go for a few seconds to (what seems for) many hours and cannot re-enter easily upon awakening.
For what I consider OBEs, I'm there for a short time - seconds to many minutes.
As far as lying on my side, back or belly, that doesn't seem to effect anything for me.